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Is TOMCC a motorcycle racing governing body like FIM or AMA? They seem to organize shows, meetings, and charity events, not races. So {{ Infobox Sport governing body}} should be replaced with {{ Infobox Organization}}, like Harley Owners Group or 59 Club. It doesn't make a huge difference other than country flags only belong on articles of nationalistic racing bodies, e.g. Polski Związek Motorowy, as per MOS:FLAG. -- Dennis Bratland ( talk) 04:13, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
The OFFICIAL name of this Club is 'The Triumph Owners' Motor Cycle Club'. However when I made the change to add in the apostrophe, Biker Biker decided to remove it (despite it having an apostrophe on the Club's official website).— Preceding unsigned comment added by WyrmUK ( talk • contribs) 08:36, 26 February 2013
But if the consensus is there, then I see no great harm in moving the page. You should do a Requested move, specifically you should follow the instructions at WP:RM/CM. If other editors support it, it will be moved (i.e. the page will be renamed Triumph Owners' Motor Cycle Club). -- Dennis Bratland ( talk) 00:52, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus. -- BDD ( talk) 17:45, 18 March 2013 (UTC) ( non-admin closure)
Triumph Owners Motor Cycle Club → Triumph Owners' Motor Cycle Club – The official name of the Club includes an apostrophe, as specified in the TOMCC Club Rules. The Club Rules are the only official declarations of the Club as they require a vote at the Club AGM to make a change to them, all other references should be treated as non-official (including the Handbook which has been created by one specific member of the Club). Using web pages of Branches of the Club as sources of inconsistency are not valid because the Branches are self-governing (as per Rule 3 in the Club Rules), can put up what they want to on their own websites, and should not be treated as knowlegeable representatives of the Club. The reason for the apostrophe is because the Triumph Owners' Motor Cycle Club is a Club which belongs to its members, the apostrophe indicating the possessive - rather than a Club that the members belong to. The logo has an abbreviated form of the Club name which omits the apostrophe and abbreviates Motor Cycle Club to M.C.C. and does not represent the official name of the Club. There are probably hundreds of links and references posted up on various sites without the apostrophe, but they should not be used to deprive the Club of being named in the manner its members have voted for it to be represented. Relisted. BDD ( talk) 16:54, 11 March 2013 (UTC) 77.102.232.32 ( talk) 20:20, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
If this apostrophe issue were coming from independent sources, it would be entirely different. Instead, it's one single individual who's evidence just happens to be the web site he is the web master of and whose content he writes. Purely WP:SPS. There are numerous books about Triumph motorcycles, and newspaper and magazine articles. They omit the apostrophe, with only one or two exceptions. Those that use it do so very inconsistently. Even the club's own logo, which takes pains to include the two periods in M.C.C., doesn't bother with it. Out of 40 TOMCC branches, only one uses the apostrophe.
There is zero evidence of any confusion over the meaning of the name, because the apostrophe doesn't actually convey any information. There isn't a plausible alternative reading of the name without the apostrophe. Traditionalists may insist it is "correct" but that is only an opinion. The alternative view is to see English in terms of what works, and the name works fine without it.
If we could find anybody outside the Wikipedia bubble who said this mattered, I'd go with those sources, but here we have Wikipedia editors saying they know best, and the rest of the world is wrong. -- Dennis Bratland ( talk) 16:47, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
The article as it stands currently is out of date. Specifically the TOMCC are no longer affiliated to MAG and the membership figures have increased significantly since the article was edited to include the figure. It may be better to just remove the membership figures part as it's not going to be easy to verify or keep updating. Because of my involvement with the TOMCC I don't feel it is appropriate for me to update the article itself so I'm just marking it as out of date. Wyrm ( talk) 10:20, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Is TOMCC a motorcycle racing governing body like FIM or AMA? They seem to organize shows, meetings, and charity events, not races. So {{ Infobox Sport governing body}} should be replaced with {{ Infobox Organization}}, like Harley Owners Group or 59 Club. It doesn't make a huge difference other than country flags only belong on articles of nationalistic racing bodies, e.g. Polski Związek Motorowy, as per MOS:FLAG. -- Dennis Bratland ( talk) 04:13, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
The OFFICIAL name of this Club is 'The Triumph Owners' Motor Cycle Club'. However when I made the change to add in the apostrophe, Biker Biker decided to remove it (despite it having an apostrophe on the Club's official website).— Preceding unsigned comment added by WyrmUK ( talk • contribs) 08:36, 26 February 2013
But if the consensus is there, then I see no great harm in moving the page. You should do a Requested move, specifically you should follow the instructions at WP:RM/CM. If other editors support it, it will be moved (i.e. the page will be renamed Triumph Owners' Motor Cycle Club). -- Dennis Bratland ( talk) 00:52, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus. -- BDD ( talk) 17:45, 18 March 2013 (UTC) ( non-admin closure)
Triumph Owners Motor Cycle Club → Triumph Owners' Motor Cycle Club – The official name of the Club includes an apostrophe, as specified in the TOMCC Club Rules. The Club Rules are the only official declarations of the Club as they require a vote at the Club AGM to make a change to them, all other references should be treated as non-official (including the Handbook which has been created by one specific member of the Club). Using web pages of Branches of the Club as sources of inconsistency are not valid because the Branches are self-governing (as per Rule 3 in the Club Rules), can put up what they want to on their own websites, and should not be treated as knowlegeable representatives of the Club. The reason for the apostrophe is because the Triumph Owners' Motor Cycle Club is a Club which belongs to its members, the apostrophe indicating the possessive - rather than a Club that the members belong to. The logo has an abbreviated form of the Club name which omits the apostrophe and abbreviates Motor Cycle Club to M.C.C. and does not represent the official name of the Club. There are probably hundreds of links and references posted up on various sites without the apostrophe, but they should not be used to deprive the Club of being named in the manner its members have voted for it to be represented. Relisted. BDD ( talk) 16:54, 11 March 2013 (UTC) 77.102.232.32 ( talk) 20:20, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
If this apostrophe issue were coming from independent sources, it would be entirely different. Instead, it's one single individual who's evidence just happens to be the web site he is the web master of and whose content he writes. Purely WP:SPS. There are numerous books about Triumph motorcycles, and newspaper and magazine articles. They omit the apostrophe, with only one or two exceptions. Those that use it do so very inconsistently. Even the club's own logo, which takes pains to include the two periods in M.C.C., doesn't bother with it. Out of 40 TOMCC branches, only one uses the apostrophe.
There is zero evidence of any confusion over the meaning of the name, because the apostrophe doesn't actually convey any information. There isn't a plausible alternative reading of the name without the apostrophe. Traditionalists may insist it is "correct" but that is only an opinion. The alternative view is to see English in terms of what works, and the name works fine without it.
If we could find anybody outside the Wikipedia bubble who said this mattered, I'd go with those sources, but here we have Wikipedia editors saying they know best, and the rest of the world is wrong. -- Dennis Bratland ( talk) 16:47, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
The article as it stands currently is out of date. Specifically the TOMCC are no longer affiliated to MAG and the membership figures have increased significantly since the article was edited to include the figure. It may be better to just remove the membership figures part as it's not going to be easy to verify or keep updating. Because of my involvement with the TOMCC I don't feel it is appropriate for me to update the article itself so I'm just marking it as out of date. Wyrm ( talk) 10:20, 3 February 2015 (UTC)