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The article describes the United Provinces as if it were modern day Argentina. An attempt to describe it as the forerunner of Uruguay, Northern Argentina, Southern Bolivia etc. was brusquely reverted. The Argentine Constitution of 1853 claims the United Provinces but this is history, not politics. Heck, even the map on this article shows Uruguay etc as part of the United Provinces. 86.4.27.128 ( talk) 19:42, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
The discussion will be held at User talk:86.4.27.128#Argentina, as this topic was raised by this user at several pages at once. Cambalachero ( talk) 19:51, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
1828 - confirming your statement about Paraguay: http://www.mapsofantiquity.com/store/Antique_Maps_of_Latin_America/South_America/South_America./inventory.pl?id=SAM035 http://www.mapsofantiquity.com/store/Antique_Maps_of_Latin_America/South_America/United_Provinces,_Chili_and_Patagonia./inventory.pl?id=SAM038
The situation c. 1829 http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~21831~670064:Chili,-La-Plata,-and-Bolivia-or-Upp?sort=Pub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:Argentina;sort:Pub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=33&trs=201 Be quick though, these maps are all antiques up for sale! 86.4.27.128 ( talk) 12:15, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
Is there any good reason why the title of this article should be half in English and half in Spanish? I am decidedly not of the "this is the English-language Wikipedia so everything must be in English" tendency. Nevertheless, I cannot see why we have to have this half-and-half solution here. "United Provinces of the River Plate" outgoogles "United Provinces of the Río de la Plata" by more than five to one -- and a very large part of the hits for the latter formulation are from Wikipedia itself or from derivatives of this very article under its current title. We don't talk about the "Battle of the Río de la Plata", and the vast majority of English-speakers with historical, cultural, industrial, and residential links to the area have always known the area, as they still do, as that of the River Plate. -- Picapica ( talk) 21:26, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved. EdJohnston ( talk) 12:59, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
United Provinces of the Río de la Plata → United Provinces of the River Plate – Why a bilingual title? As @ Wee Curry Monster: said above, the article was originally created at "United Provinces of the River Plate". The English language name would be preferrable on the en.wikipedia per WP:WEIGHT. 186.6.63.80 ( talk) 21:35, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
RGloucester, your "demonstration" in Ngram was innacurate. First: You've included a diacritical mark in search terms (English speaker really uses "áéíóú´"?). It's not the same. Second: It's too generic, You've searched "Río de", not "Rio de la". My own search. And third: Río de la Plata is not a river (old mistake), is an Estuary.
Personally, English wikipedia could be consistently and Neutral. I don't see Wee Curry Monster good faith claim in Governorate of the Río de la Plata, Viceroyalty of the Río de la Plata, Río de la Plata or Rio de Janeiro. It's curious to see spanglish or porglish title names at "The English Wikipedia". And is curious to see why this article has been renamed in 2006. Now forgotten.
Of course, —Britannica— prefers to write content, not to waste time in language wars.-- GM83 ( talk) 06:36, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved back to stable title – It obvious that’s there is a mixed consensus on this evidence submitted on common name by both those supporting "River Plate" and those supporting "Rio de la Plata" is conflicted and in various ways disputed. All that said, the September RM was poorly attended and the move to "River Plate", although not inconsistent with the positions of the two participants, did change a long standing (2007?-2015) title of Rio de la Plata. No objections to another RM in future months, but it should be whether or not we should change from a long-standing title to a new one Wikipedia:TITLECHANGES (Rio de la Plata >> River Plate) not the other way round. Mike Cline ( talk) 12:11, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
United Provinces of the River Plate →
United Provinces of the Río de la Plata –
WP:MODERNPLACENAME
WP:COMMONNAME.
Google Books: United Provinces of the Río de la Plata search: 4,400 results, United Provinces of the River Plate search: 2,120 results.
U.S Library of Congress search, Encyclopædia Britannica map
Teatry between Great Britain and United Provinces of Rio de la Plata, 1825
Rio de la Plata gov.uk search: 3,280 results River Plate gov.uk search: 228 results?
United Provinces supersedes Viceroyalty of the Río de la Plata (1776) and earlier Governorate of the Río de la Plata (1549) in the Spanish Empire (Estuary and rivers explored by Sebastian Cabot in 1526). Wikipedia uses "Rio de la Plata" when it was from Spanish Empire but changes name to federation that existed for twenty years?. Sir Francis Drake named "River Plate" during his circumnavigation of the world (1580 = WP:MODERNPLACENAME ?). Wikipedia had discussions about "The River Plate" vs. "Rio de la Plata", resulting in two polls, closing as "Rio de la Plata". "While some people may see this as against the "use English" policy, the overwhelming majority view is that the commonly-used named for this river, and thus the correct one to use given the "use common names" policy, is Río de la Plata." (28 January 2006). Polytoop ( talk) 09:23, 9 November 2015 (UTC) --Relisted. George Ho ( talk) 02:53, 17 November 2015 (UTC) Relisted. Biblio worm 22:01, 11 December 2015 (UTC)--Relisted. Tiggerjay ( talk) 22:22, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
User:Wee Curry Monster, please note that ngrams doesn't work that way. Quotes are not needed, nor used as you think. Try it out and see how it works. Dicklyon ( talk) 20:32, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
PS for those suggesting you can't use parentheses in Ngrams, I suggest you read up on the advances uses - you can. W C M email 13:37, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
User:Havsjö has said reverted my edit of the United Provinces' flag, claiming that the flag of the United Provinces of the Rio de la Plata that is in this article has to be the one from 1820-1829, yet the flag that it's shown is the current flag of Argentina. I have to say that according to [14] and [15] the civil flag is the 1812-1818 Flag of Macha and that the war flag is a version of the current flag with different dimentions; meaning that the flag used in that time was the Flag of Mancha. I request that the flag be changed to [16] or the war flag of 1820-1829 Shrek 5 the divorce ( talk) 22:36, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
United Provinces of the Río de la Plata article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1Auto-archiving period: 90 days
![]() |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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The article describes the United Provinces as if it were modern day Argentina. An attempt to describe it as the forerunner of Uruguay, Northern Argentina, Southern Bolivia etc. was brusquely reverted. The Argentine Constitution of 1853 claims the United Provinces but this is history, not politics. Heck, even the map on this article shows Uruguay etc as part of the United Provinces. 86.4.27.128 ( talk) 19:42, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
The discussion will be held at User talk:86.4.27.128#Argentina, as this topic was raised by this user at several pages at once. Cambalachero ( talk) 19:51, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
1828 - confirming your statement about Paraguay: http://www.mapsofantiquity.com/store/Antique_Maps_of_Latin_America/South_America/South_America./inventory.pl?id=SAM035 http://www.mapsofantiquity.com/store/Antique_Maps_of_Latin_America/South_America/United_Provinces,_Chili_and_Patagonia./inventory.pl?id=SAM038
The situation c. 1829 http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~21831~670064:Chili,-La-Plata,-and-Bolivia-or-Upp?sort=Pub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:Argentina;sort:Pub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=33&trs=201 Be quick though, these maps are all antiques up for sale! 86.4.27.128 ( talk) 12:15, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
Is there any good reason why the title of this article should be half in English and half in Spanish? I am decidedly not of the "this is the English-language Wikipedia so everything must be in English" tendency. Nevertheless, I cannot see why we have to have this half-and-half solution here. "United Provinces of the River Plate" outgoogles "United Provinces of the Río de la Plata" by more than five to one -- and a very large part of the hits for the latter formulation are from Wikipedia itself or from derivatives of this very article under its current title. We don't talk about the "Battle of the Río de la Plata", and the vast majority of English-speakers with historical, cultural, industrial, and residential links to the area have always known the area, as they still do, as that of the River Plate. -- Picapica ( talk) 21:26, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved. EdJohnston ( talk) 12:59, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
United Provinces of the Río de la Plata → United Provinces of the River Plate – Why a bilingual title? As @ Wee Curry Monster: said above, the article was originally created at "United Provinces of the River Plate". The English language name would be preferrable on the en.wikipedia per WP:WEIGHT. 186.6.63.80 ( talk) 21:35, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
RGloucester, your "demonstration" in Ngram was innacurate. First: You've included a diacritical mark in search terms (English speaker really uses "áéíóú´"?). It's not the same. Second: It's too generic, You've searched "Río de", not "Rio de la". My own search. And third: Río de la Plata is not a river (old mistake), is an Estuary.
Personally, English wikipedia could be consistently and Neutral. I don't see Wee Curry Monster good faith claim in Governorate of the Río de la Plata, Viceroyalty of the Río de la Plata, Río de la Plata or Rio de Janeiro. It's curious to see spanglish or porglish title names at "The English Wikipedia". And is curious to see why this article has been renamed in 2006. Now forgotten.
Of course, —Britannica— prefers to write content, not to waste time in language wars.-- GM83 ( talk) 06:36, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved back to stable title – It obvious that’s there is a mixed consensus on this evidence submitted on common name by both those supporting "River Plate" and those supporting "Rio de la Plata" is conflicted and in various ways disputed. All that said, the September RM was poorly attended and the move to "River Plate", although not inconsistent with the positions of the two participants, did change a long standing (2007?-2015) title of Rio de la Plata. No objections to another RM in future months, but it should be whether or not we should change from a long-standing title to a new one Wikipedia:TITLECHANGES (Rio de la Plata >> River Plate) not the other way round. Mike Cline ( talk) 12:11, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
United Provinces of the River Plate →
United Provinces of the Río de la Plata –
WP:MODERNPLACENAME
WP:COMMONNAME.
Google Books: United Provinces of the Río de la Plata search: 4,400 results, United Provinces of the River Plate search: 2,120 results.
U.S Library of Congress search, Encyclopædia Britannica map
Teatry between Great Britain and United Provinces of Rio de la Plata, 1825
Rio de la Plata gov.uk search: 3,280 results River Plate gov.uk search: 228 results?
United Provinces supersedes Viceroyalty of the Río de la Plata (1776) and earlier Governorate of the Río de la Plata (1549) in the Spanish Empire (Estuary and rivers explored by Sebastian Cabot in 1526). Wikipedia uses "Rio de la Plata" when it was from Spanish Empire but changes name to federation that existed for twenty years?. Sir Francis Drake named "River Plate" during his circumnavigation of the world (1580 = WP:MODERNPLACENAME ?). Wikipedia had discussions about "The River Plate" vs. "Rio de la Plata", resulting in two polls, closing as "Rio de la Plata". "While some people may see this as against the "use English" policy, the overwhelming majority view is that the commonly-used named for this river, and thus the correct one to use given the "use common names" policy, is Río de la Plata." (28 January 2006). Polytoop ( talk) 09:23, 9 November 2015 (UTC) --Relisted. George Ho ( talk) 02:53, 17 November 2015 (UTC) Relisted. Biblio worm 22:01, 11 December 2015 (UTC)--Relisted. Tiggerjay ( talk) 22:22, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
User:Wee Curry Monster, please note that ngrams doesn't work that way. Quotes are not needed, nor used as you think. Try it out and see how it works. Dicklyon ( talk) 20:32, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
PS for those suggesting you can't use parentheses in Ngrams, I suggest you read up on the advances uses - you can. W C M email 13:37, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
User:Havsjö has said reverted my edit of the United Provinces' flag, claiming that the flag of the United Provinces of the Rio de la Plata that is in this article has to be the one from 1820-1829, yet the flag that it's shown is the current flag of Argentina. I have to say that according to [14] and [15] the civil flag is the 1812-1818 Flag of Macha and that the war flag is a version of the current flag with different dimentions; meaning that the flag used in that time was the Flag of Mancha. I request that the flag be changed to [16] or the war flag of 1820-1829 Shrek 5 the divorce ( talk) 22:36, 11 July 2019 (UTC)