The result of the move request was: Not moved) Mike Cline ( talk) 15:58, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
Transjordan (Bible) →
Transjordan (region)
While the term Transjordan indeed originated in the Bible, it had a prolonged geographic use throughout history, both in antiquity and Middle Ages, while in the modern times it became to be associated with the Emirate of Transjordan (later renamed to Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan). I herewith propose to make it a clear geographic term, and not vague religious or literature definition. Greyshark09 ( talk) 15:48, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
Image of p. 281 at Google Books
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help).Image of p. 444 at Google Books
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96.29.176.92 (
talk) 04:12, 6 June 2016 (UTC) & +example 06:04, 6 June 2016 (UTC)Moved as proposed. bd2412 T 20:31, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
Transjordan (Bible) → Transjordan in the Bible – The article is not about a Bible named Transjordan. Its about a region named Transjordan. And the Transjordan in question is the only one there is. The current format of the title is therefore weird. Srnec ( talk) 00:12, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
The article reads: "The half tribe of Manasseh are not mentioned until verse 33. David Jobling suggests that this is because Manasseh settled in land which previously belonged to Og, north of the Jabbok, while Reuben and Gad settled Sihon's land, which lay south of the Jabbok. Since Og's territory was not on the route to Canaan, it was "more naturally part of the Promised Land", and so the Manassites' status is less problematic than that of the Reubenites or Gadites." I've set in bold letters the part in question.
It makes no immediate sense whatsoever; just look at the map. How was the position vs. Jabbok relevant in this regard? Both areas are right across the Jordan from the Promised Land. Both have fords over the Jordan; one traditional point of crossing, Bethabara, is in Gad's territory, so not in Manasseh's, but also not in Reben's. I tried GoogleBooks, but couldn't get to the relevant explanation. So what is the argument? If it's not indicated here, the whole paragraph becomes a useless irritant and should best be removed. Arminden ( talk) 12:02, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
Another article missing the basic info, in the lead as much as in the entire article: what exactly does it cover?
We need a clear explanation of what exactly "Transjordan in the Bible" means: the territory of the 2.5 tribes, or that of Ammon and Moab, or both, or all that plus more? And then a map that shows the extent of Transjordan and the approximate boundaries. If we are talking of 1/2 Manasseh + Gad + Reuben + whatever is left of Ammon and Moab, then that's what we need (use cross-hatching in 2 different colours where the two overlap). Then an explanation should also be added why "Trans-Jordan" doesn't only include what's east of the Jordan River, but also what's east (trans) of the Dead Sea. And what about the Golan Heights, which were part of Aram-Damascus, not inhabited by Israelites, but very much trans the upper course of the Jordan? Arminden ( talk) 20:05, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: Not moved) Mike Cline ( talk) 15:58, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
Transjordan (Bible) →
Transjordan (region)
While the term Transjordan indeed originated in the Bible, it had a prolonged geographic use throughout history, both in antiquity and Middle Ages, while in the modern times it became to be associated with the Emirate of Transjordan (later renamed to Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan). I herewith propose to make it a clear geographic term, and not vague religious or literature definition. Greyshark09 ( talk) 15:48, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
Image of p. 281 at Google Books
{{
cite book}}
: External link in |quote=
(
help).Image of p. 444 at Google Books
{{
cite book}}
: External link in |quote=
(
help).
96.29.176.92 (
talk) 04:12, 6 June 2016 (UTC) & +example 06:04, 6 June 2016 (UTC)Moved as proposed. bd2412 T 20:31, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
Transjordan (Bible) → Transjordan in the Bible – The article is not about a Bible named Transjordan. Its about a region named Transjordan. And the Transjordan in question is the only one there is. The current format of the title is therefore weird. Srnec ( talk) 00:12, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
The article reads: "The half tribe of Manasseh are not mentioned until verse 33. David Jobling suggests that this is because Manasseh settled in land which previously belonged to Og, north of the Jabbok, while Reuben and Gad settled Sihon's land, which lay south of the Jabbok. Since Og's territory was not on the route to Canaan, it was "more naturally part of the Promised Land", and so the Manassites' status is less problematic than that of the Reubenites or Gadites." I've set in bold letters the part in question.
It makes no immediate sense whatsoever; just look at the map. How was the position vs. Jabbok relevant in this regard? Both areas are right across the Jordan from the Promised Land. Both have fords over the Jordan; one traditional point of crossing, Bethabara, is in Gad's territory, so not in Manasseh's, but also not in Reben's. I tried GoogleBooks, but couldn't get to the relevant explanation. So what is the argument? If it's not indicated here, the whole paragraph becomes a useless irritant and should best be removed. Arminden ( talk) 12:02, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
Another article missing the basic info, in the lead as much as in the entire article: what exactly does it cover?
We need a clear explanation of what exactly "Transjordan in the Bible" means: the territory of the 2.5 tribes, or that of Ammon and Moab, or both, or all that plus more? And then a map that shows the extent of Transjordan and the approximate boundaries. If we are talking of 1/2 Manasseh + Gad + Reuben + whatever is left of Ammon and Moab, then that's what we need (use cross-hatching in 2 different colours where the two overlap). Then an explanation should also be added why "Trans-Jordan" doesn't only include what's east of the Jordan River, but also what's east (trans) of the Dead Sea. And what about the Golan Heights, which were part of Aram-Damascus, not inhabited by Israelites, but very much trans the upper course of the Jordan? Arminden ( talk) 20:05, 15 December 2019 (UTC)