Treaty of Lutatius is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on June 1, 2021. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Contributors wishing to expand the article could look at the text I wrote in the article on Aulus Manlius Torquatus Atticus, consul in 241, who apparently opposed the treaty (see section on his "second consulship"). T8612 (talk) 14:47, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Usernameunique ( talk · contribs) 19:23, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
Sources
the historian Polybius ( c. 200 – c. 188 BC), a Greek sent to Rome in 167 BC— The article on him says he died c. 125 BC, not 188; that would make sense, since otherwise he would be 12 years old at his death, and 21 years dead when he became a hostage.
Polybius's work is considered— Who considers it so?
Modern historians usually also take into account the histories of Diodorus Siculus and Dio Cassius... The 12th-century Byzantine chronicler Joannes Zonaras, who relied on much earlier sources, is also sometimes used.— Where did they get their information from?
First Punic War
Many members of the Roman elite saw strategic and monetary advantages in gaining a foothold in Sicily— What caused the breakdown in relations that led this to be considered the more advantageous option?
the large majority of the Roman fleet was destroyed in a storm, with an estimated loss of 100,000 men— How many ships? Is there an article about the destruction?
they restricted their naval activities to small-scale operations for seven years... the Romans were attempting to decisively defeat the Carthaginians— Are these sentences not contradictory?
The Carthaginians held only two cities on Sicily— Suggest "By [year], the Carthaginians held only two cities on Sicily"
the number of adult male citizens ... had declined by 17 per cent since the start of the war— Was that because they had died in the war, or was it due to other reasons?
The Carthaginians raised a larger fleet— How did they pay for it?
the better-trained Romans defeated the undermanned and ill-trained Carthaginian fleet— What happened to the Carthaginian fleet? Captured/destroyed?
Treaty
it ordered Hamilcar to agree a peace treaty with the Romans— To negotiate a peace treaty? To sign a peace treaty?
The senior Roman commander on Sicily was the recently victorious consul Catulus, and Gisco opened discussions with him.— Perhaps "Gisco opened discussions with Catulus, the senior Roman commander on Sicily who had recently been reelected consul."
Lutatius's initial term in 242 BC had, unusually, been extended for a year.— Are we still talking about Catulus? If so, why is he now being called Lutatius?
2,200 talents of silver – 57,000 kg (56 LT) – over 20 years— Previously, you used a footnote for this conversion. I'd suggest removing the conversion here, and moving the footnote from the previous section into the main text.
they were rejected— Why?
a negotiating ploy— To do what? Make the brother look good so he would indeed take over as consul?
Probably the Lipari and Aegades Islands and Ustica.— Why is this not known with certainty?
There were other minor clauses in the final agreement— Worth a footnote discussing them?
Sardinia and Corsica
supplied finance and food— financing? finances?
2,743 Carthaginian prisoners still held were released without a ransom— Was this the last of the prisoners held by Rome? I take it these were some of the prisoners who Carthage had previously agreed to ransom?
which took refuge in Italy— Roman-controlled Italy, or another part?
Carthage sent an embassy to Rome, which quoted the Treaty of Lutatius and claimed they were outfitting their own expedition to retake the island, which it had held for 300 years— This should probably be "who quoted" and "claimed Carthage was outfitting" (to make clear it is the embassy talking, not Rome).
Sources
Overall
Hi Usernameunique, thanks for picking this up, and so promptly. Bedtime here, so I shall respond in detail tomorrow. I can certainly provide lots of the information you are querying above, but before I do, can I flag up that a lot of it seems to be getting pretty seriously off topic, so are you asking out of interest, or is it your polite way of saying "If it is known, put it in"? If the latter, no problem at all: I currently have Battle of the Aegates - the last battle of the war - and Mercenary War - the post-war mutiny and revolt that among other things led to Roman claiming Sardinia - in the back end of FAC, First Punic War in ACR and have just submitted Gisco (died 239 BC) for GAN; so if the information exists I am probably on top of it. But, as I said, some of it seems to me likely to hit 3b issues. Cheers. Gog the Mild ( talk) 22:16, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
The result was: promoted by
Yoninah (
talk)
17:30, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
Improved to Good Article status by Gog the Mild ( talk). Self-nominated at 19:10, 22 April 2020 (UTC).
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
---|
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
---|
|
Hook eligibility:
QPQ: Done. |
Overall: epicgenius ( talk) 13:39, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
Thanks epicgenius. Fair point, I have removed it from the hook. And repeated the relevant cites at the end of what I think are the two relevant sentences in the article. Gog the Mild ( talk) 13:50, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
Treaty of Lutatius is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on June 1, 2021. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Contributors wishing to expand the article could look at the text I wrote in the article on Aulus Manlius Torquatus Atticus, consul in 241, who apparently opposed the treaty (see section on his "second consulship"). T8612 (talk) 14:47, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Usernameunique ( talk · contribs) 19:23, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
Sources
the historian Polybius ( c. 200 – c. 188 BC), a Greek sent to Rome in 167 BC— The article on him says he died c. 125 BC, not 188; that would make sense, since otherwise he would be 12 years old at his death, and 21 years dead when he became a hostage.
Polybius's work is considered— Who considers it so?
Modern historians usually also take into account the histories of Diodorus Siculus and Dio Cassius... The 12th-century Byzantine chronicler Joannes Zonaras, who relied on much earlier sources, is also sometimes used.— Where did they get their information from?
First Punic War
Many members of the Roman elite saw strategic and monetary advantages in gaining a foothold in Sicily— What caused the breakdown in relations that led this to be considered the more advantageous option?
the large majority of the Roman fleet was destroyed in a storm, with an estimated loss of 100,000 men— How many ships? Is there an article about the destruction?
they restricted their naval activities to small-scale operations for seven years... the Romans were attempting to decisively defeat the Carthaginians— Are these sentences not contradictory?
The Carthaginians held only two cities on Sicily— Suggest "By [year], the Carthaginians held only two cities on Sicily"
the number of adult male citizens ... had declined by 17 per cent since the start of the war— Was that because they had died in the war, or was it due to other reasons?
The Carthaginians raised a larger fleet— How did they pay for it?
the better-trained Romans defeated the undermanned and ill-trained Carthaginian fleet— What happened to the Carthaginian fleet? Captured/destroyed?
Treaty
it ordered Hamilcar to agree a peace treaty with the Romans— To negotiate a peace treaty? To sign a peace treaty?
The senior Roman commander on Sicily was the recently victorious consul Catulus, and Gisco opened discussions with him.— Perhaps "Gisco opened discussions with Catulus, the senior Roman commander on Sicily who had recently been reelected consul."
Lutatius's initial term in 242 BC had, unusually, been extended for a year.— Are we still talking about Catulus? If so, why is he now being called Lutatius?
2,200 talents of silver – 57,000 kg (56 LT) – over 20 years— Previously, you used a footnote for this conversion. I'd suggest removing the conversion here, and moving the footnote from the previous section into the main text.
they were rejected— Why?
a negotiating ploy— To do what? Make the brother look good so he would indeed take over as consul?
Probably the Lipari and Aegades Islands and Ustica.— Why is this not known with certainty?
There were other minor clauses in the final agreement— Worth a footnote discussing them?
Sardinia and Corsica
supplied finance and food— financing? finances?
2,743 Carthaginian prisoners still held were released without a ransom— Was this the last of the prisoners held by Rome? I take it these were some of the prisoners who Carthage had previously agreed to ransom?
which took refuge in Italy— Roman-controlled Italy, or another part?
Carthage sent an embassy to Rome, which quoted the Treaty of Lutatius and claimed they were outfitting their own expedition to retake the island, which it had held for 300 years— This should probably be "who quoted" and "claimed Carthage was outfitting" (to make clear it is the embassy talking, not Rome).
Sources
Overall
Hi Usernameunique, thanks for picking this up, and so promptly. Bedtime here, so I shall respond in detail tomorrow. I can certainly provide lots of the information you are querying above, but before I do, can I flag up that a lot of it seems to be getting pretty seriously off topic, so are you asking out of interest, or is it your polite way of saying "If it is known, put it in"? If the latter, no problem at all: I currently have Battle of the Aegates - the last battle of the war - and Mercenary War - the post-war mutiny and revolt that among other things led to Roman claiming Sardinia - in the back end of FAC, First Punic War in ACR and have just submitted Gisco (died 239 BC) for GAN; so if the information exists I am probably on top of it. But, as I said, some of it seems to me likely to hit 3b issues. Cheers. Gog the Mild ( talk) 22:16, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
The result was: promoted by
Yoninah (
talk)
17:30, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
Improved to Good Article status by Gog the Mild ( talk). Self-nominated at 19:10, 22 April 2020 (UTC).
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
---|
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
---|
|
Hook eligibility:
QPQ: Done. |
Overall: epicgenius ( talk) 13:39, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
Thanks epicgenius. Fair point, I have removed it from the hook. And repeated the relevant cites at the end of what I think are the two relevant sentences in the article. Gog the Mild ( talk) 13:50, 25 April 2020 (UTC)