![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Am I wrong, or is this the northernmost tram network in the world? If so, I think it would be worth mentioning in the text.. -- 213.186.238.198 18:58, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
If anyone is active on Finnish Wikipedia (and a native speaker...), I notice that there's currently no article for fi:Spårakoff. Does anyone feel up to creating a stub-article. (Currently there's en:Spårakoff and da:Spårakoff). — Sladen ( talk) 14:13, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Somewhere in the reshuffle, the information about the Kulosaari tram ferry got dropped:
10 Helsinki–Sörnäinen–Kulosaari, tram ferry operation to the island of Kulosaari aboard a steamship 1910–1919.
This operation was (as far as I know) fairly unique/rare and I think it might be good if it can be slipped back in; there's more information out there [1] [2] for those able to parse Finnish more efficiently than I can... — Sladen ( talk) 02:35, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Although the self-made tram map is neat, is there really need for it? I'm talking about this map:
There's an official map of far better quality available via the external links. I know that we're not allowed to use that map in the article, but do we need to? -- Siipikarja 15:13, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
I think the map is very nice to have. Updating that map wouldn't be such a hugely difficult job, I've actually been meaning to do it for a while now, but more "important" things seem to always get in the way. But as long as the only available usable map is out-of-date, it might be prudent to remove it. -- Kjet 20:42, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
| | +------------+ / / / + | | -------+
Well, you get the point. Also it would be even more nice if there were individual "straight line" maps for each tram line as in the following picture:
What comes to the Swedish names, I think they should be left out, since we're dealing with English Wikipedia here. The best format for the graphics is the vector (svg) format. -- Siipikarja 13:46, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
I have now created new maps based on the style outlines laid out by Siipikarja above. And since I'm crazy, I made six different variants of the map: as it appears now (minus the temporary reroutings of lines 1 and 3), as it will appear next month after the opening of line 9, and as it will appear next year after the reroutings of lines 3B and 3T. And all of those maps have different versions in Finnish and Swedish - not because I'd have anything against Swedish, but the maps got fairly crowded even with names in just one language. Below in a gallery with al lthe different versions:
All feedback and ideas for improvements are eagerly accepted. Also, if someone who speaks better Swedish than I do has the time to go over the Swedish-language image descriptions and fix all the errors I've undoubtedly made, it would be greatly appreciated. -- Kjet ( talk · contribs) 07:46, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
As this had clearly puzzled Sladen (and undoubtedly others), let me clarify the part of rerouting 3B and 3T next year: yes, they two different "threes" will be rerouted next year so that both travel different routes, instead of traveling along the same route but in different directions. The map on the right displays the routes as they will be after the change - essentially 3B and 3T will be two separate lines that share the same end of line stops. — Kjet ( talk · contribs) 20:58, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
These are the official line colors in hexadecimal extracted from the current (30th of March 2009) HKL tram map. For future use in the article.
-- Siipikarja ♫ 13:56, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for your effort Kjet. I updated the line colors list to reflect the changes so that we have one consistent colors listing. I agree with Kjet on the naming scheme. It is no use to submit a new file each time the routes change or the picture is otherwise updated. After all, each time a new version of the picture is uploaded in Commons, the version is tagged with a time stamp making the inclusion of the dates in the file name itself redundant. However, I would not add the Swedish names to the same map but would keep them separated. The map will get too crowded if the names are included with our both official languages.
From my point of view, the ultimate goal would be to make a map in SVG format and then create versions in different languages as needed. And I'm not only talking about Finnish and Swedish here, but also languages such as English, German and French. In SVG format this would be easy for anyone to do. A simple text editor would be sufficient. Of course most of the locations would still be in Finnish as there are no foreign language equivalents. Including key locations in their native language would add value. Consider for example "Hauptbahnhof" instead of "Rautatientori". Based on this, I would name the files as, for example, Helsinki_tram_map_FI-fi, where FI is an ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 country code and fi is an ISO 639-1 language code.
An example SVG file to illustrate the ease of creating versions in different languages: Easter_Island_map-en.svg. -- Siipikarja ♫ 10:42, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
(Outdent for readability) I presume we're in agreeance then to include both Finnish and Swedish place names in the next version of the map? — Kjet ( talk · contribs) 14:44, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
I combined the two tables in the Rolling stock section to one sortable table. This took quite some time and effort to make it work. I tried my best to keep the data legitimate but some inaccuracies may have slipped in. If you have time and motivation, please verify the data.
A few words about the table:
<br />
-tags as the table becomes ugly. If the data in an individual cell seems to swell up, then reconsider should the data be in the table in the first place. Consider adding the information to the article body text or alternatively using foot notes. The table cannot and should not hold complete data but merely serve as a summary.-- Siipikarja ♫ 10:49, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
I don't know about you, but I think that the References section of this article is getting ridiculously long — especially compared to the overall length of the article. So based on Wikipedia referencing guidelines, I propose a new approach of referencing. And it goes like this. I have simply divided the single "references" section to "notes" and "references". The references done from the article link to the items in the "notes" section which in turn link to the "references" section.
In my opinion this kind of approach suits the article better than the current approach for the following reasons:
<ref name="FTS2">[[#noteFTS2|Finnish Tramway Society]]</ref>
-type referencing instead.So what do you think? It will require quite much work, is it worth all the trouble? Before you draw any conclusions, hit the Edit this page button in the example page to see the benefits in the source code.
-- Siipikarja ♫ 20:16, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Just looking at OpenStreetMap [3], this shows a new single-direction chord that I don't remember, leading from Arkadiankatu→Mannerheimintie near to . Does anyone know when this was put in and if it was put in with a specific purpose? — Sladen ( talk) 23:28, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Looking at Openstreetmap again, it appears [4] that two new chords/points have gone in at the corner of Kalevankatu/Mechelininkatu. Did anyone note when this was installed (there probably would have been some diversions of Line 6 at the time). — Sladen ( talk) 18:38, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
Today yet another new non-standard passenger service tramline opened in Helsinki, when Helsinki Expert's sightseeing line aimed at tourists begun trafficking. This now means Helsinki has three lines aimed mostly at tourists (the Sightseeing line, Museum line and Spårakoff). I started wondering, should these also be added to the list of tram lines that appears in this article and should they also be added to the route map? If they are added to the map, there is a danger of cluttering it. On the other hand as things stand, the article and the map are ignoring a portion of tram traffic in Helsinki almost completely.
One option, regarding maps, would be to keep the current map (displaying the "normal lines") as it is and make a second map displaying the "tourist lines" — Kjet ( talk · contribs) 10:58, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
"Rail-joker" is a strange translation of Jokerilinja. Is there a good reason not to translate that as "Joker (or Jokeri) line," at the very least to maintain consistency with how the other line names are translated? Orange Suede Sofa ( talk) 08:10, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
This article is almost twice as long as the main article about Helsinki. At least the history section should be moved to its own article. JIP | Talk 19:04, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
This article was recently tagged as "missing coordinates". How can we even add any coordinates to this article? It's about trams. Trams move. JIP | Talk 11:56, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Am I wrong, or is this the northernmost tram network in the world? If so, I think it would be worth mentioning in the text.. -- 213.186.238.198 18:58, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
If anyone is active on Finnish Wikipedia (and a native speaker...), I notice that there's currently no article for fi:Spårakoff. Does anyone feel up to creating a stub-article. (Currently there's en:Spårakoff and da:Spårakoff). — Sladen ( talk) 14:13, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Somewhere in the reshuffle, the information about the Kulosaari tram ferry got dropped:
10 Helsinki–Sörnäinen–Kulosaari, tram ferry operation to the island of Kulosaari aboard a steamship 1910–1919.
This operation was (as far as I know) fairly unique/rare and I think it might be good if it can be slipped back in; there's more information out there [1] [2] for those able to parse Finnish more efficiently than I can... — Sladen ( talk) 02:35, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Although the self-made tram map is neat, is there really need for it? I'm talking about this map:
There's an official map of far better quality available via the external links. I know that we're not allowed to use that map in the article, but do we need to? -- Siipikarja 15:13, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
I think the map is very nice to have. Updating that map wouldn't be such a hugely difficult job, I've actually been meaning to do it for a while now, but more "important" things seem to always get in the way. But as long as the only available usable map is out-of-date, it might be prudent to remove it. -- Kjet 20:42, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
| | +------------+ / / / + | | -------+
Well, you get the point. Also it would be even more nice if there were individual "straight line" maps for each tram line as in the following picture:
What comes to the Swedish names, I think they should be left out, since we're dealing with English Wikipedia here. The best format for the graphics is the vector (svg) format. -- Siipikarja 13:46, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
I have now created new maps based on the style outlines laid out by Siipikarja above. And since I'm crazy, I made six different variants of the map: as it appears now (minus the temporary reroutings of lines 1 and 3), as it will appear next month after the opening of line 9, and as it will appear next year after the reroutings of lines 3B and 3T. And all of those maps have different versions in Finnish and Swedish - not because I'd have anything against Swedish, but the maps got fairly crowded even with names in just one language. Below in a gallery with al lthe different versions:
All feedback and ideas for improvements are eagerly accepted. Also, if someone who speaks better Swedish than I do has the time to go over the Swedish-language image descriptions and fix all the errors I've undoubtedly made, it would be greatly appreciated. -- Kjet ( talk · contribs) 07:46, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
As this had clearly puzzled Sladen (and undoubtedly others), let me clarify the part of rerouting 3B and 3T next year: yes, they two different "threes" will be rerouted next year so that both travel different routes, instead of traveling along the same route but in different directions. The map on the right displays the routes as they will be after the change - essentially 3B and 3T will be two separate lines that share the same end of line stops. — Kjet ( talk · contribs) 20:58, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
These are the official line colors in hexadecimal extracted from the current (30th of March 2009) HKL tram map. For future use in the article.
-- Siipikarja ♫ 13:56, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for your effort Kjet. I updated the line colors list to reflect the changes so that we have one consistent colors listing. I agree with Kjet on the naming scheme. It is no use to submit a new file each time the routes change or the picture is otherwise updated. After all, each time a new version of the picture is uploaded in Commons, the version is tagged with a time stamp making the inclusion of the dates in the file name itself redundant. However, I would not add the Swedish names to the same map but would keep them separated. The map will get too crowded if the names are included with our both official languages.
From my point of view, the ultimate goal would be to make a map in SVG format and then create versions in different languages as needed. And I'm not only talking about Finnish and Swedish here, but also languages such as English, German and French. In SVG format this would be easy for anyone to do. A simple text editor would be sufficient. Of course most of the locations would still be in Finnish as there are no foreign language equivalents. Including key locations in their native language would add value. Consider for example "Hauptbahnhof" instead of "Rautatientori". Based on this, I would name the files as, for example, Helsinki_tram_map_FI-fi, where FI is an ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 country code and fi is an ISO 639-1 language code.
An example SVG file to illustrate the ease of creating versions in different languages: Easter_Island_map-en.svg. -- Siipikarja ♫ 10:42, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
(Outdent for readability) I presume we're in agreeance then to include both Finnish and Swedish place names in the next version of the map? — Kjet ( talk · contribs) 14:44, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
I combined the two tables in the Rolling stock section to one sortable table. This took quite some time and effort to make it work. I tried my best to keep the data legitimate but some inaccuracies may have slipped in. If you have time and motivation, please verify the data.
A few words about the table:
<br />
-tags as the table becomes ugly. If the data in an individual cell seems to swell up, then reconsider should the data be in the table in the first place. Consider adding the information to the article body text or alternatively using foot notes. The table cannot and should not hold complete data but merely serve as a summary.-- Siipikarja ♫ 10:49, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
I don't know about you, but I think that the References section of this article is getting ridiculously long — especially compared to the overall length of the article. So based on Wikipedia referencing guidelines, I propose a new approach of referencing. And it goes like this. I have simply divided the single "references" section to "notes" and "references". The references done from the article link to the items in the "notes" section which in turn link to the "references" section.
In my opinion this kind of approach suits the article better than the current approach for the following reasons:
<ref name="FTS2">[[#noteFTS2|Finnish Tramway Society]]</ref>
-type referencing instead.So what do you think? It will require quite much work, is it worth all the trouble? Before you draw any conclusions, hit the Edit this page button in the example page to see the benefits in the source code.
-- Siipikarja ♫ 20:16, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Just looking at OpenStreetMap [3], this shows a new single-direction chord that I don't remember, leading from Arkadiankatu→Mannerheimintie near to . Does anyone know when this was put in and if it was put in with a specific purpose? — Sladen ( talk) 23:28, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Looking at Openstreetmap again, it appears [4] that two new chords/points have gone in at the corner of Kalevankatu/Mechelininkatu. Did anyone note when this was installed (there probably would have been some diversions of Line 6 at the time). — Sladen ( talk) 18:38, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
Today yet another new non-standard passenger service tramline opened in Helsinki, when Helsinki Expert's sightseeing line aimed at tourists begun trafficking. This now means Helsinki has three lines aimed mostly at tourists (the Sightseeing line, Museum line and Spårakoff). I started wondering, should these also be added to the list of tram lines that appears in this article and should they also be added to the route map? If they are added to the map, there is a danger of cluttering it. On the other hand as things stand, the article and the map are ignoring a portion of tram traffic in Helsinki almost completely.
One option, regarding maps, would be to keep the current map (displaying the "normal lines") as it is and make a second map displaying the "tourist lines" — Kjet ( talk · contribs) 10:58, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
"Rail-joker" is a strange translation of Jokerilinja. Is there a good reason not to translate that as "Joker (or Jokeri) line," at the very least to maintain consistency with how the other line names are translated? Orange Suede Sofa ( talk) 08:10, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
This article is almost twice as long as the main article about Helsinki. At least the history section should be moved to its own article. JIP | Talk 19:04, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
This article was recently tagged as "missing coordinates". How can we even add any coordinates to this article? It's about trams. Trams move. JIP | Talk 11:56, 20 July 2014 (UTC)