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![]() | The contents of the Monotransitive verb page were merged into Transitive verb on May 9, 2014. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
Hi, could someone get a source for tritransitivity? I have never heard of the name before, and the example given (I bought you a book for ten dollars) sounds fishy — the third "object", for three dollars, looks more like an adjunct; for that matter, so does the first one, you. Can we get a normative grammar which supports that interpretation? Wtrmute ( talk) 03:24, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
For learners of English, it is difficult to remember these two names for identifying verbs. These words have no connection to understanding the explanation of the words. It would be better if some other words were mainstream describers of these two words. For example, maybe a word like 'object verb' or 'O-verb' for transitive verb and 'Complete verb' or 'C-verb' for intransitive. I don't have the answer words to use but maybe someone does. It sure would be nice if English grammar terms were more friendly to learners. 101.51.226.123 ( talk) 13:39, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
More cognitive capacity would be used if w/ transitive would be used but complete verb would also be confusing since it would seem "complete" would have a subject and object which is opposite to trans-verbs — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.61.138.63 ( talk) 00:14, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
An article that you have been involved in editing, Transitive verb, has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Joeystanley ( talk) 20:42, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
Done. Following discussion at
Talk:Monotransitive verb, that article was
merged into this one.
Cnilep (
talk)
02:59, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
This article uses the label complex transitive for constructions with two arguments and an argument-like adjunct, as in "She broke the toothpick into tiny pieces." That terminology is certainly used in published literature – see for example Sandoval & Jelnick, "We define a complex transitive verb as consisting of an intransitive verb and an adjoined postpositional phrase" (1989; p. 350). The term I learned, however, was pseudo-ditransitive, as illustrated by Corral Esteban: "The following example shows a problematic situation provoked by the presence of a benefactive participant in another pseudo-ditransitive structure: Haŋpíkčeka kiŋ lená wé- Ø- čage [I made those moccasins for him]" (2012, p. 24). I believe such constructions are also called "transitive plus adjunct" or "transitive plus benefactive", and construction grammar sometimes calls them "load and spray constructions" or the like (e.g. Goldberg 2002).
Any road, this pretty specialized vocabulary. I think it needs to be explained as simply as possible for the benefit of non-linguists. It may also be good to mention the variety of terms used, perhaps in a footnote, for the benefit of linguistics students. Cnilep ( talk) 02:42, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
The article mentions Japanese and Polish, but most of the examples are from English and the the discussion is biased toward English grammar. Please help globalize the content by discussing transitivity and the place of transitive verbs in other languages, especially non-Indo-European ones. Cnilep ( talk) 03:57, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
I removed some description of Polish that suggested, "the definition of transitive verbs as those with one object is not universal" and offered Polish as a counter-example. That seems like a misunderstanding, or at least a difference of emphasis.
The text was added by User:Grzegorj in 2006. Grzegorz Jagodziński has since expanded his remarks on this page, which appears to be self-published work.
Jagodziński says that Polish direct objects may be marked with instrumental case, rather than the usual accusative or genitive, for some verbs. That is not the same thing as claiming that the definition of "transitive verb" does not apply in Polish. I'm not aware of anyone – certainly not the current version of this page – who defines "transitive verbs" as only those verbs with exactly one object, nor who define it in terms of particular case assignments. Cnilep ( talk) 06:11, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
Cnilep, you are a simple ignorant. All I wrote on transitives is not my self-published work. It is a well-known part of the Polish grammar easy to find in any book on the subject. This is your problem you cannot read Polish. But this does not justify you to remove anything. So please, be so kind and read for a little while anything more than English-biased grammar works, and only then remove other people editions.
Grzegorj ( talk) 18:00, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
Hi, regardless of the linguistic terminology, what about sentences like 'to die a hero('s life)'? Thanks in advance. -- Backinstadiums ( talk) 23:40, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||
|
![]() | The contents of the Monotransitive verb page were merged into Transitive verb on May 9, 2014. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
Hi, could someone get a source for tritransitivity? I have never heard of the name before, and the example given (I bought you a book for ten dollars) sounds fishy — the third "object", for three dollars, looks more like an adjunct; for that matter, so does the first one, you. Can we get a normative grammar which supports that interpretation? Wtrmute ( talk) 03:24, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
For learners of English, it is difficult to remember these two names for identifying verbs. These words have no connection to understanding the explanation of the words. It would be better if some other words were mainstream describers of these two words. For example, maybe a word like 'object verb' or 'O-verb' for transitive verb and 'Complete verb' or 'C-verb' for intransitive. I don't have the answer words to use but maybe someone does. It sure would be nice if English grammar terms were more friendly to learners. 101.51.226.123 ( talk) 13:39, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
More cognitive capacity would be used if w/ transitive would be used but complete verb would also be confusing since it would seem "complete" would have a subject and object which is opposite to trans-verbs — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.61.138.63 ( talk) 00:14, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
An article that you have been involved in editing, Transitive verb, has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Joeystanley ( talk) 20:42, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
Done. Following discussion at
Talk:Monotransitive verb, that article was
merged into this one.
Cnilep (
talk)
02:59, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
This article uses the label complex transitive for constructions with two arguments and an argument-like adjunct, as in "She broke the toothpick into tiny pieces." That terminology is certainly used in published literature – see for example Sandoval & Jelnick, "We define a complex transitive verb as consisting of an intransitive verb and an adjoined postpositional phrase" (1989; p. 350). The term I learned, however, was pseudo-ditransitive, as illustrated by Corral Esteban: "The following example shows a problematic situation provoked by the presence of a benefactive participant in another pseudo-ditransitive structure: Haŋpíkčeka kiŋ lená wé- Ø- čage [I made those moccasins for him]" (2012, p. 24). I believe such constructions are also called "transitive plus adjunct" or "transitive plus benefactive", and construction grammar sometimes calls them "load and spray constructions" or the like (e.g. Goldberg 2002).
Any road, this pretty specialized vocabulary. I think it needs to be explained as simply as possible for the benefit of non-linguists. It may also be good to mention the variety of terms used, perhaps in a footnote, for the benefit of linguistics students. Cnilep ( talk) 02:42, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
The article mentions Japanese and Polish, but most of the examples are from English and the the discussion is biased toward English grammar. Please help globalize the content by discussing transitivity and the place of transitive verbs in other languages, especially non-Indo-European ones. Cnilep ( talk) 03:57, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
I removed some description of Polish that suggested, "the definition of transitive verbs as those with one object is not universal" and offered Polish as a counter-example. That seems like a misunderstanding, or at least a difference of emphasis.
The text was added by User:Grzegorj in 2006. Grzegorz Jagodziński has since expanded his remarks on this page, which appears to be self-published work.
Jagodziński says that Polish direct objects may be marked with instrumental case, rather than the usual accusative or genitive, for some verbs. That is not the same thing as claiming that the definition of "transitive verb" does not apply in Polish. I'm not aware of anyone – certainly not the current version of this page – who defines "transitive verbs" as only those verbs with exactly one object, nor who define it in terms of particular case assignments. Cnilep ( talk) 06:11, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
Cnilep, you are a simple ignorant. All I wrote on transitives is not my self-published work. It is a well-known part of the Polish grammar easy to find in any book on the subject. This is your problem you cannot read Polish. But this does not justify you to remove anything. So please, be so kind and read for a little while anything more than English-biased grammar works, and only then remove other people editions.
Grzegorj ( talk) 18:00, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
Hi, regardless of the linguistic terminology, what about sentences like 'to die a hero('s life)'? Thanks in advance. -- Backinstadiums ( talk) 23:40, 8 March 2017 (UTC)