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Unified Surface Analyses from the NWS clearly show that Tropical Depression 11E's surface low moved into the Gulf of Mexico and developed into Tropical Depression 10L/Hermine. There will be a reference for this, other than via the Unified Surface Analyses from the Ocean Prediction Center, in about a week. Thegreatdr ( talk) 01:56, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
I just noticed that the articles were merged. I don't mind terribly, but the source that supports them being the same system (the HPC rainfall page) even said that they were only from the original low pressure area. That doesn't mean they were the same tropical cyclone. Generally, only actual crossover tropical cyclones have the same article. Additionally, given that 11E had a lot of impact in its own right, I think there would be justification for keeping the articles separate.
Feel free to discuss. Hurricanehink ( talk) 15:26, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
Since the NHC stated in their Hermine report that it formed from the same area of low pressure which was TD 11E, I'm curious why the pages were unmerged recently. Thegreatdr ( talk) 23:08, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
Even if the articles are merged (I'm 50/50 now), what would it be called? Would everything be put into Hermine's article? I just don't readers getting the false impression that Hermine caused $500 million in damage and killed 100 people. Wouldn't Tropical Depression Eleven-E-Tropical Storm Hermine (2010) be too long? -- Hurricanehink ( talk) 16:57, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
Alright, I now think that 11E and Hermine should be in the same article, since they were the same overall system. Hurricanehink ( talk) 03:23, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
If I may, it doesn't matter terribly much what the NHC says. We're an encyclopedia, so whatever is the most natural subject is what we should do. Cesar-Douglas works well together because Douglas didn't do much on its own, ditto Fifi. 11E did enough on its own for its own article, and IMO that's slightly more natural (especially since it didn't have a real name that would've carried over). The subject of Hermine should be limited to Atl, IMO. Hurricanehink mobile ( talk) 18:36, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
On Aug 6, 2013, at 10:10 AM, James Franklin wrote: I'm not sure the question on the AOML FAQ is correctly answered, or even clearly stated. The question as stated asks about tropical storm or hurricane passages but the first sentence of the answer changes the topic immediately to tropical cyclones. This confuses the issue of whether tropical depressions count or not. I'd think that is the first thing that ought to be clarified: are we talking about tropical storms that crossed or tropical cyclones? And by crossing over do we mean as bona fide cyclones/storms, or just remnants of tropical cyclones that redevelop. The criteria employed in the FAQ: To be considered the same tropical cyclone an identifiable center of circulation must be tracked continuously and the cyclone must have been of at least tropical storm strength in both basins (i.e. sustained winds of at least 34 kt, or 18 m/s). Tropical Depression Eleven-E degenerated to a remnant low during its passage and therefore did not successfully cross basins as a tropical cyclone. Whether or not it deserves to go on the "list" depends on clarifying what the list is supposed to be a list of. James L. Franklin
And I got further clarification from Neal Dorst.
As James points out the criterion established within the TCFAQ would exclude the Hermine example since it was NOT a Tropical Storm in the East Pacific. Rather than rewrite the whole question and then search the entire database for other examples that might have previously been excluded, I will simply keep things as they are. But thanks for asking.
So they're using the fact that 11E wasn't a TS as a reason to exclude it. Not sure if I personally buy that, since TD's are in the BT now, but that's how it goes. --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk) 21:10, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
The fact of the matter is that there are credible reasons for both sides, and since we're already getting different answers from NHC, I think it's up for us to decide. So, disregarding anything official and going by gut instincts, what does everyone think? --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk) 15:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
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Unified Surface Analyses from the NWS clearly show that Tropical Depression 11E's surface low moved into the Gulf of Mexico and developed into Tropical Depression 10L/Hermine. There will be a reference for this, other than via the Unified Surface Analyses from the Ocean Prediction Center, in about a week. Thegreatdr ( talk) 01:56, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
I just noticed that the articles were merged. I don't mind terribly, but the source that supports them being the same system (the HPC rainfall page) even said that they were only from the original low pressure area. That doesn't mean they were the same tropical cyclone. Generally, only actual crossover tropical cyclones have the same article. Additionally, given that 11E had a lot of impact in its own right, I think there would be justification for keeping the articles separate.
Feel free to discuss. Hurricanehink ( talk) 15:26, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
Since the NHC stated in their Hermine report that it formed from the same area of low pressure which was TD 11E, I'm curious why the pages were unmerged recently. Thegreatdr ( talk) 23:08, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
Even if the articles are merged (I'm 50/50 now), what would it be called? Would everything be put into Hermine's article? I just don't readers getting the false impression that Hermine caused $500 million in damage and killed 100 people. Wouldn't Tropical Depression Eleven-E-Tropical Storm Hermine (2010) be too long? -- Hurricanehink ( talk) 16:57, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
Alright, I now think that 11E and Hermine should be in the same article, since they were the same overall system. Hurricanehink ( talk) 03:23, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
If I may, it doesn't matter terribly much what the NHC says. We're an encyclopedia, so whatever is the most natural subject is what we should do. Cesar-Douglas works well together because Douglas didn't do much on its own, ditto Fifi. 11E did enough on its own for its own article, and IMO that's slightly more natural (especially since it didn't have a real name that would've carried over). The subject of Hermine should be limited to Atl, IMO. Hurricanehink mobile ( talk) 18:36, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
On Aug 6, 2013, at 10:10 AM, James Franklin wrote: I'm not sure the question on the AOML FAQ is correctly answered, or even clearly stated. The question as stated asks about tropical storm or hurricane passages but the first sentence of the answer changes the topic immediately to tropical cyclones. This confuses the issue of whether tropical depressions count or not. I'd think that is the first thing that ought to be clarified: are we talking about tropical storms that crossed or tropical cyclones? And by crossing over do we mean as bona fide cyclones/storms, or just remnants of tropical cyclones that redevelop. The criteria employed in the FAQ: To be considered the same tropical cyclone an identifiable center of circulation must be tracked continuously and the cyclone must have been of at least tropical storm strength in both basins (i.e. sustained winds of at least 34 kt, or 18 m/s). Tropical Depression Eleven-E degenerated to a remnant low during its passage and therefore did not successfully cross basins as a tropical cyclone. Whether or not it deserves to go on the "list" depends on clarifying what the list is supposed to be a list of. James L. Franklin
And I got further clarification from Neal Dorst.
As James points out the criterion established within the TCFAQ would exclude the Hermine example since it was NOT a Tropical Storm in the East Pacific. Rather than rewrite the whole question and then search the entire database for other examples that might have previously been excluded, I will simply keep things as they are. But thanks for asking.
So they're using the fact that 11E wasn't a TS as a reason to exclude it. Not sure if I personally buy that, since TD's are in the BT now, but that's how it goes. --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk) 21:10, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
The fact of the matter is that there are credible reasons for both sides, and since we're already getting different answers from NHC, I think it's up for us to decide. So, disregarding anything official and going by gut instincts, what does everyone think? --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk) 15:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
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