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I have two problems with this sentence: "A police officer said that most of the protesters came from interstate."
I had proposed "came from other states", but that was reverted without any explanation.
I have an idea: why don't we write this so that non-Australians readers don't have to click through to Wiktionary, i.e., choose a construction that is self-explanatory, instead of insisting on an Australianism? Ground Zero | t 12:31, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
Can UPF be considered a political party if they are unregistered as such? I think the references to political parties should be removed until they actualy are one, if that ever happes. I'll leave the section referring to plans to launch fortitude, but I'm changing the other information. Panglossx ( talk) 11:38, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
i updated updated these issues as i mentioned the other day, and also updated the infobox from political party to one more appropriate. used the al-Quaida infobox as a sort of template, gets the relevant information in, and works easier on the page. and makes more sense. Panglossx ( talk) 06:27, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
not really much difference hahahaha sigh...
maybe i should have used the ISIS wiki as a template? both mobs are terrorists and/or extremists, just from different places and with different accents.14:34, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
Panglossx (
talk)
Created section today, still working on it, but anybody that wants to help with clean-up and formatting please jump on board... I'm still better at the research end of things and learning how to make things fit into the wikipedia style. WIll be more soon where necessary or appropriate. CHeers Panglossx ( talk) 06:25, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
Until the UPF itself claims it is a neo-nazi group, this statement should be withdrawn. As I have said, the views of an individual does not reflect the group as a whole. Burklemore1 ( talk) 01:47, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
To be honest, the actual details you changed were all pretty reasonable, and the edits you made were much welcomed, I've just beeen a bit over-sensitive to change here due to the vandalism in the past (by both pro-UPF and anti-UPF types). Thanks also for pointing out the categories that were designed for individuals instead of groups. Reading your latest comments here in particular, you make a great case as to why the information, if relevant, is presented wrongly anyway. There is a page for Blair Cottrell himself, which is obviously a more appropriate place for information pertaining to him and not the group as a whole. You have my apologies, particularly for the knee-jerk assumption that you were editing to suit your own personal views or support of the group. And, really thanks again for the visual editing of the page, looks much better. Panglossx ( talk) 12:20, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
I can come out and personally claim not to be a human, that doesn't make it so. The UPF claiming to be something doesn't make it so. Likewise, I can claim to be a penguin from mars, and wikipedia articles will still be edited to include the reference information from reputable 3rd party sources rather than relying on my blog or business website and taking my personal claims as concrete truth. But, while we have an article showing the leader of an organisation (an far-right organisation whose main focus is race/religion/culture/nationality) identifying as a supporter of National Socialism, it is safer to include such links in the name of transparency and fullness of information. Removing it would seem like an attempt to obfuscate certain details to change/improve the image of UPF directly contrary to the printed evidence at hand. I'm putting the information back in. Panglossx ( talk) 22:34, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
At the very least they are associated with neo-Nazi's and several members including their leader, Blair Cottrell have explicitly expressed support for Nazism online. This is undeniable fact, online posts and interviews demonstrate this and it's been documented by mainstream media. The group endorsed the Golden Dawn and Cottrell wanted Hitler's portrait hung in all Australian class rooms FFS! "There should be a picture of this man in every classroom and every school, and his book should be issued to every student annually." - Blair Cottrell
- https://books.google.com/books?id=lKvODgAAQBAJ&pg=PT180
There's plenty more articles like this - it's not really debatable.
I removed all of those names except for Blair Cottrell from the info box leaders section. That was way to excessive and no other political organisation lists lists its leaders like that on Wikipedia. This also isn't an advertising platform for Cottrell and his pack of inbred mates to circlejerk around.
Also added neo nazism back into the info box as they openly empouse such views, as much as Cottrell or whomever of his inbred mates or otherwise say. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.147.165.88 ( talk) 07:03, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
Gott mit uns. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
206.255.232.142 (
talk) 15:17, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
It has been suggested that the two pages be megre, I am personally in full support of this suggestion. I barely think that the UPF is relevant enough in the long term to warrant inclusion in wikipedia, but Blair Cottrell himself is just a nobody, he is not really relevent outside of the group, and as a known practitioner of hate-speech, it is not really appropriate to let him and his supporters use wikipedia as a platform to further their own interests or promote their own beliefs. As such I believe a much condensed form of the COttrell article could be slipped into the UPf article and then the original UPF article should probably be discussed and analyzed for relevance. It may be that neither of the articles really need to exist anyway.. Just my 2c worth, I hope this is in the right place. I am not necessarily an advanced enough user to do the merger myself, don't have the skillz. Panglossx ( talk) 10:16, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
@orthogonal - thumbs up man. thanks for your work. :) Panglossx ( talk) 13:50, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
I propose merging Australia First Party, National Action, Reclaim Australia, True Blue Crew, United Patriots Front etc into one page covering minor far-right groups in Australia, I really don't think that these groups warrant entire articles, many of them are made up of less than half a dozen members. The groups often only make the news because of vulgar stunts, they are not noteworthy by any measure, many are just blokes ranting on YouTube or even less noteworthy. Bacondrum ( talk) 07:14, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi @ Bacondrum:. I did a bit of a tidy as I added an item under the 2019 heading, but think that there are still just too many words about the egging incident here. The focus should stay on the UPF thugs' actions, and I don't see the need to provide the long quote from Anning. Much of that can go into the egg incident article and/or the Fraser Anning one - the focus should be on UPF here, and too much text can put off people reading to the end. (If enough is removed, it could perhaps all be in one paragraph, and remove those section headings I added?) Laterthanyouthink ( talk) 06:01, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
I propose adding the Nazism and Antisemitism catagory sidebars. I think the fact that this is a neo-Nazi antisemeitic group is well established now, and has been for a while. I'm certain that the saint will object, but the evidence is overwhelming. As I wrote in the lede: Erikson has admitted to being a neo-Nazi and was convicted of stalking a Rabbi. Cottrell has called for a portrait of Adolf Hitler to be hung in all Australian classrooms and for copies of Mein Kampf to be "issued annually" to students. In 2015 the two leaders were documented surreptitiously discussing Jewish conspiracy theories and "the Jewish problem" with Erikson stating that "My personal opinion is stick to the Muslim shit and Cultural Marxism for max support do Jews later you don't need to show your full hand," Cottrell replied, saying that it was his "current attitude as well. It will take years to prepare for the Jewish problem. If any of us came out with it now we would be slaughtered by public opinion." I believe it is time to stop the obfuscation around clear and established facts regarding the nature of this group here. Bacondrum ( talk) 00:32, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
@ GenerationCurrent2015: - please discuss here if you want to double-revert. You removed an illustration without an edit summary earlier, which I reverted for that reason. You have just undone my reversion with an explanation that doesn't make sense to me. The illustration appears to be apt for the section, showing a poster put up in protest against the Lads Society. Can you please explain which WP rule supports the removal of the illustration (which btw was not added by me originally)? Laterthanyouthink ( talk) 13:23, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
I fail to understand what the objective is behind merging the pages dedicated to Blair Cottrell, the UPF and the Lads Society into a single article with a title specifically pertaining only to one of the above. I would assert that they are closely intertwined but fundamentally separable subjects, better served by a series of articles with a small portal or side-directory (forgive me if this isn't the correct term; I'm new to editing Wikipedia) linking them together.
Regardless of one's opinion of the man, Blair Cottrell is at least a peripheral public figure, and has been sufficiently relevant to public discourse in his own right to merit a separate article. Many of the views he has expressed at various points are not necessarily reflected in the rhetoric or (at least, outwardly presented) attitudes of the organisations in which he has taken part, and it is seemingly unprofessional to treat him and such organisations as a singular monolith. Moreover, I would note that Blair Cottrell is in no sense a leader of Lads Society, and has not been for some time (although at an earlier point, it is clear that he was certainly associated with the organisation in what was perhaps a figurehead role).
More importantly, the structure, operating model and leadership of the Lads Society and its predecessor the UPF are quite different - firstly, Neil Erikson and Shermon Burgess (both leadership figures of the now-defunct UPF, and listed as leaders on this page) are not even members of the Lads Society, far from being leaders. As I already mentioned, it would also be incorrect to list Cottrell as a leader for the Lads Society. The Lads Society is quite openly run by Tom Sewell, as many articles both friendly and hostile to the Lads Society will attest - Sewell hardly receives a mention in the entire article, which is still clearly the hastily-relabelled UPF page.
Regarding this talk page, there appears to be a clear desire that this entry should reflect the tone of an editorial opinion piece - I would strongly caution against attempting to use Wikipedia as a venue for political partisanship on philosophical grounds. Bias shows, and the credibility of the entire Wikipedia project is diminished by its presence. Neoplatonism is fkn sik ( talk) 13:32, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
So, I've separated them out if you folks wanna have a look at them, they still need a lot of work. Bacondrum ( talk) 00:50, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
I've not got time to get into this, but it's certainly noteworthy: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/12/australian-white-nationalists-reveal-plans-to-recruit-disgruntled-white-male-population
![]() | This article was nominated for
deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:
|
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | The contents of the Blair Cottrell page were merged into United Patriots Front. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
I have two problems with this sentence: "A police officer said that most of the protesters came from interstate."
I had proposed "came from other states", but that was reverted without any explanation.
I have an idea: why don't we write this so that non-Australians readers don't have to click through to Wiktionary, i.e., choose a construction that is self-explanatory, instead of insisting on an Australianism? Ground Zero | t 12:31, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
Can UPF be considered a political party if they are unregistered as such? I think the references to political parties should be removed until they actualy are one, if that ever happes. I'll leave the section referring to plans to launch fortitude, but I'm changing the other information. Panglossx ( talk) 11:38, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
i updated updated these issues as i mentioned the other day, and also updated the infobox from political party to one more appropriate. used the al-Quaida infobox as a sort of template, gets the relevant information in, and works easier on the page. and makes more sense. Panglossx ( talk) 06:27, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
not really much difference hahahaha sigh...
maybe i should have used the ISIS wiki as a template? both mobs are terrorists and/or extremists, just from different places and with different accents.14:34, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
Panglossx (
talk)
Created section today, still working on it, but anybody that wants to help with clean-up and formatting please jump on board... I'm still better at the research end of things and learning how to make things fit into the wikipedia style. WIll be more soon where necessary or appropriate. CHeers Panglossx ( talk) 06:25, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
Until the UPF itself claims it is a neo-nazi group, this statement should be withdrawn. As I have said, the views of an individual does not reflect the group as a whole. Burklemore1 ( talk) 01:47, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
To be honest, the actual details you changed were all pretty reasonable, and the edits you made were much welcomed, I've just beeen a bit over-sensitive to change here due to the vandalism in the past (by both pro-UPF and anti-UPF types). Thanks also for pointing out the categories that were designed for individuals instead of groups. Reading your latest comments here in particular, you make a great case as to why the information, if relevant, is presented wrongly anyway. There is a page for Blair Cottrell himself, which is obviously a more appropriate place for information pertaining to him and not the group as a whole. You have my apologies, particularly for the knee-jerk assumption that you were editing to suit your own personal views or support of the group. And, really thanks again for the visual editing of the page, looks much better. Panglossx ( talk) 12:20, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
I can come out and personally claim not to be a human, that doesn't make it so. The UPF claiming to be something doesn't make it so. Likewise, I can claim to be a penguin from mars, and wikipedia articles will still be edited to include the reference information from reputable 3rd party sources rather than relying on my blog or business website and taking my personal claims as concrete truth. But, while we have an article showing the leader of an organisation (an far-right organisation whose main focus is race/religion/culture/nationality) identifying as a supporter of National Socialism, it is safer to include such links in the name of transparency and fullness of information. Removing it would seem like an attempt to obfuscate certain details to change/improve the image of UPF directly contrary to the printed evidence at hand. I'm putting the information back in. Panglossx ( talk) 22:34, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
At the very least they are associated with neo-Nazi's and several members including their leader, Blair Cottrell have explicitly expressed support for Nazism online. This is undeniable fact, online posts and interviews demonstrate this and it's been documented by mainstream media. The group endorsed the Golden Dawn and Cottrell wanted Hitler's portrait hung in all Australian class rooms FFS! "There should be a picture of this man in every classroom and every school, and his book should be issued to every student annually." - Blair Cottrell
- https://books.google.com/books?id=lKvODgAAQBAJ&pg=PT180
There's plenty more articles like this - it's not really debatable.
I removed all of those names except for Blair Cottrell from the info box leaders section. That was way to excessive and no other political organisation lists lists its leaders like that on Wikipedia. This also isn't an advertising platform for Cottrell and his pack of inbred mates to circlejerk around.
Also added neo nazism back into the info box as they openly empouse such views, as much as Cottrell or whomever of his inbred mates or otherwise say. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.147.165.88 ( talk) 07:03, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
Gott mit uns. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
206.255.232.142 (
talk) 15:17, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
It has been suggested that the two pages be megre, I am personally in full support of this suggestion. I barely think that the UPF is relevant enough in the long term to warrant inclusion in wikipedia, but Blair Cottrell himself is just a nobody, he is not really relevent outside of the group, and as a known practitioner of hate-speech, it is not really appropriate to let him and his supporters use wikipedia as a platform to further their own interests or promote their own beliefs. As such I believe a much condensed form of the COttrell article could be slipped into the UPf article and then the original UPF article should probably be discussed and analyzed for relevance. It may be that neither of the articles really need to exist anyway.. Just my 2c worth, I hope this is in the right place. I am not necessarily an advanced enough user to do the merger myself, don't have the skillz. Panglossx ( talk) 10:16, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
@orthogonal - thumbs up man. thanks for your work. :) Panglossx ( talk) 13:50, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
I propose merging Australia First Party, National Action, Reclaim Australia, True Blue Crew, United Patriots Front etc into one page covering minor far-right groups in Australia, I really don't think that these groups warrant entire articles, many of them are made up of less than half a dozen members. The groups often only make the news because of vulgar stunts, they are not noteworthy by any measure, many are just blokes ranting on YouTube or even less noteworthy. Bacondrum ( talk) 07:14, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi @ Bacondrum:. I did a bit of a tidy as I added an item under the 2019 heading, but think that there are still just too many words about the egging incident here. The focus should stay on the UPF thugs' actions, and I don't see the need to provide the long quote from Anning. Much of that can go into the egg incident article and/or the Fraser Anning one - the focus should be on UPF here, and too much text can put off people reading to the end. (If enough is removed, it could perhaps all be in one paragraph, and remove those section headings I added?) Laterthanyouthink ( talk) 06:01, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
I propose adding the Nazism and Antisemitism catagory sidebars. I think the fact that this is a neo-Nazi antisemeitic group is well established now, and has been for a while. I'm certain that the saint will object, but the evidence is overwhelming. As I wrote in the lede: Erikson has admitted to being a neo-Nazi and was convicted of stalking a Rabbi. Cottrell has called for a portrait of Adolf Hitler to be hung in all Australian classrooms and for copies of Mein Kampf to be "issued annually" to students. In 2015 the two leaders were documented surreptitiously discussing Jewish conspiracy theories and "the Jewish problem" with Erikson stating that "My personal opinion is stick to the Muslim shit and Cultural Marxism for max support do Jews later you don't need to show your full hand," Cottrell replied, saying that it was his "current attitude as well. It will take years to prepare for the Jewish problem. If any of us came out with it now we would be slaughtered by public opinion." I believe it is time to stop the obfuscation around clear and established facts regarding the nature of this group here. Bacondrum ( talk) 00:32, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
@ GenerationCurrent2015: - please discuss here if you want to double-revert. You removed an illustration without an edit summary earlier, which I reverted for that reason. You have just undone my reversion with an explanation that doesn't make sense to me. The illustration appears to be apt for the section, showing a poster put up in protest against the Lads Society. Can you please explain which WP rule supports the removal of the illustration (which btw was not added by me originally)? Laterthanyouthink ( talk) 13:23, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
I fail to understand what the objective is behind merging the pages dedicated to Blair Cottrell, the UPF and the Lads Society into a single article with a title specifically pertaining only to one of the above. I would assert that they are closely intertwined but fundamentally separable subjects, better served by a series of articles with a small portal or side-directory (forgive me if this isn't the correct term; I'm new to editing Wikipedia) linking them together.
Regardless of one's opinion of the man, Blair Cottrell is at least a peripheral public figure, and has been sufficiently relevant to public discourse in his own right to merit a separate article. Many of the views he has expressed at various points are not necessarily reflected in the rhetoric or (at least, outwardly presented) attitudes of the organisations in which he has taken part, and it is seemingly unprofessional to treat him and such organisations as a singular monolith. Moreover, I would note that Blair Cottrell is in no sense a leader of Lads Society, and has not been for some time (although at an earlier point, it is clear that he was certainly associated with the organisation in what was perhaps a figurehead role).
More importantly, the structure, operating model and leadership of the Lads Society and its predecessor the UPF are quite different - firstly, Neil Erikson and Shermon Burgess (both leadership figures of the now-defunct UPF, and listed as leaders on this page) are not even members of the Lads Society, far from being leaders. As I already mentioned, it would also be incorrect to list Cottrell as a leader for the Lads Society. The Lads Society is quite openly run by Tom Sewell, as many articles both friendly and hostile to the Lads Society will attest - Sewell hardly receives a mention in the entire article, which is still clearly the hastily-relabelled UPF page.
Regarding this talk page, there appears to be a clear desire that this entry should reflect the tone of an editorial opinion piece - I would strongly caution against attempting to use Wikipedia as a venue for political partisanship on philosophical grounds. Bias shows, and the credibility of the entire Wikipedia project is diminished by its presence. Neoplatonism is fkn sik ( talk) 13:32, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
So, I've separated them out if you folks wanna have a look at them, they still need a lot of work. Bacondrum ( talk) 00:50, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
I've not got time to get into this, but it's certainly noteworthy: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/12/australian-white-nationalists-reveal-plans-to-recruit-disgruntled-white-male-population