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Hi. I'm Kurt Evans, a former candidate for this office. I know very little about Wikipedia protocol, and I'd appreciate it if someone who knows more would contact me at Kurt.Evans@live.com so we can correspond by email. Among other things, I'd like to discuss the actions of users "ALPolitico" and "Dane2007" pertaining to this article.
Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.248.92 ( talk) 19:00, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for your response. I've never "Declared" for this office except pending a ballot-access lawsuit. What's your rationale for moving the reference to the lawsuit into my biographical information? Also, what's your rationale for removing information about my past campaigns and what kind of teacher I am? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.246.80 ( talk) 19:36, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
I'm not trying to offend you, but I really don't see how you could consider this an improvement, either in terms of information or in terms of aesthetics. Now it looks like my party affiliation is contingent on the lawsuit. It also looks like I was an independent candidate in 2002 and 2014 (I wasn't), and excluding the hypertext links to other Wikipedia articles, there's no documentation of my candidacy in either of those two races. Writing my biographical information into a complete sentence is inconsistent with the rest of the article, and you haven't told me your rationale for removing information about what kind of teacher I am. Bonus trivia: The reference numbers within the text of the article should be placed after, not before, any form of punctuation except an em dash.
And as the final punch line, I haven't been an officially recognized candidate for this office since 2002. I came here today to update the page because we lost the lawsuit, only to find that "ALPolitico" (whose mother apparently dropped him on his head when he was a baby) had gotten my editing privileges blocked. Please file some kind of complaint against him on my behalf. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.246.80 ( talk) 20:44, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
Thanks. That's much better. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.246.80 ( talk) 21:27, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
Hi. This is Kurt Evans again. I see "ALPolitico" (who got my editing privileges here blocked) has come back and reinserted his double-standard subjective editorializing into my biographical information. I'd really appreciate it if someone would tell me how to file a formal complaint against him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.246.254 ( talk) 15:36, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for your help. I'm not sure how the phrase "perennial candidate" is understood in other places. Here in South Dakota it's definitely considered derogatory, but that's beside the point. The point is that, even according to the Wikipedia article "ALPolitico" linked, it's subjective: a political candidate who "frequently" runs for office but "seldom" wins. I'm a 46-year-old man who's been on the ballot three times over the past 20 years, in 1996, 2002 and 2014. Rick Weiland, the former candidate listed directly above me in the article, was on the ballot in exactly the same three years, but "ALPolitico" doesn't seem compelled to remove any of Weiland's biographical information. The phrase "Failed to Qualify" produces a milder objection. I offered myself for nomination contingent on a ballot-access lawsuit the state Constitution Party already had in progress. I've never been a party to that lawsuit or had any control over its outcome, and I've never intended to campaign under the Constitution Party's banner unless the lawsuit was successful. I'm not sure what the solution is here, but I'm content to leave the article as-is unless someone comes up with a better idea. For the record, I'm perfectly happy to have my own actions here examined, as I've given detailed and reasonable explanations for each of my edits. "ALPolitico" simply removed factual information, over and over, initially with no explanation whatsoever. Thanks again for your help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.248.107 ( talk) 21:00, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
I clarified my occupation ("high school math and science teacher"). My three previous campaigns had been placed in the article by someone else. If it had been up to me, they wouldn't have been, but I didn't have a rationale to justify removing them, so I provided documentation instead. Then you went and got "semi-protection" on the supposed grounds that I was self-promoting. Well, yeah, if you define "self-promoting" as preferring accurate factual information to derogatory labels. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.248.107 ( talk) 21:13, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
It's disappointing that you won't explain what "formatting" you mean, because to the best of my recollection, I've never changed any formatting. The person who approved your request for semi-protection admitted to me that he isn't a U.S. citizen and has essentially no understanding of U.S. politics. I'm not surprised that other candidates have become angry with you, or that you expect others to become angry with you in the future. You seem to be a perennial egomaniac. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.248.107 ( talk) 22:14, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
This is Kurt Evans again. The Constitution Party of South Dakota has been in ongoing ballot-access litigation against the state for more than a year. I'm not involved in that litigation and wasn't even a member of the party when it began. It appeared the party might have an opportunity to run a candidate in this race if federal district judge Karen Schreier were to approve a motion for injunction. At the state party convention on July 9, the party nominated me to become its candidate in the event that such a motion were approved.
In late July, user "ALPolitico" began making a series of misleading edits to this article, including falsely listing me as a declared candidate, arbitrarily removing factual information and references about me (and not about anyone else in the article), and repeatedly applying the derogatory label "perennial candidate" to me (and not to anyone else in the article). When I tried to correct the misleading information, "ALPolitico" accused me of disruptive editing based on "inconsistent and incorrect formatting" (see "Second request for assistance" above) and falsely suggested that I was attempting to "advertise" my "supposed qualifications" for office ( https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection/Rolling_archive&oldid=734584830). The article was semi-protected for one week, during which the most egregious edits by "ALPolitico" were corrected by other registered users.
After Judge Schreier had finally rejected motions for injunction and reconsideration on August 31, I updated the article and its references to reflect the fact that the party had been denied ballot access. Now "ALPolitico" is repeatedly insisting that I "Failed to Qualify" despite my clear, direct, repeated explanations that I never agreed to become the Constitution Party's candidate unless Judge Schreier approved its motion for ballot access, much less attempted to qualify as a candidate in this race. Given Judge Schreier's ruling, there's absolutely no way anyone nominated at the state party convention could have possibly qualified as a candidate for this office.
Now "ALPolitico" has accused me even more vaguely of "nonconstructive edits" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection/Rolling_archive&oldid=740955940), resulting in the article being semi-protected for three weeks. Perhaps worse, the explanation for his most recent edit states that party members "are entangled in litigation" attempting to get me on the ballot, and he's removed the reference to a Dakota Free Press article about the judge's final August 31 ruling, creating the false impression that the party is still fighting to place me on the ballot.
It would be a huge help to me if someone more familiar with Wikipedia protocol would let me know whether there's a grievance process that might prevent "ALPolitico" from making further misleading changes to this article, and exactly how I'd go about setting that process in motion. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.248.75 ( talk) 07:40, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
By the way, the reference to the August 15 Ballot Access News article (reinserted by "ALPolitico" after I'd removed it) also contains outdated and misleading information. The best solution here, for the reasons explained above, would be to simply undo his last edit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.248.75 ( talk) 07:49, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
I see "ALPolitico" has come back and added a reference, claiming he "found" the exact court ruling in which the Constitution Party was denied ballot access by Judge Schreier. Predictably, his "finding" doesn't motivate him to put back the information he removed from the article about the party being denied ballot access when its motions for injunction and reconsideration were rejected by Judge Schreier. Equally predictably, "ALPolitico" neglects to mention that he "found" the link in the Dakota Free Press article I'd posted as a reference before, which he arbitrarily removed for no stated reason. (The new reference is also hosted by Dakota Free Press, which now isn't properly credited for it.)
Once again, I'd like to request that someone more familiar with Wikipedia protocol would let me know whether there's a grievance process that might prevent "ALPolitico" from making further misleading changes to this article, and exactly how I'd go about setting that process in motion. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.252.30 ( talk) 21:18, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
(1) As I've repeatedly explained in the sections above, I never declared as the Constitution Party's candidate for this office, much less attempted to qualify for the ballot. From the beginning, my potential candidacy was contingent on the state party's already-pending ballot-access lawsuit. I wasn't involved in the litigation, had no control over its outcome and and wasn't even a member of the party when it began. The Constitution Party was denied ballot access when federal district judge Karen Schreier rejected the state party's motions to allow a U.S. Senate candidacy. There's no way that I, or anyone else nominated at the state party convention, could have possibly qualified as a candidate for this office. (2) Contrary to previous expectations, I didn't go back to teaching this fall and haven't taught since before I rejoined the Constitution Party. In any case, considering the fact that the party's motions to allow my candidacy were rejected by Judge Schreier, my occupation has little if any relevance to this article. (3) The August 15 Ballot Access News article cited as a reference contained outdated and misleading information, as the final status of a potential U.S. Senate candidacy hadn't yet been determined at that time. (4) As explained above (see "Fourth request for assistance"), the reference to court documents supposedly "found" by user "ALPolitico" was an uncredited sub-link from the September 8 Dakota Free Press article I'd posted as a reference before, which he'd arbitrarily removed for no stated reason. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.253.40 ( talk) 04:45, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for your response. Everyone I've contacted about the situation has referred me to a different process. In fact it was "Ymblanter" who assured me (more than two months ago) that someone would follow up if I raised my points on this talk page, but no one ever has unless I directly contacted that person myself. What citations make the "stable version" of the article the version that includes the false and misleading information repeatedly inserted by "ALPolitico"? Shouldn't the fact that he refuses to even attempt to discuss his edits here give me the benefit of the doubt? Are you saying there's some kind of Wikipedia rule that prevents you from making the corrections? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.255.181 ( talk) 06:35, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
Apparently both of the editors who've repeatedly reinserted false and misleading information about me into this article—and gotten "semi-protection" applied to prevent me from correcting that information—are now giving me the silent treatment: /info/en/?search=User_talk:Dane2007#South_Dakota_Senate_Election
Wikipedia seems to be a truly horrible place. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.244.94 ( talk) 16:05, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
This
edit request to
United States Senate election in South Dakota, 2016 has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
http://kelo.com/news/articles/2016/nov/01/poll-trump-thune-noem-maintain-leads-in-sd/
New poll from Nielson Brothers. Please can someone put this into the 'polling section?' Thanks!!
86.152.243.70 ( talk) 03:25, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
On November 19, user "ALPolitico" requested indefinite semi-protection for this article saying, "An individual who was nominated by the Constitution Party, which failed to obtain ballot access, has repeatedly engaged in unconstructive edits to this article since the summer."
On November 20, user HJ Mitchell declined that request saying, "Not enough recent disruptive activity to justify protection."
Later on November 20, user "Dane2007" wrote to HJ Mitchell, "Please review the history on this article again. The disruptive activity on this article has been frequent and regular throughout the summer and it started again right when the last protection fell off of the article. The talk page has relevant information about the IP user and their WP:IDONTLIKEIT behavior."
The above conversation is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection/Rolling_archive&oldid=750632481#20_November_2016
On November 22, user "Dane2007" made another request for indefinite semi-protection: "Persistent disruptive editing – Persistent disruptive edit warring by IPs since the summer. This is WP:IDONTLIKEIT behavior. User has been instructed to follow the correct processes and does not do so."
Later on November 22, "Cyberbot I" posted the following automated comment: "A request for protection/unprotection for one or more pages in this request was recently made, and was denied at some point within the last 8 days."
Still later on November 22, I added the following comment under the new request for semi-protection: "I'm Kurt Evans, the 2002 U.S. Senate candidate that users 'ALPolitico' and 'Dane2007' have repeatedly accused of disruptive editing. As I've repeatedly explained on the article's 'Talk' page, I never declared as a Constitution Party candidate for this office, nor was I ever legally recognized as such. My edits are primarily to correct false and misleading information, while both 'ALPolitico' and 'Dane2007' refuse to discuss the reasons for their edits. From my perspective it seems that they're the ones engaging in disruptive edit-warring and 'I-don't-like-it' behavior."
Those last three comments are here: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection&oldid=751015714#United_States_Senate_election_in_South_Dakota.2C_2016 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.252.72 ( talk) 22:18, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
In considering the status of a Request for Comments on a contentious issue, the closer needs to take into account not only the views expressed by the participants but also whether those views comport with Wikipedia policies and guidelines. The exercise is not merely one of counting heads; for this reason we refer to views expressed in such discussions as “!votes” or “not votes.”
This RfC attracted a lot of text but relatively few distinct editors and very few concrete wordings. No alternative wording attracted serious support.
Although Wikipedia tries to consider the preference of BLP subjects when possible, that is secondary to providing a comprehensive, neutral encyclopedia with proper weight given to each topic addressed in an article. In the case of this RfC, the obvious most important policy is
Wikipedia's policy on Biographies of Living People. That policy states any information in such articles: must adhere strictly to all applicable laws in the United States, to this policy, and to Wikipedia's three core content policies:
Neutral point of view (NPOV),
Verifiability (V),
No original research (NOR)
.
The views expressed by participants in this discussion and in the related Administrator's Noticeboard Incident discussion were evaluated in the context of these content policies.
The verifiable facts as presented in reliable sources are these: The State of South Dakota sets ballot access requirements that favor the two established major parties (the Democratic Party and the Republican Party). Two third parties (the Libertarian Party and the Constitution Party) chose to challenge those laws in federal court. While this legal challenge was underway, the Constitution Party chose to nominate Kurt Evans as its candidate for United States Senator from South Dakota. Neither the party nor the candidate ever attempted to comply with the terms of the ballot access laws they challenged. The litigation closed without a decision in favor of the plaintiffs and Kurt Evans was not on the ballot.
The only way to close this RfC in line with both sources and policy, therefore, is not to use either “not qualified” or “denied.” There is no consensus for a particular wording. The policy on consensus says:
In discussions of proposals to add, modify or remove material in articles, a lack of consensus commonly results in retaining the version of the article as it was prior to the proposal or bold edit. However, for contentious matters related to living people, a lack of consensus often results in the removal of the contentious matter, regardless of whether the proposal was to add, modify or remove it.
No consensus was reached for how to discuss Kurt Evans. Because there is no consensus and this is a "contentious matte[r] related to living people", the "not qualified" or "denied" wording should not be restored.
Speaking as editors instead of closers, we believe that a simple and neutral way to describe this situation is to list the Constitution Party and Evans as "Did not gain ballot access", "Nominated but not listed on ballot", or an equivalent formulation. We recommend that editors consider our suggestions as a possible basis for further discussion and that editors follow the normal cycle of editing to reach consensus on an exact wording. To make it perfectly clear: this suggestion is editorial, not administrative. The normal cycle of editing can and should attempt to refine it. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 05:50, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
Related Diffs: Contested Presentation in Article; AN/I prior to RfC
Should Kurt Evans be listed as "Failed to Qualify"?
Thanks! -- Dane talk 01:05, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
This is Kurt Evans. For the record, I'm still open to the idea I'd suggested in the AN/I discussion of this article, specifically the possibility of replacing my listing with the following text: "In a previously pending ballot-access lawsuit, the Constitution Party of South Dakota filed two motions to allow 2002 Libertarian Party nominee Kurt Evans to become the Constitution Party's 2016 U.S. Senate candidate. Federal district judge Karen Schreier rejected the respective motions on August 15 and August 31." It seems to me that "Denied ballot access" would still be the most accurate subheader for the section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.255.182 ( talk) 04:52, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
This is Kurt Evans again, addressing the explanation by "Calton" for his vote above. (1) I had no influence over the state party's legal arguments or Judge Schreier's ruling. Whether I was allowed to become the Constitution Party's candidate was beyond my control. (2) "Calton" seems to be simply ignoring my comments about the meaning of the word "qualify" in this context. In South Dakota a candidate for statewide office "qualifies" by submitting a required number of petition signatures to the secretary of state's office. Saying someone didn't "qualify" means that he or she declared as a candidate but didn't submit the required signatures, which is nearly the opposite of what happened in the case at hand. (3) I didn't have "hurt feelings" when the Constitution Party was finally denied ballot access. I believe the ruling was unjust, but I was personally relieved. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.250.64 ( talk) 20:38, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
As a clarification to point #1 in the preceding comment, the ballot-access lawsuit had already been in progress for more than a year, and the state party's motions to allow a U.S. Senate candidacy were based on legal proceedings that took place before I'd even rejoined the party. —KE — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.255.183 ( talk) 22:40, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
This is Kurt Evans. I'm wondering whether the expiration of the RFC template marked the end of this discussion and, if so, what's supposed to happen next. — 216.249.245.49 ( talk) 03:34, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
This is Kurt Evans. My requests to several media outlets for minor corrections were delayed by the holidays, and there's still some inaccurate information at the Dakota Free Press, KELO-TV and Ballotpedia websites. As long as no new accusations are being posted against me, there's no incentive for me to have the discussion here closed, and I'd like to ask for a ten-day extension. — 216.249.245.49 ( talk) 07:09, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
This
edit request to
United States Senate election in South Dakota, 2016 has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Request removal of the following source (currently reference #20):
Wikipedia policy forbids the use of "trial transcripts and other court records, or other public documents, to support assertions about a living person."
This
edit request to
United States Senate election in South Dakota, 2016 has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Request addition of the following source immediately following reference #19:
(pull exact text from diff)
This source documents the final legal resolution of the matter. — 208.53.225.75 ( talk) 03:46, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
Here's the diff with the exact text of the reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=767306806 — 208.53.225.75 ( talk) 03:56, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
Okay, let me try it this way:
Please change [1] [2] to [3] [4] [5]. — 208.53.225.67 ( talk) 18:03, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
References
As previously explained to "Eggishorn" in the following section of this talk page, the reason for adding the September 8 source to the article is as follows: The two current references in the Constitution Party section of the article accurately document the first statement in that section (that the state party "nominated Kurt Evans for Senate depending on the resolution of a ballot-access legal action"), but neither of those two references accurately documents the second statement in that section (that the state party's request [should be "motions" (plural)] to place a U.S. Senate candidate on the ballot "was [should be 'were'] not granted"). The Constitution Party wasn't ultimately denied ballot access until Judge Schreier had finally rejected both of the state party's motions to allow a U.S. Senate candidacy on August 31, well after the section's current sources were published. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.53.225.67 ( talk) 22:35, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
These are excerpts from the following AN/I discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=752732312#Disruptive_editing_and_BLP_accusations_with_United_States_Senate_election_in_South_Dakota.2C_2016
Kurt Evans:
"Matticusmadness":
Dane:
"ALPolitico":
Kurt Evans:
Dane:
Kurt Evans:
Dane:
Kurt Evans:
"Someguy1221":
Dane:
Kurt Evans:
*end of excerpts from AN/I discussion*
Neither Dane nor any other regular Wikipedia editor has provided any legitimate reason whatsoever for removing the September 8 source—the only source ever added here that actually documents the final legal resolution of the matter—and it's long past time for Dane to explain his real reason for repeatedly removing it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.248.20 ( talk) 18:35, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
I hate to break it to you, but neither @ Dane2007: nor any other editor owes you any explanation. No editor owes you anything, as a matter of fact. Now, granted, there are policies and guidelines and certain non-negotiables (like BLP) and we generally like to see that BLP subjects are treated fairly, but the demands of an article subject are not required to be heeded. I did read through the prior extensive discussion in order to attempt to treat you as fairly as possible in closing the discussion above. At this point, you are verging on quixotic quests to have the information presented as you want and only as you want. There is no requirement for that. There is a requirement for sourcing, but not all sources are required nor are only the sources you deem acceptable required. Threats and demands, especially legal threats, are not going to get you anywhere. If you would clearly and concisely state what you wanted, you might get it. In point of fact, that's exactly what happened when you posted your first edit request above, isn't it? I left the second alone because I wasn't sure what it was requesting, and this Jeremiad above really doesn't help any other editor trying to improve the article. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:04, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
"Eggishorn" writes, "You expect other editors to cater to your opinion. You seem to feel you are in possession of THE TRUTHTM and state that everyone else is blocking it."
"Eggishorn" asks, "Do you think your method of interacting with the other editors is working?"
"Eggishorn" asks, "Is achieving that goal, i.e., an article that reads the way you want, important to you? Or is being "right" (in whatever way you define as "right") more important?"
Dane writes, " Eggishorn has covered it very well - you've gone through the processes, the article has been revised - in fact, we (multiple editors) even reviewed it a second time to come up with a different version."
Dane writes, "... you have repeatedly stated ALPolitico and I are simply working against you, almost implying that we have some sort of agenda to provide inaccurate information."
Dane writes, "We are working with in Wikipedia policy and guidelines to create content that is unbiased and correct - and the process of gaining consensus has run and determined the best way to present the content."
Drop the stick. -- Dane talk 02:25, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Hi. I'm Kurt Evans, a former candidate for this office. I know very little about Wikipedia protocol, and I'd appreciate it if someone who knows more would contact me at Kurt.Evans@live.com so we can correspond by email. Among other things, I'd like to discuss the actions of users "ALPolitico" and "Dane2007" pertaining to this article.
Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.248.92 ( talk) 19:00, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for your response. I've never "Declared" for this office except pending a ballot-access lawsuit. What's your rationale for moving the reference to the lawsuit into my biographical information? Also, what's your rationale for removing information about my past campaigns and what kind of teacher I am? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.246.80 ( talk) 19:36, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
I'm not trying to offend you, but I really don't see how you could consider this an improvement, either in terms of information or in terms of aesthetics. Now it looks like my party affiliation is contingent on the lawsuit. It also looks like I was an independent candidate in 2002 and 2014 (I wasn't), and excluding the hypertext links to other Wikipedia articles, there's no documentation of my candidacy in either of those two races. Writing my biographical information into a complete sentence is inconsistent with the rest of the article, and you haven't told me your rationale for removing information about what kind of teacher I am. Bonus trivia: The reference numbers within the text of the article should be placed after, not before, any form of punctuation except an em dash.
And as the final punch line, I haven't been an officially recognized candidate for this office since 2002. I came here today to update the page because we lost the lawsuit, only to find that "ALPolitico" (whose mother apparently dropped him on his head when he was a baby) had gotten my editing privileges blocked. Please file some kind of complaint against him on my behalf. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.246.80 ( talk) 20:44, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
Thanks. That's much better. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.246.80 ( talk) 21:27, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
Hi. This is Kurt Evans again. I see "ALPolitico" (who got my editing privileges here blocked) has come back and reinserted his double-standard subjective editorializing into my biographical information. I'd really appreciate it if someone would tell me how to file a formal complaint against him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.246.254 ( talk) 15:36, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for your help. I'm not sure how the phrase "perennial candidate" is understood in other places. Here in South Dakota it's definitely considered derogatory, but that's beside the point. The point is that, even according to the Wikipedia article "ALPolitico" linked, it's subjective: a political candidate who "frequently" runs for office but "seldom" wins. I'm a 46-year-old man who's been on the ballot three times over the past 20 years, in 1996, 2002 and 2014. Rick Weiland, the former candidate listed directly above me in the article, was on the ballot in exactly the same three years, but "ALPolitico" doesn't seem compelled to remove any of Weiland's biographical information. The phrase "Failed to Qualify" produces a milder objection. I offered myself for nomination contingent on a ballot-access lawsuit the state Constitution Party already had in progress. I've never been a party to that lawsuit or had any control over its outcome, and I've never intended to campaign under the Constitution Party's banner unless the lawsuit was successful. I'm not sure what the solution is here, but I'm content to leave the article as-is unless someone comes up with a better idea. For the record, I'm perfectly happy to have my own actions here examined, as I've given detailed and reasonable explanations for each of my edits. "ALPolitico" simply removed factual information, over and over, initially with no explanation whatsoever. Thanks again for your help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.248.107 ( talk) 21:00, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
I clarified my occupation ("high school math and science teacher"). My three previous campaigns had been placed in the article by someone else. If it had been up to me, they wouldn't have been, but I didn't have a rationale to justify removing them, so I provided documentation instead. Then you went and got "semi-protection" on the supposed grounds that I was self-promoting. Well, yeah, if you define "self-promoting" as preferring accurate factual information to derogatory labels. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.248.107 ( talk) 21:13, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
It's disappointing that you won't explain what "formatting" you mean, because to the best of my recollection, I've never changed any formatting. The person who approved your request for semi-protection admitted to me that he isn't a U.S. citizen and has essentially no understanding of U.S. politics. I'm not surprised that other candidates have become angry with you, or that you expect others to become angry with you in the future. You seem to be a perennial egomaniac. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.248.107 ( talk) 22:14, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
This is Kurt Evans again. The Constitution Party of South Dakota has been in ongoing ballot-access litigation against the state for more than a year. I'm not involved in that litigation and wasn't even a member of the party when it began. It appeared the party might have an opportunity to run a candidate in this race if federal district judge Karen Schreier were to approve a motion for injunction. At the state party convention on July 9, the party nominated me to become its candidate in the event that such a motion were approved.
In late July, user "ALPolitico" began making a series of misleading edits to this article, including falsely listing me as a declared candidate, arbitrarily removing factual information and references about me (and not about anyone else in the article), and repeatedly applying the derogatory label "perennial candidate" to me (and not to anyone else in the article). When I tried to correct the misleading information, "ALPolitico" accused me of disruptive editing based on "inconsistent and incorrect formatting" (see "Second request for assistance" above) and falsely suggested that I was attempting to "advertise" my "supposed qualifications" for office ( https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection/Rolling_archive&oldid=734584830). The article was semi-protected for one week, during which the most egregious edits by "ALPolitico" were corrected by other registered users.
After Judge Schreier had finally rejected motions for injunction and reconsideration on August 31, I updated the article and its references to reflect the fact that the party had been denied ballot access. Now "ALPolitico" is repeatedly insisting that I "Failed to Qualify" despite my clear, direct, repeated explanations that I never agreed to become the Constitution Party's candidate unless Judge Schreier approved its motion for ballot access, much less attempted to qualify as a candidate in this race. Given Judge Schreier's ruling, there's absolutely no way anyone nominated at the state party convention could have possibly qualified as a candidate for this office.
Now "ALPolitico" has accused me even more vaguely of "nonconstructive edits" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection/Rolling_archive&oldid=740955940), resulting in the article being semi-protected for three weeks. Perhaps worse, the explanation for his most recent edit states that party members "are entangled in litigation" attempting to get me on the ballot, and he's removed the reference to a Dakota Free Press article about the judge's final August 31 ruling, creating the false impression that the party is still fighting to place me on the ballot.
It would be a huge help to me if someone more familiar with Wikipedia protocol would let me know whether there's a grievance process that might prevent "ALPolitico" from making further misleading changes to this article, and exactly how I'd go about setting that process in motion. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.248.75 ( talk) 07:40, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
By the way, the reference to the August 15 Ballot Access News article (reinserted by "ALPolitico" after I'd removed it) also contains outdated and misleading information. The best solution here, for the reasons explained above, would be to simply undo his last edit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.248.75 ( talk) 07:49, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
I see "ALPolitico" has come back and added a reference, claiming he "found" the exact court ruling in which the Constitution Party was denied ballot access by Judge Schreier. Predictably, his "finding" doesn't motivate him to put back the information he removed from the article about the party being denied ballot access when its motions for injunction and reconsideration were rejected by Judge Schreier. Equally predictably, "ALPolitico" neglects to mention that he "found" the link in the Dakota Free Press article I'd posted as a reference before, which he arbitrarily removed for no stated reason. (The new reference is also hosted by Dakota Free Press, which now isn't properly credited for it.)
Once again, I'd like to request that someone more familiar with Wikipedia protocol would let me know whether there's a grievance process that might prevent "ALPolitico" from making further misleading changes to this article, and exactly how I'd go about setting that process in motion. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.252.30 ( talk) 21:18, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
(1) As I've repeatedly explained in the sections above, I never declared as the Constitution Party's candidate for this office, much less attempted to qualify for the ballot. From the beginning, my potential candidacy was contingent on the state party's already-pending ballot-access lawsuit. I wasn't involved in the litigation, had no control over its outcome and and wasn't even a member of the party when it began. The Constitution Party was denied ballot access when federal district judge Karen Schreier rejected the state party's motions to allow a U.S. Senate candidacy. There's no way that I, or anyone else nominated at the state party convention, could have possibly qualified as a candidate for this office. (2) Contrary to previous expectations, I didn't go back to teaching this fall and haven't taught since before I rejoined the Constitution Party. In any case, considering the fact that the party's motions to allow my candidacy were rejected by Judge Schreier, my occupation has little if any relevance to this article. (3) The August 15 Ballot Access News article cited as a reference contained outdated and misleading information, as the final status of a potential U.S. Senate candidacy hadn't yet been determined at that time. (4) As explained above (see "Fourth request for assistance"), the reference to court documents supposedly "found" by user "ALPolitico" was an uncredited sub-link from the September 8 Dakota Free Press article I'd posted as a reference before, which he'd arbitrarily removed for no stated reason. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.253.40 ( talk) 04:45, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for your response. Everyone I've contacted about the situation has referred me to a different process. In fact it was "Ymblanter" who assured me (more than two months ago) that someone would follow up if I raised my points on this talk page, but no one ever has unless I directly contacted that person myself. What citations make the "stable version" of the article the version that includes the false and misleading information repeatedly inserted by "ALPolitico"? Shouldn't the fact that he refuses to even attempt to discuss his edits here give me the benefit of the doubt? Are you saying there's some kind of Wikipedia rule that prevents you from making the corrections? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.255.181 ( talk) 06:35, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
Apparently both of the editors who've repeatedly reinserted false and misleading information about me into this article—and gotten "semi-protection" applied to prevent me from correcting that information—are now giving me the silent treatment: /info/en/?search=User_talk:Dane2007#South_Dakota_Senate_Election
Wikipedia seems to be a truly horrible place. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.244.94 ( talk) 16:05, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
This
edit request to
United States Senate election in South Dakota, 2016 has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
http://kelo.com/news/articles/2016/nov/01/poll-trump-thune-noem-maintain-leads-in-sd/
New poll from Nielson Brothers. Please can someone put this into the 'polling section?' Thanks!!
86.152.243.70 ( talk) 03:25, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
On November 19, user "ALPolitico" requested indefinite semi-protection for this article saying, "An individual who was nominated by the Constitution Party, which failed to obtain ballot access, has repeatedly engaged in unconstructive edits to this article since the summer."
On November 20, user HJ Mitchell declined that request saying, "Not enough recent disruptive activity to justify protection."
Later on November 20, user "Dane2007" wrote to HJ Mitchell, "Please review the history on this article again. The disruptive activity on this article has been frequent and regular throughout the summer and it started again right when the last protection fell off of the article. The talk page has relevant information about the IP user and their WP:IDONTLIKEIT behavior."
The above conversation is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection/Rolling_archive&oldid=750632481#20_November_2016
On November 22, user "Dane2007" made another request for indefinite semi-protection: "Persistent disruptive editing – Persistent disruptive edit warring by IPs since the summer. This is WP:IDONTLIKEIT behavior. User has been instructed to follow the correct processes and does not do so."
Later on November 22, "Cyberbot I" posted the following automated comment: "A request for protection/unprotection for one or more pages in this request was recently made, and was denied at some point within the last 8 days."
Still later on November 22, I added the following comment under the new request for semi-protection: "I'm Kurt Evans, the 2002 U.S. Senate candidate that users 'ALPolitico' and 'Dane2007' have repeatedly accused of disruptive editing. As I've repeatedly explained on the article's 'Talk' page, I never declared as a Constitution Party candidate for this office, nor was I ever legally recognized as such. My edits are primarily to correct false and misleading information, while both 'ALPolitico' and 'Dane2007' refuse to discuss the reasons for their edits. From my perspective it seems that they're the ones engaging in disruptive edit-warring and 'I-don't-like-it' behavior."
Those last three comments are here: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection&oldid=751015714#United_States_Senate_election_in_South_Dakota.2C_2016 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.252.72 ( talk) 22:18, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
In considering the status of a Request for Comments on a contentious issue, the closer needs to take into account not only the views expressed by the participants but also whether those views comport with Wikipedia policies and guidelines. The exercise is not merely one of counting heads; for this reason we refer to views expressed in such discussions as “!votes” or “not votes.”
This RfC attracted a lot of text but relatively few distinct editors and very few concrete wordings. No alternative wording attracted serious support.
Although Wikipedia tries to consider the preference of BLP subjects when possible, that is secondary to providing a comprehensive, neutral encyclopedia with proper weight given to each topic addressed in an article. In the case of this RfC, the obvious most important policy is
Wikipedia's policy on Biographies of Living People. That policy states any information in such articles: must adhere strictly to all applicable laws in the United States, to this policy, and to Wikipedia's three core content policies:
Neutral point of view (NPOV),
Verifiability (V),
No original research (NOR)
.
The views expressed by participants in this discussion and in the related Administrator's Noticeboard Incident discussion were evaluated in the context of these content policies.
The verifiable facts as presented in reliable sources are these: The State of South Dakota sets ballot access requirements that favor the two established major parties (the Democratic Party and the Republican Party). Two third parties (the Libertarian Party and the Constitution Party) chose to challenge those laws in federal court. While this legal challenge was underway, the Constitution Party chose to nominate Kurt Evans as its candidate for United States Senator from South Dakota. Neither the party nor the candidate ever attempted to comply with the terms of the ballot access laws they challenged. The litigation closed without a decision in favor of the plaintiffs and Kurt Evans was not on the ballot.
The only way to close this RfC in line with both sources and policy, therefore, is not to use either “not qualified” or “denied.” There is no consensus for a particular wording. The policy on consensus says:
In discussions of proposals to add, modify or remove material in articles, a lack of consensus commonly results in retaining the version of the article as it was prior to the proposal or bold edit. However, for contentious matters related to living people, a lack of consensus often results in the removal of the contentious matter, regardless of whether the proposal was to add, modify or remove it.
No consensus was reached for how to discuss Kurt Evans. Because there is no consensus and this is a "contentious matte[r] related to living people", the "not qualified" or "denied" wording should not be restored.
Speaking as editors instead of closers, we believe that a simple and neutral way to describe this situation is to list the Constitution Party and Evans as "Did not gain ballot access", "Nominated but not listed on ballot", or an equivalent formulation. We recommend that editors consider our suggestions as a possible basis for further discussion and that editors follow the normal cycle of editing to reach consensus on an exact wording. To make it perfectly clear: this suggestion is editorial, not administrative. The normal cycle of editing can and should attempt to refine it. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 05:50, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
Related Diffs: Contested Presentation in Article; AN/I prior to RfC
Should Kurt Evans be listed as "Failed to Qualify"?
Thanks! -- Dane talk 01:05, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
This is Kurt Evans. For the record, I'm still open to the idea I'd suggested in the AN/I discussion of this article, specifically the possibility of replacing my listing with the following text: "In a previously pending ballot-access lawsuit, the Constitution Party of South Dakota filed two motions to allow 2002 Libertarian Party nominee Kurt Evans to become the Constitution Party's 2016 U.S. Senate candidate. Federal district judge Karen Schreier rejected the respective motions on August 15 and August 31." It seems to me that "Denied ballot access" would still be the most accurate subheader for the section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.255.182 ( talk) 04:52, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
This is Kurt Evans again, addressing the explanation by "Calton" for his vote above. (1) I had no influence over the state party's legal arguments or Judge Schreier's ruling. Whether I was allowed to become the Constitution Party's candidate was beyond my control. (2) "Calton" seems to be simply ignoring my comments about the meaning of the word "qualify" in this context. In South Dakota a candidate for statewide office "qualifies" by submitting a required number of petition signatures to the secretary of state's office. Saying someone didn't "qualify" means that he or she declared as a candidate but didn't submit the required signatures, which is nearly the opposite of what happened in the case at hand. (3) I didn't have "hurt feelings" when the Constitution Party was finally denied ballot access. I believe the ruling was unjust, but I was personally relieved. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.250.64 ( talk) 20:38, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
As a clarification to point #1 in the preceding comment, the ballot-access lawsuit had already been in progress for more than a year, and the state party's motions to allow a U.S. Senate candidacy were based on legal proceedings that took place before I'd even rejoined the party. —KE — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.255.183 ( talk) 22:40, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
This is Kurt Evans. I'm wondering whether the expiration of the RFC template marked the end of this discussion and, if so, what's supposed to happen next. — 216.249.245.49 ( talk) 03:34, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
This is Kurt Evans. My requests to several media outlets for minor corrections were delayed by the holidays, and there's still some inaccurate information at the Dakota Free Press, KELO-TV and Ballotpedia websites. As long as no new accusations are being posted against me, there's no incentive for me to have the discussion here closed, and I'd like to ask for a ten-day extension. — 216.249.245.49 ( talk) 07:09, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
This
edit request to
United States Senate election in South Dakota, 2016 has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Request removal of the following source (currently reference #20):
Wikipedia policy forbids the use of "trial transcripts and other court records, or other public documents, to support assertions about a living person."
This
edit request to
United States Senate election in South Dakota, 2016 has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Request addition of the following source immediately following reference #19:
(pull exact text from diff)
This source documents the final legal resolution of the matter. — 208.53.225.75 ( talk) 03:46, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
Here's the diff with the exact text of the reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=767306806 — 208.53.225.75 ( talk) 03:56, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
Okay, let me try it this way:
Please change [1] [2] to [3] [4] [5]. — 208.53.225.67 ( talk) 18:03, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
References
As previously explained to "Eggishorn" in the following section of this talk page, the reason for adding the September 8 source to the article is as follows: The two current references in the Constitution Party section of the article accurately document the first statement in that section (that the state party "nominated Kurt Evans for Senate depending on the resolution of a ballot-access legal action"), but neither of those two references accurately documents the second statement in that section (that the state party's request [should be "motions" (plural)] to place a U.S. Senate candidate on the ballot "was [should be 'were'] not granted"). The Constitution Party wasn't ultimately denied ballot access until Judge Schreier had finally rejected both of the state party's motions to allow a U.S. Senate candidacy on August 31, well after the section's current sources were published. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.53.225.67 ( talk) 22:35, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
These are excerpts from the following AN/I discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=752732312#Disruptive_editing_and_BLP_accusations_with_United_States_Senate_election_in_South_Dakota.2C_2016
Kurt Evans:
"Matticusmadness":
Dane:
"ALPolitico":
Kurt Evans:
Dane:
Kurt Evans:
Dane:
Kurt Evans:
"Someguy1221":
Dane:
Kurt Evans:
*end of excerpts from AN/I discussion*
Neither Dane nor any other regular Wikipedia editor has provided any legitimate reason whatsoever for removing the September 8 source—the only source ever added here that actually documents the final legal resolution of the matter—and it's long past time for Dane to explain his real reason for repeatedly removing it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.248.20 ( talk) 18:35, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
I hate to break it to you, but neither @ Dane2007: nor any other editor owes you any explanation. No editor owes you anything, as a matter of fact. Now, granted, there are policies and guidelines and certain non-negotiables (like BLP) and we generally like to see that BLP subjects are treated fairly, but the demands of an article subject are not required to be heeded. I did read through the prior extensive discussion in order to attempt to treat you as fairly as possible in closing the discussion above. At this point, you are verging on quixotic quests to have the information presented as you want and only as you want. There is no requirement for that. There is a requirement for sourcing, but not all sources are required nor are only the sources you deem acceptable required. Threats and demands, especially legal threats, are not going to get you anywhere. If you would clearly and concisely state what you wanted, you might get it. In point of fact, that's exactly what happened when you posted your first edit request above, isn't it? I left the second alone because I wasn't sure what it was requesting, and this Jeremiad above really doesn't help any other editor trying to improve the article. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:04, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
"Eggishorn" writes, "You expect other editors to cater to your opinion. You seem to feel you are in possession of THE TRUTHTM and state that everyone else is blocking it."
"Eggishorn" asks, "Do you think your method of interacting with the other editors is working?"
"Eggishorn" asks, "Is achieving that goal, i.e., an article that reads the way you want, important to you? Or is being "right" (in whatever way you define as "right") more important?"
Dane writes, " Eggishorn has covered it very well - you've gone through the processes, the article has been revised - in fact, we (multiple editors) even reviewed it a second time to come up with a different version."
Dane writes, "... you have repeatedly stated ALPolitico and I are simply working against you, almost implying that we have some sort of agenda to provide inaccurate information."
Dane writes, "We are working with in Wikipedia policy and guidelines to create content that is unbiased and correct - and the process of gaining consensus has run and determined the best way to present the content."
Drop the stick. -- Dane talk 02:25, 26 February 2017 (UTC)