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John, I have no objection to your basic concept. I see your desire to make them left to right in order of seniority ranking and have submitted a temporary compromise. I think I can do better. My view is that a person visiting here is to get see the insignia first, and any descriptive text second. At least, that was the point when I designed all 8 of the armed forces insignia pages to begin with (see the navigation box for the other examples). I'm thinking of a way to cut this recent version down even more vertically without sacrificing having it hug the left border. I moved the specialist left, and moved the SMA down to E-9. How does it look for you? - Wguynes 01:27, May 3, 2004 (UTC)
Note: A few of the images do not yet have transparent backgrounds. I have tried to fix that but have been unsuccessful in getting adequate results. User:Patrick Henke
I don't agree with the suggestion that this page be merged with the U.S. Army page. Ideally this page will someday be expanded to also cover historical insignia which would not be appropriate to include on that page. - Caerwine 22:32, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
This article doesn't mention where the insignia is placed on the outfit. It's the left sleeve, isn't it? Also maybe the article could mention which outfits these insignias are worn on. Are they worn on the service uniform, the combat uniform, both? Are they worn anywhere else? Thank you. Jecowa 06:24, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
in the US Army Private E-1 rank is simply just Private, and Abrivation is PVT i have changed this acordingly, please visit the following site for confirmation US Army Enlisted Rank Insignia Feeblezak 12:14, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone know if in the Unitied States Army enlisted personel can be fighting personel untill they hold the rank of First Sergeant/,Master Sergeant Or are all Non-Commissioned Officers elegible for combat duty? Feeblezak 19:09, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
The article says that "Sarge" is never used. Can this be true today? Certainly it was commonly used when I was the Army from 1964-1970. I was never addressed by that term as I was a Specialist 5. Could somebody who is currently in the Army reply to this?
Alexselkirk1704 ( talk) 23:16, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
"Sarge" was a part of the lexicon for many decades and was used as a term of familiarity but it faded out of acceptable use with the advent of the all-volunteer force and increased emphasis on respect for the professional statute of the NCO Corps which led to more formal use of the title Sergeant. Prior to the 1990's, it was also routine to refer to Sergeants, Staff Sergeants, Sergeant First Classes, and Master Sergeants as "Sergeant," but in the last decade or two it's become common for those ranks to be addressed with their full title.-- AzureCitizen ( talk) 07:14, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
"Sarge" is really only used in extremely casual circumstances (ie Out-of-uniform) wherein both persons involved are on friendly terms with one another. This is sometimes also used between veterans/retirees as well, when wanting to recognize former rank while still wanting to maintain an overly casual tone. Also, contrary to AzureCitizen's comment, it is NOT common practice in the United States Army to address a Staff Sergeant or Sergeant First Class by his or her full rank. First Sergeants and Sergeants Major are addressed by their full title, whilst Command Sergeants Major and the Sergeant Major of the Army are simply addressed as "Sergeant Major". Referring to a Non-Commissioned Officer by his or her full rank IS common practice in the United States Marine Corps, however. When introducing ANY member of ANY force to another member of ANY force, it is considered proper procedure to use that servicemember's FULL TITLE. Notably, I am speaking entirely from personal experience, here (Specialist, Medically-retired, 2013). -- 107.7.147.20 ( talk) 13:06, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
The rank insignias need to be recolored for the Army Service Uniform. I am sorry that I am not able to do it myself. JaMikePA ( talk) 23:09, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
I purchased some military documents off eBay, which included Recruiting & Career Counseling Journal from April 1965. The cover shows Revised Insignia and Grade Titles effective 1 Sept 1965. It shows what is now the PFC insignia as lance corporal, which is mentioned in the article. The current sergeant major insignia with star is chief master sergeant, and the current command sergeant major insignia with star and wreath as sergeant major. -- 21lima ( talk) 11:19, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
The abbreviation for Corporal as 'CLP' should be fixed. 65.33.35.154 ( talk) 23:44, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
Beginning with General Order 38 on May 2, 1833 dragoon sergeants wore three , yellow point down, chevrons on the dress coat and corporals two. Dragoon first sergeants wore sergeant's uniforms, including the three chevrons, with a yellow sash. Sergeants major and quartermaster sergeants wore the sash and an aiguillette. The chevrons were not worn on the fatigue jackets. There is no evidence of the addition of chevrons in 1846. They were added to the fatigue jackets in 1847 as they were the only uniform being worn in wartime. The chevrons were yellow for dragoons and riflemen and white for infantry and voltigeurs. The artillery wore yellow except for horse artillery companies that wore red. This did not change the chevrons worn on the dragoon dress coats. There is also no evidence of sergeants major wearing four chevrons. Gghbsab ( talk) 21:21, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
The concept of pay grades was created on June 4, 1920 (41stat761). Prior to that date each rank was created by statute and had its own rate of pay. After that date the army could create whatever ranks it wanted within the seven, and later nine, pay grades. There was no such thing as pay grades prior to that date. All ranks were branch specific prior to 1920 as each branch of the army would have different enlisted ranks. Some, such as sergeant and corporal were used by many branches. Others such as master signal electrician were not. Gghbsab ( talk) 15:01, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
The chevron system of 1821 used yellow chevrons for the artillery and white for the infantry. There were no other enlisted men in the army at that time. The authorized NCO strength of the entire army at that time was 11 sergeants major (4 artillery and 7 infantry), 11 quartermaster sergeants (4 artillery and 7 infantry), 14 principal musicians (all infantry), 354 sergeants (144 artillery and 210 infantry) and 424 corporals (144 artillery and 280 infantry). The system was abolished in 1829. It is not clear what replaced it until 1832. Gghbsab ( talk) 15:34, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
I must question the reference for epaulets from 1779 being form a book about the Lewis and Clark expedition that began in 1804. Gghbsab ( talk) 02:54, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
I think we should also show insignia for the Army Blue Service Uniform, and the Green Insignia that can commonly be seen throughout the internet, to show that the insignia already shown in the article is not the only color insignia, and how different uniforms have different colors for insignia. I also think some viewers might prefer one color of insignia over others and it could be more visually appealing to them, making them want to stay on the article, further educating them on Army Ranks which is what they came for, so it wouldn't hurt to educate them more. What do you guys think? Chewingvanilla ( talk) 01:41, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
United States Army enlisted rank insignia article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
John, I have no objection to your basic concept. I see your desire to make them left to right in order of seniority ranking and have submitted a temporary compromise. I think I can do better. My view is that a person visiting here is to get see the insignia first, and any descriptive text second. At least, that was the point when I designed all 8 of the armed forces insignia pages to begin with (see the navigation box for the other examples). I'm thinking of a way to cut this recent version down even more vertically without sacrificing having it hug the left border. I moved the specialist left, and moved the SMA down to E-9. How does it look for you? - Wguynes 01:27, May 3, 2004 (UTC)
Note: A few of the images do not yet have transparent backgrounds. I have tried to fix that but have been unsuccessful in getting adequate results. User:Patrick Henke
I don't agree with the suggestion that this page be merged with the U.S. Army page. Ideally this page will someday be expanded to also cover historical insignia which would not be appropriate to include on that page. - Caerwine 22:32, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
This article doesn't mention where the insignia is placed on the outfit. It's the left sleeve, isn't it? Also maybe the article could mention which outfits these insignias are worn on. Are they worn on the service uniform, the combat uniform, both? Are they worn anywhere else? Thank you. Jecowa 06:24, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
in the US Army Private E-1 rank is simply just Private, and Abrivation is PVT i have changed this acordingly, please visit the following site for confirmation US Army Enlisted Rank Insignia Feeblezak 12:14, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone know if in the Unitied States Army enlisted personel can be fighting personel untill they hold the rank of First Sergeant/,Master Sergeant Or are all Non-Commissioned Officers elegible for combat duty? Feeblezak 19:09, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
The article says that "Sarge" is never used. Can this be true today? Certainly it was commonly used when I was the Army from 1964-1970. I was never addressed by that term as I was a Specialist 5. Could somebody who is currently in the Army reply to this?
Alexselkirk1704 ( talk) 23:16, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
"Sarge" was a part of the lexicon for many decades and was used as a term of familiarity but it faded out of acceptable use with the advent of the all-volunteer force and increased emphasis on respect for the professional statute of the NCO Corps which led to more formal use of the title Sergeant. Prior to the 1990's, it was also routine to refer to Sergeants, Staff Sergeants, Sergeant First Classes, and Master Sergeants as "Sergeant," but in the last decade or two it's become common for those ranks to be addressed with their full title.-- AzureCitizen ( talk) 07:14, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
"Sarge" is really only used in extremely casual circumstances (ie Out-of-uniform) wherein both persons involved are on friendly terms with one another. This is sometimes also used between veterans/retirees as well, when wanting to recognize former rank while still wanting to maintain an overly casual tone. Also, contrary to AzureCitizen's comment, it is NOT common practice in the United States Army to address a Staff Sergeant or Sergeant First Class by his or her full rank. First Sergeants and Sergeants Major are addressed by their full title, whilst Command Sergeants Major and the Sergeant Major of the Army are simply addressed as "Sergeant Major". Referring to a Non-Commissioned Officer by his or her full rank IS common practice in the United States Marine Corps, however. When introducing ANY member of ANY force to another member of ANY force, it is considered proper procedure to use that servicemember's FULL TITLE. Notably, I am speaking entirely from personal experience, here (Specialist, Medically-retired, 2013). -- 107.7.147.20 ( talk) 13:06, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
The rank insignias need to be recolored for the Army Service Uniform. I am sorry that I am not able to do it myself. JaMikePA ( talk) 23:09, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
I purchased some military documents off eBay, which included Recruiting & Career Counseling Journal from April 1965. The cover shows Revised Insignia and Grade Titles effective 1 Sept 1965. It shows what is now the PFC insignia as lance corporal, which is mentioned in the article. The current sergeant major insignia with star is chief master sergeant, and the current command sergeant major insignia with star and wreath as sergeant major. -- 21lima ( talk) 11:19, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
The abbreviation for Corporal as 'CLP' should be fixed. 65.33.35.154 ( talk) 23:44, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
Beginning with General Order 38 on May 2, 1833 dragoon sergeants wore three , yellow point down, chevrons on the dress coat and corporals two. Dragoon first sergeants wore sergeant's uniforms, including the three chevrons, with a yellow sash. Sergeants major and quartermaster sergeants wore the sash and an aiguillette. The chevrons were not worn on the fatigue jackets. There is no evidence of the addition of chevrons in 1846. They were added to the fatigue jackets in 1847 as they were the only uniform being worn in wartime. The chevrons were yellow for dragoons and riflemen and white for infantry and voltigeurs. The artillery wore yellow except for horse artillery companies that wore red. This did not change the chevrons worn on the dragoon dress coats. There is also no evidence of sergeants major wearing four chevrons. Gghbsab ( talk) 21:21, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
The concept of pay grades was created on June 4, 1920 (41stat761). Prior to that date each rank was created by statute and had its own rate of pay. After that date the army could create whatever ranks it wanted within the seven, and later nine, pay grades. There was no such thing as pay grades prior to that date. All ranks were branch specific prior to 1920 as each branch of the army would have different enlisted ranks. Some, such as sergeant and corporal were used by many branches. Others such as master signal electrician were not. Gghbsab ( talk) 15:01, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
The chevron system of 1821 used yellow chevrons for the artillery and white for the infantry. There were no other enlisted men in the army at that time. The authorized NCO strength of the entire army at that time was 11 sergeants major (4 artillery and 7 infantry), 11 quartermaster sergeants (4 artillery and 7 infantry), 14 principal musicians (all infantry), 354 sergeants (144 artillery and 210 infantry) and 424 corporals (144 artillery and 280 infantry). The system was abolished in 1829. It is not clear what replaced it until 1832. Gghbsab ( talk) 15:34, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
I must question the reference for epaulets from 1779 being form a book about the Lewis and Clark expedition that began in 1804. Gghbsab ( talk) 02:54, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
I think we should also show insignia for the Army Blue Service Uniform, and the Green Insignia that can commonly be seen throughout the internet, to show that the insignia already shown in the article is not the only color insignia, and how different uniforms have different colors for insignia. I also think some viewers might prefer one color of insignia over others and it could be more visually appealing to them, making them want to stay on the article, further educating them on Army Ranks which is what they came for, so it wouldn't hurt to educate them more. What do you guys think? Chewingvanilla ( talk) 01:41, 29 February 2024 (UTC)