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"Due to their pyrotechnic payload all tracers are incendiary in nature; although incendiary tracer bullets, some incorporating white phosphorus, are more effective"
Does this actually mean anything? If so it needs rephrasing I think SeanLegassick 15:16, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
On a separate matter, bullets do not have a "flight path" because bullets do not "fly." Bullets have zero aerodynamic lift so they are, in fact, "falling" from the moment they exit the muzzle because gravity has the same effect on all objects irrespective of their horizontal motion, provided there is no aerodynamic lift involved. A bullet discharged from a horizontally oriented gun barrel will reach the ground at the exact same time as a motionless bullet dropped from the same height. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 0gravitytampabay ( talk • contribs) 18:07, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
Can someone explain how tracers can be used "to ignite fuel and aircraft tanks" as mentioned in the SAS article? Kent Wang 18:29, 1 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Yea I saw it on myth buster,they did ignite fuel. Dudtz 10/12/05 10:04 PM EST
Maybe Tracers needs a disambiguation instead of a straight redirect here, cause on Solar rotation it says The rotation constants have been measured by measuring the motion of various features ("tracers") on the solar surface., so its an Astronomy term as well. Mutante23 21:48, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
I believe decreased mass causes a faster drop in velocity; tracer rounds' greater trajectory is actually caused by a lower level of drag. Quite why this occurs I am not 100% sure. Lizardhands 16 Jan 2006 / 2252 GMT
On the bullet end of things, it's shape, speed, and mass affect its trajectory (the environment also affects trajectory, but during a single, short machine gun burst, the environmental factors remain effectively constant). Tracer rounds have the same shape and speed as ball rounds. As far as mass goes, the difference is so very tiny compared to the bullet that it has no discernible effect on its trajectory. If this minuscule difference did have a material effect, one would see two shotgun-style patterns emerge on a machine gun target - a big pattern where all the ball ammunition hits and a small pattern somewhere else where the tracer ammunition hits. After shooting many thousands of of machine gun rounds both in the day and at night, I can tell you that such a pattern does not emerge. Also, it would be completely pointless to field tracer rounds if they did have a different trajectory as it would significantly reduce a machine gunner's effectiveness. To this end, I've removed unsourced speculation about differing trajectory from this article. Any editor wanting to add to the article the notion that the trajectories are different must first reliably source their claims - as both experience and common sense dictate its otherwise. Rklawton ( talk) 22:15, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
Are tracer rounds any less lethal than conventional rounds? Robert K S 10:15, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
Tracer rounds should be very lethal, in fact it probably can be as lethal as conventional rounds. Tracers rounds carry a chemical that lights up when hot so if it hits its target, he would be killed on contact, being pierced, and of course burned up. Jordan A. Rodas —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.183.9.69 ( talk) 17:41, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
"although with most emplaced machine guns, such as the M60" - I assume "emplaced" means mounted to a solid object as part of a fortification. If so, why would the M60 be special? It can be bipod or tripod mounted, or hand carried, the same as other LMGs.
Or perhaps it means "Like the m60 above (pictured)", in which case that should be edited in.
Also, "In the air, fights rarely involve firearms. Instead, modern aircraft tend to rely on missiles."
That's an awkward way to state it. Are aircraft cannons considered "firearms"? In any case, most aircraft cannons do indeed carry tracer rounds, so this line seems unnecesary. SenorBeef 06:59, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Are these legal for civilians? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.203.162.69 ( talk) 22:05, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Your history section begins "Tracers have been used extensively in machine guns since World War I." Seemingly they were used at least two centuries earrlier, with muskets. In their history of the armies of Charles XI and XII, *Karoliner," Alf Åberg and Göte Göransson (Bra Böcker, Höganäs Sweden), 1976: page 165, description of a night scene (Dec 11, 1718) wrote: "There was firing...from the fortress, and 'ljuskulor' flew through the air." ("Man sköt på svenskarna från fästningen, och ljuskulor flög genom luften.") I can think of no other translation for 'ljuskulor' than "tracers." (Ljus = light, or candle, and "kulor" = "bullets." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.82.115.134 ( talk) 03:30, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
ALSO, History, paragraph 2, footnote references the page, not a wiki page, or outside reference to the international agreement on banning explosive ammo. 2008-04-13 T01:23 Z-7 76.170.113.73 ( talk) 08:25, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Hrrm, maybe I found something here that could fit..."light", in ye olden times (you know :-) was sometimes used interchangeably with "fire", as in "setting something alight". In de.wp, I found
Brandballen ("blaze/fire/incendiary bale/ball/bag", with "Lichtballen" ("light bale") given as an alternative name), which describes an ancient type of incendiary grenade in form of a tar impregnated sack filled with an incendiary mixture, surrounded by roping, that could be either catapulted (after manually lighting a fuse) or thrown from a mortar (where the fuse would light from the flame of the propellant charge) but not fired from a true gun, cannon or howitzer due to lack of mechanical stability (there were metal-reinforced versions
Carcass for that purpose). Sometimes they were also studded with iron tubes that held a powder charge and one or more musket balls each and would go off unpredictably to deter bystanders from attempting to douse the fire.
The other alternative would be something known today as Illumination Shells, which would presumably have been fired to shed light on the battlefield to gain a clearer view of the situation and allow targeting the adversaries.
Arno, 87.139.7.40 ( talk) 07:22, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
anyone want to write about how tracers can be used to basically scare the crap out of an enemy also? Skhatri2005 ( talk) 06:21, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Wouldn´t exactly phrase things like that. But if e.g. a minigun has been loaded with 1 tracer in each 5 rounds, when fired in darkness it will look pretty much like a Star Wars ray gun being fired. Doesn´t scare me, but looks cool. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.45.196.75 ( talk) 21:43, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
Tracers do a great job of pointing out where the bullets are coming from and where they are going to. In short, they probably help calm down members of the opposing forces by giving them actionable intelligence. On the other hand, hearing a large volume of fire from multiple indiscernible directions can be very disconcerting. In short, I think tracers have very little negative psychological effect. Fear of the unknown is always greater. However, opinions aren't useful. If someone could find some reliable studies we could use, that would be great. Rklawton ( talk) 21:51, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
Surely there should be a mention with its use in cricket commentary, chiefly by Ravi Shastri and the late Tony Greig. You could also have prominent examples in film covered here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Miscellaneousphillip ( talk • contribs) 14:21, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Tracer ammunition article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This
level-5 vital article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
"Due to their pyrotechnic payload all tracers are incendiary in nature; although incendiary tracer bullets, some incorporating white phosphorus, are more effective"
Does this actually mean anything? If so it needs rephrasing I think SeanLegassick 15:16, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
On a separate matter, bullets do not have a "flight path" because bullets do not "fly." Bullets have zero aerodynamic lift so they are, in fact, "falling" from the moment they exit the muzzle because gravity has the same effect on all objects irrespective of their horizontal motion, provided there is no aerodynamic lift involved. A bullet discharged from a horizontally oriented gun barrel will reach the ground at the exact same time as a motionless bullet dropped from the same height. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 0gravitytampabay ( talk • contribs) 18:07, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
Can someone explain how tracers can be used "to ignite fuel and aircraft tanks" as mentioned in the SAS article? Kent Wang 18:29, 1 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Yea I saw it on myth buster,they did ignite fuel. Dudtz 10/12/05 10:04 PM EST
Maybe Tracers needs a disambiguation instead of a straight redirect here, cause on Solar rotation it says The rotation constants have been measured by measuring the motion of various features ("tracers") on the solar surface., so its an Astronomy term as well. Mutante23 21:48, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
I believe decreased mass causes a faster drop in velocity; tracer rounds' greater trajectory is actually caused by a lower level of drag. Quite why this occurs I am not 100% sure. Lizardhands 16 Jan 2006 / 2252 GMT
On the bullet end of things, it's shape, speed, and mass affect its trajectory (the environment also affects trajectory, but during a single, short machine gun burst, the environmental factors remain effectively constant). Tracer rounds have the same shape and speed as ball rounds. As far as mass goes, the difference is so very tiny compared to the bullet that it has no discernible effect on its trajectory. If this minuscule difference did have a material effect, one would see two shotgun-style patterns emerge on a machine gun target - a big pattern where all the ball ammunition hits and a small pattern somewhere else where the tracer ammunition hits. After shooting many thousands of of machine gun rounds both in the day and at night, I can tell you that such a pattern does not emerge. Also, it would be completely pointless to field tracer rounds if they did have a different trajectory as it would significantly reduce a machine gunner's effectiveness. To this end, I've removed unsourced speculation about differing trajectory from this article. Any editor wanting to add to the article the notion that the trajectories are different must first reliably source their claims - as both experience and common sense dictate its otherwise. Rklawton ( talk) 22:15, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
Are tracer rounds any less lethal than conventional rounds? Robert K S 10:15, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
Tracer rounds should be very lethal, in fact it probably can be as lethal as conventional rounds. Tracers rounds carry a chemical that lights up when hot so if it hits its target, he would be killed on contact, being pierced, and of course burned up. Jordan A. Rodas —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.183.9.69 ( talk) 17:41, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
"although with most emplaced machine guns, such as the M60" - I assume "emplaced" means mounted to a solid object as part of a fortification. If so, why would the M60 be special? It can be bipod or tripod mounted, or hand carried, the same as other LMGs.
Or perhaps it means "Like the m60 above (pictured)", in which case that should be edited in.
Also, "In the air, fights rarely involve firearms. Instead, modern aircraft tend to rely on missiles."
That's an awkward way to state it. Are aircraft cannons considered "firearms"? In any case, most aircraft cannons do indeed carry tracer rounds, so this line seems unnecesary. SenorBeef 06:59, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Are these legal for civilians? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.203.162.69 ( talk) 22:05, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Your history section begins "Tracers have been used extensively in machine guns since World War I." Seemingly they were used at least two centuries earrlier, with muskets. In their history of the armies of Charles XI and XII, *Karoliner," Alf Åberg and Göte Göransson (Bra Böcker, Höganäs Sweden), 1976: page 165, description of a night scene (Dec 11, 1718) wrote: "There was firing...from the fortress, and 'ljuskulor' flew through the air." ("Man sköt på svenskarna från fästningen, och ljuskulor flög genom luften.") I can think of no other translation for 'ljuskulor' than "tracers." (Ljus = light, or candle, and "kulor" = "bullets." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.82.115.134 ( talk) 03:30, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
ALSO, History, paragraph 2, footnote references the page, not a wiki page, or outside reference to the international agreement on banning explosive ammo. 2008-04-13 T01:23 Z-7 76.170.113.73 ( talk) 08:25, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Hrrm, maybe I found something here that could fit..."light", in ye olden times (you know :-) was sometimes used interchangeably with "fire", as in "setting something alight". In de.wp, I found
Brandballen ("blaze/fire/incendiary bale/ball/bag", with "Lichtballen" ("light bale") given as an alternative name), which describes an ancient type of incendiary grenade in form of a tar impregnated sack filled with an incendiary mixture, surrounded by roping, that could be either catapulted (after manually lighting a fuse) or thrown from a mortar (where the fuse would light from the flame of the propellant charge) but not fired from a true gun, cannon or howitzer due to lack of mechanical stability (there were metal-reinforced versions
Carcass for that purpose). Sometimes they were also studded with iron tubes that held a powder charge and one or more musket balls each and would go off unpredictably to deter bystanders from attempting to douse the fire.
The other alternative would be something known today as Illumination Shells, which would presumably have been fired to shed light on the battlefield to gain a clearer view of the situation and allow targeting the adversaries.
Arno, 87.139.7.40 ( talk) 07:22, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
anyone want to write about how tracers can be used to basically scare the crap out of an enemy also? Skhatri2005 ( talk) 06:21, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Wouldn´t exactly phrase things like that. But if e.g. a minigun has been loaded with 1 tracer in each 5 rounds, when fired in darkness it will look pretty much like a Star Wars ray gun being fired. Doesn´t scare me, but looks cool. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.45.196.75 ( talk) 21:43, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
Tracers do a great job of pointing out where the bullets are coming from and where they are going to. In short, they probably help calm down members of the opposing forces by giving them actionable intelligence. On the other hand, hearing a large volume of fire from multiple indiscernible directions can be very disconcerting. In short, I think tracers have very little negative psychological effect. Fear of the unknown is always greater. However, opinions aren't useful. If someone could find some reliable studies we could use, that would be great. Rklawton ( talk) 21:51, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
Surely there should be a mention with its use in cricket commentary, chiefly by Ravi Shastri and the late Tony Greig. You could also have prominent examples in film covered here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Miscellaneousphillip ( talk • contribs) 14:21, 5 July 2015 (UTC)