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Broad16, I'm amazed at the number of edits you have initiated today. Many of them are trivial; others are unhelpful; a few are useful. Just my view, of course.
Some of your edits seem to be completely arbitrary. For example: I cannot understand why you would remove from the table of interstate trams the states in which Ballarat, Melbourne and Sydney are. You have also changed "Ran in the city of" to "Network", a term I had avoided because Ballarat's tramways, wonderful though they were, were hardly a network. You similarly deleted "Melbourne's" before "Hawthorn Tramways Trust 31". Further, you deleted "(later General Motors Holden)" from "Built in Adelaide by Holden's Body Builders (later General Motors Holden)". Again: deleting "Melbourne's" from "Formerly Melbourne's Prahran and Malvern Tramways Trust". Much of what you have inserted is superfluous detail, for example the museum being opened "by Leader of the Opposition Steele Hall on 22 July 1967". Who wants to know this detail, 50 years on? Further, your reference was incomplete for people who don't know about Electric Traction.
And of course you changed the nomenclature, including in your unpunctuated caption for the first photo. The MTT invariably referred to its trams as "Type ..." (e.g "Type H"). I realise the norm among tramway enthusiasts has become "... Type", matching the word order of other Australian tramway systems such as W2 Class. There may be little wrong with that for informal use but an encyclopaedia is obliged to follow the practice of the entity that owned the system rather than current trends. Would you therefore at least reverse those edits, please?
Your final act of – let's say unhelpfulness – was to delete the entire gallery that covered all the museum's collection (other than Ballarat 34), nine of which I had garnered, with some effort, from photographers because images covered by CC BY 4.0 or similar were not available. You state as a reason, "delete, per WP:NOTAGALLERY, a link is provided to the commons gallery, this is just a replication of all 17 images". I don't understand a word of that; I think you have misinterpreted WP:NOTAGALLERY". What link to what Commons gallery?
I perceive your mindset is of someone writing for a fan magazine. Encyclopaedia articles are written for non-specialised audiences, though, at summary level. That's why I refer to "new trams" not "Flexity", give the year not full date (anyone wanting to get into that details can go to the Tram Museum St Kilda website, and don't bother with who opened it 52 years ago; and so on.
I really have to wonder why you feel the urge to flail around with these edits (albeit a few of them, e.g. the links, have been helpful) when you could have put the same energy into actually writing an article. In fact the Tramway Museum, St Kilda article is a case in point: it was some years out of date and inconsistent. Why didn't you upgrade it? Your contribution will be far more valuable than your current activity. SCHolar44 ( talk) 08:15, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
Background: Scholar44 summarised reinstatement of the gallery as follows: "... restored previously deleted gallery, mindful of the gallery of the Sydney Tramway Museum, which contains 18 photos which I believe add to the useful coverage of this type of article." Broad16, in deleting the gallery, said in the summary: "delete, still contravenes WP:NOTAGALLERY as discussed on the talk page".
Broad16, the criteria at WP:NOTGALLERY (i.e. under the heading
"Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files") don't justify your deletion of the gallery.
The inclusion of a gallery of the tram exhibits at the Tramway Museum St Kilda doesn't go anywhere near transgressing the criteria. The policy refers to Wikipedia articles being "not merely collections of ... photographs or media files with no accompanying text. They recommend "If you are interested in presenting a picture, please provide an encyclopedic context, or consider adding it to Wikimedia Commons".
The photos in the gallery are links to Wikimedia Commons. They are comparable to the images of exhibits on the Sydney Tramway Museum page. They have accompanying text and are preceded by context-setting text. They do not go beyond providing encyclopaedic context. Their captions provide factual information that isn't present in their display in Commons.
Please do not revert a third time, as I intend to invite other interested editors to contribute their views. Pending conclusion of discussion, the article should stand, with the gallery included, so that others can more readily assess it and contribute. Cheers, Simon – SCHolar44 🇦🇺 💬 at 15:15, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Broad16, I'm amazed at the number of edits you have initiated today. Many of them are trivial; others are unhelpful; a few are useful. Just my view, of course.
Some of your edits seem to be completely arbitrary. For example: I cannot understand why you would remove from the table of interstate trams the states in which Ballarat, Melbourne and Sydney are. You have also changed "Ran in the city of" to "Network", a term I had avoided because Ballarat's tramways, wonderful though they were, were hardly a network. You similarly deleted "Melbourne's" before "Hawthorn Tramways Trust 31". Further, you deleted "(later General Motors Holden)" from "Built in Adelaide by Holden's Body Builders (later General Motors Holden)". Again: deleting "Melbourne's" from "Formerly Melbourne's Prahran and Malvern Tramways Trust". Much of what you have inserted is superfluous detail, for example the museum being opened "by Leader of the Opposition Steele Hall on 22 July 1967". Who wants to know this detail, 50 years on? Further, your reference was incomplete for people who don't know about Electric Traction.
And of course you changed the nomenclature, including in your unpunctuated caption for the first photo. The MTT invariably referred to its trams as "Type ..." (e.g "Type H"). I realise the norm among tramway enthusiasts has become "... Type", matching the word order of other Australian tramway systems such as W2 Class. There may be little wrong with that for informal use but an encyclopaedia is obliged to follow the practice of the entity that owned the system rather than current trends. Would you therefore at least reverse those edits, please?
Your final act of – let's say unhelpfulness – was to delete the entire gallery that covered all the museum's collection (other than Ballarat 34), nine of which I had garnered, with some effort, from photographers because images covered by CC BY 4.0 or similar were not available. You state as a reason, "delete, per WP:NOTAGALLERY, a link is provided to the commons gallery, this is just a replication of all 17 images". I don't understand a word of that; I think you have misinterpreted WP:NOTAGALLERY". What link to what Commons gallery?
I perceive your mindset is of someone writing for a fan magazine. Encyclopaedia articles are written for non-specialised audiences, though, at summary level. That's why I refer to "new trams" not "Flexity", give the year not full date (anyone wanting to get into that details can go to the Tram Museum St Kilda website, and don't bother with who opened it 52 years ago; and so on.
I really have to wonder why you feel the urge to flail around with these edits (albeit a few of them, e.g. the links, have been helpful) when you could have put the same energy into actually writing an article. In fact the Tramway Museum, St Kilda article is a case in point: it was some years out of date and inconsistent. Why didn't you upgrade it? Your contribution will be far more valuable than your current activity. SCHolar44 ( talk) 08:15, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
Background: Scholar44 summarised reinstatement of the gallery as follows: "... restored previously deleted gallery, mindful of the gallery of the Sydney Tramway Museum, which contains 18 photos which I believe add to the useful coverage of this type of article." Broad16, in deleting the gallery, said in the summary: "delete, still contravenes WP:NOTAGALLERY as discussed on the talk page".
Broad16, the criteria at WP:NOTGALLERY (i.e. under the heading
"Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files") don't justify your deletion of the gallery.
The inclusion of a gallery of the tram exhibits at the Tramway Museum St Kilda doesn't go anywhere near transgressing the criteria. The policy refers to Wikipedia articles being "not merely collections of ... photographs or media files with no accompanying text. They recommend "If you are interested in presenting a picture, please provide an encyclopedic context, or consider adding it to Wikimedia Commons".
The photos in the gallery are links to Wikimedia Commons. They are comparable to the images of exhibits on the Sydney Tramway Museum page. They have accompanying text and are preceded by context-setting text. They do not go beyond providing encyclopaedic context. Their captions provide factual information that isn't present in their display in Commons.
Please do not revert a third time, as I intend to invite other interested editors to contribute their views. Pending conclusion of discussion, the article should stand, with the gallery included, so that others can more readily assess it and contribute. Cheers, Simon – SCHolar44 🇦🇺 💬 at 15:15, 12 June 2024 (UTC)