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I want to invite any Wikipedia user who stumbles across this page to leave a note at my user page. I'm learning Ubykh, but it's an extremely slow process, so if there's anyone else out there in Wiki-land who'd like to help, or to learn it themselves, please let me know. thefamouseccles 23:17 September 10, 2003 (UTC)
I noticed, while creating the SAMPA version of the consonant chart, that the introduction states that there are 83 consonants in the inventory, but the chart only lists 71. Which is correct? I assume that, at the very least, / ’ / (glottal stop) is missing. (Then again, Korean also has ejectives with no glottal stop phoneme.) pgdudda 01:39 Apr 30, 2003 (UTC)
My apologies - I was the one who wrote this article. You have made a good point - a few series of labialised consonants are missing from this chart. You assume correctly that glottal stop is missing; it is only an allophone of q' in Ubykh, and is not present phonemically. The phoneme chart in Ubykh language should now contain the 81 consonant phonemes; the vowels remain the same. There are no alveolar labialised fricatives, these having merged with the alveolopalatal labialised fricatives. Thanks for pointing out my error. thefamouseccles 22:53 May 8, 2003 (GMT)
My apologies again; after reviewing the Ubykh phonetic chart in Bernard Comrie's Languages Of The Soviet Union, it would appear that I inserted two phonemes where none exist (the alveolar labialised fricatives I posited have merged with the alveolopalatal labialised fricatives), and omitted three which do (labialised alveolar stops). This has been changed in the Ubykh language article, now reflecting the 83 consonant phonemes that Ubykh has. thefamouseccles 01:42 May 16, 2003 (GMT)
Hi. i stumbled & fell & dropped you this link:
http://email.eva.mpg.de/~vandenbe/Mekegi.html
in case you, havent been there before. (the author is sadly no longer with us.)
- peace
Ish ishwar 02:13, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
It seems phonetic [brackets] and phonemic /slashes/ are mixed up in this article. BenctPhilipJonsson 21:23, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Noticed Päkhy in the refs. Does the person who added the ref know the material? I've only heard that Päkhy was spoken far to the west of the other Caucasic languages, but it appears from wikipedia that it was a local name for Ubykh. Was the Päkhy community in western Anatolia a "recent" (post-Ottoman conquest or post Russian-conquest) emigre population of Ubykh, or did they have a long history in the region? kwami 02:33, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the info. It's been several years, and I no longer remember where I came across the word. The context, however, seemed to give Pakhy as evidence that the Caucasic languages were originally more widespread than their current extent, which you've laid to rest. (Though they presumably were, of course, from other evidence.) kwami 01:53, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
Perhaps the bulk of the Phonetics section should be moved to the Ubykh phonology page? Jorge Stolfi 22:56, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
It is now possible to have Ubykh as one of your user languages in the Wikipedia Userboxes, thanks to Wikipedia:Babel. The relevant ISO tag is uby. Thefamouseccles 08:57, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
If it's a dead language, shouldn't a lot of the article switch to past tense? AEuSoes1 08:05, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
The image Image:Tevfik-82.gif is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --07:46, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
I was reading an article on the Archi language and I was reading the references and I stumbled upon a document which lists a variety of different dialects of Ubykh which list more than the "Karaclar" dialect.
The full document is here on page 3. Also, what happened to the title of the dialect section? How come it's been changed from "Karaclar dialect" to just "Dialect"? Burned Toast ( talk) 05:39, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
According to the article, Dumézil draws attention to Ubykh and the two phonemic vowels.
But Dumézil's cited examples are using 7 or 8 different vowels.
So, what is the explanation for so many symbols and so few sounds?
He's French, and his own language uses au, aux, ault, aulx, eau, eaux, eauld, eault, etc. etc. to represent a single sound? Is that it?
Varlaam (
talk) 02:57, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
And should the 7 or 8 vowels not be listed in this article? Phonemes are all well and good, but allophones are also important. Possibly research into consonantal allophones might be uncovered; I would be happy too see some on the page. DjKarta ( talk) 11:58, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
Is this alphabet here [1] correct? If yes can I add it to the article?-- Adamʂa123 ( talk) 18:15, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
I've reverted some recent edits to this page, and explained myself in here. The discussion concerns many articles, so I thought it would be a good idea to keep it central. I hereby invite everyone who is interested to join the discussion on Talk:Northwest Caucasian languages. Thank you
Vito Genovese 13:42, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
The "Samples of Ubykh" transcription mentions Dumézil as the sourve. However, all other websites citing his transcription are completely different from the one found here, to give an example: The following is the Wikipedia IPA transcription of the first line of the "Eating fish makes you clever" story: "faaχʲa tʼqʷʼa-kʷabʒa kʲʼaʁə-n a-za-χʲa-ʃə-na-n a-mʁʲa-n ɡʲə-kʲa-qʼa-n" This is how http://lacito.vjf.cnrs.fr/pangloss/corpus/show_text_en.php?id=crdo-UBY_POISSON_SOUND&idref=crdo-UBY_POISSON and the other sources I've found transcribe it: "fạ́xʹa tˀq˚ˀá-k˚ábǯʹa kʹˀáɣə.n aza.xʹa.šʹə.na.n á-mɣʹa.n gʹə.kʹa.qˀá.n."
Is it because of a disagreement in analysis, or do they simply use different phonetic alphabets? If the latter; which phonetic alphabet do Pangloss use? (I assume it's french), and is there a source available that uses the same transcription as found on wikipedia?
Is there even a reliable source that uses the same transcription found here? 84.238.86.182 ( talk) 13:22, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
In February 2018 an IP editor removed the statement that the last native speaker died in 1992, without providing any reliable sources. The comment for the edit says "ubikh is still spoken my family is of ubikh decent from Jordan and we still use this language." The lead paragraph still says the language is extinct. The apparent conflict should be reconciled or the status of the language clarified. Vox Sciurorum ( talk) 12:19, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
The translation in Ubykh babel template says "tʼqʷʼaakʲʼa", and I think this word means "This cleaner, cleaning crew" (jə-tʼqʷʼa-aakʲʼa-n: this-clean-doing.person-REL). According to Vogt, H. Dictionnaire de la langue Oubykh, tʼqʷʼa- (No.1896) means 'a-s-tʼqʷʼa-n: je le ménage, je l'économise'. Does "tʼqʷʼa" has another meaning without "two" or Is my analysis wrong? Мизхо ( talk) 20:45, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
Is /wərəs/ from Russian or Persian? The article contradicts itself CecilWard ( talk) 08:12, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
Something's wrong here. Anyone able to sort it out? Flapdragon ( talk) 00:21, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
I changed the example for the verb to love from "I love you" to "You loved" but it needs a translation. 2601:C6:D281:6710:2CFC:2C51:F78B:425F ( talk) 22:42, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
Usually when a language is extinct the box is red, I don't know how to change it, so can someone do it. Art3mist6 ( talk) 15:22, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
The proposed orthography for Ubykh is in the page so thank you whoever that was, I can't seem to find it in the history. I suggest that we use the Latin orthography instead of the cyrillic for consistency. Furthermore, I want to replace the sample as it doesn't use the three vowel system (ironic that it was written by Fenwick, the same person who wrote A Grammar of Ubykh) and it will be moved over to the one described at the back of A Grammar of Ubykh. Burned Toast ( talk) 21:01, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
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![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
I want to invite any Wikipedia user who stumbles across this page to leave a note at my user page. I'm learning Ubykh, but it's an extremely slow process, so if there's anyone else out there in Wiki-land who'd like to help, or to learn it themselves, please let me know. thefamouseccles 23:17 September 10, 2003 (UTC)
I noticed, while creating the SAMPA version of the consonant chart, that the introduction states that there are 83 consonants in the inventory, but the chart only lists 71. Which is correct? I assume that, at the very least, / ’ / (glottal stop) is missing. (Then again, Korean also has ejectives with no glottal stop phoneme.) pgdudda 01:39 Apr 30, 2003 (UTC)
My apologies - I was the one who wrote this article. You have made a good point - a few series of labialised consonants are missing from this chart. You assume correctly that glottal stop is missing; it is only an allophone of q' in Ubykh, and is not present phonemically. The phoneme chart in Ubykh language should now contain the 81 consonant phonemes; the vowels remain the same. There are no alveolar labialised fricatives, these having merged with the alveolopalatal labialised fricatives. Thanks for pointing out my error. thefamouseccles 22:53 May 8, 2003 (GMT)
My apologies again; after reviewing the Ubykh phonetic chart in Bernard Comrie's Languages Of The Soviet Union, it would appear that I inserted two phonemes where none exist (the alveolar labialised fricatives I posited have merged with the alveolopalatal labialised fricatives), and omitted three which do (labialised alveolar stops). This has been changed in the Ubykh language article, now reflecting the 83 consonant phonemes that Ubykh has. thefamouseccles 01:42 May 16, 2003 (GMT)
Hi. i stumbled & fell & dropped you this link:
http://email.eva.mpg.de/~vandenbe/Mekegi.html
in case you, havent been there before. (the author is sadly no longer with us.)
- peace
Ish ishwar 02:13, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
It seems phonetic [brackets] and phonemic /slashes/ are mixed up in this article. BenctPhilipJonsson 21:23, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Noticed Päkhy in the refs. Does the person who added the ref know the material? I've only heard that Päkhy was spoken far to the west of the other Caucasic languages, but it appears from wikipedia that it was a local name for Ubykh. Was the Päkhy community in western Anatolia a "recent" (post-Ottoman conquest or post Russian-conquest) emigre population of Ubykh, or did they have a long history in the region? kwami 02:33, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the info. It's been several years, and I no longer remember where I came across the word. The context, however, seemed to give Pakhy as evidence that the Caucasic languages were originally more widespread than their current extent, which you've laid to rest. (Though they presumably were, of course, from other evidence.) kwami 01:53, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
Perhaps the bulk of the Phonetics section should be moved to the Ubykh phonology page? Jorge Stolfi 22:56, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
It is now possible to have Ubykh as one of your user languages in the Wikipedia Userboxes, thanks to Wikipedia:Babel. The relevant ISO tag is uby. Thefamouseccles 08:57, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
If it's a dead language, shouldn't a lot of the article switch to past tense? AEuSoes1 08:05, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
The image Image:Tevfik-82.gif is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --07:46, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
I was reading an article on the Archi language and I was reading the references and I stumbled upon a document which lists a variety of different dialects of Ubykh which list more than the "Karaclar" dialect.
The full document is here on page 3. Also, what happened to the title of the dialect section? How come it's been changed from "Karaclar dialect" to just "Dialect"? Burned Toast ( talk) 05:39, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
According to the article, Dumézil draws attention to Ubykh and the two phonemic vowels.
But Dumézil's cited examples are using 7 or 8 different vowels.
So, what is the explanation for so many symbols and so few sounds?
He's French, and his own language uses au, aux, ault, aulx, eau, eaux, eauld, eault, etc. etc. to represent a single sound? Is that it?
Varlaam (
talk) 02:57, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
And should the 7 or 8 vowels not be listed in this article? Phonemes are all well and good, but allophones are also important. Possibly research into consonantal allophones might be uncovered; I would be happy too see some on the page. DjKarta ( talk) 11:58, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
Is this alphabet here [1] correct? If yes can I add it to the article?-- Adamʂa123 ( talk) 18:15, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
I've reverted some recent edits to this page, and explained myself in here. The discussion concerns many articles, so I thought it would be a good idea to keep it central. I hereby invite everyone who is interested to join the discussion on Talk:Northwest Caucasian languages. Thank you
Vito Genovese 13:42, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
The "Samples of Ubykh" transcription mentions Dumézil as the sourve. However, all other websites citing his transcription are completely different from the one found here, to give an example: The following is the Wikipedia IPA transcription of the first line of the "Eating fish makes you clever" story: "faaχʲa tʼqʷʼa-kʷabʒa kʲʼaʁə-n a-za-χʲa-ʃə-na-n a-mʁʲa-n ɡʲə-kʲa-qʼa-n" This is how http://lacito.vjf.cnrs.fr/pangloss/corpus/show_text_en.php?id=crdo-UBY_POISSON_SOUND&idref=crdo-UBY_POISSON and the other sources I've found transcribe it: "fạ́xʹa tˀq˚ˀá-k˚ábǯʹa kʹˀáɣə.n aza.xʹa.šʹə.na.n á-mɣʹa.n gʹə.kʹa.qˀá.n."
Is it because of a disagreement in analysis, or do they simply use different phonetic alphabets? If the latter; which phonetic alphabet do Pangloss use? (I assume it's french), and is there a source available that uses the same transcription as found on wikipedia?
Is there even a reliable source that uses the same transcription found here? 84.238.86.182 ( talk) 13:22, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
In February 2018 an IP editor removed the statement that the last native speaker died in 1992, without providing any reliable sources. The comment for the edit says "ubikh is still spoken my family is of ubikh decent from Jordan and we still use this language." The lead paragraph still says the language is extinct. The apparent conflict should be reconciled or the status of the language clarified. Vox Sciurorum ( talk) 12:19, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
The translation in Ubykh babel template says "tʼqʷʼaakʲʼa", and I think this word means "This cleaner, cleaning crew" (jə-tʼqʷʼa-aakʲʼa-n: this-clean-doing.person-REL). According to Vogt, H. Dictionnaire de la langue Oubykh, tʼqʷʼa- (No.1896) means 'a-s-tʼqʷʼa-n: je le ménage, je l'économise'. Does "tʼqʷʼa" has another meaning without "two" or Is my analysis wrong? Мизхо ( talk) 20:45, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
Is /wərəs/ from Russian or Persian? The article contradicts itself CecilWard ( talk) 08:12, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
Something's wrong here. Anyone able to sort it out? Flapdragon ( talk) 00:21, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
I changed the example for the verb to love from "I love you" to "You loved" but it needs a translation. 2601:C6:D281:6710:2CFC:2C51:F78B:425F ( talk) 22:42, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
Usually when a language is extinct the box is red, I don't know how to change it, so can someone do it. Art3mist6 ( talk) 15:22, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
The proposed orthography for Ubykh is in the page so thank you whoever that was, I can't seem to find it in the history. I suggest that we use the Latin orthography instead of the cyrillic for consistency. Furthermore, I want to replace the sample as it doesn't use the three vowel system (ironic that it was written by Fenwick, the same person who wrote A Grammar of Ubykh) and it will be moved over to the one described at the back of A Grammar of Ubykh. Burned Toast ( talk) 21:01, 30 April 2024 (UTC)