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This 2008 featured article has not had a formal review since and I think quite a few issues have piled up since it was promoted, mostly to do with keeping the article up-to-date. A non-exhaustive list of issues:
I'm willing to rewrite the climate change subsection from scratch somewhere in the near to medium future. Other defects of this article are completely beyond my area of expertise. I'm sure there are some volunteers here to get this article back in shape. Femke Nijsse ( talk) 16:04, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
#12 I think the following sentence isn't quite neutral, with unnecessary adjectives: In addition, hurricanes can carry toxins and acids onto shore when they make landfall. The flood water can pick up the toxins from different spills and contaminate the land that it passes over. The toxins are very harmful to the people and animals in the area, as well as the environment around them. The flooding water can also spark many dangerous oil spills. Not sure how important this idea is in the wider context.
I'm proposing the following text to completely replace the climate change subsection. The subsection was now ordered by study, which is bad practice as we would love to rely mostly on review papers and order by the aspects of tropical cyclones that change. Also, we should aim to write about facts and therefore use Wikivoice instead of quoting individual researchers. The section below is a summary of the appropriate section in tropical cyclones and climate change. I know my prose isn't always great, so I'm putting it here first for people to comment. Femke Nijsse ( talk) 15:58, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
Climate change can affect tropical cyclones in a variety of ways: an intensification of rainfall and wind speed, a decrease in overall frequency, an increase in frequency of very intense storms and a poleward extension of where the cyclones reach maximum intensity are among the possible consequences of human-induced climate change. [1]
Tropical cyclones use warm, moist air as their fuel. As climate change is warming ocean temperatures, there is potentially more of this fuel available. [2] Between 1979 and 2017, there was a global increase in the proportion of tropical cyclones of Category 3 and higher on the Saffir–Simpson scale. The trend was most clear in the North Atlantic and in the Southern Indian Ocean. In the North Pacific, tropical cyclones have been moving poleward into colder waters and there was no increase in intensity over this period. [3] With 2°C warming, a greater percentage (+13%) of tropical cyclones are expected to reach Category 4 and 5 strength. [1] A 2019 study indicates that climate change has been driving the observed trend of rapid intensification of tropical cyclones in the Atlantic basin. Rapidly intensifying cyclones are hard to forecast and therefore pose additional risk to coastal communities. [4]
There is currently no consensus on how climate change will affect the overall frequency of tropical cyclones. [1] A majority of climate models show a decreased frequency in future projections. [5] For instance, a 2020 paper comparing nine high-resolution climate models found robust decreases in frequency in the Southern Indian Ocean and the Southern Hemisphere more generally, while finding mixed signals for Northern Hemisphere tropical cyclones. [6] Observations have shown little change in the overall frequency of tropical cyclones worldwide. [7]
There has been a poleward expansion of the latitude at which the maximum intensity of tropical cyclones occurs, which may be associated with climate change. [8] In the North Pacific, there may also be an eastward expansion. [9] Between 1949 and 2016, there was a slowdown in tropical cyclone translation speeds. It is unclear still to what extent this can be attributed to climate change: climate models do not all show this feature. [10]
Warmer air can hold more water vapor: the theoretical maximum water vapor content is given by the Clausius–Clapeyron relation, which yields ≈7% increase in water vapor in the atmosphere per 1 °C warming. [11] [12] All models that were assessed in a 2019 review paper show a future increase of rainfall rates. [1] Additional sea level rise will increase storm surge levels. [9] [13] It is plausible that extreme wind waves see an increase as a consequence of changes in tropical cyclones, further exacerbating storm surge dangers to coastal communities. [5] A 2017 study looked at compounding effects from floods, storm surge, and terrestrial flooding (rivers), and projects an increase due to global warming. [13]
Femke Nijsse ( talk) 15:58, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
I think the proposed changes here are good, as it fixes the problem in the current article of listing study after study. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk) 15:30, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
I am just wondering what the current planning is for the sub-article tropical cyclones and climate change? Does anyone have it on their to-do list, or will it be done the other way around: first work on the content in the section on climate change and later sync it with tropical cyclones and climate change? Just wondering. EMsmile ( talk) 13:23, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
We need to figure out exactly how we are going to structure the intensity subsection and what kind of a subarticle we need to write for it (if we need one). Noah Talk 15:20, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
I am working on the factors now and added in a bit about OHC/TCHP tonight since my exams are done. Noah Talk 01:48, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
13. The popular culture section seems to have examples only from a single country (US). Surely, tropical cyclones must be portrayed in pop. cult. in Japan, Central America / Mexico. FemkeMilene ( talk) 20:50, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
I readded this discussion from the archive as work still needs done. I plan to restart where I left off soon... Noah Talk 16:31, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
References
|
I am kinda basing this off on a large paper on TC structure in terms of points to discuss here. This is still incomplete. Noah Talk 22:41, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Done According to Noah.
Noah
Talk
19:58, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
Done according to Noah.
Noah
Talk
22:16, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Done according to Noah.
Noah
Talk
22:16, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Done according to Noah.
Noah
Talk
22:16, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Done According to Noah.
Noah
Talk
19:24, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
|
1 Background 2 Classification and naming 3 Intensity 4 Structure 5 Movement 6 Formation regions and warning centers 7 Preparations 8 Impacts 9 Response 10 Climatology 11 Observation and forecasting 12 Related cyclone types
Done Looks sufficient to me.
Noah
Talk
22:11, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
Done According to Noah.
Noah
Talk
21:57, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
@ Hurricanehink: We need to make a proper outline of this article in order to bring in every point that needs discussed. I started it off here by reorganizing topics under appropriate sections and adding in some items, but there is likely more items. For example, movement as it is has nothing to do with structure so I split it out into its own section and also added Interaction with the mid-latitude westerlies underneath it as that has to do with movement rather than structure. If you have anything specific that you think needs discussed, please add it to this outline. Intensity is the only one I have thought out thoroughly so it is already well-developed. Noah Talk 11:59, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
the scope of a topic can sometimes justify the added reading material. I think the scope here is easily captured in subarticles, so I would loosely aim for the 50k/8,000 words. I think 8,000 words works well for articles like this because
THIS ARTICLE WILL CONTAIN DUPLICATE MATERIAL UNTIL ALL STORMS ON THE ABOVE LIST THAT ARE ALREADY PRESENT IN THE ARTICLE ARE MENTIONED OUTSIDE THE NOTABLE STORMS SECTION! THE ONES NOT YET MENTIONED INCLUDE TIP, PATRICIA, JOHN, AND MARCO. THE STRUCK NAMES ARE CURRENT DUPLICATES. PLEASE DO NOT DELETE DUPLICATE MENTIONS IN THE MEANTIME. THANK YOU. THIS CONCLUDES YOUR PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT. Sorry for the caps and bolding, but I wanted it to be highly visible. Noah Talk 22:25, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change grammar, to remove comma and replace with full stop, and place an and at the end of a list. Passage copied below with area in need of changes highlighted with asterisks:
Several factors are required for these thunderstorms to develop further, including sea surface temperatures of around 27 °C (81 °F) and low vertical wind shear surrounding the system,[37][38] atmospheric instability, high humidity in the lower to middle levels of the troposphere, enough Coriolis force to develop a low-pressure center, ***and*** a pre-existing low-level focus or disturbance,***replace comma with full stop***[38] There is a limit on tropical cyclone intensity which is strongly related to the water temperatures along its path.[39] and upper-level divergence.[40] An average of 86 tropical cyclones of tropical storm intensity form annually worldwide. Of those, 47 reach strength higher than 119 km/h (74 mph), and 20 become intense tropical cyclones (at least Category 3 intensity on the Saffir–Simpson scale).[41] Adamsmith142 ( talk) 14:20, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
According to 2023 Atlantic hurricane season, there have been 21 tropical depressions so far this year in the Atlantic, but only 20 tropical storms. I came here to find out what the difference is, but nothing in this article explains the difference. Nosferattus ( talk) 21:49, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
I've removed the "further reading" list as I don't think it adds any value. It would have to be curated regularly and also it's currently US centric:
I've made some changes to the structure. My biggest change was that I dissolved the "background" section as I felt that it was not needed and in any case ill-defined. Where would you draw the lines for a "background" section? It could talk about cyclones in general, storms, weather, climate, history and so forth. I didn't delete the content that was there but moved it to better places.
Instead, I have created a section on "definition and terminology". I find in many Wikipedia articles (like this one as well), the first paragraph of the lead talks a lot about terminology but the main article doesn't have a section for it. I think it's better to have a dedicated section for it and then not waste so much valuable space in the first paragraph of the lead on this topic. Also for this lead, I would suggest condensing the info that is currently in the first paragraph of the lead about terminology. And rather put there information that is highly important and relevant for the readers. EMsmile ( talk) 11:03, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
I am surprised we don't interlink better with the parent article for this, i.e.
cyclone. Should it be mentioned and linked at least once in the lead? And also for some sections where it might have additional information for the readers, e.g. regarding formation? So far, I find only one wikilink to
cyclone and that's in this sentence: On the other hand,
Tropical Cyclone Heat Potential is one of such non-conventional subsurface
oceanographic parameters influencing the
cyclone intensity.
EMsmile (
talk)
11:06, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
I've added a sentence about climate change to the end of the lead as I felt this was justified (it's a key question for many people: are tropical cyclones getting worse due to climate change or not). This has made the lead a bit too long now. I've therefore moved some content that was dealing with terminology from the lead to the "terminology" section. The lead is now 604 words. I think we should shrink it down to perhaps 500 words. Who has ideas and inspiration for further condensing the lead? EMsmile ( talk) 11:35, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Tropical cyclone article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1,
2,
3,
4,
5,
6Auto-archiving period: 365 days
![]() |
![]() | This page is not a forum for general discussion about Tropical cyclone. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Tropical cyclone at the Reference desk. |
![]() | This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | Tropical cyclone is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on June 1, 2009. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | Other talk page banners | ||
|
![]() |
|
This 2008 featured article has not had a formal review since and I think quite a few issues have piled up since it was promoted, mostly to do with keeping the article up-to-date. A non-exhaustive list of issues:
I'm willing to rewrite the climate change subsection from scratch somewhere in the near to medium future. Other defects of this article are completely beyond my area of expertise. I'm sure there are some volunteers here to get this article back in shape. Femke Nijsse ( talk) 16:04, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
#12 I think the following sentence isn't quite neutral, with unnecessary adjectives: In addition, hurricanes can carry toxins and acids onto shore when they make landfall. The flood water can pick up the toxins from different spills and contaminate the land that it passes over. The toxins are very harmful to the people and animals in the area, as well as the environment around them. The flooding water can also spark many dangerous oil spills. Not sure how important this idea is in the wider context.
I'm proposing the following text to completely replace the climate change subsection. The subsection was now ordered by study, which is bad practice as we would love to rely mostly on review papers and order by the aspects of tropical cyclones that change. Also, we should aim to write about facts and therefore use Wikivoice instead of quoting individual researchers. The section below is a summary of the appropriate section in tropical cyclones and climate change. I know my prose isn't always great, so I'm putting it here first for people to comment. Femke Nijsse ( talk) 15:58, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
Climate change can affect tropical cyclones in a variety of ways: an intensification of rainfall and wind speed, a decrease in overall frequency, an increase in frequency of very intense storms and a poleward extension of where the cyclones reach maximum intensity are among the possible consequences of human-induced climate change. [1]
Tropical cyclones use warm, moist air as their fuel. As climate change is warming ocean temperatures, there is potentially more of this fuel available. [2] Between 1979 and 2017, there was a global increase in the proportion of tropical cyclones of Category 3 and higher on the Saffir–Simpson scale. The trend was most clear in the North Atlantic and in the Southern Indian Ocean. In the North Pacific, tropical cyclones have been moving poleward into colder waters and there was no increase in intensity over this period. [3] With 2°C warming, a greater percentage (+13%) of tropical cyclones are expected to reach Category 4 and 5 strength. [1] A 2019 study indicates that climate change has been driving the observed trend of rapid intensification of tropical cyclones in the Atlantic basin. Rapidly intensifying cyclones are hard to forecast and therefore pose additional risk to coastal communities. [4]
There is currently no consensus on how climate change will affect the overall frequency of tropical cyclones. [1] A majority of climate models show a decreased frequency in future projections. [5] For instance, a 2020 paper comparing nine high-resolution climate models found robust decreases in frequency in the Southern Indian Ocean and the Southern Hemisphere more generally, while finding mixed signals for Northern Hemisphere tropical cyclones. [6] Observations have shown little change in the overall frequency of tropical cyclones worldwide. [7]
There has been a poleward expansion of the latitude at which the maximum intensity of tropical cyclones occurs, which may be associated with climate change. [8] In the North Pacific, there may also be an eastward expansion. [9] Between 1949 and 2016, there was a slowdown in tropical cyclone translation speeds. It is unclear still to what extent this can be attributed to climate change: climate models do not all show this feature. [10]
Warmer air can hold more water vapor: the theoretical maximum water vapor content is given by the Clausius–Clapeyron relation, which yields ≈7% increase in water vapor in the atmosphere per 1 °C warming. [11] [12] All models that were assessed in a 2019 review paper show a future increase of rainfall rates. [1] Additional sea level rise will increase storm surge levels. [9] [13] It is plausible that extreme wind waves see an increase as a consequence of changes in tropical cyclones, further exacerbating storm surge dangers to coastal communities. [5] A 2017 study looked at compounding effects from floods, storm surge, and terrestrial flooding (rivers), and projects an increase due to global warming. [13]
Femke Nijsse ( talk) 15:58, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
I think the proposed changes here are good, as it fixes the problem in the current article of listing study after study. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk) 15:30, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
I am just wondering what the current planning is for the sub-article tropical cyclones and climate change? Does anyone have it on their to-do list, or will it be done the other way around: first work on the content in the section on climate change and later sync it with tropical cyclones and climate change? Just wondering. EMsmile ( talk) 13:23, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
We need to figure out exactly how we are going to structure the intensity subsection and what kind of a subarticle we need to write for it (if we need one). Noah Talk 15:20, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
I am working on the factors now and added in a bit about OHC/TCHP tonight since my exams are done. Noah Talk 01:48, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
13. The popular culture section seems to have examples only from a single country (US). Surely, tropical cyclones must be portrayed in pop. cult. in Japan, Central America / Mexico. FemkeMilene ( talk) 20:50, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
I readded this discussion from the archive as work still needs done. I plan to restart where I left off soon... Noah Talk 16:31, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
References
|
I am kinda basing this off on a large paper on TC structure in terms of points to discuss here. This is still incomplete. Noah Talk 22:41, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Done According to Noah.
Noah
Talk
19:58, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
Done according to Noah.
Noah
Talk
22:16, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Done according to Noah.
Noah
Talk
22:16, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Done according to Noah.
Noah
Talk
22:16, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Done According to Noah.
Noah
Talk
19:24, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
|
1 Background 2 Classification and naming 3 Intensity 4 Structure 5 Movement 6 Formation regions and warning centers 7 Preparations 8 Impacts 9 Response 10 Climatology 11 Observation and forecasting 12 Related cyclone types
Done Looks sufficient to me.
Noah
Talk
22:11, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
Done According to Noah.
Noah
Talk
21:57, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
@ Hurricanehink: We need to make a proper outline of this article in order to bring in every point that needs discussed. I started it off here by reorganizing topics under appropriate sections and adding in some items, but there is likely more items. For example, movement as it is has nothing to do with structure so I split it out into its own section and also added Interaction with the mid-latitude westerlies underneath it as that has to do with movement rather than structure. If you have anything specific that you think needs discussed, please add it to this outline. Intensity is the only one I have thought out thoroughly so it is already well-developed. Noah Talk 11:59, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
the scope of a topic can sometimes justify the added reading material. I think the scope here is easily captured in subarticles, so I would loosely aim for the 50k/8,000 words. I think 8,000 words works well for articles like this because
THIS ARTICLE WILL CONTAIN DUPLICATE MATERIAL UNTIL ALL STORMS ON THE ABOVE LIST THAT ARE ALREADY PRESENT IN THE ARTICLE ARE MENTIONED OUTSIDE THE NOTABLE STORMS SECTION! THE ONES NOT YET MENTIONED INCLUDE TIP, PATRICIA, JOHN, AND MARCO. THE STRUCK NAMES ARE CURRENT DUPLICATES. PLEASE DO NOT DELETE DUPLICATE MENTIONS IN THE MEANTIME. THANK YOU. THIS CONCLUDES YOUR PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT. Sorry for the caps and bolding, but I wanted it to be highly visible. Noah Talk 22:25, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change grammar, to remove comma and replace with full stop, and place an and at the end of a list. Passage copied below with area in need of changes highlighted with asterisks:
Several factors are required for these thunderstorms to develop further, including sea surface temperatures of around 27 °C (81 °F) and low vertical wind shear surrounding the system,[37][38] atmospheric instability, high humidity in the lower to middle levels of the troposphere, enough Coriolis force to develop a low-pressure center, ***and*** a pre-existing low-level focus or disturbance,***replace comma with full stop***[38] There is a limit on tropical cyclone intensity which is strongly related to the water temperatures along its path.[39] and upper-level divergence.[40] An average of 86 tropical cyclones of tropical storm intensity form annually worldwide. Of those, 47 reach strength higher than 119 km/h (74 mph), and 20 become intense tropical cyclones (at least Category 3 intensity on the Saffir–Simpson scale).[41] Adamsmith142 ( talk) 14:20, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
According to 2023 Atlantic hurricane season, there have been 21 tropical depressions so far this year in the Atlantic, but only 20 tropical storms. I came here to find out what the difference is, but nothing in this article explains the difference. Nosferattus ( talk) 21:49, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
I've removed the "further reading" list as I don't think it adds any value. It would have to be curated regularly and also it's currently US centric:
I've made some changes to the structure. My biggest change was that I dissolved the "background" section as I felt that it was not needed and in any case ill-defined. Where would you draw the lines for a "background" section? It could talk about cyclones in general, storms, weather, climate, history and so forth. I didn't delete the content that was there but moved it to better places.
Instead, I have created a section on "definition and terminology". I find in many Wikipedia articles (like this one as well), the first paragraph of the lead talks a lot about terminology but the main article doesn't have a section for it. I think it's better to have a dedicated section for it and then not waste so much valuable space in the first paragraph of the lead on this topic. Also for this lead, I would suggest condensing the info that is currently in the first paragraph of the lead about terminology. And rather put there information that is highly important and relevant for the readers. EMsmile ( talk) 11:03, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
I am surprised we don't interlink better with the parent article for this, i.e.
cyclone. Should it be mentioned and linked at least once in the lead? And also for some sections where it might have additional information for the readers, e.g. regarding formation? So far, I find only one wikilink to
cyclone and that's in this sentence: On the other hand,
Tropical Cyclone Heat Potential is one of such non-conventional subsurface
oceanographic parameters influencing the
cyclone intensity.
EMsmile (
talk)
11:06, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
I've added a sentence about climate change to the end of the lead as I felt this was justified (it's a key question for many people: are tropical cyclones getting worse due to climate change or not). This has made the lead a bit too long now. I've therefore moved some content that was dealing with terminology from the lead to the "terminology" section. The lead is now 604 words. I think we should shrink it down to perhaps 500 words. Who has ideas and inspiration for further condensing the lead? EMsmile ( talk) 11:35, 22 January 2024 (UTC)