![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 8 |
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
There has been some changes re Rattle and Hum's status as either a studio or live album and some talk behind the scenes. The (difficult?) reality is it is BOTH a studio and live album, not one or the other. Personally, i think it should also be categorised as both including listing it both a studio list and a live list. For me that is a practical solution to the "issue". But i know some "purists" will say it needs to go in one or the other. I refer to its listing both on this article and also on U2 discography.
Some background: R&H was released late 1988 approx 18months after the Joshua Tree’s release in Mar 1987. In that time the band went on the Joshua Tree Tour. ON the tour they wrote and recorded some new songs and in early 1988 lived in the states writing further material and recording material for the R&H album and film. The album and film were intended to simultaneously document parts of the Joshua Tree and U2's professed fascination and learning of American music (ie, Blues, Jazz, gospel, etc). It has 17 songs:
It has been suggested here in the past that because the live tracks are supposedly "only" outtakes from the Joshua Tree, then it is not a studio album. I say, even if they are only outtakes, but had never been released previously, then it is still a studio album.
But, the 9 studio tracks are released here for the first time and all recorded AFTER the Joshua Tree was released - in fact 6 out of the 9 I believe were written POST-Joshua Tree. Thus, the definition of outtakes is a stretch.
This is similar to Zooropa and Pop. Sure, they were all “completed” and recorded for the albums, but much (most?) of Zooropa were left overs from Achtung Baby, and the same thing for Pop which was largely Zoropa and Achtung outtakes too. Of course, they were incomplete, but heavily worked up for album inclusion.
The 9 studio songs...
Someone should add this info. -- rgawenda 02:00, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
With all the fact tags, how can this article be called good? Jimcripps 05:17, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
I think there should be one or two sentences about Ground Beneath Her Feet and songs off the soundtrack (Stateless mainly). I'm going to add something under the collaborations sections since I can't seem to figure out where to insert it into the main text (came out in 2000 before ATYCLB). Thoughts? Wikipedia brown 01:00, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Hasn't one of U2's new singles 'Window in the Skies' to be released on their new Greatest Hits album just been leaked onto the internet? See xfm.co.uk for details.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Pechark ( talk • contribs)
With careful research, one finds that U2 wanted to release Passengers as a U2 album. Bono has stated that he had a marketing idea to make it work. The record label said no, but accepted releasing it under a different name. Don't put this in the article without sourcing.-- 4.246.203.17 02:25, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
What's up with 30-odd references being removed? I as well as others worked hard to find many of those and put them in. What's the rationale? Wikipedia brown 18:53, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Why I removed? Well, there are a lot bunch of references that just are plain, useless. The article has a huge list of references, about things, that... do they really need to be refered really? Because, thinking about one statement of Bono or another, I cannot be convinced that the article needs so much references.
I realise I needed to ask beforehand. For this I apologize. However, I think that from this huge portion of references, not more than 1/3 of the references are needed. Thus I think the article will be better. With so much references, I don't think the article stands for it "Good Article" candidature.
Please tell me what good removing sources and references could possibly do. If anything, you WANT a comprehensive bibliography that backs up content in the article. Y2kcrazyjoker4 18:02, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
All I wanted to say is that there is an overload of references and that a portion of them is unnecessary. If you think that flaming me or calling me names will do any good to the article - that's your opinion and feel free to act in a corresponding manner. I expressed my opinion as best and as reasonably as possible. The decision is a collaborative matter.
Maybe someone should consider removing the bit at the end of the next album section, with the band and crowd bit, it doesn't show when I go to edit it but its certainly there when your viewing the page.-- 137.186.148.131 04:41, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
I think that we should split up the Next Studio Album Recordings section into a section that covers "The Saints Are Coming"'s performance and recordings together with the released of U218 Singles from the rest of that section, because now that "Saints" and "Window" have already been recorded and U218 released, why should they still be under the next album? Any one think differently?
Darkedge 03:06, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
The Books about U2 must be done. Now We Have a Biography on Book written by them, but none in the entire page. Santiago2u 13:17, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
I removed the trivia (listed below). There are many reasons - fundamentally though, trivia comes from the word trivial which means unimportant. Most of these facts are - the ones that are important are already in the article!!! Remember, this is an encyclopedia. That Bono's favourite colour is (apprently) amber is of no consequence for an encyclopedia article on U2, no relelvance at all. You might want to put it into a pop magazine though.
-- Merbabu 22:54, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
I tagged the promotional photo from the infobox, Image:U2photo.jpg, as failing the fair use criteria. If you disagree, I encourage you to bring it up on the image's talk page. — ShadowHalo 17:38, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
I'd like to start a section called "Themes and Style" perhaps before "Other projects and influences". This one will be a bit harder to write (don't want to include Original Research), but there is a need for it as suggested in the peer review. Here are some general notes:
Themes:
Style:
Wikipedia brown 10:03, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps, initially this section should go towards the end, but if it gets to be good, it could go right at the front before history. I will give it some thought - i hope other can too. -- Merbabu 15:55, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
This article definitely needs a "Musical style and influences" section. Conceivably this could be worked into the history in order to showcase their musical phases, but nevertheless there should be more on the band's roots in the post-punk movement (which pretty much explains why The Edge's guitar-playing sounds the way it does), the use of political and spiritual imagery, unique tics like The Edge's guitarwork and Bono's falsetto, the influence of Lillywhite and Eno on their sound, and the referencing of American (the 80s) and European music (the 90s) in distinct periods of their work. There's lots of places stuff like this can be referenced from. Pull out an issue of Guitar World or and interview in Rolling Stone. WesleyDodds 18:22, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
I got to say, the current intro is really poor. The first (!) paragraph lists minor instrumental assignments — it's utterly irrelevant in an overview that Bono sometimes plays harmonica or guitar, or that Larry sings once in a blue moon. The second and third paragraphs are okay by themselves, but give no sense for what U2 are or what their musical importance is. How about something about the group's initial signature sound, built around Edge's guitar? How about something about how they then radically changed this sound at least twice, first to the Eno-influenced soundscapes, then to the 1990s industrial/whatever influenced sound? How about something about U2's landmark concert tours, which are at least as important as their record sales figures? The goal of an intro is that if someone just reads it, and nothing else in the article, then they get an accurate (if abbreviated) idea of the nature and importance of the subject. This intro fails that test badly. Wasted Time R 21:51, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
It's blurry, irrelevant, and doesn't do the band justice. Revert, SVP. William 00:35, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
I agree. Which user felt the original image was incorrect just because it wasn't 'free'? It was a promotional photo meant to be used as far and wide as possible. After all, who minds getting publicity? If it had been replaced with something like [7] it would have been OK. Larry is playing keyboards! That is NOT his regular instrument. I vote for putting back the original pic.
Who changed the Main Photograph? Definitely moderators of this U2 entrie are not members neither U2.com or @atu2. Dissapointing. -- SantiagoU2
Hopefully some fans out there would have a free image to hand over that at least shows the four members playing their actual instruments. If anyone has taken photos at a concert that is better than this please submit it as opposed to this one. Phillies26 01:36, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Finally. I feel vindicated; someone used to refer to it as 'childish'. Kguirnela 02:50, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
I'd like to remove the following from the Popmart section. It's discussed in the Popmart article, and I feel that it's too much detail for this article:
"Although the extravagance of the tour was visually and technically impressive, in the early stages, Popmart was occasionally marred with less-than-par performances. The problem stemmed from the band booking their tour before the album was finished. Originally set to be released in November 1996, Pop was not in stores until March 1997. As a result, the band had to spend time recording that had originally been allocated for tour rehearsals."
Any objections? Wikipedia brown 03:39, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 8 |
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
There has been some changes re Rattle and Hum's status as either a studio or live album and some talk behind the scenes. The (difficult?) reality is it is BOTH a studio and live album, not one or the other. Personally, i think it should also be categorised as both including listing it both a studio list and a live list. For me that is a practical solution to the "issue". But i know some "purists" will say it needs to go in one or the other. I refer to its listing both on this article and also on U2 discography.
Some background: R&H was released late 1988 approx 18months after the Joshua Tree’s release in Mar 1987. In that time the band went on the Joshua Tree Tour. ON the tour they wrote and recorded some new songs and in early 1988 lived in the states writing further material and recording material for the R&H album and film. The album and film were intended to simultaneously document parts of the Joshua Tree and U2's professed fascination and learning of American music (ie, Blues, Jazz, gospel, etc). It has 17 songs:
It has been suggested here in the past that because the live tracks are supposedly "only" outtakes from the Joshua Tree, then it is not a studio album. I say, even if they are only outtakes, but had never been released previously, then it is still a studio album.
But, the 9 studio tracks are released here for the first time and all recorded AFTER the Joshua Tree was released - in fact 6 out of the 9 I believe were written POST-Joshua Tree. Thus, the definition of outtakes is a stretch.
This is similar to Zooropa and Pop. Sure, they were all “completed” and recorded for the albums, but much (most?) of Zooropa were left overs from Achtung Baby, and the same thing for Pop which was largely Zoropa and Achtung outtakes too. Of course, they were incomplete, but heavily worked up for album inclusion.
The 9 studio songs...
Someone should add this info. -- rgawenda 02:00, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
With all the fact tags, how can this article be called good? Jimcripps 05:17, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
I think there should be one or two sentences about Ground Beneath Her Feet and songs off the soundtrack (Stateless mainly). I'm going to add something under the collaborations sections since I can't seem to figure out where to insert it into the main text (came out in 2000 before ATYCLB). Thoughts? Wikipedia brown 01:00, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Hasn't one of U2's new singles 'Window in the Skies' to be released on their new Greatest Hits album just been leaked onto the internet? See xfm.co.uk for details.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Pechark ( talk • contribs)
With careful research, one finds that U2 wanted to release Passengers as a U2 album. Bono has stated that he had a marketing idea to make it work. The record label said no, but accepted releasing it under a different name. Don't put this in the article without sourcing.-- 4.246.203.17 02:25, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
What's up with 30-odd references being removed? I as well as others worked hard to find many of those and put them in. What's the rationale? Wikipedia brown 18:53, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Why I removed? Well, there are a lot bunch of references that just are plain, useless. The article has a huge list of references, about things, that... do they really need to be refered really? Because, thinking about one statement of Bono or another, I cannot be convinced that the article needs so much references.
I realise I needed to ask beforehand. For this I apologize. However, I think that from this huge portion of references, not more than 1/3 of the references are needed. Thus I think the article will be better. With so much references, I don't think the article stands for it "Good Article" candidature.
Please tell me what good removing sources and references could possibly do. If anything, you WANT a comprehensive bibliography that backs up content in the article. Y2kcrazyjoker4 18:02, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
All I wanted to say is that there is an overload of references and that a portion of them is unnecessary. If you think that flaming me or calling me names will do any good to the article - that's your opinion and feel free to act in a corresponding manner. I expressed my opinion as best and as reasonably as possible. The decision is a collaborative matter.
Maybe someone should consider removing the bit at the end of the next album section, with the band and crowd bit, it doesn't show when I go to edit it but its certainly there when your viewing the page.-- 137.186.148.131 04:41, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
I think that we should split up the Next Studio Album Recordings section into a section that covers "The Saints Are Coming"'s performance and recordings together with the released of U218 Singles from the rest of that section, because now that "Saints" and "Window" have already been recorded and U218 released, why should they still be under the next album? Any one think differently?
Darkedge 03:06, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
The Books about U2 must be done. Now We Have a Biography on Book written by them, but none in the entire page. Santiago2u 13:17, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
I removed the trivia (listed below). There are many reasons - fundamentally though, trivia comes from the word trivial which means unimportant. Most of these facts are - the ones that are important are already in the article!!! Remember, this is an encyclopedia. That Bono's favourite colour is (apprently) amber is of no consequence for an encyclopedia article on U2, no relelvance at all. You might want to put it into a pop magazine though.
-- Merbabu 22:54, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
I tagged the promotional photo from the infobox, Image:U2photo.jpg, as failing the fair use criteria. If you disagree, I encourage you to bring it up on the image's talk page. — ShadowHalo 17:38, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
I'd like to start a section called "Themes and Style" perhaps before "Other projects and influences". This one will be a bit harder to write (don't want to include Original Research), but there is a need for it as suggested in the peer review. Here are some general notes:
Themes:
Style:
Wikipedia brown 10:03, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps, initially this section should go towards the end, but if it gets to be good, it could go right at the front before history. I will give it some thought - i hope other can too. -- Merbabu 15:55, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
This article definitely needs a "Musical style and influences" section. Conceivably this could be worked into the history in order to showcase their musical phases, but nevertheless there should be more on the band's roots in the post-punk movement (which pretty much explains why The Edge's guitar-playing sounds the way it does), the use of political and spiritual imagery, unique tics like The Edge's guitarwork and Bono's falsetto, the influence of Lillywhite and Eno on their sound, and the referencing of American (the 80s) and European music (the 90s) in distinct periods of their work. There's lots of places stuff like this can be referenced from. Pull out an issue of Guitar World or and interview in Rolling Stone. WesleyDodds 18:22, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
I got to say, the current intro is really poor. The first (!) paragraph lists minor instrumental assignments — it's utterly irrelevant in an overview that Bono sometimes plays harmonica or guitar, or that Larry sings once in a blue moon. The second and third paragraphs are okay by themselves, but give no sense for what U2 are or what their musical importance is. How about something about the group's initial signature sound, built around Edge's guitar? How about something about how they then radically changed this sound at least twice, first to the Eno-influenced soundscapes, then to the 1990s industrial/whatever influenced sound? How about something about U2's landmark concert tours, which are at least as important as their record sales figures? The goal of an intro is that if someone just reads it, and nothing else in the article, then they get an accurate (if abbreviated) idea of the nature and importance of the subject. This intro fails that test badly. Wasted Time R 21:51, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
It's blurry, irrelevant, and doesn't do the band justice. Revert, SVP. William 00:35, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
I agree. Which user felt the original image was incorrect just because it wasn't 'free'? It was a promotional photo meant to be used as far and wide as possible. After all, who minds getting publicity? If it had been replaced with something like [7] it would have been OK. Larry is playing keyboards! That is NOT his regular instrument. I vote for putting back the original pic.
Who changed the Main Photograph? Definitely moderators of this U2 entrie are not members neither U2.com or @atu2. Dissapointing. -- SantiagoU2
Hopefully some fans out there would have a free image to hand over that at least shows the four members playing their actual instruments. If anyone has taken photos at a concert that is better than this please submit it as opposed to this one. Phillies26 01:36, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Finally. I feel vindicated; someone used to refer to it as 'childish'. Kguirnela 02:50, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
I'd like to remove the following from the Popmart section. It's discussed in the Popmart article, and I feel that it's too much detail for this article:
"Although the extravagance of the tour was visually and technically impressive, in the early stages, Popmart was occasionally marred with less-than-par performances. The problem stemmed from the band booking their tour before the album was finished. Originally set to be released in November 1996, Pop was not in stores until March 1997. As a result, the band had to spend time recording that had originally been allocated for tour rehearsals."
Any objections? Wikipedia brown 03:39, 30 December 2006 (UTC)