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The last part of the "Crisis" section states that the Scottish settlers brought into the private plantations of Antrim and Down "replaced the Irish residents". My understanding was that Irish residents were only replaced in the official plantations of western and central Ulster. This part has no citation. 80.5.23.215 ( talk) 13:49, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks to Jdorney for this article and the others on Tudor Ireland - all accurate, concise and balanced. My 4 minor rewrites of this one don't add up to a major rewrite. Some may take issue with my deletion of the term Roman Catholic and its replacement with the simple Catholic: in my view, the term Roman Catholic is an oxymoron - open to debate - but its use in this historical context is undeniably incorrect. Anyone wanting to follow this up, please check out the discussion page on the unfortunately entitled Roman Catholic Church article.-- shtove 20:15, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
If anybody would know the answer it's you lot. Do any of you know of the remains of any of the original Tudor architecture in Ireland, especially Dublin? Amid all the "tudor style" houses (one of which I was brought up in long, long before I knew what Tudor meant), is there any fine example of such architecture (Like the Powerscourt Townhouse or Newman House would be considered an example of Georgian architecture)? If there is enough to do an article on, I'd be interested in getting into it. El Gringo 20:24, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Why is this entitled the "Tudor reconquest"? If anything, it should be the "Tudor conquest", as the Tudors had never previously conquered Ireland and therefore there is no "re" necessary. Furthermore, the English had never conquered Ireland, only parts of it, so this article could safely be entitled the "English conquest of Ireland" because it wasn't until 1603 that the English controlled all of Ireland for the first time. 86.44.17.226 ( talk) 23:30, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
You are correct. In academia, on both islands, it is far more often called the Tudor conquest, not re-conquest of Ireland. I have corrected the title and will now begin to correct those articles linking here with the wrong title. What has happened, it would appear, is that it became widespread in Wikipedia early and most editors have since assumed re-conquest to be correct. DinDraithou ( talk) 21:52, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Further to @Shtove's query, I feel there is an issue in using the term "Gaelic Ireland" to refer to one side of the conflict. It causes a number issues: 1.) Makes it appear that the Gaelic people of Ireland at this point were a monolith, entirely unified behind one side of the conflict and opposed to the Tudor monarchy. Of course this is not true, while a great many were opposed to Tudor rule, many other objectively Gaelic lords fought on the side of the Tudors in both this conflict and the Nine Years War. When I mention this I specifically refer to men like Donogh O'Brien Earl of Thomond, Sir Cathaoir Ó Dochartaigh (known after as Queen's O'Doherty) and Maelmora O'Reilly son of Sir John O'Reilly, ruler of East Breifne among others. 2.) Because we've mentioned that terminology, we end up linking to other wiki pages not directly relevant to the subject matter at hand, namely Gaelic Ireland and Gaels. These pages tell us nothing of who was fighting whom. Looking forward to the discussion. Alssa1 ( talk) 11:20, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
In the 'Situation before the Tudors' section, second paragraph, this sentence is hard to understand: 'Ireland was not formally a realm, but rather a lordship; the title was assumed by the English monarch upon coronation.' What title does this refer to and how does it relate to the status of Ireland conferred by the English that the first half of the sentence discusses? Breatheforpeace ( talk) 05:26, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Tudor conquest of Ireland article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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The last part of the "Crisis" section states that the Scottish settlers brought into the private plantations of Antrim and Down "replaced the Irish residents". My understanding was that Irish residents were only replaced in the official plantations of western and central Ulster. This part has no citation. 80.5.23.215 ( talk) 13:49, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks to Jdorney for this article and the others on Tudor Ireland - all accurate, concise and balanced. My 4 minor rewrites of this one don't add up to a major rewrite. Some may take issue with my deletion of the term Roman Catholic and its replacement with the simple Catholic: in my view, the term Roman Catholic is an oxymoron - open to debate - but its use in this historical context is undeniably incorrect. Anyone wanting to follow this up, please check out the discussion page on the unfortunately entitled Roman Catholic Church article.-- shtove 20:15, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
If anybody would know the answer it's you lot. Do any of you know of the remains of any of the original Tudor architecture in Ireland, especially Dublin? Amid all the "tudor style" houses (one of which I was brought up in long, long before I knew what Tudor meant), is there any fine example of such architecture (Like the Powerscourt Townhouse or Newman House would be considered an example of Georgian architecture)? If there is enough to do an article on, I'd be interested in getting into it. El Gringo 20:24, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Why is this entitled the "Tudor reconquest"? If anything, it should be the "Tudor conquest", as the Tudors had never previously conquered Ireland and therefore there is no "re" necessary. Furthermore, the English had never conquered Ireland, only parts of it, so this article could safely be entitled the "English conquest of Ireland" because it wasn't until 1603 that the English controlled all of Ireland for the first time. 86.44.17.226 ( talk) 23:30, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
You are correct. In academia, on both islands, it is far more often called the Tudor conquest, not re-conquest of Ireland. I have corrected the title and will now begin to correct those articles linking here with the wrong title. What has happened, it would appear, is that it became widespread in Wikipedia early and most editors have since assumed re-conquest to be correct. DinDraithou ( talk) 21:52, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Further to @Shtove's query, I feel there is an issue in using the term "Gaelic Ireland" to refer to one side of the conflict. It causes a number issues: 1.) Makes it appear that the Gaelic people of Ireland at this point were a monolith, entirely unified behind one side of the conflict and opposed to the Tudor monarchy. Of course this is not true, while a great many were opposed to Tudor rule, many other objectively Gaelic lords fought on the side of the Tudors in both this conflict and the Nine Years War. When I mention this I specifically refer to men like Donogh O'Brien Earl of Thomond, Sir Cathaoir Ó Dochartaigh (known after as Queen's O'Doherty) and Maelmora O'Reilly son of Sir John O'Reilly, ruler of East Breifne among others. 2.) Because we've mentioned that terminology, we end up linking to other wiki pages not directly relevant to the subject matter at hand, namely Gaelic Ireland and Gaels. These pages tell us nothing of who was fighting whom. Looking forward to the discussion. Alssa1 ( talk) 11:20, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
In the 'Situation before the Tudors' section, second paragraph, this sentence is hard to understand: 'Ireland was not formally a realm, but rather a lordship; the title was assumed by the English monarch upon coronation.' What title does this refer to and how does it relate to the status of Ireland conferred by the English that the first half of the sentence discusses? Breatheforpeace ( talk) 05:26, 4 November 2023 (UTC)