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Archive 1 |
I'm making a quick adjustment in the Turbo Duo section. There was no "official" pack in HuCard game for the Duo. NEC changed the promotion several times, at one point it was Dungeon Explorer, at another time it was Ninja Spirit. A number of games were offered as a pack-in as well as after a time a random pack in. Another note that is unecessary is the note about the TurboExpress and having dead pixels. TurboZoneDirect can confirm this as can many consumers who own their portables with dead pixels. Simply put it's a real problem and I'm not sure who edited that but the disclaimer is absolutely unecessary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.167.117.10 ( talk • contribs) 05:05, 16 March 2005 (UTC)
they were not the size of a credit card, they were smaller. Making a change. Jafafa Hots 08:32, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Ouch, I wish I caught this sooner. Actually, HuCards are indeed the same size as a credit-card, except they are THICKER. Please verify before editing :) Esteban666 00:24, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
The HuCard dimensions are 85mm x 54mm x 2mm, compared to credit card dimensions of approximately 0.75mm in thickness and between 85 and 86mm in length. The widths appear to be exactly the same. Xenowing 05:36, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Hi folks. Anyone interested in fixing up this page (perhaps structuring it differently)? It has improved over the years, somewhat, but I always felt like these were bandaids slapped onto a weak foundation. I am not even happy with my edits -- I think we can do a lot better :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Esteban666 ( talk • contribs) 21:26, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't see very much towards the Nintendo Revolution virtual console. I think we'll see alot more visitors to the page now that it has benn confirmed for the VC. (After all, it's what brought me hear ;) )
As I'm, clumsy and new to the wiki, I don't think I can or will do it. ;
Thanks,
ComKeen 23:46, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
No other console entry on wikipedia combines the Japanese name and the American one into the same article. I'm removing the merger request. 68.229.165.237 03:47, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
I merged the articles. It's a bit sloppy, but it was the only logical choice. Famicom and NES are the same article, Mega Drive and Genesis are also in the article, and Super Nintendo and Super Famicom as well. – KAMiKAZOW 17:14, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Ok, now for the million dollar question, why didn't the TurboDuo and SuperGrafx pages get merged into this one as well? BcRIPster 07:26, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
HARDWARE: Not to be overly technical, but is it accurate to label the PCE / TG-16 hardware as fundamentally 8-bit, as the intro states? I don't know the answer, that is why I am asking. Is the answer clear-cut? Or is there some debate, technically, on how to classify hybrid hardware like this? I know that the PCE / TG-16 is *not* a true 16-bit, but it seems to exist somewhere on the continuum between "proper" 8- and 16- bit systems (NES <-> SNES, SMS <-> Genesis).
GENERATION: Again, this isn't clear cut for me. Clearly, in North America, the TG-16 is associated with the 16-bit generation, since it launched at the same time as Sega's Genesis and both companies marketed their consoles as "the next era" in video games.
However, when we look at the larger picture and include the PCE and Japan, the PCE is clearly associated with the 8-bit generation (being a contemporary of Nintendo's and Sega's 8-bit consoles in Japan).
if you are looking at japan's console launches then you will see that everything is launched earlier, and therefore in that territory there was still ages between the launch of 8-bit consoles such as the nes and the pc engine as the nes was also launched years earlier there
Therefore, I submit that the PCE spans both the 8-bit and 16-bit generations.
RECOMMENDATIONS: Now that the PCE and TG-16 entries at wikipedia have merged, we have a big headache to deal with. Each console has a distinct history and we really can't generalize about them. All future edits and revisions should keep this in mind -- lest we confuse folks! Clearly state whether you are discussing / referring to PCE, TG-16 or both.
Thanks Esteban666 00:52, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
My follow up:
The PC-Engine is an 8-bit system in every sense (8-bit CPU with 8-bit data bus). It's video chips have a selectable 8-bit/16-bit interface which is used in 8-bit mode, not that it matters: We could argue semantics about the video chips working in units of 16 bits, but for that matter so does the Sega Master System and plenty of other consoles which are decidedly 8-bit. If that was how we measured bitness of a console, the Genesis has hybrid 16-bit/256-bit video (!) but is well known as a 16-bit system based on it's CPU specfications.
The misunderstanding about it being 16-bit can be blamed on the "TurboGrafx-16" name. That was marketing spin, it is not a 16-bit system. (likewise, the SNK Neo Geo wasn't 24-bit though marketing decided it's 16-bit + 8-bit CPUs made it 24-bit)
REPLY: Excellent, thanks for clearing that up. OK, so if you are correct, then TG-16 / PCE can be definitively categorized as 8-bit hardware. However, as far as the "Generation" is concerned, TG-16 and PCE span both 8-bit and 16-bit eras and are considered the comtemporaries of Famicom, MegaDrive and SuperFamicom (in Japan) and contemporaries of Genesis, SNES (in North America). Esteban666 20:09, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Here's the facts. The system was marketed as a 16-bit system in the U.S. by name if nothing else. It is not a pure 8-bit system, it is a hybrid. I can't speak for the late 80's Japanese gaming press, and unless we get a native speaker who was also had first hand experience with the early PCE marketing efforts we're basically making guesses. Here are the facts about Japan though; for the products life cycle it's chief competition in the market was the SNES. The MegaDrive was a distant third in the market between those two. Yes it did have overlap with other platforms.
The PCE (87) and MegaDrive (88) are only a year apart by release dates. It's clear by deductive observation that NEC enters the market and releases the PCE as competition to the NES (83) and Master System (86). Sega quickly turns around and and releases the MegaDrive and starts their 16-bit branding to present themselves as the next generation (companies weren't even using this distinction until the MegaDrive (88/89)!!!) When both go to bring their new platforms to the US, "x-bit" is now established as a branding distinction so both companies in 89 launch in N.A. with NEC adopting it to be competitive with Sega, via "Well they just have it written on their console. Let's put it in the name of our console so it has higher visibility". No I didn't hear anyone say this but that is standard marketing logic that I can only presume guided the naming decision.
Just because NEC didn't invent a branding strategy at product launch that didn't even exist until a year later doesn't mean that the initial PCE is open for exclusion as 16-bit. The PCE/TG not only has a 16-bit chip it it, it's games also featured the hallmarks of 16-bit gaming (eg, larger sprites, larger color palette, etc...). AND for six of the of the eight official years of the PCE/TG products life cycle it is referred to as a 16-bit gaming system (FOR WHATEVER REASON). This is silly. It's this type of arguing on this site that makes me insane sometimes. BcRIPster ( talk) 17:31, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
According to this Hudson Soft forum thread, a PAL Turbographx was never officially released, but was rather, a grey market item. This information appears to have come from John Greiner, president of Hudson Soft. A Hudson employee has posted Greiner's response to the question about half way down the page
"Because I love you guys, I went and pestered Mr. Greiner for you this morning! The Turbo Grafx was never officially released in Europe. It was however, given distribution as a "gray market" item through the Guillemot brothers (now owners of Ubisoft). The sold around 50,000 units and it made them a lot of money. They basically took the PC Engine and put PAL conversion units onto them and enabled them to play US games.
As stated, the Turbo Grafx was a gray market item, therefore there was no advertising, official Hudson marketing, or other aspects involved in the process - though we gave Guillemot a lot of support. NEC handled the distribution of games in Europe which were basically the American titles you all know and love. The system could be found on store shelves throughout Europe and received a lot of press coverage as well from the various magazines there."
Here is the thread http://hudsonent.com/viewtopic.php?t=44&sid=f236051d12b1668bbdf7f5cf64646054 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Andrew WD ( talk • contribs) 09:44, 3 October 2006 (UTC).
For what it's worth, there is apparently a company named "Raven Games" that will convert these PAL units (as well as NTSC units) to SCART. I only became aware of them when I found one of their Duo conversions for sale on e-bay. BcRIPster 16:10, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
It's like reading from the worst of EGM. The history information is completely wrong on the hows and why's behind software distribution in the U.S. I've been strugling with this re-write for almost 30 minutes now and I'm about to just trash the whole segment and go from scratch. To start with ...the situation as of October of 1993 as I tried to explain to members of the Turbo-List mailing list...
Here is the chain of events that would get a game released by TTI in the U.S.... unless TTI directly negotiated a deal with a Third party developer such as Working Designs.
For a Japanese release to come over to the U.S., Hudson would aquire the rights to it for use on the PC-Engine. At this point if TTI (U.S.) wanted to get this game, they would first have to purchase the rights from Hudson Japan, then do a conversion on the title themselves in the U.S. (localization, etc...).
This literally created a situation where if a game came out in the U.S. first, without a direct partnership agreement with TTI (say, a game on another platform), and TTI wanted to release it. Hudson Japan would have to aquire the rights for the Japanese release and convert it to Japanese. Then TTI would buy the rights from Hudson and convert it back to English. I am not kidding about this! They can not skip this step and port the English version directly. This was pretty much the same process prior to the change over to TTI, only in the earlier case Hudson U.S. had to buy the title from Hudson Japan before they could do the conversion.
Therefore as you can guess, it cost a chunk of cash for games to be brought into U.S. Towards the end it was an even slower process since they had hardly any staff to do localization and conversions. This explains why you never saw all that many japanese conversions to begin with, and rarely any top-tier games.
Seriously! This was confirmed to me by various contacts I had within TTI, Hudson U.S. and Hudson Japan whom I would talk to during that time period. It was so insane I kept tracking down other people and asking them if this was true. It still boggles the mind.
Towards the end, 3DO swiped TTI's head of P.R. in the U.S. (although she quickly left 3DO for Sega), and Sega eventually hired some of their remaining U.S. programming staff away to work on Saturn development. BcRIPster 07:33, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus. -- Jtalledo (talk) 15:22, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
TurboGrafx-16 →
PC Engine — PC Engine is the more recognized term for the platform internationally, and the more sucessful product line of the two. TurboGrafx-16 should redirect to PC Engine. Effectively swap how it is now.
BcRIPster
20:15, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Let's check this disaster: First of all, external links description should be four or five words, not a full paragraph. I am cutting them all to the minimum.
So, the first step was deleting all the duplicate links, we don't need to post five or six external links to the same site. Then reduced the description of every external link. Now, I am also removing the dead sites, and the ones that are not in English (this is an English article about a Japanese artifact, we don't need links to German or any other language here, existing links in Japanese and English). Finally, I remove the ones that don't have Alexa ranking, you would have gotten at least some ranking if you had been following the Turbo Grafx earlier. Finally, I also remove the emulator link, because this article is focused in the console, not in emulators of the console. Oh, and don't forget vgden.com, it is a really new site, we need long standing ones, not sites created some months ago.
Now we can discuss the others. The lower the Alexa ranking, the more visited the site is. The first two ones "inherit" their Alexa ranking from their hosts, so we will leave them to the last. As for the others, I would prefer linking to sites that are fully focused in the console, and not sites that have a single section about them. -- ReyBrujo 04:26, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
The article says that the PC Engine system, thanks to the Arcade Card, could display '3D polygon graphics'. What games do you have in mind ? The graphics displayed in games such as Ginga Fukei Densetsu Sapphire are pre-rendered sprites, as far as I know, and not real-time 3D graphics. The only real-time 3D graphics displayed by the PC Engine (that I know of) seems to be the vector graphic introdution of Space Invaders... -- Lkermel 19:18, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Image:Airzonk flyer.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 19:21, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Image:Sgx ghoulsghosts.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 03:52, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
What does the "PC" actually mean? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.139.61.151 ( talk • contribs) 20:42, 24 June 2007 (UTC).
There was a rumor that the US console size was doubled due to the perception in the western market that a larger console contained more technology and thus was valued more. The Japanese unit is a perfect square where as the US unit is double in width and almost 1.5 units in depth. It is also possible that by creating a larger unit for the western market, the components could be more spread out and more cost effective for production. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.92.141.114 ( talk) 14:23, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
There is so much attitude on this page of "the system failed", "the system's limitations", etc... It's like a Sega fanboy wrote it. The reality is the system wasn't a failure by any stretch of the imagination internationally, and the U.S. failures were more driven by corporate marketing decisions than anything else (weak library compared to Asia and no advertising). BcRIPster ( talk) 11:38, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Image:Sgx ghoulsghosts.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 05:36, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Just a slight nitpick but the first 16-bit console was the Intellivision (CPU was a 894.886 kHz CP1610) not the Genesis/Megadrive. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.140.0.53 ( talk) 04:47, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
"One reason for this was that many larger software companies such as Konami supported the PC Engine in Japan, but also produced games for Nintendo. Nintendo at the time had engaged in anti-competitive practices that were later ruled illegal (citation needed)" I think that was the one where Nintendo got sued and had to give out $5 coupons off the purchase of an NES game. Might it be in one of the editions of Game Over: How Nintendo Zapped an American Industry, Captured Your Dollars, and Enslaved Your Children? -- Damian Yerrick ( talk | stalk) 01:52, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
The first paragraph isn't quite correct. Living in Europe, I met someone that had a PC-Engine, also some videogame shops in Germany advertised their grey-imports of PC-Engines in computer/videogame-magazines. So it's wrong to write that only the Turbografx model was imported here. 83.77.205.247 ( talk) 11:59, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Good grief, it's like someone just pasted [citation needed] at the end of every other sentence. For instance "NEC also published a handful of newsletters (TurboEdge) and sent them to customers that sent in their TG-16 warranty cards or subscribed to TurboPlay. These newsletters were black and white, mostly text, and four to eight pages in length."
How the hell do you cite something like that. It's not like the NYTimes did an article about how to get your newsletter. The systems came with a mail in warranty card like every friggin' electronics product you buy, and they sent you a newsletter when you did (again, not an unheard of practice with some electronics companies). BcRIPster ( talk) 01:00, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
This area of the article was a bit of a mess. I'm basically done doing a major rewrite of this section (recycling some useful parts of the old section). I've tried to eliminate much of the subjectivity and inaccurate information and all the grammar/spelling errors that I could find. The section is a bit larger now, but I believe it to be for the better. Hopefully we're a little closer to getting the nasty Wiki-tags off the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fragmare ( talk • contribs) 00:42, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
The image's copyright is in question, it appears to be an altered version of the image found here: http://www.theoldcomputer.com/Libarary%27s/Emulation/TurboGraphics16/TurboGrafx-16.jpg and poorly altered at that. I urge the community to replace this image with a higher quality version, the distorted image doesn't even accurately represent the device. I'll try to get one myself if I'm able. Mopenstein ( talk) 20:45, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
Several people have asked me why Video Game Den (www.videogameden.com) wasn't listed in the external links for this wikipedia page. Before adding it, I'd like to discuss it here with you first. I have nearly 350 PC Engine game reviewed on my site with scans and information found nowhere else on the web. Do you think I could add it to the list of external links ? Thanks. -- Lkermel ( talk) 17:34, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
more important than the 8bit vs 16bit wrestle: max amount of sprites per scanline.
youtube gradius 1 : a shitload of sprites. I was not yet able to see flicker. It is more than 8 per scanline (except there are BOBs of which I do not know).
bitness had never any real meaning
- the "16bit" 68000 in Amiga did without any doubt run a 32bit OS. - the "8bit" C64 had less problems scrolling than the "16bit" Atari ST
max sprites per scanline figure is an important figure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.230.72.187 ( talk) 03:49, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
This sentence makes no sence "Meanwhile, advertising comic-books inserted into copies of various gaming magazines. (Johnny Turbo was the alter-ego of game developer Jonathan C. Brandstetter.)"
were inserted maybe?
IDK SInce Im not sure what the original author was trying to say ill leave it to you guys.-- 76.85.173.34 ( talk) 07:23, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
Once again egocentric English people don't read foreign language sources and think Europe = UK.
The PC-Engine was released in France, there was a big buzz about the console but the Japaneses were too busy with the then coming soon US release and gave "white card" (French expression to say "do what you want") to Sodipeng to distribute the console in France. The consoles were imported from Japan and modified in France to be compatible with the French standards. Games were either in Japanese or English and not translated in French, but quick instructions in French to help understand the game mechanics were inserted into the game boxes. The console launched in November 1989 to small size distribution and from January 1990 big resellers started to sell it. The first year the console sold 30,000 units, it was far behind the NES and SMS consoles.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC-Engine#En_France —Preceding unsigned comment added by GRAND OUTCAST ( talk • contribs) 16:02, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
This should take a step up for whole Wikipedia. Seeing English Wikipedia as a USA thing is something of the past. If you want English as reference language, make the English pages universal. So that means the console is first of all a PC Engine (biggest quantity sold under that name, and even in the USA people hunt for PC Engines nowadays, not the black TG box). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.179.27.254 ( talk) 12:11, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
Where do these dates come from? I'm not too familiar with the North American market, but the PC Engine was imported in France from 1988 to early 1995. In Japan, the console was still officially retailed well beyond December 1994, and games released until late 1996 -- the last Hudson game was Seiya Monogatari in December 1995. Somehow I seriously doubt the TurboGrafx market lasted longer than the PC Engine one. Kaminari ( talk) 00:14, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
Why? Without a compelling reason I will be restoring it. BcRIPster ( talk) 18:11, 10 January 2011 (UTC) It's no region protection, just a different pin-out of the carts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.179.27.254 ( talk) 12:13, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
I don't tend to get involved in the politics of Wikipedia, but I reckon the CD-ROM²/TurboGrafx-CD should be split into its own page. From a North American perspective it probably makes sense - the TurboGrafx-CD wasn't amazingly popular, but in Japan there's loads of games for the system and at least one other model.
You guys split the Sega Mega Drive, Sega Mega CD and Sega 32X into separate pages and it seems to work. I know there's a few combo systems getting in the way (though the same can be said about the Wondermega and Multi-Mega) but I think the CD-ROM² warrants its own page. You guys have a separate page for the TurboExpress and that's pretty much identical to the normal TurboGrafx-16, just in handheld form.
I know the story behind the CD-ROM² is less "exotic" than the Mega CD but I'd argue it's a better idea than having a page for a SNES redesign. - Black Squirrel 2 ( talk) 15:57, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
Actually, I think we need to start orienting this thing over to "PC Engine". The saga of the TurboGrafx-16 is an incredibly tiny part of the saga of the PC Engine, more so than any other localization I can think of; it is vital that we treat PC Engine as the default.
If anyone cares, I just did a simple Google search on "PC Engine" and "TurboGrafx": 3.4M versus 2.4M. As always, that means less than it seems, but it's there. Despatche ( talk) 09:57, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was not moved. -- BDD ( talk) 19:24, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
TurboGrafx-16 →
PC Engine – Since "PC Engine" is more common than "TurboGrafx-16" (and "PC Engine" sold more in the rest of the world), this article should be renamed "PC Engine".
Magicperson6969 (
talk)
03:42, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
I don't think GPU is the correct term, at least not in the current sense (and therefore shouldn't be linked to the entry on GPU). Would it be a frame buffer? Or blitter? -- 209.203.125.162 ( talk) 20:33, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
I was going to add info from a news blurb in GamePro to this article, only to find that this article's organization is so messy that even though the info I wanted to add is a significant piece of the TurboGrafx-16's history, there's no reasonable place to put it in this article. The size of the article is also extremely bloated given that there are only 24 references, due to a large amount of repeated information across multiple sections and plain old original research. A major fixup is clearly needed. Here's what I propose to do:
Any suggestions on how to improve the above plan are welcome.-- Martin IIIa ( talk) 13:12, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
Based on reading the Gamasutra article mentioned above, quite a bit of information on here is wrong. Off the top of my head, the install base in the U.S. was not 2.5 million. From the article: "The initial order NEC made in 1989 for 750,000 units never sold through to U.S. customers." I doubt there were 2 million people that bought a TurboDuo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eday 2010 ( talk • contribs) 19:57, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
Someone in a previous talk section from 2010 mentioned the PC Engine release in France in 1989. It is mentioned in the French Wikipedia article (and has sources too). Also the Japanese wikipedia article also has the November 1989 release for France in the infobox. For these reasons, I've added France on the intro and infobox, because there's enough evidence already to support that.
EDIT: I've put France in brackets in an EU format for the vgrelease template because there is no 'FR'.-- G&CP ( talk) 22:33, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
Aren't the first three paragraphs within the reception section gibberish? They read like badly translated japanese. Not being a contributor, I won't change myself, but it seems those paragraphs could be removed entirely. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.185.54.52 ( talk) 14:49, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
The citation used for "units sold" for the past decade was likely circular reporting, aka a citogenesis incident. Here's the 2007 timeline:
I wanted more than circumstantial evidence, so I kept digging...
-- Juventas ( talk) 06:35, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
This article uses the term "CD-ROM²" a lot, using the extended-ASCII "²" character (0xb2). Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Superscripts and subscripts#General guidelines, however, says to use "CD-ROM<sup>2</sup>" instead. Is it correct to "fix" these?
There is also the tricky case of the CD-ROM² redirect to this article (again, with the 0xb2 character). I don't see a way of making a superscript 2 work in a redirect (i.e. [[CD-ROM2]] isn't recognized as link markup). It seems that inlinks from other articles would have to be either CD-ROM2 or CD-ROM2, right? —[ AlanM1( talk)]— 11:32, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I'm making a quick adjustment in the Turbo Duo section. There was no "official" pack in HuCard game for the Duo. NEC changed the promotion several times, at one point it was Dungeon Explorer, at another time it was Ninja Spirit. A number of games were offered as a pack-in as well as after a time a random pack in. Another note that is unecessary is the note about the TurboExpress and having dead pixels. TurboZoneDirect can confirm this as can many consumers who own their portables with dead pixels. Simply put it's a real problem and I'm not sure who edited that but the disclaimer is absolutely unecessary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.167.117.10 ( talk • contribs) 05:05, 16 March 2005 (UTC)
they were not the size of a credit card, they were smaller. Making a change. Jafafa Hots 08:32, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Ouch, I wish I caught this sooner. Actually, HuCards are indeed the same size as a credit-card, except they are THICKER. Please verify before editing :) Esteban666 00:24, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
The HuCard dimensions are 85mm x 54mm x 2mm, compared to credit card dimensions of approximately 0.75mm in thickness and between 85 and 86mm in length. The widths appear to be exactly the same. Xenowing 05:36, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Hi folks. Anyone interested in fixing up this page (perhaps structuring it differently)? It has improved over the years, somewhat, but I always felt like these were bandaids slapped onto a weak foundation. I am not even happy with my edits -- I think we can do a lot better :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Esteban666 ( talk • contribs) 21:26, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't see very much towards the Nintendo Revolution virtual console. I think we'll see alot more visitors to the page now that it has benn confirmed for the VC. (After all, it's what brought me hear ;) )
As I'm, clumsy and new to the wiki, I don't think I can or will do it. ;
Thanks,
ComKeen 23:46, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
No other console entry on wikipedia combines the Japanese name and the American one into the same article. I'm removing the merger request. 68.229.165.237 03:47, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
I merged the articles. It's a bit sloppy, but it was the only logical choice. Famicom and NES are the same article, Mega Drive and Genesis are also in the article, and Super Nintendo and Super Famicom as well. – KAMiKAZOW 17:14, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Ok, now for the million dollar question, why didn't the TurboDuo and SuperGrafx pages get merged into this one as well? BcRIPster 07:26, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
HARDWARE: Not to be overly technical, but is it accurate to label the PCE / TG-16 hardware as fundamentally 8-bit, as the intro states? I don't know the answer, that is why I am asking. Is the answer clear-cut? Or is there some debate, technically, on how to classify hybrid hardware like this? I know that the PCE / TG-16 is *not* a true 16-bit, but it seems to exist somewhere on the continuum between "proper" 8- and 16- bit systems (NES <-> SNES, SMS <-> Genesis).
GENERATION: Again, this isn't clear cut for me. Clearly, in North America, the TG-16 is associated with the 16-bit generation, since it launched at the same time as Sega's Genesis and both companies marketed their consoles as "the next era" in video games.
However, when we look at the larger picture and include the PCE and Japan, the PCE is clearly associated with the 8-bit generation (being a contemporary of Nintendo's and Sega's 8-bit consoles in Japan).
if you are looking at japan's console launches then you will see that everything is launched earlier, and therefore in that territory there was still ages between the launch of 8-bit consoles such as the nes and the pc engine as the nes was also launched years earlier there
Therefore, I submit that the PCE spans both the 8-bit and 16-bit generations.
RECOMMENDATIONS: Now that the PCE and TG-16 entries at wikipedia have merged, we have a big headache to deal with. Each console has a distinct history and we really can't generalize about them. All future edits and revisions should keep this in mind -- lest we confuse folks! Clearly state whether you are discussing / referring to PCE, TG-16 or both.
Thanks Esteban666 00:52, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
My follow up:
The PC-Engine is an 8-bit system in every sense (8-bit CPU with 8-bit data bus). It's video chips have a selectable 8-bit/16-bit interface which is used in 8-bit mode, not that it matters: We could argue semantics about the video chips working in units of 16 bits, but for that matter so does the Sega Master System and plenty of other consoles which are decidedly 8-bit. If that was how we measured bitness of a console, the Genesis has hybrid 16-bit/256-bit video (!) but is well known as a 16-bit system based on it's CPU specfications.
The misunderstanding about it being 16-bit can be blamed on the "TurboGrafx-16" name. That was marketing spin, it is not a 16-bit system. (likewise, the SNK Neo Geo wasn't 24-bit though marketing decided it's 16-bit + 8-bit CPUs made it 24-bit)
REPLY: Excellent, thanks for clearing that up. OK, so if you are correct, then TG-16 / PCE can be definitively categorized as 8-bit hardware. However, as far as the "Generation" is concerned, TG-16 and PCE span both 8-bit and 16-bit eras and are considered the comtemporaries of Famicom, MegaDrive and SuperFamicom (in Japan) and contemporaries of Genesis, SNES (in North America). Esteban666 20:09, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Here's the facts. The system was marketed as a 16-bit system in the U.S. by name if nothing else. It is not a pure 8-bit system, it is a hybrid. I can't speak for the late 80's Japanese gaming press, and unless we get a native speaker who was also had first hand experience with the early PCE marketing efforts we're basically making guesses. Here are the facts about Japan though; for the products life cycle it's chief competition in the market was the SNES. The MegaDrive was a distant third in the market between those two. Yes it did have overlap with other platforms.
The PCE (87) and MegaDrive (88) are only a year apart by release dates. It's clear by deductive observation that NEC enters the market and releases the PCE as competition to the NES (83) and Master System (86). Sega quickly turns around and and releases the MegaDrive and starts their 16-bit branding to present themselves as the next generation (companies weren't even using this distinction until the MegaDrive (88/89)!!!) When both go to bring their new platforms to the US, "x-bit" is now established as a branding distinction so both companies in 89 launch in N.A. with NEC adopting it to be competitive with Sega, via "Well they just have it written on their console. Let's put it in the name of our console so it has higher visibility". No I didn't hear anyone say this but that is standard marketing logic that I can only presume guided the naming decision.
Just because NEC didn't invent a branding strategy at product launch that didn't even exist until a year later doesn't mean that the initial PCE is open for exclusion as 16-bit. The PCE/TG not only has a 16-bit chip it it, it's games also featured the hallmarks of 16-bit gaming (eg, larger sprites, larger color palette, etc...). AND for six of the of the eight official years of the PCE/TG products life cycle it is referred to as a 16-bit gaming system (FOR WHATEVER REASON). This is silly. It's this type of arguing on this site that makes me insane sometimes. BcRIPster ( talk) 17:31, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
According to this Hudson Soft forum thread, a PAL Turbographx was never officially released, but was rather, a grey market item. This information appears to have come from John Greiner, president of Hudson Soft. A Hudson employee has posted Greiner's response to the question about half way down the page
"Because I love you guys, I went and pestered Mr. Greiner for you this morning! The Turbo Grafx was never officially released in Europe. It was however, given distribution as a "gray market" item through the Guillemot brothers (now owners of Ubisoft). The sold around 50,000 units and it made them a lot of money. They basically took the PC Engine and put PAL conversion units onto them and enabled them to play US games.
As stated, the Turbo Grafx was a gray market item, therefore there was no advertising, official Hudson marketing, or other aspects involved in the process - though we gave Guillemot a lot of support. NEC handled the distribution of games in Europe which were basically the American titles you all know and love. The system could be found on store shelves throughout Europe and received a lot of press coverage as well from the various magazines there."
Here is the thread http://hudsonent.com/viewtopic.php?t=44&sid=f236051d12b1668bbdf7f5cf64646054 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Andrew WD ( talk • contribs) 09:44, 3 October 2006 (UTC).
For what it's worth, there is apparently a company named "Raven Games" that will convert these PAL units (as well as NTSC units) to SCART. I only became aware of them when I found one of their Duo conversions for sale on e-bay. BcRIPster 16:10, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
It's like reading from the worst of EGM. The history information is completely wrong on the hows and why's behind software distribution in the U.S. I've been strugling with this re-write for almost 30 minutes now and I'm about to just trash the whole segment and go from scratch. To start with ...the situation as of October of 1993 as I tried to explain to members of the Turbo-List mailing list...
Here is the chain of events that would get a game released by TTI in the U.S.... unless TTI directly negotiated a deal with a Third party developer such as Working Designs.
For a Japanese release to come over to the U.S., Hudson would aquire the rights to it for use on the PC-Engine. At this point if TTI (U.S.) wanted to get this game, they would first have to purchase the rights from Hudson Japan, then do a conversion on the title themselves in the U.S. (localization, etc...).
This literally created a situation where if a game came out in the U.S. first, without a direct partnership agreement with TTI (say, a game on another platform), and TTI wanted to release it. Hudson Japan would have to aquire the rights for the Japanese release and convert it to Japanese. Then TTI would buy the rights from Hudson and convert it back to English. I am not kidding about this! They can not skip this step and port the English version directly. This was pretty much the same process prior to the change over to TTI, only in the earlier case Hudson U.S. had to buy the title from Hudson Japan before they could do the conversion.
Therefore as you can guess, it cost a chunk of cash for games to be brought into U.S. Towards the end it was an even slower process since they had hardly any staff to do localization and conversions. This explains why you never saw all that many japanese conversions to begin with, and rarely any top-tier games.
Seriously! This was confirmed to me by various contacts I had within TTI, Hudson U.S. and Hudson Japan whom I would talk to during that time period. It was so insane I kept tracking down other people and asking them if this was true. It still boggles the mind.
Towards the end, 3DO swiped TTI's head of P.R. in the U.S. (although she quickly left 3DO for Sega), and Sega eventually hired some of their remaining U.S. programming staff away to work on Saturn development. BcRIPster 07:33, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus. -- Jtalledo (talk) 15:22, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
TurboGrafx-16 →
PC Engine — PC Engine is the more recognized term for the platform internationally, and the more sucessful product line of the two. TurboGrafx-16 should redirect to PC Engine. Effectively swap how it is now.
BcRIPster
20:15, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Let's check this disaster: First of all, external links description should be four or five words, not a full paragraph. I am cutting them all to the minimum.
So, the first step was deleting all the duplicate links, we don't need to post five or six external links to the same site. Then reduced the description of every external link. Now, I am also removing the dead sites, and the ones that are not in English (this is an English article about a Japanese artifact, we don't need links to German or any other language here, existing links in Japanese and English). Finally, I remove the ones that don't have Alexa ranking, you would have gotten at least some ranking if you had been following the Turbo Grafx earlier. Finally, I also remove the emulator link, because this article is focused in the console, not in emulators of the console. Oh, and don't forget vgden.com, it is a really new site, we need long standing ones, not sites created some months ago.
Now we can discuss the others. The lower the Alexa ranking, the more visited the site is. The first two ones "inherit" their Alexa ranking from their hosts, so we will leave them to the last. As for the others, I would prefer linking to sites that are fully focused in the console, and not sites that have a single section about them. -- ReyBrujo 04:26, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
The article says that the PC Engine system, thanks to the Arcade Card, could display '3D polygon graphics'. What games do you have in mind ? The graphics displayed in games such as Ginga Fukei Densetsu Sapphire are pre-rendered sprites, as far as I know, and not real-time 3D graphics. The only real-time 3D graphics displayed by the PC Engine (that I know of) seems to be the vector graphic introdution of Space Invaders... -- Lkermel 19:18, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Image:Airzonk flyer.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 19:21, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Image:Sgx ghoulsghosts.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 03:52, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
What does the "PC" actually mean? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.139.61.151 ( talk • contribs) 20:42, 24 June 2007 (UTC).
There was a rumor that the US console size was doubled due to the perception in the western market that a larger console contained more technology and thus was valued more. The Japanese unit is a perfect square where as the US unit is double in width and almost 1.5 units in depth. It is also possible that by creating a larger unit for the western market, the components could be more spread out and more cost effective for production. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.92.141.114 ( talk) 14:23, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
There is so much attitude on this page of "the system failed", "the system's limitations", etc... It's like a Sega fanboy wrote it. The reality is the system wasn't a failure by any stretch of the imagination internationally, and the U.S. failures were more driven by corporate marketing decisions than anything else (weak library compared to Asia and no advertising). BcRIPster ( talk) 11:38, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Image:Sgx ghoulsghosts.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 05:36, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Just a slight nitpick but the first 16-bit console was the Intellivision (CPU was a 894.886 kHz CP1610) not the Genesis/Megadrive. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.140.0.53 ( talk) 04:47, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
"One reason for this was that many larger software companies such as Konami supported the PC Engine in Japan, but also produced games for Nintendo. Nintendo at the time had engaged in anti-competitive practices that were later ruled illegal (citation needed)" I think that was the one where Nintendo got sued and had to give out $5 coupons off the purchase of an NES game. Might it be in one of the editions of Game Over: How Nintendo Zapped an American Industry, Captured Your Dollars, and Enslaved Your Children? -- Damian Yerrick ( talk | stalk) 01:52, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
The first paragraph isn't quite correct. Living in Europe, I met someone that had a PC-Engine, also some videogame shops in Germany advertised their grey-imports of PC-Engines in computer/videogame-magazines. So it's wrong to write that only the Turbografx model was imported here. 83.77.205.247 ( talk) 11:59, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Good grief, it's like someone just pasted [citation needed] at the end of every other sentence. For instance "NEC also published a handful of newsletters (TurboEdge) and sent them to customers that sent in their TG-16 warranty cards or subscribed to TurboPlay. These newsletters were black and white, mostly text, and four to eight pages in length."
How the hell do you cite something like that. It's not like the NYTimes did an article about how to get your newsletter. The systems came with a mail in warranty card like every friggin' electronics product you buy, and they sent you a newsletter when you did (again, not an unheard of practice with some electronics companies). BcRIPster ( talk) 01:00, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
This area of the article was a bit of a mess. I'm basically done doing a major rewrite of this section (recycling some useful parts of the old section). I've tried to eliminate much of the subjectivity and inaccurate information and all the grammar/spelling errors that I could find. The section is a bit larger now, but I believe it to be for the better. Hopefully we're a little closer to getting the nasty Wiki-tags off the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fragmare ( talk • contribs) 00:42, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
The image's copyright is in question, it appears to be an altered version of the image found here: http://www.theoldcomputer.com/Libarary%27s/Emulation/TurboGraphics16/TurboGrafx-16.jpg and poorly altered at that. I urge the community to replace this image with a higher quality version, the distorted image doesn't even accurately represent the device. I'll try to get one myself if I'm able. Mopenstein ( talk) 20:45, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
Several people have asked me why Video Game Den (www.videogameden.com) wasn't listed in the external links for this wikipedia page. Before adding it, I'd like to discuss it here with you first. I have nearly 350 PC Engine game reviewed on my site with scans and information found nowhere else on the web. Do you think I could add it to the list of external links ? Thanks. -- Lkermel ( talk) 17:34, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
more important than the 8bit vs 16bit wrestle: max amount of sprites per scanline.
youtube gradius 1 : a shitload of sprites. I was not yet able to see flicker. It is more than 8 per scanline (except there are BOBs of which I do not know).
bitness had never any real meaning
- the "16bit" 68000 in Amiga did without any doubt run a 32bit OS. - the "8bit" C64 had less problems scrolling than the "16bit" Atari ST
max sprites per scanline figure is an important figure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.230.72.187 ( talk) 03:49, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
This sentence makes no sence "Meanwhile, advertising comic-books inserted into copies of various gaming magazines. (Johnny Turbo was the alter-ego of game developer Jonathan C. Brandstetter.)"
were inserted maybe?
IDK SInce Im not sure what the original author was trying to say ill leave it to you guys.-- 76.85.173.34 ( talk) 07:23, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
Once again egocentric English people don't read foreign language sources and think Europe = UK.
The PC-Engine was released in France, there was a big buzz about the console but the Japaneses were too busy with the then coming soon US release and gave "white card" (French expression to say "do what you want") to Sodipeng to distribute the console in France. The consoles were imported from Japan and modified in France to be compatible with the French standards. Games were either in Japanese or English and not translated in French, but quick instructions in French to help understand the game mechanics were inserted into the game boxes. The console launched in November 1989 to small size distribution and from January 1990 big resellers started to sell it. The first year the console sold 30,000 units, it was far behind the NES and SMS consoles.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC-Engine#En_France —Preceding unsigned comment added by GRAND OUTCAST ( talk • contribs) 16:02, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
This should take a step up for whole Wikipedia. Seeing English Wikipedia as a USA thing is something of the past. If you want English as reference language, make the English pages universal. So that means the console is first of all a PC Engine (biggest quantity sold under that name, and even in the USA people hunt for PC Engines nowadays, not the black TG box). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.179.27.254 ( talk) 12:11, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
Where do these dates come from? I'm not too familiar with the North American market, but the PC Engine was imported in France from 1988 to early 1995. In Japan, the console was still officially retailed well beyond December 1994, and games released until late 1996 -- the last Hudson game was Seiya Monogatari in December 1995. Somehow I seriously doubt the TurboGrafx market lasted longer than the PC Engine one. Kaminari ( talk) 00:14, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
Why? Without a compelling reason I will be restoring it. BcRIPster ( talk) 18:11, 10 January 2011 (UTC) It's no region protection, just a different pin-out of the carts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.179.27.254 ( talk) 12:13, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
I don't tend to get involved in the politics of Wikipedia, but I reckon the CD-ROM²/TurboGrafx-CD should be split into its own page. From a North American perspective it probably makes sense - the TurboGrafx-CD wasn't amazingly popular, but in Japan there's loads of games for the system and at least one other model.
You guys split the Sega Mega Drive, Sega Mega CD and Sega 32X into separate pages and it seems to work. I know there's a few combo systems getting in the way (though the same can be said about the Wondermega and Multi-Mega) but I think the CD-ROM² warrants its own page. You guys have a separate page for the TurboExpress and that's pretty much identical to the normal TurboGrafx-16, just in handheld form.
I know the story behind the CD-ROM² is less "exotic" than the Mega CD but I'd argue it's a better idea than having a page for a SNES redesign. - Black Squirrel 2 ( talk) 15:57, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
Actually, I think we need to start orienting this thing over to "PC Engine". The saga of the TurboGrafx-16 is an incredibly tiny part of the saga of the PC Engine, more so than any other localization I can think of; it is vital that we treat PC Engine as the default.
If anyone cares, I just did a simple Google search on "PC Engine" and "TurboGrafx": 3.4M versus 2.4M. As always, that means less than it seems, but it's there. Despatche ( talk) 09:57, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was not moved. -- BDD ( talk) 19:24, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
TurboGrafx-16 →
PC Engine – Since "PC Engine" is more common than "TurboGrafx-16" (and "PC Engine" sold more in the rest of the world), this article should be renamed "PC Engine".
Magicperson6969 (
talk)
03:42, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
I don't think GPU is the correct term, at least not in the current sense (and therefore shouldn't be linked to the entry on GPU). Would it be a frame buffer? Or blitter? -- 209.203.125.162 ( talk) 20:33, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
I was going to add info from a news blurb in GamePro to this article, only to find that this article's organization is so messy that even though the info I wanted to add is a significant piece of the TurboGrafx-16's history, there's no reasonable place to put it in this article. The size of the article is also extremely bloated given that there are only 24 references, due to a large amount of repeated information across multiple sections and plain old original research. A major fixup is clearly needed. Here's what I propose to do:
Any suggestions on how to improve the above plan are welcome.-- Martin IIIa ( talk) 13:12, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
Based on reading the Gamasutra article mentioned above, quite a bit of information on here is wrong. Off the top of my head, the install base in the U.S. was not 2.5 million. From the article: "The initial order NEC made in 1989 for 750,000 units never sold through to U.S. customers." I doubt there were 2 million people that bought a TurboDuo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eday 2010 ( talk • contribs) 19:57, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
Someone in a previous talk section from 2010 mentioned the PC Engine release in France in 1989. It is mentioned in the French Wikipedia article (and has sources too). Also the Japanese wikipedia article also has the November 1989 release for France in the infobox. For these reasons, I've added France on the intro and infobox, because there's enough evidence already to support that.
EDIT: I've put France in brackets in an EU format for the vgrelease template because there is no 'FR'.-- G&CP ( talk) 22:33, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
Aren't the first three paragraphs within the reception section gibberish? They read like badly translated japanese. Not being a contributor, I won't change myself, but it seems those paragraphs could be removed entirely. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.185.54.52 ( talk) 14:49, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
The citation used for "units sold" for the past decade was likely circular reporting, aka a citogenesis incident. Here's the 2007 timeline:
I wanted more than circumstantial evidence, so I kept digging...
-- Juventas ( talk) 06:35, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
This article uses the term "CD-ROM²" a lot, using the extended-ASCII "²" character (0xb2). Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Superscripts and subscripts#General guidelines, however, says to use "CD-ROM<sup>2</sup>" instead. Is it correct to "fix" these?
There is also the tricky case of the CD-ROM² redirect to this article (again, with the 0xb2 character). I don't see a way of making a superscript 2 work in a redirect (i.e. [[CD-ROM2]] isn't recognized as link markup). It seems that inlinks from other articles would have to be either CD-ROM2 or CD-ROM2, right? —[ AlanM1( talk)]— 11:32, 5 March 2020 (UTC)