This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
If I remember right, she was assassinated by her Sikh guards after she took actions that damaged a Sikh temple. Memorable quote: "My father was a saint, I ain't." 24.121.199.3 ( talk) 00:57, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
Indira Gandhi was a tyrant who tried to usurp democracy in the 70's, and orchestrated the killing of several thousand Sikh civilians in and around Amritsar in 1984. The Golden Temple attack was far more than mere 'damage', it was a massacre on par with some of Assad's war crimes today. Operation Bluestar took place at the same time as Operation Woodrose, a genocidal act of violence which resulted in the arrest, torture and execution of thousands more young Sikh men. Army units were ordered to surround Sikh villages and line the populace up in the streets. All baptised Sikh men were taken away in trucks and 'disappeared'.
The official Indian line is that Operation Bluestar was launched to 'remove terrorists from the temple complex'. Why, then, were 38 other Sikh temples simultaneously attacked? Why were all foreign journalists deported from Punjab province? Why were the contents of the Sikh Reference Libary dumped into sacks and confiscated (to this day they are held by the government, or destroyed)? Why were troops issued with a batch sheet ordering them to arrest (aka secretly execute) all Sikh men as they were 'basically committed to terrorism'? Why do leading western human rights organisations (inc. Amnesty Interational and HRW) all dispute the Indian army claim that there were only a few hundred 'enemy combatants' killed at the Golden Temple, and instead support independent estimates of at least 1000?
To this day, the assassination of Indira Gandhi is the only justice that Sikhs have recieved for these massacres. There have been no prosecutions in court, and the international community has been kept largely ignorant of the events of 1984.
The killing of Indira Gandhi is of monumental historical importance to the Sikh Nation today, and should at least be given a mention in this article. Unless of course, Wikipedia has to kow-tow to the Indian Government hero-worship of Mrs. Gandhi in the name of 'NPOV'. The killing of Gaddaffi is rightly given a mention, Indira Gandhi's death should too. The Gandhi assassination is one of the defining examples both of bodyguard assassination and of suicidal tactics.
2.27.217.184 (
talk) 11:31, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
"Tyrannicide" is not a useful term if it just means the killing of a classical tyrant. The real significant meaning I think is an assassination that is justified by claiming the person killed was a "tyrant" in the modern sense of the word. I voted to delete the "modern tyrants" section on list of tyrants because such an 'authoritative' list is inherently POV; nevertheless, to illustrate this article I think it is not only helpful but necessary to include some examples of claimed "tyrannicides". For example, Johm Wilkes Booth justified his killing of Abraham Lincoln by claiming the latter was a tyrant; he is even said to have shouted " Sic semper tyrannis!" upon firing the shots. Saying that Booth considered his act "tyrannicide" is just factual, and in no way indicts Lincoln as a "tyrant".-- Pharos 23:44, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
So there. Also, please do read your shakespear. Macbeth was not "murdered". He murdered King Duncan and was then killed in battle. So thats not tyrannicide according to the definition. Tourskin 06:12, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Actually Macbeth of Scotland was the victim of regicide (according to that article and the following article). He was killed "by treachery" by the man who became Malcolm III of Scotland. James500 ( talk) 01:12, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Per the definition, the execution of Saddam Hussein doesn not qualify--rather than an assassination, it was an execution as a result of trial and sentencing (regardless of where you stand on the legitimacy of his removal from power). Tlesher 23:36, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
- I came here to say that. Hussein and Kadhafi have been killed by foreign invasion. It was an act a war, not a tyrannicide. -- 86.162.36.205 ( talk) 20:16, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
I reverted User:4.242.186.245's edits diff due to verbatim copyright violation taken from this site. Cheers. -- slakr 23:55, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
I actually think that there is a place in this article for a section on tyrannicide in fiction. As a literary device, it is extremely popular, though I'm a bit miffed by the video game trivia there now. A lot of our common folklore, and it seems every Disney animation deals with the subject. Lord of the Rings or Chronicles of Narnia are probably more classic encyclopedic examples than Yu-Gi-Oh. So I'm removing the current trivia. Most of it, like King Ganondorf, are regicides not tyrannicides anyways.-- Patrick «» 05:29, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
I removed Anwar El Sadat from the "Notable Tyrannicides' list. He was the president of Egypt, not its tyrant, until his assassination in 1981 by Khalid Islambouli. A real tyrant could hardly have been a Nobel Peace Prize laureate , as Sadat was in 1978. He may have been impopular among the more radical portion of Egypt's muslim population, but that does not make him a tyrant. Regards, -- AVM ( talk) 01:46, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
Inedeed some LOS Racist called LIncolns death a "Tyrannicide". —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
97.86.250.2 (
talk) 18:05, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Lincoln was the most famous tyrant in American history, and died a famous death. Why is he missing from the list? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.32.58.125 ( talk) 04:43, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
Unclear issues:
Harmodius and Aristogeiton are called "the original tyrannicides" without any motivation given. Because we can almost certainly rule out that they were the first to murder a tyrant, the claim is either faulty or based on some other criterion, e.g. that they were the first to which this specific term was applied. Depending on which the statement should be removed or clarified.
Naming Gustav III as a tyrant is highly contentious, and I suggest either removing him or putting him in the separate list of contentious cases. (Which could very well include several others named: I just happen to be more well-read in the history of Sweden than other countries.)
Ceausescu was executed after a (military?) trial, and is therefore not the victim of tyrannicide in the stricter meaning. 88.77.191.244 ( talk) 15:07, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
The entire "Tyrannicide in fiction" section is Original Research. We need suitable sources that SAY something about Tyrannicide - not some people reviewing primary sources (works of fiction) and deciding they constitute notable instances of tyrannicide. (Note that even the Shakespeare reference says nothing about "tyrannicide", but only tyranny.) 214.4.238.180 ( talk) 16:08, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Since when lincoln would be a tyrant? Only far right southern advocates would say that. Or something. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.131.208.248 ( talk) 05:57, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
There was an AFD on List of tyrants that closed on 18 June 2005. Result: turned out to be inherently POV keep only Ancient Greek tyrants in the list. |
There is currently a list of ancient Greek tyrants that was created out of an article called "List of tyrants". List of tyrants was deleted because it was see as inherently POV. The current list in this article is the reverse coin of that list. Therefore I am going to delete most of it and only leave two categories:
Those ancient Greek tyrants who were assassinated:
and those where the killers claimed that they motivated assassinate some one because they believed that they were killing a tyrant eg:
'Attribution: Most of the words after the bullet points above are copied from this article, list of ancient Greek tyrants and assassination of Abraham Lincoln
I would suggest that only those men in those categories are listed in this list or else the list will become what it is at the moment inherently POV. -- PBS ( talk) 23:14, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
You have again put Lincoln second in a list instead of placing JC second. But much more important you are synthesising actions.
For example also as since modern use of tyrant and tyrannicide pass a moral judgement rather than a legal judgement if you are going to use the term then you will have to attribute it to the person making the moral judgement et in the case of Nicolae Ceauşescu you need to attribute the words to "Richards Graubard", but is Richards Graubard notable and expert enough to have his opinion about what is or is not a tyrannicide quoted in an encyclopaedia?
This is why I suggest that we keep the list to those assassinations (or as the American Government prefer to describe then "targeted killings") where the perpetrators have justified the killings as the killing of a tyrant.
There are further problems with the list that you have constructed, there is synthesis in it, just because someone was in someone's opinion a tyrant it does not mean that the killers were motivated to kill a tyrant. Now if the term has a legal definition like king then the motive does not matter as it is a regicide, but if not, then the person may be selecting a target not because they are a tyrant but for some other reason. If you say that so and so says x was a tyrant and he was killed therefore it is a tyrannicide you have [[WP:SYN]NED.
There is also a question of sentences such as this:
Throughout history, tyrannicide has been connected to revolution, with many taking place during successful revolutions, and others sparking revolutionary upheavals. In the midst of the French Revolution, Maximilien Robespierre, took power as the President of the National Convention, but after leading the Reign of Terror from 1793 to 1794, he was executed by beheading by the National Convention.
Who says "Throughout history tyrannicide has been connected to revolution" What is the point of the sentence "In the midst ..." there was a regicide but where was the tyrannicide?
-- PBS ( talk) 07:29, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
My problem is that your reinstatement of the list even as text is a breach of POV and is exactly the reason that List of modern tyrants was deleted. -- PBS ( talk) 07:32, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
In the Literature Section there are far too many 'likes' in there. I don't have the time to change it but just to put it out there. Dmcl404 ( talk) 21:28, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
i'm rather surprised by the dearth of reference to specific ancient ideas about tyrannicide. aristotle and plato do not speak, for example, of a moral duty to kill the tyrant, but cicero (see on duties, bk 3, for example) and the romans generally assumed it to be a moral duty without much argument. i think this calls for further discussion because this roman tradition informed medieval thinking about resisting and killing tyrants. -- chris — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.97.132.246 ( talk) 00:43, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
Vladimir Putin is guilty of WAR crimes "Special Military Operation" in 2022. 2603:900B:A0D:57FF:4CEA:2EEE:65C8:7624 ( talk) 08:48, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
If I remember right, she was assassinated by her Sikh guards after she took actions that damaged a Sikh temple. Memorable quote: "My father was a saint, I ain't." 24.121.199.3 ( talk) 00:57, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
Indira Gandhi was a tyrant who tried to usurp democracy in the 70's, and orchestrated the killing of several thousand Sikh civilians in and around Amritsar in 1984. The Golden Temple attack was far more than mere 'damage', it was a massacre on par with some of Assad's war crimes today. Operation Bluestar took place at the same time as Operation Woodrose, a genocidal act of violence which resulted in the arrest, torture and execution of thousands more young Sikh men. Army units were ordered to surround Sikh villages and line the populace up in the streets. All baptised Sikh men were taken away in trucks and 'disappeared'.
The official Indian line is that Operation Bluestar was launched to 'remove terrorists from the temple complex'. Why, then, were 38 other Sikh temples simultaneously attacked? Why were all foreign journalists deported from Punjab province? Why were the contents of the Sikh Reference Libary dumped into sacks and confiscated (to this day they are held by the government, or destroyed)? Why were troops issued with a batch sheet ordering them to arrest (aka secretly execute) all Sikh men as they were 'basically committed to terrorism'? Why do leading western human rights organisations (inc. Amnesty Interational and HRW) all dispute the Indian army claim that there were only a few hundred 'enemy combatants' killed at the Golden Temple, and instead support independent estimates of at least 1000?
To this day, the assassination of Indira Gandhi is the only justice that Sikhs have recieved for these massacres. There have been no prosecutions in court, and the international community has been kept largely ignorant of the events of 1984.
The killing of Indira Gandhi is of monumental historical importance to the Sikh Nation today, and should at least be given a mention in this article. Unless of course, Wikipedia has to kow-tow to the Indian Government hero-worship of Mrs. Gandhi in the name of 'NPOV'. The killing of Gaddaffi is rightly given a mention, Indira Gandhi's death should too. The Gandhi assassination is one of the defining examples both of bodyguard assassination and of suicidal tactics.
2.27.217.184 (
talk) 11:31, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
"Tyrannicide" is not a useful term if it just means the killing of a classical tyrant. The real significant meaning I think is an assassination that is justified by claiming the person killed was a "tyrant" in the modern sense of the word. I voted to delete the "modern tyrants" section on list of tyrants because such an 'authoritative' list is inherently POV; nevertheless, to illustrate this article I think it is not only helpful but necessary to include some examples of claimed "tyrannicides". For example, Johm Wilkes Booth justified his killing of Abraham Lincoln by claiming the latter was a tyrant; he is even said to have shouted " Sic semper tyrannis!" upon firing the shots. Saying that Booth considered his act "tyrannicide" is just factual, and in no way indicts Lincoln as a "tyrant".-- Pharos 23:44, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
So there. Also, please do read your shakespear. Macbeth was not "murdered". He murdered King Duncan and was then killed in battle. So thats not tyrannicide according to the definition. Tourskin 06:12, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Actually Macbeth of Scotland was the victim of regicide (according to that article and the following article). He was killed "by treachery" by the man who became Malcolm III of Scotland. James500 ( talk) 01:12, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Per the definition, the execution of Saddam Hussein doesn not qualify--rather than an assassination, it was an execution as a result of trial and sentencing (regardless of where you stand on the legitimacy of his removal from power). Tlesher 23:36, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
- I came here to say that. Hussein and Kadhafi have been killed by foreign invasion. It was an act a war, not a tyrannicide. -- 86.162.36.205 ( talk) 20:16, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
I reverted User:4.242.186.245's edits diff due to verbatim copyright violation taken from this site. Cheers. -- slakr 23:55, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
I actually think that there is a place in this article for a section on tyrannicide in fiction. As a literary device, it is extremely popular, though I'm a bit miffed by the video game trivia there now. A lot of our common folklore, and it seems every Disney animation deals with the subject. Lord of the Rings or Chronicles of Narnia are probably more classic encyclopedic examples than Yu-Gi-Oh. So I'm removing the current trivia. Most of it, like King Ganondorf, are regicides not tyrannicides anyways.-- Patrick «» 05:29, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
I removed Anwar El Sadat from the "Notable Tyrannicides' list. He was the president of Egypt, not its tyrant, until his assassination in 1981 by Khalid Islambouli. A real tyrant could hardly have been a Nobel Peace Prize laureate , as Sadat was in 1978. He may have been impopular among the more radical portion of Egypt's muslim population, but that does not make him a tyrant. Regards, -- AVM ( talk) 01:46, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
Inedeed some LOS Racist called LIncolns death a "Tyrannicide". —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
97.86.250.2 (
talk) 18:05, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Lincoln was the most famous tyrant in American history, and died a famous death. Why is he missing from the list? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.32.58.125 ( talk) 04:43, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
Unclear issues:
Harmodius and Aristogeiton are called "the original tyrannicides" without any motivation given. Because we can almost certainly rule out that they were the first to murder a tyrant, the claim is either faulty or based on some other criterion, e.g. that they were the first to which this specific term was applied. Depending on which the statement should be removed or clarified.
Naming Gustav III as a tyrant is highly contentious, and I suggest either removing him or putting him in the separate list of contentious cases. (Which could very well include several others named: I just happen to be more well-read in the history of Sweden than other countries.)
Ceausescu was executed after a (military?) trial, and is therefore not the victim of tyrannicide in the stricter meaning. 88.77.191.244 ( talk) 15:07, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
The entire "Tyrannicide in fiction" section is Original Research. We need suitable sources that SAY something about Tyrannicide - not some people reviewing primary sources (works of fiction) and deciding they constitute notable instances of tyrannicide. (Note that even the Shakespeare reference says nothing about "tyrannicide", but only tyranny.) 214.4.238.180 ( talk) 16:08, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Since when lincoln would be a tyrant? Only far right southern advocates would say that. Or something. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.131.208.248 ( talk) 05:57, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
There was an AFD on List of tyrants that closed on 18 June 2005. Result: turned out to be inherently POV keep only Ancient Greek tyrants in the list. |
There is currently a list of ancient Greek tyrants that was created out of an article called "List of tyrants". List of tyrants was deleted because it was see as inherently POV. The current list in this article is the reverse coin of that list. Therefore I am going to delete most of it and only leave two categories:
Those ancient Greek tyrants who were assassinated:
and those where the killers claimed that they motivated assassinate some one because they believed that they were killing a tyrant eg:
'Attribution: Most of the words after the bullet points above are copied from this article, list of ancient Greek tyrants and assassination of Abraham Lincoln
I would suggest that only those men in those categories are listed in this list or else the list will become what it is at the moment inherently POV. -- PBS ( talk) 23:14, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
You have again put Lincoln second in a list instead of placing JC second. But much more important you are synthesising actions.
For example also as since modern use of tyrant and tyrannicide pass a moral judgement rather than a legal judgement if you are going to use the term then you will have to attribute it to the person making the moral judgement et in the case of Nicolae Ceauşescu you need to attribute the words to "Richards Graubard", but is Richards Graubard notable and expert enough to have his opinion about what is or is not a tyrannicide quoted in an encyclopaedia?
This is why I suggest that we keep the list to those assassinations (or as the American Government prefer to describe then "targeted killings") where the perpetrators have justified the killings as the killing of a tyrant.
There are further problems with the list that you have constructed, there is synthesis in it, just because someone was in someone's opinion a tyrant it does not mean that the killers were motivated to kill a tyrant. Now if the term has a legal definition like king then the motive does not matter as it is a regicide, but if not, then the person may be selecting a target not because they are a tyrant but for some other reason. If you say that so and so says x was a tyrant and he was killed therefore it is a tyrannicide you have [[WP:SYN]NED.
There is also a question of sentences such as this:
Throughout history, tyrannicide has been connected to revolution, with many taking place during successful revolutions, and others sparking revolutionary upheavals. In the midst of the French Revolution, Maximilien Robespierre, took power as the President of the National Convention, but after leading the Reign of Terror from 1793 to 1794, he was executed by beheading by the National Convention.
Who says "Throughout history tyrannicide has been connected to revolution" What is the point of the sentence "In the midst ..." there was a regicide but where was the tyrannicide?
-- PBS ( talk) 07:29, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
My problem is that your reinstatement of the list even as text is a breach of POV and is exactly the reason that List of modern tyrants was deleted. -- PBS ( talk) 07:32, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
In the Literature Section there are far too many 'likes' in there. I don't have the time to change it but just to put it out there. Dmcl404 ( talk) 21:28, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
i'm rather surprised by the dearth of reference to specific ancient ideas about tyrannicide. aristotle and plato do not speak, for example, of a moral duty to kill the tyrant, but cicero (see on duties, bk 3, for example) and the romans generally assumed it to be a moral duty without much argument. i think this calls for further discussion because this roman tradition informed medieval thinking about resisting and killing tyrants. -- chris — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.97.132.246 ( talk) 00:43, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
Vladimir Putin is guilty of WAR crimes "Special Military Operation" in 2022. 2603:900B:A0D:57FF:4CEA:2EEE:65C8:7624 ( talk) 08:48, 5 March 2022 (UTC)