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Might I suggest "twee" means tree, as in the term "tree hugger"?
Is this phrase ever used in the UK ? I can't find any references to it. (and boy have i looked) indiepop, c86, even cutie have been used to describe this genre but tweepop if it is used then it must be very sporadic??? The article talks about simon reynolds MM articles but he doesn't use it or even refer to it. He refers to c86, cutie and indie pop(in the last chapter of) in his book; rip it up. (in 2004) When RTShops (in the UK) did a compilation broadly covering off the history of this genre they called it Indie Pop. When Sanctuary/Bob Stanley (in the UK) did a compilation covering off these bands in the mid 80s they called it CD86 (a play on C86). If you search for this type of music (UK bands) on eBay then they tend to be labelled c86. Same goes for Last FM tags which has er, tags (god forbid) neo-C86.
I've heard bands be called twee but "tweepop". in the UK ? I'm struggling. Can someone find some, any sources for the use of this phrase/term in the UK. Jem 17:06, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Even the main source for the article descirbes itself as "A massive, three-page article about indie pop: Why now?" - it talks about the fans of the genre using the phrase Twee! but it doesn't mention the words "tweepop". [1] Jem 17:14, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Jem 09:06, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I disagree with the idea of merging these terms. Twee can be heard to be referenced in a variety of music from the U.K. E.G. The Fratellis "Everybody knows you cried last night" ("look so dumb and you sound so twee") and Tullycraft "Twee"
Agree with merging. Although Iridescent's reasoning may be correct (I haven't done enough research to be certain), the term "Twee" is too often used in a nebulous way and synonymously with Indie pop or C86. I think of it as a synonym for Indie Pop, and I think Jem is right that they may be used in slightly different ways regionally, they aren't two separate genres. Davemcarlson 01:51, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
Its not that I'm denying that bands such as Talulah Gosh, The Softies, Tullycraft, The Pastels and so on and so on aren't called "twee" or "twee pop" but as dave says above its synonymous with indie pop or c86. there's hardly anything in the current article that isn't repeated in the indie pop article. - the genre is in thrall to the soft pop of the sixties - first evidence is yr orange juice/postcard - post punk poppy stuff from early 80s in uk - seminal moment is c86 (even though tape had a broader range of sounds) - big uk label in late 80s is sarah - velvet crush in the states then K records... - diy aesthetic, bowl hair cuts, anoraks, in thrall to child like aesthetic etc, asexual - a few revivals and so on and son on. the twee article says this and the indie pop article repeats it. notable sources (simon reynolds, bob stanley, UK music press all cited in the c86/indiepop articles) make no distinction. the indie pop article should refer to twee and perhaps anecdotes like twee fucker and even references to cuddlecore..in fact they do at some length ...so is there enough of a difference to warrant a lengthy article? Jem 12:49, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
I still have my copy of C81, the C86 predessor cassette the NME gave away in 1981!! quercus robur
Suggestion: for the rest of the world who do not speak the British dialect of English, could someone add a definition of what "twee" means? I think it means "sweetly cute to the point of being disgusting", but since (1) I speak the other major dialect of English, & (2) I only know of the meaning of "twee" from people who are very hostile to the concept of "twee", someone who can provide a NPOV definition of twee should add it here. Thanks. -- llywrch 20:41 Mar 9, 2003 (UTC)
What are jangling lyrics? I've reworded the first sentence; hopefully this is what the author intended. Quincy 22:13, 30 Dec 2003 (UTC)
This article has been moved from Twee pop to Twee on the grounds "that there is no other twee". Yes there is, the word 'Twee' itself which can be applied to many things other than pop. For example, the village of Bourton on the Water is described by many as "twee", as is anything knowingly or overly cute. Of course WP isn't a dictionary, but I think the artcile move was a bit premature. Graham 04:53, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)
I'm not convinced by your definition of 'twee'. You make it sound like it means cute which I think is not the case. Dictionary.com gives us "affectedly dainty or refined" and "Overly precious or nice." That emphasis - 'dainty' 'precious' 'refined' is more to the normal meaning of 'twee' than 'cute'. An example Americans can relate to - almost everything sold by Martha Stewart is twee. Picture postcard quaintness rather than Hello Kitty. Harry R 18:37, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'd always heard that C86 was the beginning of indiepop, which evolved into twee when Sarah came along. Pre-sarah music didn't contain so much of a childlike element as that which came after.-- Tinyfolk 04:22, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Is this categorization of bands as "twee" -ish objective? ...Or are there bands that are only kind of "twee"? ...And is there thought to a list, perhaps on this page, of bands that have been removed from this list? ...just curious. David Gale 03:25, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Question, isn't twee under the umbrella of indie pop? I know a lot of acts with K records is considered indie pop but not twee. Mirah would be an example of that.
i added 'park ave.' under the band listings.
I've moved all of these here until we WP:CITE sources to WP:V that they are twee. - brenneman (t) (c) 14:33, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Why is there no mention of the Television Personalities on this page? Surely they invented 'Twee pop'? Baba Alex 13:02, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Surely the Pastels should be off the list if that's the case. 1st release was 1982.
See above discussion for difference between twee pop and indiepop.--
Tinyfolk
17:30, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
This list was removed 15 years ago, and it is sorely needed in the article ( or some kind of list). i simply added it back, and added a reference. Others can add or take away any individual bands needed. People have NO idea what the genre sounds like if they can't at least reference some kind of list. The article was strangely devoid of one. so, VOILA, it is done. I leave it to the experts to refine it, Do not remove entire list, but refine the list entries ONE BY ONE. Meat Eating Orchid ( talk) 04:54, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
I don't think a massive list like this is helpful, especially when some of the listed bands aren't even notable enough to have their own articles. It also does not appear to be the norm. Someone who doesn't know anything about this genre will not be helped by this list. It would be much preferable to select a small sample of well-known or influential exemplars of the genre and describe how they typify twee pop, their influence on the genre, and/or the genre's influence on them. 204.246.8.98 ( talk) 20:47, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
I note that twee pop has been at twee for some time, on the ground that there's no other twee — indeed, an article about "twee" would just be a dicdef. But is twee pop actually ever described as simply "twee"? I don't think it is. Surely this article would be better at twee pop, with a redir from twee? fuddlemark ( fuddle me!) 14:43, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Cuddlecore only exists as an American genre and I edited the entry to reflect that as well as adding the two most undisputed examples of cuddlecore I know. Cub, for instance, has the slogan "Cuddlecore '94" printed on the inside liner notes of their second album, "Come Out, Come Out".-- Tinyfolk 17:34, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
Regarding the removal of various punk catagories, I think that it is the case that twee legitimately traces it's origin to punk, as a part of indiepop. As such, I'd like to retain at least the punk genres catagory. For that matter, I notice it's not on the indiepop article either. I'd definitely like to add it there, even if it stays off of twee, as it as a much more direct relationship to punk. Anyone object? Arturus 09:37, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
All alternative rock genres have roots in punk rock. So it's redundant. WesleyDodds 03:15, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
Seriously, I never heard this term used until the early—or maybe even mid—1990s. And it was always a laughable term. Indie pop is more appropriate. And some of the key bands somehow connected to this label have existed for years before the term ever existed in a zine editor's lexicon. I say this should be merged with indie pop, but referenced in the article... Maybe even a redirect to make things easier. — SpyMagician 06:30, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
why anorak rock? i thought anorak meant nerd in england?
There still isn't anything in this article that isn't in the indie pop article. Can someone add in references and history that might actually add to this as a genre otherwise i'm gonna merge with indie pop. That article now refers to twee pop, twee, cuddlecore, has a section devoted to the USA and so on.
Jem 07:42, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
You know my opinion on ultimately keeping it separate, but following the bizarre edits of the last year or so this article in its present state is worthless. I'd say, go ahead and merge it; at some point, I'll do a top-to-bottom rewrite of the twee-pop article and re-establish it as a separate article but at the moment it would do better as a subsection of indie. Blank-and-redirect rather than delete this one, though, both for GFDL reasons (when I revive this article in its own right, I'll keep those parts that are worthwhile), and to preserve this discussion. — iridescent (talk to me!) 21:59, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
Blanked and redirected. Jem 11:10, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Ok. I redirected this a few years back and now its re-emerged. Happy for separate articles but there doesn't seem to be references/history that define twee pop, as a separate genre. If anything it says less about tweepop than the indiepop article. I'll give it a while but i'll merge it back if the article doesn't get rewritten. ```` —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jemstone66 ( talk • contribs) 07:06, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
This article does not serve as a general overview of twee pop; rather, it focuses on a specific subgenre. It does not accurately portray the post-punk nature of twee pop, which is not the same thing as simple "feminine punk." I'm debating whether or not to rewrite the majority of this article. 82.27.209.76 ( talk) 20:38, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
The lede says that twee pop is "an offshoot of the Twee movement," without any further explanation (couldn't find anything in the source either). Is this referring to broader twee subculture, a la peter pan collars and colored tights? If so, seems like that warrants its own article.
I'd prob argue that twee subculture grew out of twee pop (twee subculture is associated with the 2010s from what I know), not the other way around, but seems notable enough on its own anyway. Plenty of notable coverage. Thoughts? Remainsuncertain ( talk) 03:58, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Might I suggest "twee" means tree, as in the term "tree hugger"?
Is this phrase ever used in the UK ? I can't find any references to it. (and boy have i looked) indiepop, c86, even cutie have been used to describe this genre but tweepop if it is used then it must be very sporadic??? The article talks about simon reynolds MM articles but he doesn't use it or even refer to it. He refers to c86, cutie and indie pop(in the last chapter of) in his book; rip it up. (in 2004) When RTShops (in the UK) did a compilation broadly covering off the history of this genre they called it Indie Pop. When Sanctuary/Bob Stanley (in the UK) did a compilation covering off these bands in the mid 80s they called it CD86 (a play on C86). If you search for this type of music (UK bands) on eBay then they tend to be labelled c86. Same goes for Last FM tags which has er, tags (god forbid) neo-C86.
I've heard bands be called twee but "tweepop". in the UK ? I'm struggling. Can someone find some, any sources for the use of this phrase/term in the UK. Jem 17:06, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Even the main source for the article descirbes itself as "A massive, three-page article about indie pop: Why now?" - it talks about the fans of the genre using the phrase Twee! but it doesn't mention the words "tweepop". [1] Jem 17:14, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Jem 09:06, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I disagree with the idea of merging these terms. Twee can be heard to be referenced in a variety of music from the U.K. E.G. The Fratellis "Everybody knows you cried last night" ("look so dumb and you sound so twee") and Tullycraft "Twee"
Agree with merging. Although Iridescent's reasoning may be correct (I haven't done enough research to be certain), the term "Twee" is too often used in a nebulous way and synonymously with Indie pop or C86. I think of it as a synonym for Indie Pop, and I think Jem is right that they may be used in slightly different ways regionally, they aren't two separate genres. Davemcarlson 01:51, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
Its not that I'm denying that bands such as Talulah Gosh, The Softies, Tullycraft, The Pastels and so on and so on aren't called "twee" or "twee pop" but as dave says above its synonymous with indie pop or c86. there's hardly anything in the current article that isn't repeated in the indie pop article. - the genre is in thrall to the soft pop of the sixties - first evidence is yr orange juice/postcard - post punk poppy stuff from early 80s in uk - seminal moment is c86 (even though tape had a broader range of sounds) - big uk label in late 80s is sarah - velvet crush in the states then K records... - diy aesthetic, bowl hair cuts, anoraks, in thrall to child like aesthetic etc, asexual - a few revivals and so on and son on. the twee article says this and the indie pop article repeats it. notable sources (simon reynolds, bob stanley, UK music press all cited in the c86/indiepop articles) make no distinction. the indie pop article should refer to twee and perhaps anecdotes like twee fucker and even references to cuddlecore..in fact they do at some length ...so is there enough of a difference to warrant a lengthy article? Jem 12:49, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
I still have my copy of C81, the C86 predessor cassette the NME gave away in 1981!! quercus robur
Suggestion: for the rest of the world who do not speak the British dialect of English, could someone add a definition of what "twee" means? I think it means "sweetly cute to the point of being disgusting", but since (1) I speak the other major dialect of English, & (2) I only know of the meaning of "twee" from people who are very hostile to the concept of "twee", someone who can provide a NPOV definition of twee should add it here. Thanks. -- llywrch 20:41 Mar 9, 2003 (UTC)
What are jangling lyrics? I've reworded the first sentence; hopefully this is what the author intended. Quincy 22:13, 30 Dec 2003 (UTC)
This article has been moved from Twee pop to Twee on the grounds "that there is no other twee". Yes there is, the word 'Twee' itself which can be applied to many things other than pop. For example, the village of Bourton on the Water is described by many as "twee", as is anything knowingly or overly cute. Of course WP isn't a dictionary, but I think the artcile move was a bit premature. Graham 04:53, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)
I'm not convinced by your definition of 'twee'. You make it sound like it means cute which I think is not the case. Dictionary.com gives us "affectedly dainty or refined" and "Overly precious or nice." That emphasis - 'dainty' 'precious' 'refined' is more to the normal meaning of 'twee' than 'cute'. An example Americans can relate to - almost everything sold by Martha Stewart is twee. Picture postcard quaintness rather than Hello Kitty. Harry R 18:37, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'd always heard that C86 was the beginning of indiepop, which evolved into twee when Sarah came along. Pre-sarah music didn't contain so much of a childlike element as that which came after.-- Tinyfolk 04:22, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Is this categorization of bands as "twee" -ish objective? ...Or are there bands that are only kind of "twee"? ...And is there thought to a list, perhaps on this page, of bands that have been removed from this list? ...just curious. David Gale 03:25, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Question, isn't twee under the umbrella of indie pop? I know a lot of acts with K records is considered indie pop but not twee. Mirah would be an example of that.
i added 'park ave.' under the band listings.
I've moved all of these here until we WP:CITE sources to WP:V that they are twee. - brenneman (t) (c) 14:33, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Why is there no mention of the Television Personalities on this page? Surely they invented 'Twee pop'? Baba Alex 13:02, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Surely the Pastels should be off the list if that's the case. 1st release was 1982.
See above discussion for difference between twee pop and indiepop.--
Tinyfolk
17:30, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
This list was removed 15 years ago, and it is sorely needed in the article ( or some kind of list). i simply added it back, and added a reference. Others can add or take away any individual bands needed. People have NO idea what the genre sounds like if they can't at least reference some kind of list. The article was strangely devoid of one. so, VOILA, it is done. I leave it to the experts to refine it, Do not remove entire list, but refine the list entries ONE BY ONE. Meat Eating Orchid ( talk) 04:54, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
I don't think a massive list like this is helpful, especially when some of the listed bands aren't even notable enough to have their own articles. It also does not appear to be the norm. Someone who doesn't know anything about this genre will not be helped by this list. It would be much preferable to select a small sample of well-known or influential exemplars of the genre and describe how they typify twee pop, their influence on the genre, and/or the genre's influence on them. 204.246.8.98 ( talk) 20:47, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
I note that twee pop has been at twee for some time, on the ground that there's no other twee — indeed, an article about "twee" would just be a dicdef. But is twee pop actually ever described as simply "twee"? I don't think it is. Surely this article would be better at twee pop, with a redir from twee? fuddlemark ( fuddle me!) 14:43, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Cuddlecore only exists as an American genre and I edited the entry to reflect that as well as adding the two most undisputed examples of cuddlecore I know. Cub, for instance, has the slogan "Cuddlecore '94" printed on the inside liner notes of their second album, "Come Out, Come Out".-- Tinyfolk 17:34, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
Regarding the removal of various punk catagories, I think that it is the case that twee legitimately traces it's origin to punk, as a part of indiepop. As such, I'd like to retain at least the punk genres catagory. For that matter, I notice it's not on the indiepop article either. I'd definitely like to add it there, even if it stays off of twee, as it as a much more direct relationship to punk. Anyone object? Arturus 09:37, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
All alternative rock genres have roots in punk rock. So it's redundant. WesleyDodds 03:15, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
Seriously, I never heard this term used until the early—or maybe even mid—1990s. And it was always a laughable term. Indie pop is more appropriate. And some of the key bands somehow connected to this label have existed for years before the term ever existed in a zine editor's lexicon. I say this should be merged with indie pop, but referenced in the article... Maybe even a redirect to make things easier. — SpyMagician 06:30, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
why anorak rock? i thought anorak meant nerd in england?
There still isn't anything in this article that isn't in the indie pop article. Can someone add in references and history that might actually add to this as a genre otherwise i'm gonna merge with indie pop. That article now refers to twee pop, twee, cuddlecore, has a section devoted to the USA and so on.
Jem 07:42, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
You know my opinion on ultimately keeping it separate, but following the bizarre edits of the last year or so this article in its present state is worthless. I'd say, go ahead and merge it; at some point, I'll do a top-to-bottom rewrite of the twee-pop article and re-establish it as a separate article but at the moment it would do better as a subsection of indie. Blank-and-redirect rather than delete this one, though, both for GFDL reasons (when I revive this article in its own right, I'll keep those parts that are worthwhile), and to preserve this discussion. — iridescent (talk to me!) 21:59, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
Blanked and redirected. Jem 11:10, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Ok. I redirected this a few years back and now its re-emerged. Happy for separate articles but there doesn't seem to be references/history that define twee pop, as a separate genre. If anything it says less about tweepop than the indiepop article. I'll give it a while but i'll merge it back if the article doesn't get rewritten. ```` —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jemstone66 ( talk • contribs) 07:06, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
This article does not serve as a general overview of twee pop; rather, it focuses on a specific subgenre. It does not accurately portray the post-punk nature of twee pop, which is not the same thing as simple "feminine punk." I'm debating whether or not to rewrite the majority of this article. 82.27.209.76 ( talk) 20:38, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
The lede says that twee pop is "an offshoot of the Twee movement," without any further explanation (couldn't find anything in the source either). Is this referring to broader twee subculture, a la peter pan collars and colored tights? If so, seems like that warrants its own article.
I'd prob argue that twee subculture grew out of twee pop (twee subculture is associated with the 2010s from what I know), not the other way around, but seems notable enough on its own anyway. Plenty of notable coverage. Thoughts? Remainsuncertain ( talk) 03:58, 19 August 2023 (UTC)