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Hello everyone.
I am writing to propose a new term for tuples that have a length of googol (10^100) elements. At present, there is no widely recognized name for such a tuple. I would like to suggest the term "Googuple" as a potential candidate.
While "tuple of size googol" or "googol-tuple" are commonly used terms for this concept, I believe that "Googuple" would be a more concise and memorable term. Moreover, it would help prevent confusion between the number googol and the tuple of googol length.
Although "Googuple" is not yet an established term in the mathematical or computing communities, I propose it as a clear and concise alternative to the current terms in use. I invite your feedback on whether "Googuple" has merit as a term for tuples of length googol. Jossy010 ( talk) 14:09, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
This section is unsourced. Even if it would be sourced it would not belong to this article, per WP:DICT. Although this could suffices to delete this section, these are not the main reason for deleting the section.
The article is about a mathematical concept called a "tuple". Therefore, for appearing in the section, a word must be commonly used to denote a mathematical tuple. This not the case here. Most of the names are not commonly used, and most of those that are commonly used are not used for refering to a mathematical tuple. For example, a quartet is not a tuple, but a musical group. Also, the words with the suffixe "uple" that are not created specifically for this article refer generally to multiples rather to tuples. The few words that are used for tuples, either appear already in the lead (singleton, ordered pair), or are those with the suffixe "plet" (triplet, quadruplet, etc). They are used for tuples in French, but I am not certain that they have exactly the same meaning in English. If they have, it is easy to add them in a single sentence in the lead. No need of a specific section.
So, this section is not worth for this article. It is also very confusing, as presenting as synonyms words that are far to be synonyms.
As all what precedes is based on common sense and Wikipedia policies and guidelines, restoring this section requires to be strongly motivated here. D.Lazard ( talk) 16:48, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
As consensus appears to be running against this section, and the IP has been blocked, I removed the section again. — David Eppstein ( talk) 18:54, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
I agree with D.Lazard's argument above. In addition that table significantly impaired the readability/visual appearance of the article, Flooding the screen directly after the lead with completely marginal information, the encyclopedic value of which seems rather dubious at best.-- Kmhkmh ( talk) 20:33, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
I prolonged definition of tuple from being function of natural number (as set) (former status) to function of ordinal number as set. I accordance with level 5 vital article status, I placed this small enhancement directly to the page. However, I triggered series of negative responses from particular mathematicians. The problem is that we can't reach consensus in such a clear case, in my view. Why infinite tuple concept doesn't belong to Tuple page? Of course, if we accept the infinite tuple concept in Tuple page, another question immediately occurs: why not define finite and infinite tuple directly in one definition, if it is simply possible and it means just change of one word, keeping all essentials unchanged and of the same meaning. Mu suggestion is to accept that tuple is function of ordinal number as set. It is simple and fully explaining the concept of tuple together with simple implication of count of elements of tuple and basic properties. Then we say finite tuple or infinite tuple or simply tuple if we don't rely or particular properties. Please, argue if you can at this place, to make us able to reach consensus. Rbrane7 ( talk) 14:48, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
I would like to ask comments with argumentation for or against infinite tuple concept, by which I call a presence of Infinite Tuple on Tuple page.
The problem was discussed between a couple of mathematicians with no argumentation against the concept other than missing external citations. I think there should rather be discussion about arguments in general instead of just resources. The argumentation for the concept is based on axioms of Set theory namely ZFC and mainly Axiom of choice.
The opponents of the concept already attempted to ban me and separate me from editing of English Wiki. I was unbanned then, but I don't see reasonable to follow aggressive bilateral disputation with undoing actions of each other. So, I'm asking third party experts form participation in dispute.
My opinion is, that infinite tuple is inherently here, regardless how we call it. Therefore, we should not try to find different term, but rather we should note it on the tuple page. Argumentation for can be most simply based on Axiom of choice of ZFC, which effectively defines infinite Cartesian product, which is quoted on its wiki page. If we have infinite Cartesian product, which is apparently true, then I believe, we should have defined also infinite Tuple. We define the tuple most simply as function of natural number (as set (mathematics)). Infinite tuple is then simply function of ordinal number (as set (mathematics)).
So, please, give me independent opinion to my conclusions and relevancy of noting infinite Tuple on tuple page.
I already asked my colleague from studies on Faculty of Mathematics and Physics, Charles University for an opinion. He said, that he intuitively understood Tuple as finite but the presence of infinite Tuple on tuple page counts logical and needed.
It is so tiny problem, or no problem at all, that I'm surprised, that it triggered so much animosity. It should have been solved on talk page of the topic and it was attempted by my side. However, no compromise was reached there. Rbrane7 ( talk) 20:21, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
{{
Rfc}}
template at the top of this section. If you can write a properly formed Rfc that complies with
WP:RFC, you can start another Rfc in a new section below this one. (
edit conflict)
Mathglot (
talk)
21:46, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Define tuple in python 2409:40F2:C:832A:83B:77FF:FE05:6DAD ( talk) 05:06, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Tuple article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1Auto-archiving period: 366 days
![]() |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
Hello everyone.
I am writing to propose a new term for tuples that have a length of googol (10^100) elements. At present, there is no widely recognized name for such a tuple. I would like to suggest the term "Googuple" as a potential candidate.
While "tuple of size googol" or "googol-tuple" are commonly used terms for this concept, I believe that "Googuple" would be a more concise and memorable term. Moreover, it would help prevent confusion between the number googol and the tuple of googol length.
Although "Googuple" is not yet an established term in the mathematical or computing communities, I propose it as a clear and concise alternative to the current terms in use. I invite your feedback on whether "Googuple" has merit as a term for tuples of length googol. Jossy010 ( talk) 14:09, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
This section is unsourced. Even if it would be sourced it would not belong to this article, per WP:DICT. Although this could suffices to delete this section, these are not the main reason for deleting the section.
The article is about a mathematical concept called a "tuple". Therefore, for appearing in the section, a word must be commonly used to denote a mathematical tuple. This not the case here. Most of the names are not commonly used, and most of those that are commonly used are not used for refering to a mathematical tuple. For example, a quartet is not a tuple, but a musical group. Also, the words with the suffixe "uple" that are not created specifically for this article refer generally to multiples rather to tuples. The few words that are used for tuples, either appear already in the lead (singleton, ordered pair), or are those with the suffixe "plet" (triplet, quadruplet, etc). They are used for tuples in French, but I am not certain that they have exactly the same meaning in English. If they have, it is easy to add them in a single sentence in the lead. No need of a specific section.
So, this section is not worth for this article. It is also very confusing, as presenting as synonyms words that are far to be synonyms.
As all what precedes is based on common sense and Wikipedia policies and guidelines, restoring this section requires to be strongly motivated here. D.Lazard ( talk) 16:48, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
As consensus appears to be running against this section, and the IP has been blocked, I removed the section again. — David Eppstein ( talk) 18:54, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
I agree with D.Lazard's argument above. In addition that table significantly impaired the readability/visual appearance of the article, Flooding the screen directly after the lead with completely marginal information, the encyclopedic value of which seems rather dubious at best.-- Kmhkmh ( talk) 20:33, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
I prolonged definition of tuple from being function of natural number (as set) (former status) to function of ordinal number as set. I accordance with level 5 vital article status, I placed this small enhancement directly to the page. However, I triggered series of negative responses from particular mathematicians. The problem is that we can't reach consensus in such a clear case, in my view. Why infinite tuple concept doesn't belong to Tuple page? Of course, if we accept the infinite tuple concept in Tuple page, another question immediately occurs: why not define finite and infinite tuple directly in one definition, if it is simply possible and it means just change of one word, keeping all essentials unchanged and of the same meaning. Mu suggestion is to accept that tuple is function of ordinal number as set. It is simple and fully explaining the concept of tuple together with simple implication of count of elements of tuple and basic properties. Then we say finite tuple or infinite tuple or simply tuple if we don't rely or particular properties. Please, argue if you can at this place, to make us able to reach consensus. Rbrane7 ( talk) 14:48, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
I would like to ask comments with argumentation for or against infinite tuple concept, by which I call a presence of Infinite Tuple on Tuple page.
The problem was discussed between a couple of mathematicians with no argumentation against the concept other than missing external citations. I think there should rather be discussion about arguments in general instead of just resources. The argumentation for the concept is based on axioms of Set theory namely ZFC and mainly Axiom of choice.
The opponents of the concept already attempted to ban me and separate me from editing of English Wiki. I was unbanned then, but I don't see reasonable to follow aggressive bilateral disputation with undoing actions of each other. So, I'm asking third party experts form participation in dispute.
My opinion is, that infinite tuple is inherently here, regardless how we call it. Therefore, we should not try to find different term, but rather we should note it on the tuple page. Argumentation for can be most simply based on Axiom of choice of ZFC, which effectively defines infinite Cartesian product, which is quoted on its wiki page. If we have infinite Cartesian product, which is apparently true, then I believe, we should have defined also infinite Tuple. We define the tuple most simply as function of natural number (as set (mathematics)). Infinite tuple is then simply function of ordinal number (as set (mathematics)).
So, please, give me independent opinion to my conclusions and relevancy of noting infinite Tuple on tuple page.
I already asked my colleague from studies on Faculty of Mathematics and Physics, Charles University for an opinion. He said, that he intuitively understood Tuple as finite but the presence of infinite Tuple on tuple page counts logical and needed.
It is so tiny problem, or no problem at all, that I'm surprised, that it triggered so much animosity. It should have been solved on talk page of the topic and it was attempted by my side. However, no compromise was reached there. Rbrane7 ( talk) 20:21, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
{{
Rfc}}
template at the top of this section. If you can write a properly formed Rfc that complies with
WP:RFC, you can start another Rfc in a new section below this one. (
edit conflict)
Mathglot (
talk)
21:46, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Define tuple in python 2409:40F2:C:832A:83B:77FF:FE05:6DAD ( talk) 05:06, 13 February 2024 (UTC)