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The investigation section is a verbatim transcript of the Mayday TV show. It should be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.180.189.5 ( talk) 13:03, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
You can watch the section from which this is copied here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqOpLpYP3o4&feature=PlayList&p=AD754EAD89B12790&index=4&playnext=5&playnext_from=PL —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.180.189.5 ( talk) 13:05, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
Can someone translate the Italian law court sentence which was published on March 23, 2009?
+++++ La sentenza emessa il 23 marzo 2009 ha visto 6 condanne (il comandante Chafik Gharby e il pilota Ali Kebaier, entrambi condannati a 10 anni di reclusione, il direttore generale della Tuninter Moncef Zouari e il direttore tecnico Zoueir Chetouane, a 9 anni ciascuno, il responsabile del reparto di manutenzione Siala Zouehir, il meccanico Nebil Chaed e il responsabile della squadra manutenzioni Rhouma Bal Haj, tutti condannati a 8 anni ciascuno) e due assoluzioni (i capisquadra manutenzione Fouad Rouissi e Lofti Ben Jemia) [1] [2] [3]. ++++++
10 yr to both pilotes, 9 yr to the technical director and maintenance manager, 8 yr to the mechanic and maintenance team mgr...
Thanks,
Surf 79.31.11.124 ( talk) 15:37, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
I changed the words "starvation" (of fuel) to "exhaustion," because aviation requires and relies upon very precise nomenclature, both in accident/incident analysis and for operational safety.
When engine(s) stop operating, because something interrupts the flow of fuel to the engines, even though there is still usable fuel in the tanks (ice, water in the tanks or lines, faulty boost pump, inoperative cross-feed valves, failed fuel controllers, selection of the wrong fuel tank, etc.), then the proper causality term for that engine failure is "starvation." But, when the engines quit operating, because all of the usable fuel on board has been entirely consumed, then the proper causality term is "fuel exhaustion," not "fuel starvation."
The fact that the article in Wiki, which covers both of those terms, is entitled "Fuel Starvation," does not alter the universal ICAO definitions of those terms.
See the definition of those ICAO Aviation terms, in the TRANSPORT SAFETY INVESTIGATION REGULATIONS 2003 2003 No. 158 - REG 2.2, at this link:
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/num_reg/tsir20032003n158510/s2.2.html
Since this accident was the direct result of insufficient fuel being placed on board, to safely conduct the flight over the planned length and time, both engines quit operating in mid-flight, after that insufficient amount of usable fuel had been completely consumed. Thus, "fuel exhaustion" was the reason why both engines quit operating, and why that plane was then forced to ditch in the Sea.
It was not a case of "fuel starvation," as was the case when the British B777 crashed just short of the runway, at LHR last year. That B777 had usable fuel remaining in its tanks, but the engines failed to generate enough thrust to safely reach the runway, because something interfered with the normal flow of fuel to those engines.
It is important for Wikipedia to strive for the highest possible precision and accuracy, when it states the cause of any air accident. This ATR-72 accident was caused by fuel exhaustion, not by fuel starvation.
That is why I am changing the term "starvation" back to "exhaustion."
Thank you for your consideration. EditorASC ( talk) 09:35, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
For more info please alway check http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volo_Tuninter_1153 which is Wikipedia in Italian language.
Surf 79.24.55.8 ( talk) 10:11, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
http://www.ansv.it/it/detail_Relazioni.asp?ID=949 WhisperToMe ( talk) 05:38, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
This article concentrates too much on mistakes of the flight crew, and fails to mention role of Palermo ATC, which acted in completely incompetent fashion. The ATC couldn't even speak proper English!-- Mikoyan21 ( talk) 00:23, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
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The investigation section is a verbatim transcript of the Mayday TV show. It should be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.180.189.5 ( talk) 13:03, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
You can watch the section from which this is copied here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqOpLpYP3o4&feature=PlayList&p=AD754EAD89B12790&index=4&playnext=5&playnext_from=PL —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.180.189.5 ( talk) 13:05, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
Can someone translate the Italian law court sentence which was published on March 23, 2009?
+++++ La sentenza emessa il 23 marzo 2009 ha visto 6 condanne (il comandante Chafik Gharby e il pilota Ali Kebaier, entrambi condannati a 10 anni di reclusione, il direttore generale della Tuninter Moncef Zouari e il direttore tecnico Zoueir Chetouane, a 9 anni ciascuno, il responsabile del reparto di manutenzione Siala Zouehir, il meccanico Nebil Chaed e il responsabile della squadra manutenzioni Rhouma Bal Haj, tutti condannati a 8 anni ciascuno) e due assoluzioni (i capisquadra manutenzione Fouad Rouissi e Lofti Ben Jemia) [1] [2] [3]. ++++++
10 yr to both pilotes, 9 yr to the technical director and maintenance manager, 8 yr to the mechanic and maintenance team mgr...
Thanks,
Surf 79.31.11.124 ( talk) 15:37, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
I changed the words "starvation" (of fuel) to "exhaustion," because aviation requires and relies upon very precise nomenclature, both in accident/incident analysis and for operational safety.
When engine(s) stop operating, because something interrupts the flow of fuel to the engines, even though there is still usable fuel in the tanks (ice, water in the tanks or lines, faulty boost pump, inoperative cross-feed valves, failed fuel controllers, selection of the wrong fuel tank, etc.), then the proper causality term for that engine failure is "starvation." But, when the engines quit operating, because all of the usable fuel on board has been entirely consumed, then the proper causality term is "fuel exhaustion," not "fuel starvation."
The fact that the article in Wiki, which covers both of those terms, is entitled "Fuel Starvation," does not alter the universal ICAO definitions of those terms.
See the definition of those ICAO Aviation terms, in the TRANSPORT SAFETY INVESTIGATION REGULATIONS 2003 2003 No. 158 - REG 2.2, at this link:
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/num_reg/tsir20032003n158510/s2.2.html
Since this accident was the direct result of insufficient fuel being placed on board, to safely conduct the flight over the planned length and time, both engines quit operating in mid-flight, after that insufficient amount of usable fuel had been completely consumed. Thus, "fuel exhaustion" was the reason why both engines quit operating, and why that plane was then forced to ditch in the Sea.
It was not a case of "fuel starvation," as was the case when the British B777 crashed just short of the runway, at LHR last year. That B777 had usable fuel remaining in its tanks, but the engines failed to generate enough thrust to safely reach the runway, because something interfered with the normal flow of fuel to those engines.
It is important for Wikipedia to strive for the highest possible precision and accuracy, when it states the cause of any air accident. This ATR-72 accident was caused by fuel exhaustion, not by fuel starvation.
That is why I am changing the term "starvation" back to "exhaustion."
Thank you for your consideration. EditorASC ( talk) 09:35, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
For more info please alway check http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volo_Tuninter_1153 which is Wikipedia in Italian language.
Surf 79.24.55.8 ( talk) 10:11, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
http://www.ansv.it/it/detail_Relazioni.asp?ID=949 WhisperToMe ( talk) 05:38, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
This article concentrates too much on mistakes of the flight crew, and fails to mention role of Palermo ATC, which acted in completely incompetent fashion. The ATC couldn't even speak proper English!-- Mikoyan21 ( talk) 00:23, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Tuninter Flight 1153. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 00:09, 2 March 2016 (UTC)