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Huh? I gather that may originally have been "The name Chilcotin is derived from the Chilcotin name for themselves: Chilcotin" with the rider that Tŝinlhqot’in is only ONE possible spelling according to different spellings systems; Tsilhqut’in is simply another, as is Tsilhqot’in which is the usual transliteration of this name in English, i.e. when it's not "Chilcotin". The pretentiousness of the orthographic game played by native-language politicos and linguists gets tiresome when so many near-misses are presented as if "correct", while an anglicization like "Chilcotin" is for some reason considered incorrect....even though it's pronounced darned-near the same way. My main beef with the sentence quoted above is it's a non-sequitur; there's such marginal difference between Tsilhqut'in and Tsinhlhqot'in that it makes the sentence rather pointless; especially when the meaning "people of the ochre-coloured earth" is absent. Add in the reality that "the Chilcotin name" itself is a phrase meaning "the Chilcotin language word for"; you'd think the Tsilhqot'in name for the language would be used in such a p.c.-environment. The issue also remains here of recent edits with the Tsilhqut'in spelling, vs. the usual Tsilhqot'in. Skookum1 00:39, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
And just a quick note - that "Tsilhqut’in" spelling brings to mind the hokey/cowboy way to say Chilcotin - ChilCOOtin, or ChilliCOOTin. Who knows, it might even be more accurate. Skookum1 23:32, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved. Nathan Johnson ( talk) 19:21, 25 May 2013 (UTC) Chilcotin people → Tsilhqot'in – Moving this to its current title in June 2011 was not only controversial, and should have been a proper RM rather than a speedy move (by User:Kwamikagami as was the case. He cited COMMONNAME and ENGLISH as the rationale, but the latter does not apply, as CANENGL applies (whatever the proper wiki-shorthand for "using Canadian English in Canadian articles", and "Tsilhqot'in" is now the standard in Canadian English and is so-used by the media and both local and national media to refer to these people; it's also obviously used on most of the cites given, including the Tsilhqot'in National Government's webpage at http://www.tsilhqotin.ca. It doesn't matter if the ethnolinguistic community outside of Canada see "Chilcotin" as the most common name; it's not in Canada, and is considered by the people themselves "a white man's usage".....they also use it to distinguish themselves from the other uses of Chilcotin. If this name change stands - and it never should have been allowed IMO - then the complications of renaming Category:Tsilhqot'in will follow, as they have for what is now Category:Squamish; perhaps the templates have also been affeced, which means TfDs...all because someone pulled a speedy without considering the consequences, and by mis-citing COMMONNAME and ENGLISH....ever heard of MOSFOLLOW? This is not the only case of such ill-advised and arbitrary imposition of "outside language" on Canadian topics, particularly on FN/indigenous topics. Indigenous endonyms are now common fare in Canadian English and are, in fact, the expected standard. Oh, for the sake of argument, the google stats for "Tshilhqot'in" are phttps://www.google.co.th/search?q=tsilhqot'in&aq=f&oq=tsilhqot'in&aqs=chrome.0.57j0l3.4644&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 42,700] - for "Chilcotin people" they're only 6,740. Skookum1 ( talk) 12:39, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
Tsilhqot'in /tsɪlˈkoːtɪn/
▶ noun
1. a member of an Athapaskan people inhabiting the basin of the Chilcotin River valley, between the Coast Mountains and the Fraser River in BC.
2. the Athapaskan language of this people.
▶ adjective of or relating to this people or their culture or language.
Origin: Tsilhqot'in, = ‘ochre river people’, in reference to red and yellow mineral substances used for dyes.
From that point on she lists park names that exist either in both languages (whichever language it is), legally and formally, and some that have only native names; it's a set of HTML boxes, most reflected already in Category:Provincial parks of British Columbias many titles. If anyone needs "proof" of this email or thinks I fictionalized it, "email this user" and I will gladly forward it. Skookum1 ( talk) 06:49, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
This was placed in the RM box, re-adding it here, IP user: "
I would suggest that the Tl’etinqox Nation is not Alexis Creek, it is Anaham. The Tsi Del Del First Nation was forced from Alexis Creek to Redstone in the early 1900's, due to the farmland around Alexis Creek being so good and that is why Tsi Del Del is sometimes known as Alexis Creek. Tl’etinqox have always lived many km away from Alexis Creek, down the river. Also, Tatla Lake is another (white) community in the Chilcotin. The surrounding area of Tatla Lake probably has a larger (white) population than Alexis Creek now." I'll try and fix that part, or another user also more familiar with the area will ( User:Tatlayoko, who I'll notify just now. Skookum1 ( talk) 06:09, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
the -teen ending is very wrong (/tʃɪlˈkoʊtiːn/ chil-koh-teen; maybe in the Tsilhqot'in language it's "teen" as with some other Athapaskan peoples, but in real-world usage in BC it's "-tin" as in the metal; or glottal-stop-n as often in Canada where we "swallow" the /t/ to a glottal stop as in Edmon7n. I don't know IPA enough to fix that; surprised I never noticed it before; the First Peoples of BC citation for the name has the Tsilhqot'in language pronunciation, not how it's used in English. I'll change the basic one, not sure what IPA character to replace [i:] with. Who added that anyways?` Skookum1 ( talk) 06:05, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Tsilhqotʼin/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Needs thorough expansion/revision -- Skookum1 (6 May 06) |
Substituted at 01:16, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Huh? I gather that may originally have been "The name Chilcotin is derived from the Chilcotin name for themselves: Chilcotin" with the rider that Tŝinlhqot’in is only ONE possible spelling according to different spellings systems; Tsilhqut’in is simply another, as is Tsilhqot’in which is the usual transliteration of this name in English, i.e. when it's not "Chilcotin". The pretentiousness of the orthographic game played by native-language politicos and linguists gets tiresome when so many near-misses are presented as if "correct", while an anglicization like "Chilcotin" is for some reason considered incorrect....even though it's pronounced darned-near the same way. My main beef with the sentence quoted above is it's a non-sequitur; there's such marginal difference between Tsilhqut'in and Tsinhlhqot'in that it makes the sentence rather pointless; especially when the meaning "people of the ochre-coloured earth" is absent. Add in the reality that "the Chilcotin name" itself is a phrase meaning "the Chilcotin language word for"; you'd think the Tsilhqot'in name for the language would be used in such a p.c.-environment. The issue also remains here of recent edits with the Tsilhqut'in spelling, vs. the usual Tsilhqot'in. Skookum1 00:39, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
And just a quick note - that "Tsilhqut’in" spelling brings to mind the hokey/cowboy way to say Chilcotin - ChilCOOtin, or ChilliCOOTin. Who knows, it might even be more accurate. Skookum1 23:32, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved. Nathan Johnson ( talk) 19:21, 25 May 2013 (UTC) Chilcotin people → Tsilhqot'in – Moving this to its current title in June 2011 was not only controversial, and should have been a proper RM rather than a speedy move (by User:Kwamikagami as was the case. He cited COMMONNAME and ENGLISH as the rationale, but the latter does not apply, as CANENGL applies (whatever the proper wiki-shorthand for "using Canadian English in Canadian articles", and "Tsilhqot'in" is now the standard in Canadian English and is so-used by the media and both local and national media to refer to these people; it's also obviously used on most of the cites given, including the Tsilhqot'in National Government's webpage at http://www.tsilhqotin.ca. It doesn't matter if the ethnolinguistic community outside of Canada see "Chilcotin" as the most common name; it's not in Canada, and is considered by the people themselves "a white man's usage".....they also use it to distinguish themselves from the other uses of Chilcotin. If this name change stands - and it never should have been allowed IMO - then the complications of renaming Category:Tsilhqot'in will follow, as they have for what is now Category:Squamish; perhaps the templates have also been affeced, which means TfDs...all because someone pulled a speedy without considering the consequences, and by mis-citing COMMONNAME and ENGLISH....ever heard of MOSFOLLOW? This is not the only case of such ill-advised and arbitrary imposition of "outside language" on Canadian topics, particularly on FN/indigenous topics. Indigenous endonyms are now common fare in Canadian English and are, in fact, the expected standard. Oh, for the sake of argument, the google stats for "Tshilhqot'in" are phttps://www.google.co.th/search?q=tsilhqot'in&aq=f&oq=tsilhqot'in&aqs=chrome.0.57j0l3.4644&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 42,700] - for "Chilcotin people" they're only 6,740. Skookum1 ( talk) 12:39, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
Tsilhqot'in /tsɪlˈkoːtɪn/
▶ noun
1. a member of an Athapaskan people inhabiting the basin of the Chilcotin River valley, between the Coast Mountains and the Fraser River in BC.
2. the Athapaskan language of this people.
▶ adjective of or relating to this people or their culture or language.
Origin: Tsilhqot'in, = ‘ochre river people’, in reference to red and yellow mineral substances used for dyes.
From that point on she lists park names that exist either in both languages (whichever language it is), legally and formally, and some that have only native names; it's a set of HTML boxes, most reflected already in Category:Provincial parks of British Columbias many titles. If anyone needs "proof" of this email or thinks I fictionalized it, "email this user" and I will gladly forward it. Skookum1 ( talk) 06:49, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
This was placed in the RM box, re-adding it here, IP user: "
I would suggest that the Tl’etinqox Nation is not Alexis Creek, it is Anaham. The Tsi Del Del First Nation was forced from Alexis Creek to Redstone in the early 1900's, due to the farmland around Alexis Creek being so good and that is why Tsi Del Del is sometimes known as Alexis Creek. Tl’etinqox have always lived many km away from Alexis Creek, down the river. Also, Tatla Lake is another (white) community in the Chilcotin. The surrounding area of Tatla Lake probably has a larger (white) population than Alexis Creek now." I'll try and fix that part, or another user also more familiar with the area will ( User:Tatlayoko, who I'll notify just now. Skookum1 ( talk) 06:09, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
the -teen ending is very wrong (/tʃɪlˈkoʊtiːn/ chil-koh-teen; maybe in the Tsilhqot'in language it's "teen" as with some other Athapaskan peoples, but in real-world usage in BC it's "-tin" as in the metal; or glottal-stop-n as often in Canada where we "swallow" the /t/ to a glottal stop as in Edmon7n. I don't know IPA enough to fix that; surprised I never noticed it before; the First Peoples of BC citation for the name has the Tsilhqot'in language pronunciation, not how it's used in English. I'll change the basic one, not sure what IPA character to replace [i:] with. Who added that anyways?` Skookum1 ( talk) 06:05, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Tsilhqotʼin/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Needs thorough expansion/revision -- Skookum1 (6 May 06) |
Substituted at 01:16, 22 May 2016 (UTC)