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Started the article - the latest in the series about glycidyl ethers GRALISTAIR ( talk) 18:22, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
Please check the CAS name, as what is here appears to be a completely different compound with chlorine, and a diol. If you have access to CAS, can you see what 36366-26-4 is? Graeme Bartlett ( talk) 22:26, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
References
Well in fairness I have read multiple times and full disclosure it is my job- for over 40 years. I understand the burden of Wikipedia standard of proof is on me but I think I now see where your misunderstanding is coming from. Let us take simple epoxy resin. There are usually 2 CAS numbers used in the industry. 25068-30-6 is one that is very often used. Look at page 12 of this document. [1] If you look at the whole document though you will see the molecule drawn out and not a even a smell of a hydroxyl group - but -but -but - look at the description -- Phenol, 4,4'-(1-methylethylidene)bis-, polymer with (chloromethyl)oxirane - from that description you would think there are hydroxyl groups present and chlorine - but they are not. It is bad wording in the early days of TSCA and CAS. It was a way of using the word polymer to get round legislation etc. The European Union amended the rules in 1992 and now produce a No Longer Polymers List (attached for your reference). [2]
However, you can argue the European Union confuse it even more- this is key. [3] CAS Number: 25068-38-6 Molecular formula: (C15H16O2 . C3H5ClO)x IUPAC Name: 4,4'-Isopropylidenediphenol, oligomeric reaction products with 1-chloro-2,3-epoxypropane. Note in the formula and name they have hydroxyls and halogens - but look at the structure and no chlorine to be seen. This from Europe not bad either. [4]
Anyway, I promise I will do the same exhaustive research for TMETGE. I will need to give you links where possible showing that some extremely reputable companies -Cargill ChemMod 44, Hexion Heloxy 44, Arnette Polymers RX44 and other all use 68460-21-9.
I am glad we are having this discussion and hope to reach consensus. At the moment I am refusing to pay money for CAS themselves to do the search and give a definitive answer.
Meanwhile an Australian SDS that has really been through the mill. Look in section 3 ingredients - again TMETGE is given CAS 68460-21-9 [5] as does one in California [6]
I typed into google the following exactly "trimethylolethane" triglycidyl ether CAS number and the absolute top hit and multiple more show 68460-21-9. [7]
As I said, I will now try and get full SDS from 3 reputable independent respected sources to hopefully convince you. I don't want this to go to arbitration. GRALISTAIR ( talk) 13:54, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
At least 1 Chinese source shows 68460-21-9 with the name TMETGE and the correct structure [8] GRALISTAIR ( talk) 15:37, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
Here is another really interesting page. Sadly it does not draw the structure but [9] it shows the correct formula - but not a chlorine in sight. Look at the molecular weight - it balances perfectly with the stated formula -but not a chlorine in sight. If you calculated the MWt with chlorines in it would be way out of kilter. But the name has chlorine in - again it is the way CAS/TSCA were set up sadly. GRALISTAIR ( talk) 16:01, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
One textbook I love and consider the bible on diluents and fillers etc is [10] In particular check page 64 - where the information is presented again showing the CAS number 68460-21-9 GRALISTAIR ( talk) 16:04, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
Here is another excellent example. Fortunately in this case they show the correct structure and namebut also show chlorine and other atoms. ChemSRC is again the culprit. [11] GRALISTAIR ( talk) 21:09, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
Started the article - the latest in the series about glycidyl ethers GRALISTAIR ( talk) 18:22, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
Please check the CAS name, as what is here appears to be a completely different compound with chlorine, and a diol. If you have access to CAS, can you see what 36366-26-4 is? Graeme Bartlett ( talk) 22:26, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
References
Well in fairness I have read multiple times and full disclosure it is my job- for over 40 years. I understand the burden of Wikipedia standard of proof is on me but I think I now see where your misunderstanding is coming from. Let us take simple epoxy resin. There are usually 2 CAS numbers used in the industry. 25068-30-6 is one that is very often used. Look at page 12 of this document. [1] If you look at the whole document though you will see the molecule drawn out and not a even a smell of a hydroxyl group - but -but -but - look at the description -- Phenol, 4,4'-(1-methylethylidene)bis-, polymer with (chloromethyl)oxirane - from that description you would think there are hydroxyl groups present and chlorine - but they are not. It is bad wording in the early days of TSCA and CAS. It was a way of using the word polymer to get round legislation etc. The European Union amended the rules in 1992 and now produce a No Longer Polymers List (attached for your reference). [2]
However, you can argue the European Union confuse it even more- this is key. [3] CAS Number: 25068-38-6 Molecular formula: (C15H16O2 . C3H5ClO)x IUPAC Name: 4,4'-Isopropylidenediphenol, oligomeric reaction products with 1-chloro-2,3-epoxypropane. Note in the formula and name they have hydroxyls and halogens - but look at the structure and no chlorine to be seen. This from Europe not bad either. [4]
Anyway, I promise I will do the same exhaustive research for TMETGE. I will need to give you links where possible showing that some extremely reputable companies -Cargill ChemMod 44, Hexion Heloxy 44, Arnette Polymers RX44 and other all use 68460-21-9.
I am glad we are having this discussion and hope to reach consensus. At the moment I am refusing to pay money for CAS themselves to do the search and give a definitive answer.
Meanwhile an Australian SDS that has really been through the mill. Look in section 3 ingredients - again TMETGE is given CAS 68460-21-9 [5] as does one in California [6]
I typed into google the following exactly "trimethylolethane" triglycidyl ether CAS number and the absolute top hit and multiple more show 68460-21-9. [7]
As I said, I will now try and get full SDS from 3 reputable independent respected sources to hopefully convince you. I don't want this to go to arbitration. GRALISTAIR ( talk) 13:54, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
At least 1 Chinese source shows 68460-21-9 with the name TMETGE and the correct structure [8] GRALISTAIR ( talk) 15:37, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
Here is another really interesting page. Sadly it does not draw the structure but [9] it shows the correct formula - but not a chlorine in sight. Look at the molecular weight - it balances perfectly with the stated formula -but not a chlorine in sight. If you calculated the MWt with chlorines in it would be way out of kilter. But the name has chlorine in - again it is the way CAS/TSCA were set up sadly. GRALISTAIR ( talk) 16:01, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
One textbook I love and consider the bible on diluents and fillers etc is [10] In particular check page 64 - where the information is presented again showing the CAS number 68460-21-9 GRALISTAIR ( talk) 16:04, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
Here is another excellent example. Fortunately in this case they show the correct structure and namebut also show chlorine and other atoms. ChemSRC is again the culprit. [11] GRALISTAIR ( talk) 21:09, 23 May 2022 (UTC)