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This article's final two paragraphs, related to bars and nightlife in the University District, are highly opinionated and inflamatory. The mistake is made wherein a young person in a bar who is white, has a conservative haircut, and is dressed well but non-trendily in some sort of vague supposed "frat boy" outfit, is assumed to be a frat boy. The vast minority of students who live in the University District area are affiliated with the Greek system of UW, and so the vast minority of young people seen on the streets or at the various nightlife spots are frat/sorority.
As a resident of the U-district for many years, and a former U-district bar worker for many years, I feel that I can say with some certainty that the later portion of this article greatly misrepresents the neighborhood, and as well is in danger of insulting a particluar group that the article generalizes. (Oct 2, 2005) ( 67.168.99.182 21:34, 2 October 2005 (UTC)])
I have issues with some of the other content as well. I lived in the U-District for a few years, and never once had change "demanded" rather than asked of me. If this is said to be "common", I think some sourcing is in order, or at least a few Wikipedians should come forward and vouch for it. -- Soultaco 22:11, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
This entire discussion is very old and the U District has changed completely in character with new urban high rises and a change in demographics. I cleaned up the article to remove all kinds of racist and classist language and references to "street crime" and things like that. The article now reads in a more neutral tone which describes the local area's function and character. Ajohns90 ( talk) 10:50, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
Are there some sources to back the reference to party crasher gun violence? It seems somewhat at odds with my experiences in the neighborhood on weekends. It might want some language to point out that such nonsense is rare (that or I'm just lucky/sheltered in my U. District experiences). w?c 03:16, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
By the way, thank you for really fleshing this article out, GoDot. -- Lukobe 05:10, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Summary: +, cit, so cl, rephrased; see Talk. MoS
Explication: See
Talk:Seattle, Citing sources.
Neighborhood names and boundaries are nebulous. See http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~public/about.htm in the References section.
Suggest focus on particular, relatively unique people, places, events that characterize or define, rather than listing of, say, well-known franchise outlets per se. As a distinctive, signature architectural work, the Meany Hotel is widely recognized. "Best Western University Tower" looks like product placement.
"Six theatres": Grand Illusion, Metro, Neptune, Seven Gables, University, and Varsity.
WP:MoS (
Wikipedia:Manual of Style) recommends not linking
year unless such is specifically relevant to the article.
loitering page DNE. [Later fixed.]
The possessive form is generally conceptually awkward for inanimate objects, and so should be avoided unless some specific objective or prose structure is being served.
"and designation as" can be preferable to "and the U-District's designation as" because the U-District is an inanimate, somewhat nebulous abstraction that does not in itself possess, nor, in this case, does the designation apply to more than a specific demarcation within the area--further detail that is of insufficient importance to include in the 'pedia entry. Therefore, the former construction is also more accurate.
Similarly, "and
Pioneer Square Downtown)" helps denote that the alcohol problem there is a Downtown problem, not exactly corresponding to the Pioneer Square neighborhood.
Alcohol Impact Area is not accurately congruent with the District or The Ave.
"Due to the size of the UW Greek system" is now dwarfed by the student body as a whole. The Greek system at the UW (though prominent in media, which favors the sensational) has been mny decades in gradual decline relative to the burgeoning student population. That satellite campuses have been developed is testimony of that, as well as the RPZ effectively surrounding the UW main campus, to discourage car commuter students. Even local on- and off-campus housing greatly exceeds the populations of fraternity and sorority housing.
{{ Citation needed}} noted where needed to distinguish from citation following.
See "Style" section in
Talk:Seattle, Citing sources.
"Include the punctuation mark inside the quotation marks only if the sense of the punctuation mark is part of the quotation" (
WP:MoS#Quotation marks).
Note re. Street layout of Seattle provides references for accuracy. Redundancy may be reduced.
-- GoDot 07:11, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
As a distinctive, signature architectural work, the Meany Hotel is widely recognized. "Best Western University Tower" looks like product placement.
Does it contribute significantly to the purpose of the article? Which of the names is most recognized and best describes with respect to the purpose of the article? Does Wikipedia realize revenue from the product placement? If not, what is the obligation to use it?
AFAIK, Wikipedia does not do advertising, and this exemplifies an unnecessary fudge, appropriate only in an article about the Best Western company. If Wikipedia advertises, it should choose to do so by open decision of its board, and should not do so beforehand. -- GoDot 05:32, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Summary: fmt ref name, + ft native, librarians, + cite web, + link Shenk, + ft so congruent wrt sources; see Talk
Explication: Format <ref name=Dorpat>, etc.; add short full text ~Dkhw’Duw’Absh, librarians 1920s, add template cite web, add link in reference Shenk, add short full text so content is congruent with respect to sources; see Discussion, which refers to this paragraph. --
GoDot
07:22, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Accuracy is a goal.
"[O]n the east by the Burke-Gilman Trail and 25th Avenue NE," is less accurate in that the two are parallel, therefore logically "and" doesn't apply here. Further, contiguous UW facilities are sited betweeen them, and by definition these would be in the U District. More accurately, "on the north by NE Ravenna Boulevard and NE 45th Street," is per cited reference map. "[I]s known throughout the city", since asking such as any bus driver how to get there will be recognized. ("U Village" is similarly recognized by anyone who knows the prominent city places.)
"[K]nown as 'The Avenue' or ' The Ave' should be denoted since it is an internal link to an integral part of the neighborhood.
"One-way pair" makes clear. That they are a pair is not necessarily obvious to anyone who doesn't already know. One-way streets are not necessarily immediately adjacent. Which goes which way is less essential since the pair conforms to the drive-on-the-right-side-of-the-road convention. That they are not so well-known is demonstrated by drivers occasionally going the wrong way for blocks.
More accurately, only part of 15th Avenue is a principal arterial.
"The sentence "are its principal" contains a redundancy; most everything in the article is about the neighborhood.
That the Street Fair is indigenous and first of its kind in itself displays the character of the neighborhood. It is particular, so therefore a proper noun. "[F]ounded in the college culture of 1968 is one of the most telling aspects of the development of the Experimental College--and the context for the creation of the Street Fair. Note the link to that particular year. That the Blue Moon is "an unofficial landmark" is integral with what it is, and emblematic of an aspect of the neighborhood. It didn't win historical landmark status from the Downtown-dominated City Council in part because it is blue-collar--and avowedly anti-fudd. That Scarecrow is locally-owned further characterizes the neighborhood, in the same way that the Saturday Farmers' Market is the first of its kind and the most popular in the city. That the Meany Hotel has a corportate name is irrelevant to its archictectural and neighborhood significance. "The Meany Hotel" is widely recognized and as such what significance does the corporate name contribute to the purpose of the article? The name is itself only a product placement, and as such would not qualify for Wikipedia:Neutral point of view.
What does the modifier in "39,250-strong" contribute to the purpose of the article?
A descriptive sentence containing
Street layout of Seattle is a useful link that is particularly relevant to content of metro neighborhoods articles, since such info is of particular interest to anyone wishing to navigate a city. Its codification has been a big deal in Seattle public works (cf. Phelps, Samson). The layout patterns of New York are famous. As such it is also a distinctive aspect of community character, demonstrably so with respect to that of different cultures.
After the initial paragraph, "NE" is redundant; they're all NE around here. People don't much use the compass designations within a neighborhood (unless disambiguation is required). The link provides any further elaboration desired.
-- GoDot 05:32, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Do we really want to include "East Campus" as part of the U-District? Does the U-District really extend all the way to Surber Drive in Laurelhurst? -- Lukobe 05:10, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
It seems to me that this article is getting a little out of hand. The references and bibliography section are longer than the article and seem to contain a bunch of subcutaneous drile. Anyways, although this article has gone through a substantial clean-up, i really think more than the surface needs to be cleaned up.-- Gephart 13:03, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Many of the references seem to be nonstandard; I can make no sense of "Dorpat" as a citation. Many of the cited texts seem to confuse in text citation (author's last name) with a full citation. Some cleanup is required, ideally by someone who knows what the citations mean. --
TeaDrinker
10:07, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
This article is a mix of citation styles, with some named refs, and then inline refs, resulting in repeated references to the same thing, and in other cases, references being listed in both reference sections for the same citation. Can someone more familiar with reference styling fix this? SchmuckyTheCat ( talk)
I removed a bunch of old junk references that didn't point to anything in the article, and transitioned most of the refs over to inline refs. Didn't get it 100%, but it's much better now. -- Ajohns90 ( talk) 10:52, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
I thought there was an article on Street Fair already? I can't find a link to it here, so I'll start an article.
As a separate matter, because of the citation style problem above, I can't quickly lookup the reference to say it began in 1970. The first Street Fair was in 1969. I'll try and do some fixup here after starting and referencing an actual article. SchmuckyTheCat ( talk)
Bruce Lee had his martial arts studio in the U-district. I'd like to find some references to give a passing mention of this. Any ideas of where to look? -- Kraftlos ( Talk | Contrib) 06:17, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
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This article's final two paragraphs, related to bars and nightlife in the University District, are highly opinionated and inflamatory. The mistake is made wherein a young person in a bar who is white, has a conservative haircut, and is dressed well but non-trendily in some sort of vague supposed "frat boy" outfit, is assumed to be a frat boy. The vast minority of students who live in the University District area are affiliated with the Greek system of UW, and so the vast minority of young people seen on the streets or at the various nightlife spots are frat/sorority.
As a resident of the U-district for many years, and a former U-district bar worker for many years, I feel that I can say with some certainty that the later portion of this article greatly misrepresents the neighborhood, and as well is in danger of insulting a particluar group that the article generalizes. (Oct 2, 2005) ( 67.168.99.182 21:34, 2 October 2005 (UTC)])
I have issues with some of the other content as well. I lived in the U-District for a few years, and never once had change "demanded" rather than asked of me. If this is said to be "common", I think some sourcing is in order, or at least a few Wikipedians should come forward and vouch for it. -- Soultaco 22:11, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
This entire discussion is very old and the U District has changed completely in character with new urban high rises and a change in demographics. I cleaned up the article to remove all kinds of racist and classist language and references to "street crime" and things like that. The article now reads in a more neutral tone which describes the local area's function and character. Ajohns90 ( talk) 10:50, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
Are there some sources to back the reference to party crasher gun violence? It seems somewhat at odds with my experiences in the neighborhood on weekends. It might want some language to point out that such nonsense is rare (that or I'm just lucky/sheltered in my U. District experiences). w?c 03:16, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
By the way, thank you for really fleshing this article out, GoDot. -- Lukobe 05:10, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Summary: +, cit, so cl, rephrased; see Talk. MoS
Explication: See
Talk:Seattle, Citing sources.
Neighborhood names and boundaries are nebulous. See http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~public/about.htm in the References section.
Suggest focus on particular, relatively unique people, places, events that characterize or define, rather than listing of, say, well-known franchise outlets per se. As a distinctive, signature architectural work, the Meany Hotel is widely recognized. "Best Western University Tower" looks like product placement.
"Six theatres": Grand Illusion, Metro, Neptune, Seven Gables, University, and Varsity.
WP:MoS (
Wikipedia:Manual of Style) recommends not linking
year unless such is specifically relevant to the article.
loitering page DNE. [Later fixed.]
The possessive form is generally conceptually awkward for inanimate objects, and so should be avoided unless some specific objective or prose structure is being served.
"and designation as" can be preferable to "and the U-District's designation as" because the U-District is an inanimate, somewhat nebulous abstraction that does not in itself possess, nor, in this case, does the designation apply to more than a specific demarcation within the area--further detail that is of insufficient importance to include in the 'pedia entry. Therefore, the former construction is also more accurate.
Similarly, "and
Pioneer Square Downtown)" helps denote that the alcohol problem there is a Downtown problem, not exactly corresponding to the Pioneer Square neighborhood.
Alcohol Impact Area is not accurately congruent with the District or The Ave.
"Due to the size of the UW Greek system" is now dwarfed by the student body as a whole. The Greek system at the UW (though prominent in media, which favors the sensational) has been mny decades in gradual decline relative to the burgeoning student population. That satellite campuses have been developed is testimony of that, as well as the RPZ effectively surrounding the UW main campus, to discourage car commuter students. Even local on- and off-campus housing greatly exceeds the populations of fraternity and sorority housing.
{{ Citation needed}} noted where needed to distinguish from citation following.
See "Style" section in
Talk:Seattle, Citing sources.
"Include the punctuation mark inside the quotation marks only if the sense of the punctuation mark is part of the quotation" (
WP:MoS#Quotation marks).
Note re. Street layout of Seattle provides references for accuracy. Redundancy may be reduced.
-- GoDot 07:11, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
As a distinctive, signature architectural work, the Meany Hotel is widely recognized. "Best Western University Tower" looks like product placement.
Does it contribute significantly to the purpose of the article? Which of the names is most recognized and best describes with respect to the purpose of the article? Does Wikipedia realize revenue from the product placement? If not, what is the obligation to use it?
AFAIK, Wikipedia does not do advertising, and this exemplifies an unnecessary fudge, appropriate only in an article about the Best Western company. If Wikipedia advertises, it should choose to do so by open decision of its board, and should not do so beforehand. -- GoDot 05:32, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Summary: fmt ref name, + ft native, librarians, + cite web, + link Shenk, + ft so congruent wrt sources; see Talk
Explication: Format <ref name=Dorpat>, etc.; add short full text ~Dkhw’Duw’Absh, librarians 1920s, add template cite web, add link in reference Shenk, add short full text so content is congruent with respect to sources; see Discussion, which refers to this paragraph. --
GoDot
07:22, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Accuracy is a goal.
"[O]n the east by the Burke-Gilman Trail and 25th Avenue NE," is less accurate in that the two are parallel, therefore logically "and" doesn't apply here. Further, contiguous UW facilities are sited betweeen them, and by definition these would be in the U District. More accurately, "on the north by NE Ravenna Boulevard and NE 45th Street," is per cited reference map. "[I]s known throughout the city", since asking such as any bus driver how to get there will be recognized. ("U Village" is similarly recognized by anyone who knows the prominent city places.)
"[K]nown as 'The Avenue' or ' The Ave' should be denoted since it is an internal link to an integral part of the neighborhood.
"One-way pair" makes clear. That they are a pair is not necessarily obvious to anyone who doesn't already know. One-way streets are not necessarily immediately adjacent. Which goes which way is less essential since the pair conforms to the drive-on-the-right-side-of-the-road convention. That they are not so well-known is demonstrated by drivers occasionally going the wrong way for blocks.
More accurately, only part of 15th Avenue is a principal arterial.
"The sentence "are its principal" contains a redundancy; most everything in the article is about the neighborhood.
That the Street Fair is indigenous and first of its kind in itself displays the character of the neighborhood. It is particular, so therefore a proper noun. "[F]ounded in the college culture of 1968 is one of the most telling aspects of the development of the Experimental College--and the context for the creation of the Street Fair. Note the link to that particular year. That the Blue Moon is "an unofficial landmark" is integral with what it is, and emblematic of an aspect of the neighborhood. It didn't win historical landmark status from the Downtown-dominated City Council in part because it is blue-collar--and avowedly anti-fudd. That Scarecrow is locally-owned further characterizes the neighborhood, in the same way that the Saturday Farmers' Market is the first of its kind and the most popular in the city. That the Meany Hotel has a corportate name is irrelevant to its archictectural and neighborhood significance. "The Meany Hotel" is widely recognized and as such what significance does the corporate name contribute to the purpose of the article? The name is itself only a product placement, and as such would not qualify for Wikipedia:Neutral point of view.
What does the modifier in "39,250-strong" contribute to the purpose of the article?
A descriptive sentence containing
Street layout of Seattle is a useful link that is particularly relevant to content of metro neighborhoods articles, since such info is of particular interest to anyone wishing to navigate a city. Its codification has been a big deal in Seattle public works (cf. Phelps, Samson). The layout patterns of New York are famous. As such it is also a distinctive aspect of community character, demonstrably so with respect to that of different cultures.
After the initial paragraph, "NE" is redundant; they're all NE around here. People don't much use the compass designations within a neighborhood (unless disambiguation is required). The link provides any further elaboration desired.
-- GoDot 05:32, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Do we really want to include "East Campus" as part of the U-District? Does the U-District really extend all the way to Surber Drive in Laurelhurst? -- Lukobe 05:10, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
It seems to me that this article is getting a little out of hand. The references and bibliography section are longer than the article and seem to contain a bunch of subcutaneous drile. Anyways, although this article has gone through a substantial clean-up, i really think more than the surface needs to be cleaned up.-- Gephart 13:03, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Many of the references seem to be nonstandard; I can make no sense of "Dorpat" as a citation. Many of the cited texts seem to confuse in text citation (author's last name) with a full citation. Some cleanup is required, ideally by someone who knows what the citations mean. --
TeaDrinker
10:07, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
This article is a mix of citation styles, with some named refs, and then inline refs, resulting in repeated references to the same thing, and in other cases, references being listed in both reference sections for the same citation. Can someone more familiar with reference styling fix this? SchmuckyTheCat ( talk)
I removed a bunch of old junk references that didn't point to anything in the article, and transitioned most of the refs over to inline refs. Didn't get it 100%, but it's much better now. -- Ajohns90 ( talk) 10:52, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
I thought there was an article on Street Fair already? I can't find a link to it here, so I'll start an article.
As a separate matter, because of the citation style problem above, I can't quickly lookup the reference to say it began in 1970. The first Street Fair was in 1969. I'll try and do some fixup here after starting and referencing an actual article. SchmuckyTheCat ( talk)
Bruce Lee had his martial arts studio in the U-district. I'd like to find some references to give a passing mention of this. Any ideas of where to look? -- Kraftlos ( Talk | Contrib) 06:17, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
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