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Certainly Smith's NCAA suspension is a pertinent fact about his NCAA career. It is not "vandalism". Reverting edits along that line is an abuse of the vandalism tag.
According to the Ohio State Buckeye's website, Troy Smith's "hometown" is Cleveland, Ohio. Where is the source of his "birthplace" in Cincinnati, Ohio? Specter01010 07:52, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
While it may be true that the scouts have rated him as too small to be a top pick, and while he very likely will fall past the first round in the 2007 draft, the aim of this article is to provide a biographical overview and perhaps a statistical report on Troy Smith, not to post opinions of the Mel Kipers of the world. Leave that stuff for ESPN, fan blogs, and online bulletin board communities. Ryecatcher773 01:32, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Troy Smith measured 6'0" and 222 lbs. at the Senior Bowl this week. Due to the speculation as to his height and overall size, I think it would be important to update these statistics to reflect his true accurate measurements. http://www.middletownjournal.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/college/osu/2007/01/23/ddn012307senior.html
I can appreciate what you are saying, however, besides that there are plenty of ball players who may or may not be listed accurately in their respective college media guide, there is still no guarantee that the NFL team which drafts those athletes will print the info accurately either. In fact, just a few weeks ago on a Chicago sports-radio show, former Bear "Mongo" Steve McMichael remarked on how much fudging on heights and weights in media guides has been a common practice (they were talking about Brian Urlacher's entry from a couple years back as an example). For whatever reason, it happens. The only real reason anyone is making noise about the case with Troy Smith is because everyone keeps talking about how his stature will affect his ability in the NFL. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. Derek Anderson is listed at 6'6 in the Browns media guide, and he threw the heck out of the ball at Oregon State, but that hasn't (so far) made him as successful a passer in the NFL as he was in college. Whatever the case, until Smith's contract becomes the property of a pro team, his height ought to remain what the OSU media guide says it is. And, incidentally, I disagree with you wholeheartedly on your last sentence: the fact that the source is cited is exactly why the article's credibility does NOT suffer. Wikipeidia is not a source of authority -- it relies on sources... and like I pointed out, Sports Illustrated, ESPN, and Yahoo! Sports (to name a few) all list Troy Smith's size as it appears in the media guide. Ryecatcher773 06:30, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=11150&draftyear=2007&action=login&appRedirect=http%3A%2F%2Finsider.espn.go.com%2Fnfldraft%2Fdraft%2Ftracker%2Fplayer%3Fid%3D11150%26draftyear%3D2007 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.149.100.21 ( talk) 17:52, 26 January 2007 (UTC).
Ryecatcher773 19:41, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Well, if you aren't trying to offend, then watch your tone. My interests are completely a matter of principal. Until he is drafted, and another media guide lists his height as different, then the Ohio State guide is the official source. As I stated above, there is no guarantee that he will be listed as what the combine, or Senior Bowl reports list him as being in an NFL team media guide. Media guides are sources, and there is no question that they are hardly immutable truths. But they are cited, copyrighted sources, and so we follow what they say. I, actually, don't personally know how tall Troy Smith, and unless you have measured him yourself, I'd say you know as much as I do about his actual height. Height can vary by time of day due to muscle and skeletal elongation that takes place over the course of the day -- ask a doctor on that one if you don't believe me. People slouch. Media guides lie. Who knows. I am 6'2 barefoot, but I don't really notice that my cousin, who is 6'1 is actually shorter than me, nor do I carry around a tape measure. When Troy Smith is drafted, and when (insert NFL team name here) publishes their media guide for the 2007-08 season -- provided he makes the cut -- then I will change it. Although I live in Chicago now, I too am from Cleveland, and I too wish to see him do well in the NFL -- but neither of those things has a thing to do with it. Principal is principal, and I'm not going to give ground to a fellow Buckeye anymore than I would to someone from Michigan or Florida, because it's not about that. You say you want accuracy? Well, the article is accurate, since I am citing the copyrighted source, which by the way is the same source ESPN (not Mel Kiper's offshoot on the ESPN website, but ESPN's NCAA Football portion of the website), CBS Sportsline, Yahoo! Sports, and most importantly, the official Ohio State University Athletics website use. Ryecatcher773 00:16, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
This page seems really biased and makes alot of statements that seem grounded in the author's opinion rather than in fact, such as refering to the buckeyes as "creampuffs", as one of many examples.
This section: "However in the final game of his college career, his stats were terrible to say the least for a Heisman winner. He threw for only 35 yards and rushed for -29 in a 41-14 loss to the Florida Gators. After this game, Troy was ridiculed for being overrated, and that he couldn't stand a chance against better quarterbacks like Brady Quinn in the NFL."
This has zero relevance to him winning the Heisman Trophy. I recall there was an article about the "Heisman Jinx," which could possibly be mentioned, as other Heisman winners have had bad bowl games after winning the award; but the above statement makes no mention of that. Furthermore, where are the citations for these claims? As most Heisman winners played poorly in their bowl games, the statement "his stats were terrible for a Heisman winner" holds no water. I've heard a lot about that game, but I've NEVER heard any mention of terrible stats regarding Heisman winners, it's always the "Heisman Jinx." So, I'm curious, where are the sources? If none are found, I will omit the aforementioned quotation in question. GregTheVirus 01:00, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Pro Career section contains the following, "That's going to be a fun challenge for Troy, because now he's been around enough," Billick said. "The focus and attention that he brings to [preparing] is heightened."[15]
However the source article states, "A fun challenge for Troy," Billick said. "He has to be ready. This could be real. The focus and attention he has to bring to it is heightened." http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/11/13/ravens.mcnair.ap/index.html
The article takes what is needed to be done and presents it as if it is currently being done. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.173.219.204 ( talk) 01:39, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
I was wondering if anyone could update Troy's pro stats? Burner0718 ( talk) 04:23, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Never mind, I got it. :-) Burner0718 ( talk) 05:24, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
They might have it on ESPN.com. You could just copy and paste from there. RC-0722 ( talk) 05:34, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
As was done with the {{ Heisman Trophy}} template, I am changing the winner to say that no one is the 2005 winner, and that Troy Smith is the 2006 winner. The same is also being done for the Matt Leinart article. This is the source. Please do not revert it unless discussed here. See also the List of Heisman Trophy winners talk page for more information. -- AEMoreira042281 ( talk) 02:23, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
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With
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Discospinster [filled] in 3 bare reference(s) with reFill 2
. Of those, the 'obviously' broken citation was
this one because it is showing two red error messages (it was this one that caught my attention because this article was listed in
Category:CS1 errors: unsupported parameter and
Category:CS1 errors: archive-url).
Looking at the diff it is also noticeable that an external link used as a reference was marked with a {{
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Because of these obvious errors,
I reverted with the edit summary: tool makes junk citations; please preview and fix before saving;
. Editor Discospinster
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While these errors are largely the fault of WP:REFILL, editors who use the tool are responsible for the edits that it suggests. When using any tool, and especially when using reFill, please preview and fix broken citations before saving the article. It is discourteous to expect other editors to clean up a mess that should have been cleaned up by the tool-driver.
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Certainly Smith's NCAA suspension is a pertinent fact about his NCAA career. It is not "vandalism". Reverting edits along that line is an abuse of the vandalism tag.
According to the Ohio State Buckeye's website, Troy Smith's "hometown" is Cleveland, Ohio. Where is the source of his "birthplace" in Cincinnati, Ohio? Specter01010 07:52, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
While it may be true that the scouts have rated him as too small to be a top pick, and while he very likely will fall past the first round in the 2007 draft, the aim of this article is to provide a biographical overview and perhaps a statistical report on Troy Smith, not to post opinions of the Mel Kipers of the world. Leave that stuff for ESPN, fan blogs, and online bulletin board communities. Ryecatcher773 01:32, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Troy Smith measured 6'0" and 222 lbs. at the Senior Bowl this week. Due to the speculation as to his height and overall size, I think it would be important to update these statistics to reflect his true accurate measurements. http://www.middletownjournal.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/college/osu/2007/01/23/ddn012307senior.html
I can appreciate what you are saying, however, besides that there are plenty of ball players who may or may not be listed accurately in their respective college media guide, there is still no guarantee that the NFL team which drafts those athletes will print the info accurately either. In fact, just a few weeks ago on a Chicago sports-radio show, former Bear "Mongo" Steve McMichael remarked on how much fudging on heights and weights in media guides has been a common practice (they were talking about Brian Urlacher's entry from a couple years back as an example). For whatever reason, it happens. The only real reason anyone is making noise about the case with Troy Smith is because everyone keeps talking about how his stature will affect his ability in the NFL. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. Derek Anderson is listed at 6'6 in the Browns media guide, and he threw the heck out of the ball at Oregon State, but that hasn't (so far) made him as successful a passer in the NFL as he was in college. Whatever the case, until Smith's contract becomes the property of a pro team, his height ought to remain what the OSU media guide says it is. And, incidentally, I disagree with you wholeheartedly on your last sentence: the fact that the source is cited is exactly why the article's credibility does NOT suffer. Wikipeidia is not a source of authority -- it relies on sources... and like I pointed out, Sports Illustrated, ESPN, and Yahoo! Sports (to name a few) all list Troy Smith's size as it appears in the media guide. Ryecatcher773 06:30, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=11150&draftyear=2007&action=login&appRedirect=http%3A%2F%2Finsider.espn.go.com%2Fnfldraft%2Fdraft%2Ftracker%2Fplayer%3Fid%3D11150%26draftyear%3D2007 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.149.100.21 ( talk) 17:52, 26 January 2007 (UTC).
Ryecatcher773 19:41, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Well, if you aren't trying to offend, then watch your tone. My interests are completely a matter of principal. Until he is drafted, and another media guide lists his height as different, then the Ohio State guide is the official source. As I stated above, there is no guarantee that he will be listed as what the combine, or Senior Bowl reports list him as being in an NFL team media guide. Media guides are sources, and there is no question that they are hardly immutable truths. But they are cited, copyrighted sources, and so we follow what they say. I, actually, don't personally know how tall Troy Smith, and unless you have measured him yourself, I'd say you know as much as I do about his actual height. Height can vary by time of day due to muscle and skeletal elongation that takes place over the course of the day -- ask a doctor on that one if you don't believe me. People slouch. Media guides lie. Who knows. I am 6'2 barefoot, but I don't really notice that my cousin, who is 6'1 is actually shorter than me, nor do I carry around a tape measure. When Troy Smith is drafted, and when (insert NFL team name here) publishes their media guide for the 2007-08 season -- provided he makes the cut -- then I will change it. Although I live in Chicago now, I too am from Cleveland, and I too wish to see him do well in the NFL -- but neither of those things has a thing to do with it. Principal is principal, and I'm not going to give ground to a fellow Buckeye anymore than I would to someone from Michigan or Florida, because it's not about that. You say you want accuracy? Well, the article is accurate, since I am citing the copyrighted source, which by the way is the same source ESPN (not Mel Kiper's offshoot on the ESPN website, but ESPN's NCAA Football portion of the website), CBS Sportsline, Yahoo! Sports, and most importantly, the official Ohio State University Athletics website use. Ryecatcher773 00:16, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
This page seems really biased and makes alot of statements that seem grounded in the author's opinion rather than in fact, such as refering to the buckeyes as "creampuffs", as one of many examples.
This section: "However in the final game of his college career, his stats were terrible to say the least for a Heisman winner. He threw for only 35 yards and rushed for -29 in a 41-14 loss to the Florida Gators. After this game, Troy was ridiculed for being overrated, and that he couldn't stand a chance against better quarterbacks like Brady Quinn in the NFL."
This has zero relevance to him winning the Heisman Trophy. I recall there was an article about the "Heisman Jinx," which could possibly be mentioned, as other Heisman winners have had bad bowl games after winning the award; but the above statement makes no mention of that. Furthermore, where are the citations for these claims? As most Heisman winners played poorly in their bowl games, the statement "his stats were terrible for a Heisman winner" holds no water. I've heard a lot about that game, but I've NEVER heard any mention of terrible stats regarding Heisman winners, it's always the "Heisman Jinx." So, I'm curious, where are the sources? If none are found, I will omit the aforementioned quotation in question. GregTheVirus 01:00, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Pro Career section contains the following, "That's going to be a fun challenge for Troy, because now he's been around enough," Billick said. "The focus and attention that he brings to [preparing] is heightened."[15]
However the source article states, "A fun challenge for Troy," Billick said. "He has to be ready. This could be real. The focus and attention he has to bring to it is heightened." http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/11/13/ravens.mcnair.ap/index.html
The article takes what is needed to be done and presents it as if it is currently being done. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.173.219.204 ( talk) 01:39, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
I was wondering if anyone could update Troy's pro stats? Burner0718 ( talk) 04:23, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Never mind, I got it. :-) Burner0718 ( talk) 05:24, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
They might have it on ESPN.com. You could just copy and paste from there. RC-0722 ( talk) 05:34, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
As was done with the {{ Heisman Trophy}} template, I am changing the winner to say that no one is the 2005 winner, and that Troy Smith is the 2006 winner. The same is also being done for the Matt Leinart article. This is the source. Please do not revert it unless discussed here. See also the List of Heisman Trophy winners talk page for more information. -- AEMoreira042281 ( talk) 02:23, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
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With
this edit, Editor
Discospinster [filled] in 3 bare reference(s) with reFill 2
. Of those, the 'obviously' broken citation was
this one because it is showing two red error messages (it was this one that caught my attention because this article was listed in
Category:CS1 errors: unsupported parameter and
Category:CS1 errors: archive-url).
Looking at the diff it is also noticeable that an external link used as a reference was marked with a {{
dead link}}
template. After Editor Discospinster's edit, the {{dead link}}
template is gone but the link is
still dead.
Because of these obvious errors,
I reverted with the edit summary: tool makes junk citations; please preview and fix before saving;
. Editor Discospinster
re-edited the article without
making any changes so the errors that drew my attention are now back in the article.
While these errors are largely the fault of WP:REFILL, editors who use the tool are responsible for the edits that it suggests. When using any tool, and especially when using reFill, please preview and fix broken citations before saving the article. It is discourteous to expect other editors to clean up a mess that should have been cleaned up by the tool-driver.