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Would anybody mind awfully if I took the flag down? I recently removed the Union Jack from The Clash and I think the same argument I used there applies here as well. Flags seem more appropriate on say national football teams and the like. U2 are a national symbol of Ireland, but I do not see them as being particularly nationalistic; indeed they are internationalists. -- Guinnog 20:51, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes I actually DO mind and I'm putting the flag back up. It seems pretty "dumb" to say the least to take the flags off of the Clash's and U2's whilst leaving these high profile bands's infoboxes with their flag. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18]
Regards, Billtheking 16:38, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Snow patrol also has the flag
[19], If you where truly interested you would take that flag off, seeing how its controversial in its own country and not even official, with half the population pretty much hating it.
Dudesleeper, it is obviously some kind of wikipolicy to place flagicons in the infoboxes with famous bands. ATM I have seen no real/valid reasons as to why the flag should be removed. The reason why it should be up there is to illustrate the bands origins in an aesthetic way. That is why it is obviously done at ALL the other bands. Billtheking 08:14, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
I cannot find any such policy and I don't find it aesthetic. On the other hand I did find WP:FLAG. Furthermore your edit seems to be against consensus. -- Guinnog 08:29, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
So Bono, The Edge, Adam Clayton, and Larry Mullen, Jr. all can have flags on their pages but U2 cant? Are you going to remove all the flags of all the famous bands pages, or are you just going to keep doing it at U2? Billtheking 08:34, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
You speak of consensus, yet on ALL the other prolific bands pages there is the obvious consensus of the flags being there. As to calling you dumb, that was not my intent and I apologise, it just struck me as a weird idea. Billtheking 08:38, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
"indeed they are internationalists." That doesn't say a whole lot, RHCP see themselves as Californians, yet you don't see the bear in their infobox right? Billtheking 08:45, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
You honestly believe that is worthy of an encyclopædia? Do you know the term uniformity and what it means for Wikipedia? Billtheking 10:35, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Why do I get the idea that it is not a good idea for the lay-out and contents infoboxes (of similar articles) to be changed at random?? Shouldn't we have uniformity? As I said, the flag illustrates in an aesthetic way the country of origin. Billtheking 11:59, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
It seems you are in the minority seeing how pages from American presidents to Kofi Annan and Bono have flags, do you see them being removed? No, but for some freakish reason 3 persons here seem to dislike the Irish flag on this page. Billtheking 13:14, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Seeing how WP:FLAG is not a policy, isn't there some sort of request for a new policy or something alike on band userboxes? Billtheking 13:33, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Now, I have never heard U2s music let alone bought their records but I am rather intrigued by them.I have heard that the parents of two members are British -the parents were 1) a professor of English who took up a post at Trinity College Dublin 2)another moved his family to Ireland to become head of training for Air Lingus-he had been head of training for British Airways which meant -at that time- he would have been originally a senior Royal Air Force officer.The Mount Temple Comprehensive was a British style school and was known locally (wrongly) as The British School At this school they met two British boys from Northern Ireland -the Mullens whose grandfather had been a Bishop in the Irish Church of England .Paul Hewson had a father from Northern ireland and a Catholic mother.He obviously preferred a British style education to an Irish catholic one. The rock music they played was at that time overwhelmingly a British creation
--None of U2's parents was a Professor in any University. Adam's father was a pilot with Aer Lingus. mount Temple comp was non-demoninational school which was rare in Ireland of the 1970s. Bono's father was Catholic and from dublin, his mother was Protestant. That means NOTHING about his own preferences of education. Please read up on thing before you make ridiculous claims. I can go into this at greater length but I feel you would be better served by actually rteading up on U2.
I am puzzled therefore why they are so much considered an "Irish "band.They have more connection with Britain than Ireland surely ? If you disagree you must admit they cant really be called an Irish band -"international " is a reasonable choice
It is also strange that nothing is ever written about this,or their families.Every one knows everything about the Beatles and many other pop groups but nothing is available about their families or brothers?sisters? most presumably living and working happily in England ? If anyone has any information I would love to hear it. I am interested partly because these are boys from frankly at that time,rather snobby professional backgounds and very British at that-yet we never hear about them-its all kept a secret I have sometimes wondered if the U2 name -of the famous spy plane-was connected to the idea that their families were actually spying for the British in some way...Its a thought!!! Aberdale 21:39, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
This was recently added. [20] I don't think it is necessary. In fact, is there already such a list on wikiepdia? If not, it can be created and the article directed there. Merbabu 11:13, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
I've expanded the campaigning section as was requested during the FA nomination. Please give it a look-see and ADD REFERENCES for me (only fair, because chances are I've added a reference to your writing, if you've written for this article!). Wikipedia brown 02:37, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
This is the second time this article has been nominated in only a few weeks. Both times it has been done unilaterally and without consulting other editors. It is far to premature and i doubt very much it will get FA. If it does, then FA is meaningless. On the other hand, the current FAC is getting a lot of useful comments and attention, the majority of which i believe should be implemented. (while the peer review process didn't get much feedback at all). Please consult other editors before nomination again. thanks Merbabu 02:55, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
There seems to be a fair bit of disagreement over what the info box should contain. I have two issues:
Hi, I'd like to know IF YOU can change the Main Picture. It's an awful out of focus photograph. We're talking about the best Rock Band in the World,so the picture must be equal and not less.
there's a list of artists that have made cover versions of their songs, presumably the one's who's covers were a bit more famous or well known, yet, no where does the article mention mary j. blige's collaboration with u2 with 'one' which charted pretty well.... any explaination? Jgrizzy89 04:33, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I see:
McCormick (ed), Neil (2006). U2 by U2. London: HarperCollinsPublishers, pp.46-48. ISBN 0-00-719668-7.
U2 Limited (2006). U2 by U2. London: HarperCollinsPublishers, 151. ISBN 0-00-719668-7.
Adam Clayton:U2 Limited (2006). U2 by U2. London: HarperCollinsPublishers, p.147. ISBN 0-00-719668-7.
The Edge U2 Limited (2006). U2 by U2. London: HarperCollinsPublishers, 151. ISBN 0-00-719668-7.
Bono, The Edge, Adam Clayton, Larry Mullen Jr U2 by U2, pg. 249, 2006, Harper Collins, ISBN 0-06-077675-77 (mine, oops)
These are all the same book. Since it is listed as a "source", can't we change all of these to "McCormick (ed), 2006, pg#"?
Wikipedia brown
01:38, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure I didn't mention before and you guys dumped it, but U2's first product was a set of badges ordered from Better Badges in the UK in 78, saying "could happen to anyone" They are illustrated on this page. At Better Badges at the time, we ran under the slogan Image As Virus - Disease As Cure an informal punk equivalent of the GFDL. Bands submitted artwork, ordered a few, and then we disposed of as many as possible, and encouraged reproduction. These designs were very much in that spirit. Joly (ex=BB) Wwwhatsup 11:45, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Sound files that are here should be chosen to directly support what is being described in the article - they should not be chosen simply cos they are great or very famous songs. They should contribute context to the written information, not be there to show off U2's most famous songs.
We have four sound files of which i think two are a good, supportive choices. ie, Sunday Bloody Sunday and Vertigo are both representative of the hard hitting sound strived for on their albums. Furthermore, SBS has that political flavour of the War album while Vertigo has that "boys and their rock'n'roll" sound to it.
The other two, Pride and One, although great songs, are not good choices. Being the most conventional U2 sound of their respective albums, they do NOT showcase the new sounds, ie the basic idea, of either of these albums. I suggest they be changed. For the Unforgettable Fire, I suggest "A Sort of Homecoming", or "The Unforgettable Fire". They are both more representative of what is being said about that album. As for Achtung Baby, One doesn't represent that album's mood like "Zoo Station" or "The Fly", or maybe even "mysterious Ways".
Does anyone know how to create new music files? -- Merbabu 12:30, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
"Pride" is worth including for its historical context because it was the band's first American Top 40 hit. The page should also have one of their earliest singles, and definitely something from The Joshua Tree.
This may be pushing it but I think it'd be a pretty good idea to include a song from every album, to offer a piece from every U2 sound-period -- every U2 album, especially after their first three albums (which were pretty post-punk) has its' own sound. What do you guys think...? RattleandHum 04:54, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
I don't necessarily think the word usage for the statement under their activism section that says: "The ONE Campaign, has been shaped in no small way by his efforts and vision" is worded properly... Couldn't it just say: "The ONE Campaign, has been shaped by his efforts and vision." ? It just sounds better... Any objections? Jgrizzy89 05:48, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- Dudesleeper · Talk 15:59, 3 February 2007 (UTC)Current_members (groups): Current members of the group, listed in order of joining with no other notation than names.
but why keep deleting anyone's further input WITHIN the article, listing full instrumentation? yes, true, let us keep the info clear of it, but let's have a compromise, wouldn't you agree? what has been put anyway is what appears in their CD booklets, there really is no reason to delete it. 69.182.90.72 21:22, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Guys, I haven't seen much in the way of activity on this page in the last couple of days, so in order to stir things up a bit (I do love playing the role of the rabblerouser), I've added a first stab at a styles/themes section. Please feel free to add, refine, and remove detail as you see fit. I will add references shortly. Hope to see some constructive edits made to this much-needed section! Wikipedia brown 07:11, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Encyclopedia articles are not blogs.
Just noticed that the article is now the second non-google link in a Google search. It used to be third under atu2.com. We're moving on up. Just wish we had a better main picture (with Larry actually playing drums). Speaking of which, I found this (potentially better) picture on http://www.u2-vertigo-tour.com/tourpictures/. Unfortunately you can't see Adam's face and it's not as high res as the one that's there. Please let me know if you think this would make a better picture, and I'll email the guy who took it to see if he would creative commons license it. Otherwise, I was thinking we could splice together a bunch of pictures of each bandmember. Thoughts? Wikipedia brown 19:28, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
RattleandHum 22:25, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
RattleandHum 04:38, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Stevie Wonder now has 22 Grammys after this year's Grammy awards (he won for best collaboration with Tony Bennett, which interestingly enough was up against Mary J Blige's rendition of One with U2). This means that U2 is now tied for 1st. Wikipedia brown 06:51, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Wouldn't it make sense to have the single releases in the discography section as well? I am not much into editing music articles, so I honestly don't know. -- RichiH 11:42, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
The political website Counterpunch.org carry articles that often critique U2 & Bono's social activism. I feel the need to add this 67.53.78.15 04:56, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
See above. 212.85.12.94 11:50, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
U2 are a rock band from Dublin, Ireland. Shouldn't it be U2 is a rock band from Dublin, Ireland?—Preceding unsigned comment added by Ootmc ( talk • contribs) 20:05, 31 March 2007
On most U2 album articles there is a link to a review by Robert Christgau. link. I strongly feel that this page is not a real review by a respected source - most of the time he just writes a couple of sentence on each album, sometimes nothing at all. Plus, I've never heard of him. I removed all the links only to have them replaced, so can we have some consensus on this? Willnz0 22:52, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
For verification: Today I met a friend and we began talking about local bands. He's someone who is not given to making things up; he's a quiet Australian of Scottish descent who I've known about 10 years. He recalled being in Carlisle, Cumbria in 1979 and seeing a sign on a pub for a band playing that night: U2. He went to the gig and "there were about 20 people there including the band". He said that, among those present, were Kate Bush and Sid Vicious and he talked to both of them. (My friend said Sid gave Kate some tickets to a gig, and she passed them to him, "my Aussie friend".) This is where I'm beginning to get the jitters about the story, as Sid died in February 1979, and Kate was just then a new star. He said the pub was the "Seben Stars" (sic; yes, I queried him about the spelling!) Is there anyone from Carlisle who can verify the venue or the occasion? (The pub name does not come up on any search engine I've used.) Peter Ellis 06:48, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
How much you want to bet someone will add something about this to the page within the next 24 hours [22]? Wikipedia brown 17:05, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
Hey all I'm new to wiki, anyways I just referenced the spiderman musical, original fix was by 69.231.250.170 I think. 76.19.30.95 06:41, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
Sorry about adding that without mentioning it here. It's on the front page of the Life section of the April 20th edition of the USA Today that Bono and The Edge will indeed be writing most/all of the score for a Spider-Man musical. So, i'll let one of you guys look it up and add it to the article after you find it. --- Dirtylemons666 18:18, 23 April 2007
I don't like (sometimes detailed) running commentaries on developing events in an encyclopedia which I should feel should move a bit slower an record things that have actually happened and are significant. Thus I don't know that we need to list a so-far non-existant U2 album in the list of albums, and the article should only make a brief description of the work towards it. If we want up to date but transient information we should go to a newspaper or rock journal. In fact, i just removed it. Merbabu 04:48, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Though it can be debated whether or not these bands have influenced U2, they are not major influences. The bands that are listed as major influences (The Who, The Clash, The Ramones, The Beatles) are frequently brought up by the band themselves as large inspirations and even tributed to in their sound. Of course, the band has other influences -- but this section should be for major influences only; otherwise, it'll make the article -- and that particular section, of course -- too long, as the article is pretty long as it is. If we were to put every influence of U2, or any band for that matter, it'd need it's own page to list them all. Therefore, the four that are listed are enough for major influences. 155.43.23.114 17:44, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
By the way, we need a more reliable cite for The Beatles. Has anyone seen the link cited? Not quite a reliable source. WesleyDodds 10:50, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
167.230.38.115 ( talk) 17:20, 7 December 2007 (UTC) Bono learned everything he knows from David Gahan 167.230.38.115 ( talk) 17:20, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
user TheFuzzyFive had changed the lead to cover potential confusion between YouTube and U2, I am not sure this could occur and reverted it; thoughts? -- Parhamr 03:24, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
The result was no merger. -- Crashintome4196 05:02, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
The article U2's 16th album should be merged into this article because the album does not yet have enough information or even a title to have its own article at this point. – Crashintome4196 03:41, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
I spent some time culling info in this section. The section was long but had very little info that was notable enough for the main page on U2 a band with 30 year history. SOrry, but it was a tedious read. It was full of statistics, dates, and overly detailed listings awards. It's a lot shorter now - some info is already in sub-articles and other overly detailed, even tedious, info I pushed down into footnotes, and other info i just remove redundancies in language, so no actual info is gone. This is the diff [23] but it is best viewed in the article itself - as most info is now in footnotes. Salient points..
The section does need a bit more on the album and tour's themes, motivations, etc. The Joshua Tree and Unforgettable Fire sections do this well in my opinion, whilst the HTDAAB section is very shallow in contrast. It is just discusses of iPod/Apple and chart positions (which i condensed last week). These are important of course, but in detail and on their own - "snore!". At most three well-referenced sentences is what we need to add; I will research later, but off the top of my head:
Any thoughts? -- Merbabu 03:12, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
I added a bit - from a Rolling Stone mag. We could probably get a bit more quality info in but anything more than a sentence, I'd like to see some of the other condensed - do we need all those stats and dates? Can some go to album, tour and song articles? Merbabu 03:28, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
In regard to the question of whether Joy Division/New Order should be considered a "major influence" on U2, it looks as if this anonymous user is the only one who objects. I strongly suspect that the IPs [ [24]], [ [25]], and[ [26]] are actually the same person, who continues to delete content from the article not in keeping with his POV. As this is the case, can the article be protected to put an end to his vandalism? --- Charles 18:04, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
In the "Other Projects" section, please include that Bono and the Edge scored the London stage version of Italic textA Clockwork OrangeItalic text in 1990. I was in London and saw it at the time. It was forgettable. 65.208.235.66 21:19, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Actually, I was speaking more of the play than the music. Still it was significant in that it was a production with the Royal Shakespeare Company. Also, music from this influneced/morphed into the style of Actung Baby. See this reference: [ [27]] and [ [28]]
I actually agree that it should at least be brought up (if it hasn't already :) ) mainly due to the fact that a song that was done for the project was subsequently released on The Fly (song) single... Jgrizzy89 16:59, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm quite aware that the article is at its third FAC right now and I have some ideas on how to spruce it up: mainly streamlining prose, combining paragraphs, and moving some things around. I'm particularly interested in moving the information about influences into the "Musical style" section (which is common in Wiki band articles) and moving "Other projects" below it. I'd really like to spend a day or so later going through the article and tweaking it, but I wanted to let everyone know first so I don't step on anyone's toes while editing and so others can discuss what needs to be done. WesleyDodds 10:47, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
I undid this good faith edit. I don't think detailed band member listing and instruments played info should be the second sentence. We need to establish U2 as a band first - which is what the article is about. ie, the lead should establish the most salient points first and work down from there. Also, they actually didn't really know each other. They 'knew of' each other they have said. Merbabu 08:42, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
I think everyone would like to see the most basic info first, but i don't see that in this or this. With the second diff here, the detailed background recording info got put in front of the opening general sentences describing the album. Thus, let me request that you expain all your changes clearly - even ask in advance for any major changes.
Having said that, let me add "Charity" to your suggested "Other projects and Influences" and "Musical style and themes" sections for major re-writes. These are important sections and have some good info, but I would agree whole-heartedly if you said they needed a re-write or condensing. kind regards Merbabu 01:06, 14 May 2007 (UTC) PS, i agree possibly the sound clips could be better described in the box if possible - the four were carefully chosen to meet the info in the article - ie, we didn't chose the big hits. I'll explain later if you want to put more info into describing them. regards Merbabu 01:08, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
The more i read it, the more i can see that amongst all the good info, there is a lot of rubbish. It is not ready for FA at the moment, but I am reluctant to suggest withdrawing the FAC as it is the best way to get feedback. i should point out that this is the second time I've found myself supporting a unilateral 'drive-by' nomination - ie, the editor who nominator has it seems never edited the article and has not involved himself with the FAC. In response to the latest comments, i found myself in a rush to cull info from the lead and other sections - but such a rush is not the best way. Merbabu 05:51, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
The FAC has been closed. I'd like to get editors' opinion. The last two FACs, maybe the last three, have been 'drive-by' nominations by editors who have had nothing to do with the article and failed to contribute to the FAC process after nominating. They made no effort to consult with regular contributers. It is now twice that I have found myself supporting an FAC for a half ready article. Thus, i suggest that next time the article gets such a non-consensus nomination that we go ahead and remove it on sight until there is consensus that the article is ready. I for one would certainly support a regular/significant editor who removed such a FAC nomination. What do we think? -- Merbabu 03:49, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
This is a list of things needed for the article that I'm compiling as I edit the article. I'll add more as they come to me. Strike each item out as they are addressed; the sooner they can can be provided the better.
I'm done for the night; I've got to sleep. I hope to do more tomorrow and I look forward to any discussion that might be brought up until then. WesleyDodds 11:57, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
This edit rightly cleaned up some sloppy writing, but maybe removed an important point. For all the publicity about Pop being a dance or electronic record, this arguably only applies to the first three songs. Furthermore, there is a great diversity of material - a point which the band themselves comment on: It’s very difficult to pin this record down. It’s not got any identity because it’s got so many. (Edge in Propaganda 25). Any ideas? Maybe 1/2 a sentence - more better writed than before. Merbabu 03:41, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
I think the History section is pretty much fine now. We should now move on to "Musical Style" and the Campaigning section. The Campaigning section seems particularly dry to me; it needs some rearranging and reworking, but I have no ideas on what to do. WesleyDodds 01:06, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Just to let everyone see the dialog behind the scenes, I'm cutting-and-pasting comments from user talk pages regarding the constant reverting of this edit.
From User talk:24.13.101.150:
From User talk:Reaper X:
From User talk:24.13.101.150:
24.13.101.150, you definitely seem to know what you're talking about; however, since Paul Vallely is a well-known writer and The Independent is a reputable source, you can't change the number of albums sold without finding a better "more official" reference, and replacing the reference. I have seen the discussion at the Interference forums here, but you simply can't change the Wikipedia article based on your own speculation -- see No Original Research. Wikipedia brown 04:11, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
So there it is, just so everyone knows. -- Reaper X 16:16, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Well nonetheless, we have to stick with what we got. This Paul Vallely character seems to be a reliable source in the meantime. I mean, he's a professional writer. Usually professional writers would research verified sources to make a claim such as that; I don't think he pulled the number 170 million out of his ass. But it would be nice to find another source that could verify/overrule that claim. Theres gotta be something out there. -- Reaper X 18:39, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
I know Merbabu won't be happy about the prospect, but can I ask if we have any sort of community consensus to go for yet another FA nomination? Frankly, I know that no one has the time to deal with the fallout right away, but I think if we all work together, we can address any other issues that the FA reviewers may have. I have nominated once before, and I didn't keep up with the comments as I should have; however, I learned my lesson and I won't make the same mistake again. You may think the article is still too shabby to be a Featured Article, but frankly, to me it looks very well-written as it is now. I can't see what else can be asked for in a featured article. Well-sourced, well-written, good pictures, good layout -- at this point, if this doesn't become a featured article, the Wikipedia reviewers are just being WAY too picky in my opinion. Here are specific arguments I'd like to cite for another FA nomination:
1.
Merbabu and
WesleyDodds did an excellent job culling and rewriting the history section. I can't see a thing wrong with it. The main criticism from the previous FAC nomination was that the history sections and the lead were too long and some of the facts presented lacked context or were altogether pointless. I don't see that being the case now. Thirty years of music by the biggest band in the world have been compressed into little more than 40 kilobytes of well-written, well-cited text. What more could you ask for?
2. I wrote 90% of the "Musical Themes" and "Campaigning" sections, and today they are almost identical to what I had originally wrote 4-5 months ago. There have been zero suggestions from other editors as to how to improve these sections for the last 4-5 months. I don't think anyone has a single clue as how to improve them. What I gather from Merbabu and WesleyDodds is that both sections need to be entirely rewritten. I have no problem with that. Please rewrite them as soon as possible. Start from scratch if you must. However as mentioned by WesleyDodds, at the end of the last FAC nomination, he has "no ideas on what to do". I think another FAC nomination will at least help give us some suggestions as to how to improve these sections. If you can think of any other way we can go about doing this, don't hesitate to say so here.
3. There is a strong correlation between major changes/revisions to the article and FA nominations. The article has reached a high-level of maturity, and as a result 99% of all changes that occur outside of FA nominations for the past 3 months have been either extremely negligible or vandalism. In this case, I believe the ends would justify the means: an FA nomination would either succeed in making U2 a featured article, or it would serve to improve the article (or both). In either case, the article benefits.
4. Merbabu, I don't understand your hesitation in having additional Featured Article nominations. The article doesn't all of a sudden "lose points" after failed nominations, so if anything, they improve the quality by providing feedback and direction for improvements. I realize that all of us need to manage the reviewers expectations and criticisms and we need the personal time to do this, but there won't be a time that all of us ( Merbabu, WesleyDodds, Kristbg, RattleandHum, etc, etc) will all of a sudden say, "we all have hours and hours of free time, let's nominate U2 for FA!!". I promise that I will participate more closely unlike last time I nominated the article in January, possibly a proper " drive-by nomination" since I didn't help in answering the criticisms from the reviewers. Moreover, as Berol suggested, if you feel the article isn't up to snuff (which it might not be, depending on your personal standards), you could always oppose the FA nomination. Or, if you have immediate reasons that this article should not be nominated, please point out your criticisms here and now, so we can all work towards addressing them when we each have some spare time.
In summary, I'm actively trying to build a consensus here, or at least begin a discussion for consensus. However, I don't see any Wikipedia policy or even guideline that requires a consensus for FA nomination to be achieved. If you feel strongly that we ABSOLUTELY SHOULDN'T start another FAC nomination for U2, please make your argument and convince me here. At worst, I would like to offer the article up for another Peer Review. Wikipedia brown 23:43, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Right now the Campaigning section needs the most work. We could also use another copyedit; I can ask a few fellow users to give it a look over. WesleyDodds 04:22, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
there is a new U2 WikiProject. everybody that is a regular editor of any u2 pages please join.
Who came up with that section name? Is that an actual quote or what? If not, it sounds a little POV to me... -- Reaper X 03:50, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
Well a suggestion would be to include that quote in some kind of prose in the section, and cite a reference. Without that, it leaves me wondering, "Where the fuck did that quote come from?!", and I'm sure it may do the same to other readers. -- Reaper X 03:13, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
Okay, i searched and found another Wikipedia article, All That You Can't Leave Behind actually, with a reference from Time. The quote is actually "[We're] reapplying for the job. What job? The best band in the world job", so I paraphrased it to "Reapplying for the...best band in the world" and made this edit. Look good? -- Reaper X 03:58, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
I don't think "Reapplying for Best Band In The World" is too POV. We at least have it referenced later in the section now. No one is saying THEY ARE the best band, they just tried to be. Not too POV at all. The idea of changing the other section names to some kind of similar format is pretty cool, but I'll stay neutral on that one. -- Reaper X 05:22, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
"Best" will always turn a wiki editor's head. My only question is if it applies to the last album/tour. If not, it would be like calling section 1.5 "Achtung Baby."-- Berol 16:54, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Hi all. In preparing for another FAC, I've gone through and I have identified areas where our inline citations can be improved. Don't misunderstand me on this one: (a) we already have an excellently referenced article, but there are a number of holes still and (b) I am NOT questioning the veracity of any of the sentences labelled, or suggesting they be removed, rather - they just need in-line cites.
I can probably find a lot of them and none look too hard. I hope others can help. thanks -- Merbabu 07:39, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
I've hidden the following:
My reliable sources show that they were selling out European and US concerts before the War tour. Merbabu 13:05, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
In the lead:
I have promised to someone to criticize this article. I stop at the lead first. I will continue with the rest of the article later. The current lead is still in a bad shape and it only contains too many overblown terms. — Indon ( reply) — 08:27, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Three of the band said in Pop interviews (and Brian Eno somewhere, too) that they were going to release Original Soundtracks as U2. Bono grumbled in print somewhere that the label said no. He tried to save it with a marketing plan proposal, but it didn't change the label's mind. They were good businessmen and covered it up for 2-3 years which makes sourcing that quite difficult. -- Berol 17:13, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
I saw in an edit that Image:U2-teenagers.jpg was missing a licence, because the uploader didn't know. So I've slapped {{ promophoto}} on it, that should save it from deletion. It already has a FU rationale, so it's good to go. -- Reaper X 03:26, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
I looked at the College Rock article and it had U2 listed. Was that a mistake or is College Rock suppost to be in the Genre area? CRBR 18:24, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi all. I am with the League of Copyeditors and have a style question. I have tried to stay aware of the UK's plural usage when refering to a band by name (i.e., "U2 are..."), but I am struggling with the words "band" and "group". In American English, these are singular terms that denote a group of people and therefore use a singule-tense verb, (i.e., "The band is..." or "The group is..."). To treat this as a plural, you'd have to specify the indvidiuals in the group, by saying, say "The band's members are". I've noticed substantial inconsistency throughout the article (is it just a US/UK English issue?) and would appreciate a final ruling before I go in and make universal changes. Please advise. Galena11 18:38, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
See hidden comments within article text starting with COPYEDITOR'S NOTE for issues/questions that I couldn't clarify. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Galena11 ( talk • contribs) 21:32, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Shouldn't we put some info about the new album for 2008, the band has been recording for the last year-year and a half? I know that some purists from here don't want any kind of info. But come on guys, the band recorded the album first with Rick Rubin, then with Eno and Lanois, there should be more info about it.
I second this. You look at virtually any other article who have had their most recent album out for a while and there's always a 'Future' or 'New Album' section. Why doesn't U2 have one? HTDAAB is nearly 3 years old! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.159.62.134 ( talk) 21:46, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
An anon has added detailed listings to the discography section. This is over the top for detail and should be removed, but they show no sign of discussing, or even leaving an edit summary. -- Merbabu 16:40, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
So it's been a while since the last FAC...half a year in fact, and the article has come a long way. Does anybody agree that this should be peer reviewed and have the FAC renewed? Note: check out the latest archive -- Reaper X 05:06, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm going to take another shot at the aricle once I wrap up my FA projects at the end of the month. Not only that, but I picked up the U2 by U2 hardcover for only eight dollars on clearance. WesleyDodds 05:26, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
The section "Reapplying for the best band in the world" covers too much time. The other sections all cover no more than 3 years, this one covers 6 years and counting. I tried changing it and somebody changed it, so I'm bringing it here to be properly discussed. Also Bono has said that the album has a new sound to it, unlike the last two which were intended to recreate their old albums. That's a change in style as far as I'm concerned, and it merits a new section. 75pickup ( talk · contribs) 20:46, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Just wanted to drop a note that the article looks better than ever. I just added refs for all the remaining "citations needed". At this point, I agree with Reaper X's comments above -- would anybody be peeved if I submitted for another FA nomination (or shall we go for a peer review)? It's been a while since the last one, and it would be good to get some feedback. Thanks. Wikipedia brown ( talk) 18:28, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Didn't hear anything back so I nominated the article for a Peer Review. Wikipedia brown ( talk) 01:57, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
Nothing on the Peer Review, so I nominated for FA. Wikipedia brown ( talk) 05:31, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Its stated that: "The album met with mixed reviews and received no radio play". It is true that it received mixed reviews due in part to the more serious aspects of the messages in the album tracks, but it is totally incorrect to say it got no radio play. It in fact got extensive radio play. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.46.188.97 ( talk) 22:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
No, I dont have a source to hand, other than my own ears at the time, and no doubt Dave Fanning (of RTE Radio 2) played it extensively on his nightly radio show, as did others. Gloria was a popular hit, the album was eagerly anticipated after the Boy album and was played in its entirety on the radio after its release, track by track.
I also dont have a source that it rained in Ireland in 1981 the year of October's release, but I assure you it did. Gloria and other tracks from the album were included in U2's playset for many years afterwards.
By the way, there is no source cited that it received no radio play ! :-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.46.188.97 ( talk) 00:03, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi there. I have the book beside me. I think Adam may have been referring to little radio play and lack of a push from the record companies, perhaps in the US. "No Radio Play" is also a hiberno-english euphemism for "not as much as expected" eg: there was no-one there, doesnt actually mean there were no people at a gig, for example. It is clear that the record was not as expected. As Bono says on the same page of the book, perhaps they listened to too much Joy Division. It was a melancholic piece of work, and is oft overlooked. By the way, we shouldnt take what any of the 4 lads say as gospel. On the same page Bono states that Hanover Quay is in the centre of new Dublin. He's out by a couple of miles! 194.46.254.160 ( talk) 23:25, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
By the way, I found out that Gloria peaked at No.10 in the Irish Charts, and was in the charts for 4 weeks, whereas Fire reached No.4 before that and was in the charts for 9 weeks. Both of these were a lot more succesful than Out of Control (from Boy) which only managed No.19. Source: www.irishcharts.ie/facts/most_hits.htm (page down for U2's list). I've updated the Gloria page with that data. 194.46.254.160 ( talk) 23:53, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
Let me be the first to congratulate everyone who has worked so hard on this article to promote it to FA. Merbabu and WikipediaBrown, you two should be especially proud of all the time and effort you have put into this. Congratulations guys! MelicansMatkin ( talk) 03:09, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
I must admit I am disappointed that the article got promoted so quickly (less than a week at FAC). I was about to leave some comments at the FAC when I discovered the article listed at the Featured Articles page. There still some issues that needs to be taken care of. One is that not all the references are formatted properly (there's some web references that only list the page name). Another is that the prose in the Influences and Campaigning and Activism section is still weak. I'd like to do some involved work on the page to alleviate some of my concerns, if no one minds. WesleyDodds ( talk) 11:19, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | → | Archive 8 |
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Would anybody mind awfully if I took the flag down? I recently removed the Union Jack from The Clash and I think the same argument I used there applies here as well. Flags seem more appropriate on say national football teams and the like. U2 are a national symbol of Ireland, but I do not see them as being particularly nationalistic; indeed they are internationalists. -- Guinnog 20:51, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes I actually DO mind and I'm putting the flag back up. It seems pretty "dumb" to say the least to take the flags off of the Clash's and U2's whilst leaving these high profile bands's infoboxes with their flag. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18]
Regards, Billtheking 16:38, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Snow patrol also has the flag
[19], If you where truly interested you would take that flag off, seeing how its controversial in its own country and not even official, with half the population pretty much hating it.
Dudesleeper, it is obviously some kind of wikipolicy to place flagicons in the infoboxes with famous bands. ATM I have seen no real/valid reasons as to why the flag should be removed. The reason why it should be up there is to illustrate the bands origins in an aesthetic way. That is why it is obviously done at ALL the other bands. Billtheking 08:14, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
I cannot find any such policy and I don't find it aesthetic. On the other hand I did find WP:FLAG. Furthermore your edit seems to be against consensus. -- Guinnog 08:29, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
So Bono, The Edge, Adam Clayton, and Larry Mullen, Jr. all can have flags on their pages but U2 cant? Are you going to remove all the flags of all the famous bands pages, or are you just going to keep doing it at U2? Billtheking 08:34, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
You speak of consensus, yet on ALL the other prolific bands pages there is the obvious consensus of the flags being there. As to calling you dumb, that was not my intent and I apologise, it just struck me as a weird idea. Billtheking 08:38, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
"indeed they are internationalists." That doesn't say a whole lot, RHCP see themselves as Californians, yet you don't see the bear in their infobox right? Billtheking 08:45, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
You honestly believe that is worthy of an encyclopædia? Do you know the term uniformity and what it means for Wikipedia? Billtheking 10:35, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Why do I get the idea that it is not a good idea for the lay-out and contents infoboxes (of similar articles) to be changed at random?? Shouldn't we have uniformity? As I said, the flag illustrates in an aesthetic way the country of origin. Billtheking 11:59, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
It seems you are in the minority seeing how pages from American presidents to Kofi Annan and Bono have flags, do you see them being removed? No, but for some freakish reason 3 persons here seem to dislike the Irish flag on this page. Billtheking 13:14, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Seeing how WP:FLAG is not a policy, isn't there some sort of request for a new policy or something alike on band userboxes? Billtheking 13:33, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Now, I have never heard U2s music let alone bought their records but I am rather intrigued by them.I have heard that the parents of two members are British -the parents were 1) a professor of English who took up a post at Trinity College Dublin 2)another moved his family to Ireland to become head of training for Air Lingus-he had been head of training for British Airways which meant -at that time- he would have been originally a senior Royal Air Force officer.The Mount Temple Comprehensive was a British style school and was known locally (wrongly) as The British School At this school they met two British boys from Northern Ireland -the Mullens whose grandfather had been a Bishop in the Irish Church of England .Paul Hewson had a father from Northern ireland and a Catholic mother.He obviously preferred a British style education to an Irish catholic one. The rock music they played was at that time overwhelmingly a British creation
--None of U2's parents was a Professor in any University. Adam's father was a pilot with Aer Lingus. mount Temple comp was non-demoninational school which was rare in Ireland of the 1970s. Bono's father was Catholic and from dublin, his mother was Protestant. That means NOTHING about his own preferences of education. Please read up on thing before you make ridiculous claims. I can go into this at greater length but I feel you would be better served by actually rteading up on U2.
I am puzzled therefore why they are so much considered an "Irish "band.They have more connection with Britain than Ireland surely ? If you disagree you must admit they cant really be called an Irish band -"international " is a reasonable choice
It is also strange that nothing is ever written about this,or their families.Every one knows everything about the Beatles and many other pop groups but nothing is available about their families or brothers?sisters? most presumably living and working happily in England ? If anyone has any information I would love to hear it. I am interested partly because these are boys from frankly at that time,rather snobby professional backgounds and very British at that-yet we never hear about them-its all kept a secret I have sometimes wondered if the U2 name -of the famous spy plane-was connected to the idea that their families were actually spying for the British in some way...Its a thought!!! Aberdale 21:39, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
This was recently added. [20] I don't think it is necessary. In fact, is there already such a list on wikiepdia? If not, it can be created and the article directed there. Merbabu 11:13, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
I've expanded the campaigning section as was requested during the FA nomination. Please give it a look-see and ADD REFERENCES for me (only fair, because chances are I've added a reference to your writing, if you've written for this article!). Wikipedia brown 02:37, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
This is the second time this article has been nominated in only a few weeks. Both times it has been done unilaterally and without consulting other editors. It is far to premature and i doubt very much it will get FA. If it does, then FA is meaningless. On the other hand, the current FAC is getting a lot of useful comments and attention, the majority of which i believe should be implemented. (while the peer review process didn't get much feedback at all). Please consult other editors before nomination again. thanks Merbabu 02:55, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
There seems to be a fair bit of disagreement over what the info box should contain. I have two issues:
Hi, I'd like to know IF YOU can change the Main Picture. It's an awful out of focus photograph. We're talking about the best Rock Band in the World,so the picture must be equal and not less.
there's a list of artists that have made cover versions of their songs, presumably the one's who's covers were a bit more famous or well known, yet, no where does the article mention mary j. blige's collaboration with u2 with 'one' which charted pretty well.... any explaination? Jgrizzy89 04:33, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I see:
McCormick (ed), Neil (2006). U2 by U2. London: HarperCollinsPublishers, pp.46-48. ISBN 0-00-719668-7.
U2 Limited (2006). U2 by U2. London: HarperCollinsPublishers, 151. ISBN 0-00-719668-7.
Adam Clayton:U2 Limited (2006). U2 by U2. London: HarperCollinsPublishers, p.147. ISBN 0-00-719668-7.
The Edge U2 Limited (2006). U2 by U2. London: HarperCollinsPublishers, 151. ISBN 0-00-719668-7.
Bono, The Edge, Adam Clayton, Larry Mullen Jr U2 by U2, pg. 249, 2006, Harper Collins, ISBN 0-06-077675-77 (mine, oops)
These are all the same book. Since it is listed as a "source", can't we change all of these to "McCormick (ed), 2006, pg#"?
Wikipedia brown
01:38, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure I didn't mention before and you guys dumped it, but U2's first product was a set of badges ordered from Better Badges in the UK in 78, saying "could happen to anyone" They are illustrated on this page. At Better Badges at the time, we ran under the slogan Image As Virus - Disease As Cure an informal punk equivalent of the GFDL. Bands submitted artwork, ordered a few, and then we disposed of as many as possible, and encouraged reproduction. These designs were very much in that spirit. Joly (ex=BB) Wwwhatsup 11:45, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Sound files that are here should be chosen to directly support what is being described in the article - they should not be chosen simply cos they are great or very famous songs. They should contribute context to the written information, not be there to show off U2's most famous songs.
We have four sound files of which i think two are a good, supportive choices. ie, Sunday Bloody Sunday and Vertigo are both representative of the hard hitting sound strived for on their albums. Furthermore, SBS has that political flavour of the War album while Vertigo has that "boys and their rock'n'roll" sound to it.
The other two, Pride and One, although great songs, are not good choices. Being the most conventional U2 sound of their respective albums, they do NOT showcase the new sounds, ie the basic idea, of either of these albums. I suggest they be changed. For the Unforgettable Fire, I suggest "A Sort of Homecoming", or "The Unforgettable Fire". They are both more representative of what is being said about that album. As for Achtung Baby, One doesn't represent that album's mood like "Zoo Station" or "The Fly", or maybe even "mysterious Ways".
Does anyone know how to create new music files? -- Merbabu 12:30, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
"Pride" is worth including for its historical context because it was the band's first American Top 40 hit. The page should also have one of their earliest singles, and definitely something from The Joshua Tree.
This may be pushing it but I think it'd be a pretty good idea to include a song from every album, to offer a piece from every U2 sound-period -- every U2 album, especially after their first three albums (which were pretty post-punk) has its' own sound. What do you guys think...? RattleandHum 04:54, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
I don't necessarily think the word usage for the statement under their activism section that says: "The ONE Campaign, has been shaped in no small way by his efforts and vision" is worded properly... Couldn't it just say: "The ONE Campaign, has been shaped by his efforts and vision." ? It just sounds better... Any objections? Jgrizzy89 05:48, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- Dudesleeper · Talk 15:59, 3 February 2007 (UTC)Current_members (groups): Current members of the group, listed in order of joining with no other notation than names.
but why keep deleting anyone's further input WITHIN the article, listing full instrumentation? yes, true, let us keep the info clear of it, but let's have a compromise, wouldn't you agree? what has been put anyway is what appears in their CD booklets, there really is no reason to delete it. 69.182.90.72 21:22, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Guys, I haven't seen much in the way of activity on this page in the last couple of days, so in order to stir things up a bit (I do love playing the role of the rabblerouser), I've added a first stab at a styles/themes section. Please feel free to add, refine, and remove detail as you see fit. I will add references shortly. Hope to see some constructive edits made to this much-needed section! Wikipedia brown 07:11, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Encyclopedia articles are not blogs.
Just noticed that the article is now the second non-google link in a Google search. It used to be third under atu2.com. We're moving on up. Just wish we had a better main picture (with Larry actually playing drums). Speaking of which, I found this (potentially better) picture on http://www.u2-vertigo-tour.com/tourpictures/. Unfortunately you can't see Adam's face and it's not as high res as the one that's there. Please let me know if you think this would make a better picture, and I'll email the guy who took it to see if he would creative commons license it. Otherwise, I was thinking we could splice together a bunch of pictures of each bandmember. Thoughts? Wikipedia brown 19:28, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
RattleandHum 22:25, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
RattleandHum 04:38, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Stevie Wonder now has 22 Grammys after this year's Grammy awards (he won for best collaboration with Tony Bennett, which interestingly enough was up against Mary J Blige's rendition of One with U2). This means that U2 is now tied for 1st. Wikipedia brown 06:51, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Wouldn't it make sense to have the single releases in the discography section as well? I am not much into editing music articles, so I honestly don't know. -- RichiH 11:42, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
The political website Counterpunch.org carry articles that often critique U2 & Bono's social activism. I feel the need to add this 67.53.78.15 04:56, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
See above. 212.85.12.94 11:50, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
U2 are a rock band from Dublin, Ireland. Shouldn't it be U2 is a rock band from Dublin, Ireland?—Preceding unsigned comment added by Ootmc ( talk • contribs) 20:05, 31 March 2007
On most U2 album articles there is a link to a review by Robert Christgau. link. I strongly feel that this page is not a real review by a respected source - most of the time he just writes a couple of sentence on each album, sometimes nothing at all. Plus, I've never heard of him. I removed all the links only to have them replaced, so can we have some consensus on this? Willnz0 22:52, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
For verification: Today I met a friend and we began talking about local bands. He's someone who is not given to making things up; he's a quiet Australian of Scottish descent who I've known about 10 years. He recalled being in Carlisle, Cumbria in 1979 and seeing a sign on a pub for a band playing that night: U2. He went to the gig and "there were about 20 people there including the band". He said that, among those present, were Kate Bush and Sid Vicious and he talked to both of them. (My friend said Sid gave Kate some tickets to a gig, and she passed them to him, "my Aussie friend".) This is where I'm beginning to get the jitters about the story, as Sid died in February 1979, and Kate was just then a new star. He said the pub was the "Seben Stars" (sic; yes, I queried him about the spelling!) Is there anyone from Carlisle who can verify the venue or the occasion? (The pub name does not come up on any search engine I've used.) Peter Ellis 06:48, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
How much you want to bet someone will add something about this to the page within the next 24 hours [22]? Wikipedia brown 17:05, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
Hey all I'm new to wiki, anyways I just referenced the spiderman musical, original fix was by 69.231.250.170 I think. 76.19.30.95 06:41, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
Sorry about adding that without mentioning it here. It's on the front page of the Life section of the April 20th edition of the USA Today that Bono and The Edge will indeed be writing most/all of the score for a Spider-Man musical. So, i'll let one of you guys look it up and add it to the article after you find it. --- Dirtylemons666 18:18, 23 April 2007
I don't like (sometimes detailed) running commentaries on developing events in an encyclopedia which I should feel should move a bit slower an record things that have actually happened and are significant. Thus I don't know that we need to list a so-far non-existant U2 album in the list of albums, and the article should only make a brief description of the work towards it. If we want up to date but transient information we should go to a newspaper or rock journal. In fact, i just removed it. Merbabu 04:48, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Though it can be debated whether or not these bands have influenced U2, they are not major influences. The bands that are listed as major influences (The Who, The Clash, The Ramones, The Beatles) are frequently brought up by the band themselves as large inspirations and even tributed to in their sound. Of course, the band has other influences -- but this section should be for major influences only; otherwise, it'll make the article -- and that particular section, of course -- too long, as the article is pretty long as it is. If we were to put every influence of U2, or any band for that matter, it'd need it's own page to list them all. Therefore, the four that are listed are enough for major influences. 155.43.23.114 17:44, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
By the way, we need a more reliable cite for The Beatles. Has anyone seen the link cited? Not quite a reliable source. WesleyDodds 10:50, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
167.230.38.115 ( talk) 17:20, 7 December 2007 (UTC) Bono learned everything he knows from David Gahan 167.230.38.115 ( talk) 17:20, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
user TheFuzzyFive had changed the lead to cover potential confusion between YouTube and U2, I am not sure this could occur and reverted it; thoughts? -- Parhamr 03:24, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
The result was no merger. -- Crashintome4196 05:02, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
The article U2's 16th album should be merged into this article because the album does not yet have enough information or even a title to have its own article at this point. – Crashintome4196 03:41, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
I spent some time culling info in this section. The section was long but had very little info that was notable enough for the main page on U2 a band with 30 year history. SOrry, but it was a tedious read. It was full of statistics, dates, and overly detailed listings awards. It's a lot shorter now - some info is already in sub-articles and other overly detailed, even tedious, info I pushed down into footnotes, and other info i just remove redundancies in language, so no actual info is gone. This is the diff [23] but it is best viewed in the article itself - as most info is now in footnotes. Salient points..
The section does need a bit more on the album and tour's themes, motivations, etc. The Joshua Tree and Unforgettable Fire sections do this well in my opinion, whilst the HTDAAB section is very shallow in contrast. It is just discusses of iPod/Apple and chart positions (which i condensed last week). These are important of course, but in detail and on their own - "snore!". At most three well-referenced sentences is what we need to add; I will research later, but off the top of my head:
Any thoughts? -- Merbabu 03:12, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
I added a bit - from a Rolling Stone mag. We could probably get a bit more quality info in but anything more than a sentence, I'd like to see some of the other condensed - do we need all those stats and dates? Can some go to album, tour and song articles? Merbabu 03:28, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
In regard to the question of whether Joy Division/New Order should be considered a "major influence" on U2, it looks as if this anonymous user is the only one who objects. I strongly suspect that the IPs [ [24]], [ [25]], and[ [26]] are actually the same person, who continues to delete content from the article not in keeping with his POV. As this is the case, can the article be protected to put an end to his vandalism? --- Charles 18:04, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
In the "Other Projects" section, please include that Bono and the Edge scored the London stage version of Italic textA Clockwork OrangeItalic text in 1990. I was in London and saw it at the time. It was forgettable. 65.208.235.66 21:19, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Actually, I was speaking more of the play than the music. Still it was significant in that it was a production with the Royal Shakespeare Company. Also, music from this influneced/morphed into the style of Actung Baby. See this reference: [ [27]] and [ [28]]
I actually agree that it should at least be brought up (if it hasn't already :) ) mainly due to the fact that a song that was done for the project was subsequently released on The Fly (song) single... Jgrizzy89 16:59, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm quite aware that the article is at its third FAC right now and I have some ideas on how to spruce it up: mainly streamlining prose, combining paragraphs, and moving some things around. I'm particularly interested in moving the information about influences into the "Musical style" section (which is common in Wiki band articles) and moving "Other projects" below it. I'd really like to spend a day or so later going through the article and tweaking it, but I wanted to let everyone know first so I don't step on anyone's toes while editing and so others can discuss what needs to be done. WesleyDodds 10:47, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
I undid this good faith edit. I don't think detailed band member listing and instruments played info should be the second sentence. We need to establish U2 as a band first - which is what the article is about. ie, the lead should establish the most salient points first and work down from there. Also, they actually didn't really know each other. They 'knew of' each other they have said. Merbabu 08:42, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
I think everyone would like to see the most basic info first, but i don't see that in this or this. With the second diff here, the detailed background recording info got put in front of the opening general sentences describing the album. Thus, let me request that you expain all your changes clearly - even ask in advance for any major changes.
Having said that, let me add "Charity" to your suggested "Other projects and Influences" and "Musical style and themes" sections for major re-writes. These are important sections and have some good info, but I would agree whole-heartedly if you said they needed a re-write or condensing. kind regards Merbabu 01:06, 14 May 2007 (UTC) PS, i agree possibly the sound clips could be better described in the box if possible - the four were carefully chosen to meet the info in the article - ie, we didn't chose the big hits. I'll explain later if you want to put more info into describing them. regards Merbabu 01:08, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
The more i read it, the more i can see that amongst all the good info, there is a lot of rubbish. It is not ready for FA at the moment, but I am reluctant to suggest withdrawing the FAC as it is the best way to get feedback. i should point out that this is the second time I've found myself supporting a unilateral 'drive-by' nomination - ie, the editor who nominator has it seems never edited the article and has not involved himself with the FAC. In response to the latest comments, i found myself in a rush to cull info from the lead and other sections - but such a rush is not the best way. Merbabu 05:51, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
The FAC has been closed. I'd like to get editors' opinion. The last two FACs, maybe the last three, have been 'drive-by' nominations by editors who have had nothing to do with the article and failed to contribute to the FAC process after nominating. They made no effort to consult with regular contributers. It is now twice that I have found myself supporting an FAC for a half ready article. Thus, i suggest that next time the article gets such a non-consensus nomination that we go ahead and remove it on sight until there is consensus that the article is ready. I for one would certainly support a regular/significant editor who removed such a FAC nomination. What do we think? -- Merbabu 03:49, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
This is a list of things needed for the article that I'm compiling as I edit the article. I'll add more as they come to me. Strike each item out as they are addressed; the sooner they can can be provided the better.
I'm done for the night; I've got to sleep. I hope to do more tomorrow and I look forward to any discussion that might be brought up until then. WesleyDodds 11:57, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
This edit rightly cleaned up some sloppy writing, but maybe removed an important point. For all the publicity about Pop being a dance or electronic record, this arguably only applies to the first three songs. Furthermore, there is a great diversity of material - a point which the band themselves comment on: It’s very difficult to pin this record down. It’s not got any identity because it’s got so many. (Edge in Propaganda 25). Any ideas? Maybe 1/2 a sentence - more better writed than before. Merbabu 03:41, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
I think the History section is pretty much fine now. We should now move on to "Musical Style" and the Campaigning section. The Campaigning section seems particularly dry to me; it needs some rearranging and reworking, but I have no ideas on what to do. WesleyDodds 01:06, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Just to let everyone see the dialog behind the scenes, I'm cutting-and-pasting comments from user talk pages regarding the constant reverting of this edit.
From User talk:24.13.101.150:
From User talk:Reaper X:
From User talk:24.13.101.150:
24.13.101.150, you definitely seem to know what you're talking about; however, since Paul Vallely is a well-known writer and The Independent is a reputable source, you can't change the number of albums sold without finding a better "more official" reference, and replacing the reference. I have seen the discussion at the Interference forums here, but you simply can't change the Wikipedia article based on your own speculation -- see No Original Research. Wikipedia brown 04:11, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
So there it is, just so everyone knows. -- Reaper X 16:16, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Well nonetheless, we have to stick with what we got. This Paul Vallely character seems to be a reliable source in the meantime. I mean, he's a professional writer. Usually professional writers would research verified sources to make a claim such as that; I don't think he pulled the number 170 million out of his ass. But it would be nice to find another source that could verify/overrule that claim. Theres gotta be something out there. -- Reaper X 18:39, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
I know Merbabu won't be happy about the prospect, but can I ask if we have any sort of community consensus to go for yet another FA nomination? Frankly, I know that no one has the time to deal with the fallout right away, but I think if we all work together, we can address any other issues that the FA reviewers may have. I have nominated once before, and I didn't keep up with the comments as I should have; however, I learned my lesson and I won't make the same mistake again. You may think the article is still too shabby to be a Featured Article, but frankly, to me it looks very well-written as it is now. I can't see what else can be asked for in a featured article. Well-sourced, well-written, good pictures, good layout -- at this point, if this doesn't become a featured article, the Wikipedia reviewers are just being WAY too picky in my opinion. Here are specific arguments I'd like to cite for another FA nomination:
1.
Merbabu and
WesleyDodds did an excellent job culling and rewriting the history section. I can't see a thing wrong with it. The main criticism from the previous FAC nomination was that the history sections and the lead were too long and some of the facts presented lacked context or were altogether pointless. I don't see that being the case now. Thirty years of music by the biggest band in the world have been compressed into little more than 40 kilobytes of well-written, well-cited text. What more could you ask for?
2. I wrote 90% of the "Musical Themes" and "Campaigning" sections, and today they are almost identical to what I had originally wrote 4-5 months ago. There have been zero suggestions from other editors as to how to improve these sections for the last 4-5 months. I don't think anyone has a single clue as how to improve them. What I gather from Merbabu and WesleyDodds is that both sections need to be entirely rewritten. I have no problem with that. Please rewrite them as soon as possible. Start from scratch if you must. However as mentioned by WesleyDodds, at the end of the last FAC nomination, he has "no ideas on what to do". I think another FAC nomination will at least help give us some suggestions as to how to improve these sections. If you can think of any other way we can go about doing this, don't hesitate to say so here.
3. There is a strong correlation between major changes/revisions to the article and FA nominations. The article has reached a high-level of maturity, and as a result 99% of all changes that occur outside of FA nominations for the past 3 months have been either extremely negligible or vandalism. In this case, I believe the ends would justify the means: an FA nomination would either succeed in making U2 a featured article, or it would serve to improve the article (or both). In either case, the article benefits.
4. Merbabu, I don't understand your hesitation in having additional Featured Article nominations. The article doesn't all of a sudden "lose points" after failed nominations, so if anything, they improve the quality by providing feedback and direction for improvements. I realize that all of us need to manage the reviewers expectations and criticisms and we need the personal time to do this, but there won't be a time that all of us ( Merbabu, WesleyDodds, Kristbg, RattleandHum, etc, etc) will all of a sudden say, "we all have hours and hours of free time, let's nominate U2 for FA!!". I promise that I will participate more closely unlike last time I nominated the article in January, possibly a proper " drive-by nomination" since I didn't help in answering the criticisms from the reviewers. Moreover, as Berol suggested, if you feel the article isn't up to snuff (which it might not be, depending on your personal standards), you could always oppose the FA nomination. Or, if you have immediate reasons that this article should not be nominated, please point out your criticisms here and now, so we can all work towards addressing them when we each have some spare time.
In summary, I'm actively trying to build a consensus here, or at least begin a discussion for consensus. However, I don't see any Wikipedia policy or even guideline that requires a consensus for FA nomination to be achieved. If you feel strongly that we ABSOLUTELY SHOULDN'T start another FAC nomination for U2, please make your argument and convince me here. At worst, I would like to offer the article up for another Peer Review. Wikipedia brown 23:43, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Right now the Campaigning section needs the most work. We could also use another copyedit; I can ask a few fellow users to give it a look over. WesleyDodds 04:22, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
there is a new U2 WikiProject. everybody that is a regular editor of any u2 pages please join.
Who came up with that section name? Is that an actual quote or what? If not, it sounds a little POV to me... -- Reaper X 03:50, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
Well a suggestion would be to include that quote in some kind of prose in the section, and cite a reference. Without that, it leaves me wondering, "Where the fuck did that quote come from?!", and I'm sure it may do the same to other readers. -- Reaper X 03:13, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
Okay, i searched and found another Wikipedia article, All That You Can't Leave Behind actually, with a reference from Time. The quote is actually "[We're] reapplying for the job. What job? The best band in the world job", so I paraphrased it to "Reapplying for the...best band in the world" and made this edit. Look good? -- Reaper X 03:58, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
I don't think "Reapplying for Best Band In The World" is too POV. We at least have it referenced later in the section now. No one is saying THEY ARE the best band, they just tried to be. Not too POV at all. The idea of changing the other section names to some kind of similar format is pretty cool, but I'll stay neutral on that one. -- Reaper X 05:22, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
"Best" will always turn a wiki editor's head. My only question is if it applies to the last album/tour. If not, it would be like calling section 1.5 "Achtung Baby."-- Berol 16:54, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Hi all. In preparing for another FAC, I've gone through and I have identified areas where our inline citations can be improved. Don't misunderstand me on this one: (a) we already have an excellently referenced article, but there are a number of holes still and (b) I am NOT questioning the veracity of any of the sentences labelled, or suggesting they be removed, rather - they just need in-line cites.
I can probably find a lot of them and none look too hard. I hope others can help. thanks -- Merbabu 07:39, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
I've hidden the following:
My reliable sources show that they were selling out European and US concerts before the War tour. Merbabu 13:05, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
In the lead:
I have promised to someone to criticize this article. I stop at the lead first. I will continue with the rest of the article later. The current lead is still in a bad shape and it only contains too many overblown terms. — Indon ( reply) — 08:27, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Three of the band said in Pop interviews (and Brian Eno somewhere, too) that they were going to release Original Soundtracks as U2. Bono grumbled in print somewhere that the label said no. He tried to save it with a marketing plan proposal, but it didn't change the label's mind. They were good businessmen and covered it up for 2-3 years which makes sourcing that quite difficult. -- Berol 17:13, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
I saw in an edit that Image:U2-teenagers.jpg was missing a licence, because the uploader didn't know. So I've slapped {{ promophoto}} on it, that should save it from deletion. It already has a FU rationale, so it's good to go. -- Reaper X 03:26, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
I looked at the College Rock article and it had U2 listed. Was that a mistake or is College Rock suppost to be in the Genre area? CRBR 18:24, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi all. I am with the League of Copyeditors and have a style question. I have tried to stay aware of the UK's plural usage when refering to a band by name (i.e., "U2 are..."), but I am struggling with the words "band" and "group". In American English, these are singular terms that denote a group of people and therefore use a singule-tense verb, (i.e., "The band is..." or "The group is..."). To treat this as a plural, you'd have to specify the indvidiuals in the group, by saying, say "The band's members are". I've noticed substantial inconsistency throughout the article (is it just a US/UK English issue?) and would appreciate a final ruling before I go in and make universal changes. Please advise. Galena11 18:38, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
See hidden comments within article text starting with COPYEDITOR'S NOTE for issues/questions that I couldn't clarify. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Galena11 ( talk • contribs) 21:32, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Shouldn't we put some info about the new album for 2008, the band has been recording for the last year-year and a half? I know that some purists from here don't want any kind of info. But come on guys, the band recorded the album first with Rick Rubin, then with Eno and Lanois, there should be more info about it.
I second this. You look at virtually any other article who have had their most recent album out for a while and there's always a 'Future' or 'New Album' section. Why doesn't U2 have one? HTDAAB is nearly 3 years old! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.159.62.134 ( talk) 21:46, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
An anon has added detailed listings to the discography section. This is over the top for detail and should be removed, but they show no sign of discussing, or even leaving an edit summary. -- Merbabu 16:40, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
So it's been a while since the last FAC...half a year in fact, and the article has come a long way. Does anybody agree that this should be peer reviewed and have the FAC renewed? Note: check out the latest archive -- Reaper X 05:06, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm going to take another shot at the aricle once I wrap up my FA projects at the end of the month. Not only that, but I picked up the U2 by U2 hardcover for only eight dollars on clearance. WesleyDodds 05:26, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
The section "Reapplying for the best band in the world" covers too much time. The other sections all cover no more than 3 years, this one covers 6 years and counting. I tried changing it and somebody changed it, so I'm bringing it here to be properly discussed. Also Bono has said that the album has a new sound to it, unlike the last two which were intended to recreate their old albums. That's a change in style as far as I'm concerned, and it merits a new section. 75pickup ( talk · contribs) 20:46, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Just wanted to drop a note that the article looks better than ever. I just added refs for all the remaining "citations needed". At this point, I agree with Reaper X's comments above -- would anybody be peeved if I submitted for another FA nomination (or shall we go for a peer review)? It's been a while since the last one, and it would be good to get some feedback. Thanks. Wikipedia brown ( talk) 18:28, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Didn't hear anything back so I nominated the article for a Peer Review. Wikipedia brown ( talk) 01:57, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
Nothing on the Peer Review, so I nominated for FA. Wikipedia brown ( talk) 05:31, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Its stated that: "The album met with mixed reviews and received no radio play". It is true that it received mixed reviews due in part to the more serious aspects of the messages in the album tracks, but it is totally incorrect to say it got no radio play. It in fact got extensive radio play. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.46.188.97 ( talk) 22:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
No, I dont have a source to hand, other than my own ears at the time, and no doubt Dave Fanning (of RTE Radio 2) played it extensively on his nightly radio show, as did others. Gloria was a popular hit, the album was eagerly anticipated after the Boy album and was played in its entirety on the radio after its release, track by track.
I also dont have a source that it rained in Ireland in 1981 the year of October's release, but I assure you it did. Gloria and other tracks from the album were included in U2's playset for many years afterwards.
By the way, there is no source cited that it received no radio play ! :-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.46.188.97 ( talk) 00:03, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi there. I have the book beside me. I think Adam may have been referring to little radio play and lack of a push from the record companies, perhaps in the US. "No Radio Play" is also a hiberno-english euphemism for "not as much as expected" eg: there was no-one there, doesnt actually mean there were no people at a gig, for example. It is clear that the record was not as expected. As Bono says on the same page of the book, perhaps they listened to too much Joy Division. It was a melancholic piece of work, and is oft overlooked. By the way, we shouldnt take what any of the 4 lads say as gospel. On the same page Bono states that Hanover Quay is in the centre of new Dublin. He's out by a couple of miles! 194.46.254.160 ( talk) 23:25, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
By the way, I found out that Gloria peaked at No.10 in the Irish Charts, and was in the charts for 4 weeks, whereas Fire reached No.4 before that and was in the charts for 9 weeks. Both of these were a lot more succesful than Out of Control (from Boy) which only managed No.19. Source: www.irishcharts.ie/facts/most_hits.htm (page down for U2's list). I've updated the Gloria page with that data. 194.46.254.160 ( talk) 23:53, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
Let me be the first to congratulate everyone who has worked so hard on this article to promote it to FA. Merbabu and WikipediaBrown, you two should be especially proud of all the time and effort you have put into this. Congratulations guys! MelicansMatkin ( talk) 03:09, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
I must admit I am disappointed that the article got promoted so quickly (less than a week at FAC). I was about to leave some comments at the FAC when I discovered the article listed at the Featured Articles page. There still some issues that needs to be taken care of. One is that not all the references are formatted properly (there's some web references that only list the page name). Another is that the prose in the Influences and Campaigning and Activism section is still weak. I'd like to do some involved work on the page to alleviate some of my concerns, if no one minds. WesleyDodds ( talk) 11:19, 23 January 2008 (UTC)