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The hull designation "DLG" is not for " guided missile frigate". That hull designation is FFG, for Fast Frigate (Guided Missile). DLG is Destroyer Leader (Guided Missile). (Yes, that's a non-standard hull designation. But neither was Destroyer Escort.) It was these DLGs that were later reclassified CG, for Cruiser (Guided Missile). FFs, formerly DEs for Destroyer Escorts, and FFGs, formerly DEGs for Destroyer Escorts (Guided Missile), are still with us. See http://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_display.asp?cid=4200&tid=1300&ct=4 - TCav 18:47, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I really didn't think that anyone would contest the change I made, changing the definition of the hull designation of DLG from "Frigate" to "Destroyer Leader", but here we are. If you go to the U.S. Navy's website [1] and search for "DLG", you will find a series of articles in which DLG is defined as either "guided missile destroyer" or "guided missile destroyer leader". There are only two pages that define DLG as "guided missile frigate" and one is a copy of the other. In addition, no one I know that ever served aboard a DLG (while it was a DLG) would have called their ship a "frigate". The only reference to them being Frigates in the Navy.mil website is on a handful of ship histories, but not all of them. I don't know who called them "frigates" but the Navy doesn't (and didn't) and the sailors that served on them don't (and didn't.) I also would like to call your attention to the USS Norfolk (DL-1), the USS Mitscher (DL-2), the USS John S. McCain (DL-3), the USS Willis A. Lee (DL-4), and the USS Wilkinson (DL-5). If a DL is a Destroyer Leader, why would someone think that a DLG wasn't a Guided Missile Destroyer Leader? -TCav 02:09, 6 July 2007 (UTC) See US Navy's Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships and United States Naval Historical Center articles at the following links:
Multiple US Navy sources, obviously at some point the USN called them frigates. -- Dual Freq 21:16, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
Actually I served aboard the USS Coontz DDG 40, from 1975 to 1980 just after the change and I had read the ship's history while aboard. The designation DLG was for Destroyer Leader Guided Missile she was never classified as a Frigate and ships of her size with the 5"/54 and missile house reversed were considered Cruisers. A bit of history, they were larger than other destroyers at the time they were built which led to the DLG designation and there were a lot of FRAM conversions still in the fleet at that time. There is ample proof of her designations and at that time calling a 5,500 (full load) ton 535 foot long destroyer that outsized and outgunned a Charles F. Adams class destoyer a frigate would have gotten more than a few raised eyebrows. At one time they were considered some of the most powerful AA platforms that the US Navy had. There had been some playing around with what and what wasn't a frigate then they rationalised it and the designation was changed to DDG (Destroyer Guided Missile) Oh and I do have the DD214 to prove it. If you have questions about that ship in particular or that class I am probably as close as you are going to get to an eyes on expert. Tirronan 17:14, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
America anchored at Valletta at 1000 on 5 April 1967 for a five-day visit. Weighing anchor on 10 April the carrier departed Malta to sail for task group operations in the Ionian Sea. She conducted an open sea missile exercise with the guided missile destroyers USS Josephus Daniels (DLG-27) and USS Harry E. Yarnell (DLG-17). Other operational aspects of the at-sea period consisted of routine day/night flight operations and a major underway replenishment with other units of TG 6 0.1. The following days saw the threat of civil war in Greece commencing with the military coup that ended parliamentary rule in that country. Although King Constantine II held his throne, the possibility of violence in the streets of Athens loomed as a potential threat to the American citizens suddenly caught up in the turmoil. It seemed that evacuation by ship might be necessary and Commander, 6th Fleet, ordered the formation of a special operations task force.
Here is the definative list [ [7]] which states that the DLG was a Guided Missle Frigate when Coontz and the following Belnap class were constructed, so you know the reason for the confusion a Destroyer squadron would have a Destroyer leader that was larger to house the Desron commander and staff, this wasn't actually done much in the US Navy but we all understood the function. The problem with the Coontz Class was that they were 2x heavier than the various Fram (ex Gearing) types still floating around and were encrouching on CL stataus by tonnage if not armor. The final designation was simply Destroyer Guided missile. Don't worry about being hostile I have been editing here for over 2 years (no idea I had been here this long) and lord have I had a few go arounds with Trolls. Also if you are interested I have upgraded the USS Constellation 1779 article from a start class you might find that interesting. I'm the one that has been upgrading the US BB articles also. Tirronan 19:38, 16 July 2007 (UTC) I'm the one that started all this. I served in the USN from 1971 to 1980. I served aboard a Destroyer Tender (AD-36), a Repair Ship (AR-5), and a Shore Intermediate Maintenance Activity (SIMASD). I have serviced many of the ships referred to in this discussion. I had never seen or heard of DLs or DLGs referred to as 'Frigates'. In the Google searches referred to on this page, most of the references to DLGs do use the term 'Frigate', but if you leave out hits to the Naval Historical Center pages, most of the hits are to pages that refer to DLs and DLGs as 'Destroyer Leader', and many of those pages are recently published articles. I have been discussing this issue with members of the Destroyer Leaders Association (who were surprised to learn that they served aboard 'Frigates', and were also disappointed to learn that Wikipedia doesn't have an entry for 'Destroyer Leader') and with the Naval Historical Center, and have chosen to remain silent here until those bodies respond to my inquiries to resolve this issue. I suspect that the DLA will come up with something, but I'm not holding my breath for a response from the NHC. TCav 11:48, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
75.51.187.56 ( talk) 23:56, 20 January 2008 (UTC) Hi - I served on both the USS Jouett and USS Fox as an RD3 between 1968 and 1971, and everyone onboard (even their captains) back in those days referred to them as either DLGs or guided missle *Frigates*. Our normal job was not escort duty, but rather as radar picket ships, and normally steaming alone. In Vietnam the DLGs were the northern radar picket ships at a theoretical point in the gulf called Point Piraz, which was right off of N. Vietnam. --Ken Dine I concur. I served aboard Gridley from 1972 to mid-1976. Until she was redesignated as CG-21 in 1975, everyone knew her as a "guided missile frigate". On the other hand, my college roomate had done an ROTC tour aboard DL-1 and always referred to her as a "destroyer leader". I never heard anyone use that term in connection with a Leahy Class DLG. -- WikiJEC ( talk) 06:46, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
USS Fox (CG-33) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The hull designation "DLG" is not for " guided missile frigate". That hull designation is FFG, for Fast Frigate (Guided Missile). DLG is Destroyer Leader (Guided Missile). (Yes, that's a non-standard hull designation. But neither was Destroyer Escort.) It was these DLGs that were later reclassified CG, for Cruiser (Guided Missile). FFs, formerly DEs for Destroyer Escorts, and FFGs, formerly DEGs for Destroyer Escorts (Guided Missile), are still with us. See http://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_display.asp?cid=4200&tid=1300&ct=4 - TCav 18:47, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I really didn't think that anyone would contest the change I made, changing the definition of the hull designation of DLG from "Frigate" to "Destroyer Leader", but here we are. If you go to the U.S. Navy's website [1] and search for "DLG", you will find a series of articles in which DLG is defined as either "guided missile destroyer" or "guided missile destroyer leader". There are only two pages that define DLG as "guided missile frigate" and one is a copy of the other. In addition, no one I know that ever served aboard a DLG (while it was a DLG) would have called their ship a "frigate". The only reference to them being Frigates in the Navy.mil website is on a handful of ship histories, but not all of them. I don't know who called them "frigates" but the Navy doesn't (and didn't) and the sailors that served on them don't (and didn't.) I also would like to call your attention to the USS Norfolk (DL-1), the USS Mitscher (DL-2), the USS John S. McCain (DL-3), the USS Willis A. Lee (DL-4), and the USS Wilkinson (DL-5). If a DL is a Destroyer Leader, why would someone think that a DLG wasn't a Guided Missile Destroyer Leader? -TCav 02:09, 6 July 2007 (UTC) See US Navy's Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships and United States Naval Historical Center articles at the following links:
Multiple US Navy sources, obviously at some point the USN called them frigates. -- Dual Freq 21:16, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
Actually I served aboard the USS Coontz DDG 40, from 1975 to 1980 just after the change and I had read the ship's history while aboard. The designation DLG was for Destroyer Leader Guided Missile she was never classified as a Frigate and ships of her size with the 5"/54 and missile house reversed were considered Cruisers. A bit of history, they were larger than other destroyers at the time they were built which led to the DLG designation and there were a lot of FRAM conversions still in the fleet at that time. There is ample proof of her designations and at that time calling a 5,500 (full load) ton 535 foot long destroyer that outsized and outgunned a Charles F. Adams class destoyer a frigate would have gotten more than a few raised eyebrows. At one time they were considered some of the most powerful AA platforms that the US Navy had. There had been some playing around with what and what wasn't a frigate then they rationalised it and the designation was changed to DDG (Destroyer Guided Missile) Oh and I do have the DD214 to prove it. If you have questions about that ship in particular or that class I am probably as close as you are going to get to an eyes on expert. Tirronan 17:14, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
America anchored at Valletta at 1000 on 5 April 1967 for a five-day visit. Weighing anchor on 10 April the carrier departed Malta to sail for task group operations in the Ionian Sea. She conducted an open sea missile exercise with the guided missile destroyers USS Josephus Daniels (DLG-27) and USS Harry E. Yarnell (DLG-17). Other operational aspects of the at-sea period consisted of routine day/night flight operations and a major underway replenishment with other units of TG 6 0.1. The following days saw the threat of civil war in Greece commencing with the military coup that ended parliamentary rule in that country. Although King Constantine II held his throne, the possibility of violence in the streets of Athens loomed as a potential threat to the American citizens suddenly caught up in the turmoil. It seemed that evacuation by ship might be necessary and Commander, 6th Fleet, ordered the formation of a special operations task force.
Here is the definative list [ [7]] which states that the DLG was a Guided Missle Frigate when Coontz and the following Belnap class were constructed, so you know the reason for the confusion a Destroyer squadron would have a Destroyer leader that was larger to house the Desron commander and staff, this wasn't actually done much in the US Navy but we all understood the function. The problem with the Coontz Class was that they were 2x heavier than the various Fram (ex Gearing) types still floating around and were encrouching on CL stataus by tonnage if not armor. The final designation was simply Destroyer Guided missile. Don't worry about being hostile I have been editing here for over 2 years (no idea I had been here this long) and lord have I had a few go arounds with Trolls. Also if you are interested I have upgraded the USS Constellation 1779 article from a start class you might find that interesting. I'm the one that has been upgrading the US BB articles also. Tirronan 19:38, 16 July 2007 (UTC) I'm the one that started all this. I served in the USN from 1971 to 1980. I served aboard a Destroyer Tender (AD-36), a Repair Ship (AR-5), and a Shore Intermediate Maintenance Activity (SIMASD). I have serviced many of the ships referred to in this discussion. I had never seen or heard of DLs or DLGs referred to as 'Frigates'. In the Google searches referred to on this page, most of the references to DLGs do use the term 'Frigate', but if you leave out hits to the Naval Historical Center pages, most of the hits are to pages that refer to DLs and DLGs as 'Destroyer Leader', and many of those pages are recently published articles. I have been discussing this issue with members of the Destroyer Leaders Association (who were surprised to learn that they served aboard 'Frigates', and were also disappointed to learn that Wikipedia doesn't have an entry for 'Destroyer Leader') and with the Naval Historical Center, and have chosen to remain silent here until those bodies respond to my inquiries to resolve this issue. I suspect that the DLA will come up with something, but I'm not holding my breath for a response from the NHC. TCav 11:48, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
75.51.187.56 ( talk) 23:56, 20 January 2008 (UTC) Hi - I served on both the USS Jouett and USS Fox as an RD3 between 1968 and 1971, and everyone onboard (even their captains) back in those days referred to them as either DLGs or guided missle *Frigates*. Our normal job was not escort duty, but rather as radar picket ships, and normally steaming alone. In Vietnam the DLGs were the northern radar picket ships at a theoretical point in the gulf called Point Piraz, which was right off of N. Vietnam. --Ken Dine I concur. I served aboard Gridley from 1972 to mid-1976. Until she was redesignated as CG-21 in 1975, everyone knew her as a "guided missile frigate". On the other hand, my college roomate had done an ROTC tour aboard DL-1 and always referred to her as a "destroyer leader". I never heard anyone use that term in connection with a Leahy Class DLG. -- WikiJEC ( talk) 06:46, 24 April 2010 (UTC)