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Hi, I linked to this article because it was necessary to set off the words "popular classic" in the middle of a quote, to keep it from being confusing, and (just coming upon it sight unseen and unaware of what's going on here) think it might help solve your problem in this regard. Also added the name Victor Herbert (Prolific composer remembered for Babes in Toyland by about everyone in my generation of Americans, who heard the songs in movies and in school.) under Origins, Classic Pop embraces... BruceWHain ( talk) 19:09, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
Hi user:Dickparker1933. For a start, pleae list your objections to the term "traditional pop music"? Then perhaps you could suggest an alternative. Thanks. -- Viajero 11:07, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)
what are American Standards supposed to be? this is a very myopic view of music, suggest renaming this category
I compiled a music classification for my own use back in the early 60s. Apart from other classes like jazz and folk music, I had two classes for popular music. One, of course, was pop music. The definition I had in mind was much like the current Collins Dictionary definition. music of general appeal, esp among young people, that originated as a distinctive genre in the 1950s. It is generally characterized by a strong rhythmic element and the use of electrical amplification. https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/pop-music The other class name I used, for pre-pop popular music - Gershwin, Porter, Shelton Brooks, Fred Fisher, Styne and many others - was, exactly, 'popular music'. I certainly would not have called it pop music as it in no way conformed with the definition I just quoted, I bought two guides to the subject back in the late 50s. One was 'A Guide to Popular Music' by the Brit. Peter Gammond. The other was 'A History of Popular Music' by the American David Ewen. So I was shocked when I first looked up the subject on Wiki and found it called 'Traditional Pop'; shocked because the music is different from what I grew up calling pop music. Therefore I would be far happier if 'Traditional Pop' was replaced by 'Popular Music'. Uranrising ( talk) 10:12, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
Under the heading "The advent of Rock and Roll", the second-last paragraph ends with: "... all made forays into this once shied upon territory." My understanding of the idioms involving the verb "shy" is that people "shy away from {territory, etc}" rather than "shy upon {territory, etc}". What do others think? 124.191.50.164 09:39, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
A question to ponder: Is there a last date acceptable for a song to classify as belonging to the "classic pop" genre? I'm thinking particularly of songs like The Beatles' "Till There Was You", which strikes me as very much of the same type, even though performed by a band more usually labelled "rock". Your opinions, please? 124.191.50.164 14:53, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Jobim's roots were in jazz and Brazilian folk music. With the combined influences came bosanova, which is essentially a hybrid of "cool" jazz and samba. The music has commonality with the works of Kern, Porter, etc. It has no homage to rock.
The ballads of Elton John are rock music. John is a rock singer. He phrases like The Beatles, Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, etc. As opposed to Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Jack Jones, etc. Plus, John's arrangements are performed by the rythem/keyboard instruments associated with rock, not the brass and woodwind instruments normally associated with traditional pop music.
A truer grey area is the music of Burt Bacharach.
Eelb53 ( talk) 07:45, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Do we have external sources that use either of the labels "classic pop" or "traditional pop"? If not, doesn't this article violate Wikipedia guidelines? 124.191.50.164 14:53, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
This article is in flagrant violation of WP policy, specifically WP:No original research and WP:Neutral point of view, and WP:Verifiability, as well as guidelines like WP:Reliable sources, WP:Manual of Style, and WP:How to write a good article. It has far too few sources, and is chock full of emotive, personal-opinion-pushing language more suited for People magazine. It is written pretty much in the style of a high school or freshman university essay for an English composition class. It's tone, and the leaps it makes in asserting as fact all sorts of things for which we have no cited sources, is grossly inappropriately for an encyclopedia. That said, the breadth of coverage is good. It just needs to be reined in and cleaned up. A lot. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ Contribs. 23:14, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
The problem with all of these articles that venture into the definition of pre-rock era popular music, is that they all appear written by captives of modern pop culture, with a decidedly pro-rock agenda. The music is always discussed in the context of pop culture history, and not from a musical point of view. eelb53 Eelb53 ( talk) 16:13, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
I'm not well-informed about this article's subject — but maybe the article should mention the following (which predated Ronstadt's album of standards by a decade):
I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 ( talk) 12:18, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Hopefully nobody will confuse this with the Coca-Cola Classic fiasco. ErikHaugen ( talk | contribs) 17:14, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
Traditional pop music → Traditional pop – "Music" isn't needed. We don't say " hard rock music" or " classic hip hop music". Unreal7 ( talk) 15:38, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
This
level-5 vital article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||
|
Hi, I linked to this article because it was necessary to set off the words "popular classic" in the middle of a quote, to keep it from being confusing, and (just coming upon it sight unseen and unaware of what's going on here) think it might help solve your problem in this regard. Also added the name Victor Herbert (Prolific composer remembered for Babes in Toyland by about everyone in my generation of Americans, who heard the songs in movies and in school.) under Origins, Classic Pop embraces... BruceWHain ( talk) 19:09, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
Hi user:Dickparker1933. For a start, pleae list your objections to the term "traditional pop music"? Then perhaps you could suggest an alternative. Thanks. -- Viajero 11:07, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)
what are American Standards supposed to be? this is a very myopic view of music, suggest renaming this category
I compiled a music classification for my own use back in the early 60s. Apart from other classes like jazz and folk music, I had two classes for popular music. One, of course, was pop music. The definition I had in mind was much like the current Collins Dictionary definition. music of general appeal, esp among young people, that originated as a distinctive genre in the 1950s. It is generally characterized by a strong rhythmic element and the use of electrical amplification. https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/pop-music The other class name I used, for pre-pop popular music - Gershwin, Porter, Shelton Brooks, Fred Fisher, Styne and many others - was, exactly, 'popular music'. I certainly would not have called it pop music as it in no way conformed with the definition I just quoted, I bought two guides to the subject back in the late 50s. One was 'A Guide to Popular Music' by the Brit. Peter Gammond. The other was 'A History of Popular Music' by the American David Ewen. So I was shocked when I first looked up the subject on Wiki and found it called 'Traditional Pop'; shocked because the music is different from what I grew up calling pop music. Therefore I would be far happier if 'Traditional Pop' was replaced by 'Popular Music'. Uranrising ( talk) 10:12, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
Under the heading "The advent of Rock and Roll", the second-last paragraph ends with: "... all made forays into this once shied upon territory." My understanding of the idioms involving the verb "shy" is that people "shy away from {territory, etc}" rather than "shy upon {territory, etc}". What do others think? 124.191.50.164 09:39, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
A question to ponder: Is there a last date acceptable for a song to classify as belonging to the "classic pop" genre? I'm thinking particularly of songs like The Beatles' "Till There Was You", which strikes me as very much of the same type, even though performed by a band more usually labelled "rock". Your opinions, please? 124.191.50.164 14:53, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Jobim's roots were in jazz and Brazilian folk music. With the combined influences came bosanova, which is essentially a hybrid of "cool" jazz and samba. The music has commonality with the works of Kern, Porter, etc. It has no homage to rock.
The ballads of Elton John are rock music. John is a rock singer. He phrases like The Beatles, Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, etc. As opposed to Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Jack Jones, etc. Plus, John's arrangements are performed by the rythem/keyboard instruments associated with rock, not the brass and woodwind instruments normally associated with traditional pop music.
A truer grey area is the music of Burt Bacharach.
Eelb53 ( talk) 07:45, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Do we have external sources that use either of the labels "classic pop" or "traditional pop"? If not, doesn't this article violate Wikipedia guidelines? 124.191.50.164 14:53, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
This article is in flagrant violation of WP policy, specifically WP:No original research and WP:Neutral point of view, and WP:Verifiability, as well as guidelines like WP:Reliable sources, WP:Manual of Style, and WP:How to write a good article. It has far too few sources, and is chock full of emotive, personal-opinion-pushing language more suited for People magazine. It is written pretty much in the style of a high school or freshman university essay for an English composition class. It's tone, and the leaps it makes in asserting as fact all sorts of things for which we have no cited sources, is grossly inappropriately for an encyclopedia. That said, the breadth of coverage is good. It just needs to be reined in and cleaned up. A lot. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ Contribs. 23:14, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
The problem with all of these articles that venture into the definition of pre-rock era popular music, is that they all appear written by captives of modern pop culture, with a decidedly pro-rock agenda. The music is always discussed in the context of pop culture history, and not from a musical point of view. eelb53 Eelb53 ( talk) 16:13, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
I'm not well-informed about this article's subject — but maybe the article should mention the following (which predated Ronstadt's album of standards by a decade):
I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 ( talk) 12:18, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Hopefully nobody will confuse this with the Coca-Cola Classic fiasco. ErikHaugen ( talk | contribs) 17:14, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
Traditional pop music → Traditional pop – "Music" isn't needed. We don't say " hard rock music" or " classic hip hop music". Unreal7 ( talk) 15:38, 15 February 2019 (UTC)