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I was reading else where that Gadara, Gerasa and Gergesa were all disguises for Caesarea, the location where the actual events may have taken place. check out legion (demon) --ciyean
I copied most of the text under Umm Qais#The miracle to Legion (demon). I propose that this paragraph is summarized here including a link to the Legion article. -- 84.20.17.84 16:50, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
While this is an excellent page in many ways, largely from the ISBE, I see one major problem and one misrepresentation.
First look at these two contradictory statements.
"The Greek city of Gadara, was considered to belong to the larger region of Gerasa, though it still retained some local autonomy (Weber 1989: 9)."
"It may be taken as certain that the jurisdiction of Gadara, as the chief city in these regions, extended over the country East of the Sea, including the lands of the subordinate town, Gerasa."
The first statement could not relate to the Gadara of the article. Conceivably to the second Gadara, which was southwest of Gerasa. http://www.bible-history.com/geography/ancient-israel/gergesa.html However even that should have some primary reference to be accepted, and/or a quote or more precise info from Weber. (The larger region was the Decapolis, not Gerasa.)
The second statement is simply wrong. A lot of misinformation has been written about Gadara and Gerasa, often to shore up the strange textual reading in the Alexandrian text behind the modern versions (Gerasa, far from the Sea of Galilee).
Which leads to the other problem, simply parrotting the alexandrian minority textual view of the ISBE editors.
"(NOTE - The Textus Receptus of the New Testament reading. τῶν Γεργεσηνῶν, tṓn Gergesēnṓn, “of the Gergesenes”, must be rejected (Westcott-Hort, II. App., 11).)"
This is only textual propaganda against the historic majority text (the majority text also works geographically, while the Alexandrian text is errant).
Praxeus 16:40, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
That bible-history.com map seems plain wrong in indicating two Gadaras. The more southern one is the mistake. All the accompanying text only refers to the northern, Umm Qais location. Theoretically, if "Gadara" is derived from the Semitic root for fence, I can imagine several places with boundaries marked by some kind of wall or fence getting this name, but that's a simple speculation. Until a good source proves the contrary, there's only one Gadara in the Decapolis and the region around it. Arminden ( talk) 08:55, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
Any particular reason the cities name is given in Hebrew? Is there some connection to Israel or the Hebrew Bible or is it just a matter of proximity? Avraham ( talk) 09:53, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
While this article is about the historic ruins, there's also a present-day, very much inhabited town of Umm Qais, Jordan, immediately south of the ruins. Shouldn't this article be under Umm Qais ruins (currently a redirect to this), and the ruins have a separate article? Daniel Case ( talk) 06:23, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Actually, since we don't even lose a word about modern Umm Qais, we might as well call the article "Gadara" or "Gadara (Decapolis)" and use Umm Qais/Qays as redirects. Right now it's a bit of a swindle. Arminden ( talk) 11:20, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
I'm not saying the guy didn't turn the city into a member of the Decapolis on his own... but I personally doubt it and that idea needs a citation. — LlywelynII 11:45, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
@
Davidbena: Hi David. I have removed the unsourced and very confusing paragraph - it's here for safekeeping:
"A different town called "Gader" [
sic] is referred to in the
Jerusalem Talmud (Erubin 5:7) and the
Tosefta (Erubin 6:13) within a Sabbath day's walking distance from
Hamath, a town situated within one
biblical mile to the south of
Tiberias."
So, without source and local knowledge, this becomes a misleading piece of wrong info. Once it's fixed, it deserves a *separate* paragraph, since it's not part of Umm Qais' description or history. Maybe it fits under "Location". Cheers, Arminden ( talk) 08:45, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
David, things are perfectly clear as long as the Talmud does not say one of 2 things: a) that Gadara (Umm Qais) is within a Sabbath's walk of its spa, 'cause 4-5km might surpass any definition of biblical mile, and b) that the two pairs are a biblical mile away FROM EACH OTHER. Apart from that, one pair (Tiberias and Hamat Tiberias) fits in perfectly, and the other one (Gadara and Hamat Gader) is in the same region and the city is also very close to its spa suburb (Gadara up the hill, Hamat Gader rigt below in the Yarmuk Valley).
On the Christian side of things,
Emmaus, being nothing but Hamat in Graeco-Roman dress, created at least as much headache, 'cause there were so many of them. Lots of Hamat, quite a few Gadaras too :)
Arminden (
talk) 15:52, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
There were at least 3 Hellenised cities of Gadara/Gadaris in the S Levant: this, Gadara in
Peraea (SW of Gerasa/
Jarash), and
Gezer. All data placed here for which the source is either missing, not online, or not clear on which Gadara it's about, cannot be used in good faith.
Re. the various luminaries: several are quoted from Strabo, who very clearly refers to Gadara/
Gezer (see quotation & discussion
here):
We need carefully researched sources to avoid serious confusion in LOTS of related articles. Cheers, Arminden ( talk) 13:38, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
@ Daniel Case, Marcocapelle, LlywelynII, and Doug Weller: hi. We need to rename the article "Gadara" or "Gadara (Decapolis)":
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I was reading else where that Gadara, Gerasa and Gergesa were all disguises for Caesarea, the location where the actual events may have taken place. check out legion (demon) --ciyean
I copied most of the text under Umm Qais#The miracle to Legion (demon). I propose that this paragraph is summarized here including a link to the Legion article. -- 84.20.17.84 16:50, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
While this is an excellent page in many ways, largely from the ISBE, I see one major problem and one misrepresentation.
First look at these two contradictory statements.
"The Greek city of Gadara, was considered to belong to the larger region of Gerasa, though it still retained some local autonomy (Weber 1989: 9)."
"It may be taken as certain that the jurisdiction of Gadara, as the chief city in these regions, extended over the country East of the Sea, including the lands of the subordinate town, Gerasa."
The first statement could not relate to the Gadara of the article. Conceivably to the second Gadara, which was southwest of Gerasa. http://www.bible-history.com/geography/ancient-israel/gergesa.html However even that should have some primary reference to be accepted, and/or a quote or more precise info from Weber. (The larger region was the Decapolis, not Gerasa.)
The second statement is simply wrong. A lot of misinformation has been written about Gadara and Gerasa, often to shore up the strange textual reading in the Alexandrian text behind the modern versions (Gerasa, far from the Sea of Galilee).
Which leads to the other problem, simply parrotting the alexandrian minority textual view of the ISBE editors.
"(NOTE - The Textus Receptus of the New Testament reading. τῶν Γεργεσηνῶν, tṓn Gergesēnṓn, “of the Gergesenes”, must be rejected (Westcott-Hort, II. App., 11).)"
This is only textual propaganda against the historic majority text (the majority text also works geographically, while the Alexandrian text is errant).
Praxeus 16:40, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
That bible-history.com map seems plain wrong in indicating two Gadaras. The more southern one is the mistake. All the accompanying text only refers to the northern, Umm Qais location. Theoretically, if "Gadara" is derived from the Semitic root for fence, I can imagine several places with boundaries marked by some kind of wall or fence getting this name, but that's a simple speculation. Until a good source proves the contrary, there's only one Gadara in the Decapolis and the region around it. Arminden ( talk) 08:55, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
Any particular reason the cities name is given in Hebrew? Is there some connection to Israel or the Hebrew Bible or is it just a matter of proximity? Avraham ( talk) 09:53, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
While this article is about the historic ruins, there's also a present-day, very much inhabited town of Umm Qais, Jordan, immediately south of the ruins. Shouldn't this article be under Umm Qais ruins (currently a redirect to this), and the ruins have a separate article? Daniel Case ( talk) 06:23, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Actually, since we don't even lose a word about modern Umm Qais, we might as well call the article "Gadara" or "Gadara (Decapolis)" and use Umm Qais/Qays as redirects. Right now it's a bit of a swindle. Arminden ( talk) 11:20, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
I'm not saying the guy didn't turn the city into a member of the Decapolis on his own... but I personally doubt it and that idea needs a citation. — LlywelynII 11:45, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
@
Davidbena: Hi David. I have removed the unsourced and very confusing paragraph - it's here for safekeeping:
"A different town called "Gader" [
sic] is referred to in the
Jerusalem Talmud (Erubin 5:7) and the
Tosefta (Erubin 6:13) within a Sabbath day's walking distance from
Hamath, a town situated within one
biblical mile to the south of
Tiberias."
So, without source and local knowledge, this becomes a misleading piece of wrong info. Once it's fixed, it deserves a *separate* paragraph, since it's not part of Umm Qais' description or history. Maybe it fits under "Location". Cheers, Arminden ( talk) 08:45, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
David, things are perfectly clear as long as the Talmud does not say one of 2 things: a) that Gadara (Umm Qais) is within a Sabbath's walk of its spa, 'cause 4-5km might surpass any definition of biblical mile, and b) that the two pairs are a biblical mile away FROM EACH OTHER. Apart from that, one pair (Tiberias and Hamat Tiberias) fits in perfectly, and the other one (Gadara and Hamat Gader) is in the same region and the city is also very close to its spa suburb (Gadara up the hill, Hamat Gader rigt below in the Yarmuk Valley).
On the Christian side of things,
Emmaus, being nothing but Hamat in Graeco-Roman dress, created at least as much headache, 'cause there were so many of them. Lots of Hamat, quite a few Gadaras too :)
Arminden (
talk) 15:52, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
There were at least 3 Hellenised cities of Gadara/Gadaris in the S Levant: this, Gadara in
Peraea (SW of Gerasa/
Jarash), and
Gezer. All data placed here for which the source is either missing, not online, or not clear on which Gadara it's about, cannot be used in good faith.
Re. the various luminaries: several are quoted from Strabo, who very clearly refers to Gadara/
Gezer (see quotation & discussion
here):
We need carefully researched sources to avoid serious confusion in LOTS of related articles. Cheers, Arminden ( talk) 13:38, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
@ Daniel Case, Marcocapelle, LlywelynII, and Doug Weller: hi. We need to rename the article "Gadara" or "Gadara (Decapolis)":