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This article contains a translation of Massacre_de_Tulle from fr.wikipedia. |
We need to translate the French version to English.-- Gen. Bedford his Forest 00:23, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
In which category do fall the June 1944 Tulle killings of civilians & maquisards:
-- Frania W. ( talk) 14:22, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
Unfortunately, there was. The NSDAP were a legally constituted political party and that status allowed them to participate in German elections from 1920 to 1933. To suggest otherwise is absurd.
When is a massacre not a massacre? Clearly when it is Germans who are being massacred......." For G. Penaud, (German losses) amount to about 50 dead (including those trying to surrender?), sixty missing, probably taken prisoner, and between 23 and 37 wounded. The majority of the prisoners were probably shot hereafter...." Hmmm. So that's ok then. Move on. Nothing to see here. It's not a massacre if it's Germans who are shot, even if it's upto 60 of them.
Also, see the apparent confusion in that part of the article entitled "Battle of Tulle" when the German are shot down at close range.... but maybe they were waving a white flag.... of course not, they're Germans, they must have been carrying grenades instead, you know, those grenades that look like white flags. And the grenades exploded of course and caused all those terrible injuries. Like blowing off the German's genitals which all ended up in they're mouths. Remarkable. And causing those injuries which made it look like some of the them had been tied to cars or trucks and dragged around Tulle until they were skinned. Shocking what a grenade can do.
Now, to be serious. One-sided history serves no-one. If you can't, or won't, tell the whole truth about an event then, please, don't bother. Telling part-truths warps the historical accuracy of that event and, in the case of Tulle, dishonours the memory of those innocents who were murdered during the reprisals. So, don't do it. Ask somebody else to do it or whatever but don't you do it. 2A00:23C0:504:5800:4DE5:F2DD:32DB:CAA2 ( talk) 02:38, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
Isn't the "reason behind the 2nd Panzer Division's role in the massacres" simply that they were ordered to do so?
The division may have had a "heavy belief in the ideology of National Socialism", "battle experience on the Eastern Front", "saw themselves as an elite military unit", but these are all irrelevant. The fact that they had "already participated in engagements with the French Resistance" would be a reason why they would have been happy to kill guerillas. Being a military elite is certainly not a reason to commit war crimes! Nor are belief in National Socialism, or battle experience. Royalcourtier ( talk) 23:16, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
The Harvnb templates are broken.
For example, in the French article, if you go to the References section and find a hyperlinked Harvard style reference, such as Penaud 2005 or Fouché 2001 and click them, they will refer to the Bibliography items
respectively.
If you try the same thing in the References section of the English article, you will also find (currently, as Footnotes [3] and [4]) the same two references. In the English article, Penaud is linked, Fouché is not. In the case of Penaud, and all other Harvard references which are linked, clicking the link does not go to the corresponding Bibliography item, as it should, and as it does in the French article. This may be a result of misrendering of Harvnb template parameters from the original French article. Mathglot ( talk) 10:08, 4 July 2015 (UTC) Edited by Mathglot ( talk) 10:13, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
Added new section Memorials and commemorations based on the newly added section Mémoire et commémorations in the French article.
This is not a straight translation, but just an abbreviated summary. The section in the French article is vast overkill--it goes into great detail about what happened at each of these memorials or commemorations, which I find of questionable notability, even if it is verifiable (the French article quotes sources) and the extended quotations about who said what at these long-ago memorials is totally useless. I find it questionable whether there is anything notable about the section at all; but given that this is a translation of the French article, I thought we could start with an abbreviated section, and if it's not notable, we can just get rid of it. I didn't bother bringing over any of the references, which are available in the French version, in case the whole thing just got deleted, so I also stuck a Refimprove section banner template over it. If we decide to keep the section in some form, (some of) the references should be ported over from the French article, and the banner removed. Mathglot ( talk) 07:01, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
I deleted numerous repeated xrefs, actions that are in accordance with MoS, but these have been twice reverted by User: Beyond My Ken on the basis that "These are not improvements, apparently POV" and "Your edits show a very definite POV". Compliance with MoS by removing multiple repeated xrefs to Milice, 2nd SS Panzer Division etc is not POV. Comments please. Mztourist ( talk) 07:35, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
The Tulle Massacre was not part of the Holocaust, so the Holocaust infobox/link shouldn't be there, so why have you reinstated it User:Beyond My Ken? Mztourist ( talk) 08:16, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
I have deleted the Holocaust sidebar from this page because it was an anti-partisan massacre conducted by the 2nd SS Panzer Division, not a massacre of Jews and so the Holocaust sidebar is not relevant. User:Beyond My Ken has reverted this change, but has not explained why the Holocaust sidebar should be retained, instead saying that I need to establish consensus for this change. I have tried to discuss this with Beyond My Ken (see discussion immediately above) but have made no progress. Comments please, should the sidebar be deleted or retained?. Mztourist ( talk) 15:43, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Tulle massacre article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on June 9, 2019, June 9, 2021, and June 9, 2024. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article contains a translation of Massacre_de_Tulle from fr.wikipedia. |
We need to translate the French version to English.-- Gen. Bedford his Forest 00:23, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
In which category do fall the June 1944 Tulle killings of civilians & maquisards:
-- Frania W. ( talk) 14:22, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
Unfortunately, there was. The NSDAP were a legally constituted political party and that status allowed them to participate in German elections from 1920 to 1933. To suggest otherwise is absurd.
When is a massacre not a massacre? Clearly when it is Germans who are being massacred......." For G. Penaud, (German losses) amount to about 50 dead (including those trying to surrender?), sixty missing, probably taken prisoner, and between 23 and 37 wounded. The majority of the prisoners were probably shot hereafter...." Hmmm. So that's ok then. Move on. Nothing to see here. It's not a massacre if it's Germans who are shot, even if it's upto 60 of them.
Also, see the apparent confusion in that part of the article entitled "Battle of Tulle" when the German are shot down at close range.... but maybe they were waving a white flag.... of course not, they're Germans, they must have been carrying grenades instead, you know, those grenades that look like white flags. And the grenades exploded of course and caused all those terrible injuries. Like blowing off the German's genitals which all ended up in they're mouths. Remarkable. And causing those injuries which made it look like some of the them had been tied to cars or trucks and dragged around Tulle until they were skinned. Shocking what a grenade can do.
Now, to be serious. One-sided history serves no-one. If you can't, or won't, tell the whole truth about an event then, please, don't bother. Telling part-truths warps the historical accuracy of that event and, in the case of Tulle, dishonours the memory of those innocents who were murdered during the reprisals. So, don't do it. Ask somebody else to do it or whatever but don't you do it. 2A00:23C0:504:5800:4DE5:F2DD:32DB:CAA2 ( talk) 02:38, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
Isn't the "reason behind the 2nd Panzer Division's role in the massacres" simply that they were ordered to do so?
The division may have had a "heavy belief in the ideology of National Socialism", "battle experience on the Eastern Front", "saw themselves as an elite military unit", but these are all irrelevant. The fact that they had "already participated in engagements with the French Resistance" would be a reason why they would have been happy to kill guerillas. Being a military elite is certainly not a reason to commit war crimes! Nor are belief in National Socialism, or battle experience. Royalcourtier ( talk) 23:16, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
The Harvnb templates are broken.
For example, in the French article, if you go to the References section and find a hyperlinked Harvard style reference, such as Penaud 2005 or Fouché 2001 and click them, they will refer to the Bibliography items
respectively.
If you try the same thing in the References section of the English article, you will also find (currently, as Footnotes [3] and [4]) the same two references. In the English article, Penaud is linked, Fouché is not. In the case of Penaud, and all other Harvard references which are linked, clicking the link does not go to the corresponding Bibliography item, as it should, and as it does in the French article. This may be a result of misrendering of Harvnb template parameters from the original French article. Mathglot ( talk) 10:08, 4 July 2015 (UTC) Edited by Mathglot ( talk) 10:13, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
Added new section Memorials and commemorations based on the newly added section Mémoire et commémorations in the French article.
This is not a straight translation, but just an abbreviated summary. The section in the French article is vast overkill--it goes into great detail about what happened at each of these memorials or commemorations, which I find of questionable notability, even if it is verifiable (the French article quotes sources) and the extended quotations about who said what at these long-ago memorials is totally useless. I find it questionable whether there is anything notable about the section at all; but given that this is a translation of the French article, I thought we could start with an abbreviated section, and if it's not notable, we can just get rid of it. I didn't bother bringing over any of the references, which are available in the French version, in case the whole thing just got deleted, so I also stuck a Refimprove section banner template over it. If we decide to keep the section in some form, (some of) the references should be ported over from the French article, and the banner removed. Mathglot ( talk) 07:01, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
I deleted numerous repeated xrefs, actions that are in accordance with MoS, but these have been twice reverted by User: Beyond My Ken on the basis that "These are not improvements, apparently POV" and "Your edits show a very definite POV". Compliance with MoS by removing multiple repeated xrefs to Milice, 2nd SS Panzer Division etc is not POV. Comments please. Mztourist ( talk) 07:35, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
The Tulle Massacre was not part of the Holocaust, so the Holocaust infobox/link shouldn't be there, so why have you reinstated it User:Beyond My Ken? Mztourist ( talk) 08:16, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
I have deleted the Holocaust sidebar from this page because it was an anti-partisan massacre conducted by the 2nd SS Panzer Division, not a massacre of Jews and so the Holocaust sidebar is not relevant. User:Beyond My Ken has reverted this change, but has not explained why the Holocaust sidebar should be retained, instead saying that I need to establish consensus for this change. I have tried to discuss this with Beyond My Ken (see discussion immediately above) but have made no progress. Comments please, should the sidebar be deleted or retained?. Mztourist ( talk) 15:43, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Tulle massacre. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.dasreich.ca/oradour.htmlWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 05:53, 17 January 2018 (UTC)