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I took the link to the nicotine page to read about this substance as this article on Tourette Syndrome says that physicians caution against using it to treat Tourette's because of its carcinogenic traits. However, the nicotine page states in its introduction that the substance is not carcinogenic. An inconsistency of 'fact'-stating that perhaps should be cleared up?
The first sentence in the Experimental treatments section refers to nicotine. It quotes Swerdlow's 2005 paper (see references). His specific words are: "Consequently, drugs often reported to be effective in individual cases or case series fail in controlled trials. One notable example is nicotine, which produced profound and prolonged tic reduction in case reports, but these effects were not reproduced in the first controlled trial reported 13 years later." Unsigned user, please explain why you continue to edit the entry ? The addition of the word "patches" adds what for the reader? I will change it back. Sandy 00:47, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi all...my name is Mike DeFilippo and I just wanted to add that recent studies done at Johns Hopkins have shown nicotine to be helpful in reducing tics and helping with depression. I, for one, can vouch for this. I have attempted to quit smoking in the past and have noticed that when I am wearing the patch I do tic less. Now you have to realize that in my mind I thought that I would be a veritable tic machine if I wasn't smoking; on the contrary, before I even heard about these studies I found that wearing the nicotine patch did reduce my desire to tic. In hindsight, I realize the patch does help somewhat; it isn't a cure by any means, but it certainly helps to an extent, and I am sure the extent to which it helps will differ from person to person. I was diagnosed in 1998 at the age of 40 and have published an educational book on Tourette syndrome called Getting Personal, Stories of Life with Tourette Syndrome. Please feel free to e-mail me at any time at mike@secondchancepublishing.com.-- Mike 21:55, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't have the actual study name, but there are a couple of Web sites easily available in any search engine that do discuss them. You could check these and do a little more research on your own.
http://www.tourettes-disorder.com/therapy/nicotine.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1549392.stm
Hope this helps.
I used to think that his full name was Gilles de la Tourette. Then I found out that it was Georges Gilles de la Tourette. Then I found out (in the wiki article about him) that his full name was Georges Albert Édouard Brutus Gilles de la Tourette.
He had a very long name. How much of it should we put into this article? Maybe someone who speaks some French could help us. 206.59.61.72 22:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
Returning to the issue of verifiable and reliable sources. Because Oliver Sacks' fictionalized writings are not subject to peer review, they may need to be placed in context for a medical article. That is, the factual basis for his descriptions of fictionalized characters should be established, particularly since not all TS professionals agree with all of his views and statements about Tourette's. Attempting to establish that the fictional character "Carl Bennett" was based upon a real person, I included mention of Mort Doran in the following sentence:
Neurologist and writer Oliver Sacks describes a physician with severe TS, (Canadian Mort Doran, M.D., a pilot and surgeon in real life, although a pseudonym was used in the book), whose tics remit almost completely while he is performing surgery.
I found my reference, which is Morton L. Doran's bio from a TSA conference. He has spoken at many TSA conferences, evidenced by Google Groups posts to alt.support.tourette, the newsgroup. I don't know how to cite a conference, so I am including the information here, hoping someone will help with how to cite it.
The Tourette Syndrome Association, Inc., Connecticut Chapter
1998 Educators' Conference
Understanding and Managing Tourette Syndrome, and the Associated Disorders, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder & Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder in the Classroom.
Friday, November 6, 1998
With Keynote Speaker Morton L. Doran, MD,
Surgeon written about in
The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat by Oliver Sacks, MD
at Western Connecticut State University
Westside Campus, Danbury, CT
"This year's keynote speaker is Morton L. Doran, MD. Dr. Doran is a practicing surgeon, professor of medicine and recreational pilot who has had Tourette Syndrome since early childhood. He was featured in a book, The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat by Oliver Sacks, MD, a perceptive look at living successfully with neurobiological disorders. Dr. Doran was the featured surgeon in New Yorker magazine's article about a surgeon with TS. He is a dynamic and highly respected spokesperson for the Tourette Syndrome Association in the USA and Canada." —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
SandyGeorgia (
talk •
contribs) 16:52, 16 February 2006
Comment. I have just found out that the above bio was incorrect, and have changed the references accordingly. Carl Bennett/Mort Doran was described in The Surgeon's Life chapter of The Anthropologist from Mars, while Witty Ticcy Ray (the drummer) was described in The Man Who Mistook ... It looks like the person who prepared the above conference bio simply mixed up the two books. Here are the tables of contents from each book:
Anthropologist... TOC and The Man Who Mistook... TOC Sandy 04:21, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I'm your friendly cabal mediator. Sandy has requested mediation on this page. This isn't any kind of formal thing, well it will probably fluctuate in formality. The most important thing is that I'm not here to pass judgement or place blame, I'm just a third person who will attempt to look at your dispute in an impartial fashion and try and help you build consensus.
To the anonymous user, could you please outline your side of the story on the mediation page, thanks! :) - FrancisTyers 11:14, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
Anon, I left a message for you on your talk page about a copyright question. User_talk:206.59.61.72 Maybe we can talk about that question on your talk page ? Sandy 14:35, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
Francis, following your direction above, I've looked at numerous other pages to see how they handle External Links. They are all over the map, and I can't really find any pattern or consensus. We could use some guidance about just what Wikipedia is. Some medical articles (recently featured) have only links to large, recognized, reputable medical organizations of note. Others look like a mini-version of Google, with so many external links, including personal sites written by laypersons, that I can't discern what Wiki's policy is. In some of those cases, they have been featured articles for quite some time, so it's not clear if all of the links were added once the articles came to prominence ? Excessive external links is a recurring problem on this entry, as there have been past entries that don't meet Wiki's Reliable Sources and Verifiability criteria. Perhaps this is a more important issue with respect to Tourette's, than for example, asthma, as one of the items confronting people living with tics is the massive amount of misinformation that exists about the condition. Wiki risks becoming part of furthering that misinformation. There is also the issue of the numerous chapters and international TSA advocacy organizations. If we add an External link to one state's local chapter of the Tourette Syndrome Association, or one country's, should we then add them all, even though they all say the same thing? Then, the entry becomes a Tourette search engine. How/where can we find a means of developing a consensus on how to handle external links? Sandy 14:01, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the offer. Since we know the TS websites inside and out, we might be able to save you the work. Some questions:
1) When should I link externally? "Not very often. ... If the content is free, consider copying and wikifying it for us." There are two webpages about TS from the NIH/NIMH (government sites; hence in the public domain). How would we go about "wikifying" them? Create an entire entry with the NIH facts ? Our references link a lot to those pages, so if we could wikify them, they would be an internal link.
2) "Sites that have been cited or used as references in the creation of an article. Intellectual honesty requires that any site actually used as a reference be cited. See Wikipedia:Verifiability." The link to Roger Freeman's blog is included as a reference, and as an External Link. His blog contains explanations that are not easily available anywhere else (e.g.; the history of the myth about stimulants and tics). He is listed separately in order to explain who he is (as opposed to, not just another Dr. who put up some info). He is the head of a neuropsychiatry clinic, the author of numerous, contemparary journal-published articles, a former member of the TSA Scientific Advisory Board, and a current member of the Canadian TSFC Advisory Board. Since it's a blog, it seems that all that explanation was needed to justify why he is included ? But, he is also in the references: how do we handle that? Because he's a reference, it seemed that some explanation of who he is was needed, so he got added to the External Links.
3) "External sites can possibly violate copyright." Links to tourettes-disorder.com are often inserted. There are copyright violations on that link, and the author signs his webpage with "PhD," but followup on his claim shows that he has no valid accredited PhD in any field. In fact, according to his own statements, he is a handyman and webdesigner by trade. (Verifiable sources).
4) I'm still not sure how to handle multiple TSA chapters or international advocacy organizations that are often listed. Since the TSA USA is included in the references already, should we delete it from the External Links? When other TSA advocacy chapters or international webpages are added, should we delete them?
5) I saved all the references, justifying "famous people", documentaries, etc. on the talk page. Should those be added to the references, used inline? (When we finish this discussion, we need to talk about the whole "famous people" issue.)
6) The Tourette Syndrome Plus website is a reputable, verifiable source, non-TSA, non-governmental website about TS, written by a practicing, published professional, and highly ranked on Google. It does include alternate POV to the TSA, as the author often points out inconsistencies and inaccuracies in TSA statements. But, since it is included as a reference, should it be removed from External links? Although the website is reputable, the term used, "TS+", is not widely accepted; in fact, was recently voted as an Article for Deletion. The problem with the terminology being used in ways not intended by the author is discussed on the actual website.
7) The Tourette Spectrum Disorder Association is often added, on the idea that it provides an alternate POV. It doesn't offer any new info. There is nothing there that is "alternate POV" (they used to define the spectrum as including other conditions, not supported by medical research, but that info is no longer on their website. Perhaps they have backed down from their original claims?). "Tourette Spectrum Disorder" is the term they used to distinguish themselves from the TSA when they split over a funding issue, but they don't explain what they consider the spectrum to be on their website. Tourette's is part of the spectrum of tics disorders, and their terminology is not widely accepted medically (a Google search shows most hits on that term are hits on their website). It is a small organization, localized to Southern California, which has not expanded beyond its original boundaries since it was founded eight years ago, without a single person of note (according to Wiki Reliable Sources) on its advisory boards. Sandy 16:24, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
8) An insulting website called "Tourettes guy" is periodically inserted here by anon users. It was recently voted in Articles for Deletion, so could be deleted whenever added. Sandy 17:05, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
PS: adding on personal disclaimer. I am not a member of, or personally associated with or affiliated with any of the associations or websites listed above. I take difference, in varying degrees, with some of the information presented on all of them (including the NIH, which should update its prevalence estimates). My biggest differences are reserved for the tourettes-disorder website, and the TSDA, because of the lack of professional authorship or advisorship (as outlined in Wikipedia Verifiable Sources or Reliability). Sandy 16:56, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
Well, according to wikipedia, anything in which the author had been dead for more than 100 years (or any photograph of something like that) is in public domain. I have uploaded another image of Dr. Tourette. This is a photograph, and we can assume that Dr. Tourette is the "author" because he probably paid the photographer to take his picture, and it is impossible to know the name of the photographer. Besides, the photographer is not necessarly the "author" just as the person who does the camera work on a movie is not necessarly the director. It also said anything published before 1923 in the US is public domain. I think that considering Dr. Tourette died 102 years ago, all these images are in public domain. But maybe we should use this photograph I just uploaded, because it is not a drawing. Frankly, I don't think they had copywrite laws in France back then, but we are pretty safe with this photo.
Btar 18:34, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
[6] Ghostsandempties, I concur with you that Aykroyd was likely joking, but others have disagreed in the past -- some people actually believe the rumor, so giving the summary of the issue in NPOV helps the reader decide. You also deleted the clarification about the Mozart rumor, which was fueled by Wikipedia entries and is now well established on the internet, and the context of sociological and cultural issues, which was set up to lend itself to future improvements in the article. These items have been discussed with other editors. How about bringing such large content deletions to the talk page, to develop consensus for improving the article?
Also, your addition of the inaccurate profanity, "A musical about Tourette's, In My #*$@! Life," looks like vandalism, as the name of the musical was "In My Life." Sandy 02:46, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Colonel Marksman 04:02, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
(Will delete this last add as soon as someone contacts me) -- Does anyone know anyone I can contact about my tic disorders? E-mail me at colmarksman@msn.com if you do! Colonel Marksman 04:04, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
I suffer from Tourette’s syndrome, and was wondering if any one would like to start a 'famous people' list of fellow suffers? It might be something of interest for those that have more then mild TS, to see what people in history have achieved with the disorder. I would put my self on the list because I am the CEO of a multi million dollar business, but other people like sports stars, and military veterans might also help, seeing both require high control of the tic's. -- Amckern 16:17, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
I've read elsewhere that a few TS people experience coprographia. Is this worth addressing? Ghosts&empties 02:54, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
I have TS people and my friends often tell me about something that was said on TV shows on TS. Recently, there has been a lot of stuff in the media about miracle cures for TS involving brain surgury. This procedure seems to be quite risky and I don't really think 99.9% of the cases of TS are bad enough to warrent brain surgury, even if this was a procedure that is eventually approved by the FDA for TS.
Montel Williams recently had a "miracle cure," and that is what people want to see, but the thing I dislike about all this is that it makes TS look like something that you need brain surgury for. TS is not like Parkinson's, which is degeranative and fatal.
I think something should be said about this procedure, in case people see it on TV and decide too look it up. I don't think this will be giving too much publicity to this, because it has gotten plenty of publicity.
This is an encycylopedia article and we should assume that the peopke reading this article are mostly intelligent laymen, not doctors. This is not the PDR. I think we should briefly explain to the intelligent layment what the procedure is first of all. Is this "miracle cure" the same thing as P.A.N.D.A.S. or deep brain stimulation? Because I don't really what those two things are. So I think it would be a good idea to briefly explain what this procedure is that keeps getting all the news attention, WHY it is dangerous and is unlikely to become widespread, and most importantly, why most cases of TS should never need such a drastic treatment as surgery of the brain. Karmak
The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and may or may not be accurate for the article in question.
between a number and the unit of measurement. For example, instead of 18mm, use 18 mm, which when you are editing the page, should look like: 18 mm.You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions (and the javascript checklist; see the last paragraph in the lead) for further ideas. Thanks, Andy t 21:27, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Why add Tourette and Asperger's to a DISEASE category when people agree it is not a disease? Could we have some consistence, please? -- Rdos 14:03, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/tourette/default.htm
Public domain? Can anyone help me figure out if there are copyright issues, and figure out how to load it up to Wiki ? Sandy 06:18, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
{{Template:PD-USGov-HHS-CDC}}
and the URL of the page in the summary. Click on ‘Upload file’. That is all. —
xyzzy
n 07:08, 10 July 2006 (UTC)You know, I've read the page for Tourette's syndrome and I'm still none the wiser. Perhaps someone who knows the subject well could explain (in English) exactly what a Tourette's syndrome sufferer suffers from. Many thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.213.161.145 ( talk • contribs) 15:05 27 August 2006 UTC AOL.
Why not a label for Tourette syndrom Wikipedians? Im sure there are more than a few "Shackey Jakes" out there who can explain whats up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.163.100.13 ( talk • contribs) 23:32 29 August 2006 UTC AOL.
I went through this and made some changes. I removed the sentence "Probabilistic models may yield better results in finding the cause, as the autosomal dominant inheritance model has not been validated." since even as a biochemist I'm unclear as to what this means. Otherwise, an excellent and thorough article. TimVickers 20:37, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
The second image (the one that is a totally naff collage of pics) should not be on there, it looks totally unprofessional and like a 5 year old did it in paint! Rob.derosa 04:15, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
The last two are major issues that should be a priority to fix before a WP:FAC nomination. Jkelly 15:35, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
I disagree with User:Wouterstomp that this photo combined with the legend beneath the photo, should be removed on the grounds that it "doesn't add anything to the article". I say that it is a humanizing touch to a condition that is confusing and baffling, little understood. Given that the US Dept of Health and Human services commissioned it to help defray fear and prejudice directed at those who have Tourette's. As Sandy pointed out, otherwise there are only moldy old photos of chaps in powdered wigs hundreds of years ago. And a cartoon brain to make a visual break in a long page, but which does not add at all to the understanding of how the brain is involved. So unless someone comes up with something better, I say it stays. After all, I have Tourette's and I happen to think the picture should be exactly where it is. Talk it out here, don't just delete it. 205.188.117.73 09:31, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
I have a very debilitating manifestation of Tourettes that makes it virtually impossible for me to leave the house - due to the strong taboo attatched to my main verbal tic, which is to let out a shout of the n-word (particularly when I get anxious or stressed). Due to this being an extremely taboo racial slur I feel unable to risk causing the kind of offense that I would by going out, particularly when I could come across black people in daily life. Does anyone else have a particularly bad manifestation that makes a social life almost impossible? I read about a poor man whose tic was related to child-rape - even worse than my own, probably. The problem is that the more taboo a word or phrase is, and the earlier you pick it up, the more it feeds into the Tourettes. I hope there is one day a cure because my life is miserable. 195.93.21.129
Your life is miserable due to the non-awarness of this in public. But how but you yourself take measures. Print yourself some white shirts with a significant message on the front and back, like "tourette! sorry for the cursing". At the least you get peoples neuro circuits fired up in that they are contradicted with new experience - and start to ponder instead of immediatly categorizing you as insane, because you their brain tells them it is routine just look away, avoid, ignore. The medication out there works for some to curb the symtpoms but only to about 50% but that is already a huge step forward. And go see some psychotherapy because it is not worth wasting your life for that. Frankly however there are situations where i couldn`t tolerate verbal tics namely during lectures etc, so it is an enormous burden for anyone - but i think ....on the street, who cares. It provides some diversity. Don`t hold back but be aware that in some situations you gotta realize you have to take measures yourself. E.g. you could gag yourself if you attend a lecture or something like that. You`ll see humans are quite tolerant and caring once they realize who you are. Slicky 16:23, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
I have some suggestions:
Anyway, a perfectly referenced, well-written article which, in my opinion, should be FAC. NCurse work 06:45, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
I will take the article temporarily out of use this morning, to address the issues above. I will look at Tony's inline comments, review the additions needed from NCurse's comments, and repair the short, stubby paragraphs introduced by the anon AOL editor. Then, it would be helpful if other editors would suggest changes on the talk page, until Tony is done with the copy edit, so we don't get crossed up. Thanks, Sandy 14:48, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 10 |
I took the link to the nicotine page to read about this substance as this article on Tourette Syndrome says that physicians caution against using it to treat Tourette's because of its carcinogenic traits. However, the nicotine page states in its introduction that the substance is not carcinogenic. An inconsistency of 'fact'-stating that perhaps should be cleared up?
The first sentence in the Experimental treatments section refers to nicotine. It quotes Swerdlow's 2005 paper (see references). His specific words are: "Consequently, drugs often reported to be effective in individual cases or case series fail in controlled trials. One notable example is nicotine, which produced profound and prolonged tic reduction in case reports, but these effects were not reproduced in the first controlled trial reported 13 years later." Unsigned user, please explain why you continue to edit the entry ? The addition of the word "patches" adds what for the reader? I will change it back. Sandy 00:47, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi all...my name is Mike DeFilippo and I just wanted to add that recent studies done at Johns Hopkins have shown nicotine to be helpful in reducing tics and helping with depression. I, for one, can vouch for this. I have attempted to quit smoking in the past and have noticed that when I am wearing the patch I do tic less. Now you have to realize that in my mind I thought that I would be a veritable tic machine if I wasn't smoking; on the contrary, before I even heard about these studies I found that wearing the nicotine patch did reduce my desire to tic. In hindsight, I realize the patch does help somewhat; it isn't a cure by any means, but it certainly helps to an extent, and I am sure the extent to which it helps will differ from person to person. I was diagnosed in 1998 at the age of 40 and have published an educational book on Tourette syndrome called Getting Personal, Stories of Life with Tourette Syndrome. Please feel free to e-mail me at any time at mike@secondchancepublishing.com.-- Mike 21:55, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't have the actual study name, but there are a couple of Web sites easily available in any search engine that do discuss them. You could check these and do a little more research on your own.
http://www.tourettes-disorder.com/therapy/nicotine.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1549392.stm
Hope this helps.
I used to think that his full name was Gilles de la Tourette. Then I found out that it was Georges Gilles de la Tourette. Then I found out (in the wiki article about him) that his full name was Georges Albert Édouard Brutus Gilles de la Tourette.
He had a very long name. How much of it should we put into this article? Maybe someone who speaks some French could help us. 206.59.61.72 22:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
Returning to the issue of verifiable and reliable sources. Because Oliver Sacks' fictionalized writings are not subject to peer review, they may need to be placed in context for a medical article. That is, the factual basis for his descriptions of fictionalized characters should be established, particularly since not all TS professionals agree with all of his views and statements about Tourette's. Attempting to establish that the fictional character "Carl Bennett" was based upon a real person, I included mention of Mort Doran in the following sentence:
Neurologist and writer Oliver Sacks describes a physician with severe TS, (Canadian Mort Doran, M.D., a pilot and surgeon in real life, although a pseudonym was used in the book), whose tics remit almost completely while he is performing surgery.
I found my reference, which is Morton L. Doran's bio from a TSA conference. He has spoken at many TSA conferences, evidenced by Google Groups posts to alt.support.tourette, the newsgroup. I don't know how to cite a conference, so I am including the information here, hoping someone will help with how to cite it.
The Tourette Syndrome Association, Inc., Connecticut Chapter
1998 Educators' Conference
Understanding and Managing Tourette Syndrome, and the Associated Disorders, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder & Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder in the Classroom.
Friday, November 6, 1998
With Keynote Speaker Morton L. Doran, MD,
Surgeon written about in
The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat by Oliver Sacks, MD
at Western Connecticut State University
Westside Campus, Danbury, CT
"This year's keynote speaker is Morton L. Doran, MD. Dr. Doran is a practicing surgeon, professor of medicine and recreational pilot who has had Tourette Syndrome since early childhood. He was featured in a book, The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat by Oliver Sacks, MD, a perceptive look at living successfully with neurobiological disorders. Dr. Doran was the featured surgeon in New Yorker magazine's article about a surgeon with TS. He is a dynamic and highly respected spokesperson for the Tourette Syndrome Association in the USA and Canada." —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
SandyGeorgia (
talk •
contribs) 16:52, 16 February 2006
Comment. I have just found out that the above bio was incorrect, and have changed the references accordingly. Carl Bennett/Mort Doran was described in The Surgeon's Life chapter of The Anthropologist from Mars, while Witty Ticcy Ray (the drummer) was described in The Man Who Mistook ... It looks like the person who prepared the above conference bio simply mixed up the two books. Here are the tables of contents from each book:
Anthropologist... TOC and The Man Who Mistook... TOC Sandy 04:21, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I'm your friendly cabal mediator. Sandy has requested mediation on this page. This isn't any kind of formal thing, well it will probably fluctuate in formality. The most important thing is that I'm not here to pass judgement or place blame, I'm just a third person who will attempt to look at your dispute in an impartial fashion and try and help you build consensus.
To the anonymous user, could you please outline your side of the story on the mediation page, thanks! :) - FrancisTyers 11:14, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
Anon, I left a message for you on your talk page about a copyright question. User_talk:206.59.61.72 Maybe we can talk about that question on your talk page ? Sandy 14:35, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
Francis, following your direction above, I've looked at numerous other pages to see how they handle External Links. They are all over the map, and I can't really find any pattern or consensus. We could use some guidance about just what Wikipedia is. Some medical articles (recently featured) have only links to large, recognized, reputable medical organizations of note. Others look like a mini-version of Google, with so many external links, including personal sites written by laypersons, that I can't discern what Wiki's policy is. In some of those cases, they have been featured articles for quite some time, so it's not clear if all of the links were added once the articles came to prominence ? Excessive external links is a recurring problem on this entry, as there have been past entries that don't meet Wiki's Reliable Sources and Verifiability criteria. Perhaps this is a more important issue with respect to Tourette's, than for example, asthma, as one of the items confronting people living with tics is the massive amount of misinformation that exists about the condition. Wiki risks becoming part of furthering that misinformation. There is also the issue of the numerous chapters and international TSA advocacy organizations. If we add an External link to one state's local chapter of the Tourette Syndrome Association, or one country's, should we then add them all, even though they all say the same thing? Then, the entry becomes a Tourette search engine. How/where can we find a means of developing a consensus on how to handle external links? Sandy 14:01, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the offer. Since we know the TS websites inside and out, we might be able to save you the work. Some questions:
1) When should I link externally? "Not very often. ... If the content is free, consider copying and wikifying it for us." There are two webpages about TS from the NIH/NIMH (government sites; hence in the public domain). How would we go about "wikifying" them? Create an entire entry with the NIH facts ? Our references link a lot to those pages, so if we could wikify them, they would be an internal link.
2) "Sites that have been cited or used as references in the creation of an article. Intellectual honesty requires that any site actually used as a reference be cited. See Wikipedia:Verifiability." The link to Roger Freeman's blog is included as a reference, and as an External Link. His blog contains explanations that are not easily available anywhere else (e.g.; the history of the myth about stimulants and tics). He is listed separately in order to explain who he is (as opposed to, not just another Dr. who put up some info). He is the head of a neuropsychiatry clinic, the author of numerous, contemparary journal-published articles, a former member of the TSA Scientific Advisory Board, and a current member of the Canadian TSFC Advisory Board. Since it's a blog, it seems that all that explanation was needed to justify why he is included ? But, he is also in the references: how do we handle that? Because he's a reference, it seemed that some explanation of who he is was needed, so he got added to the External Links.
3) "External sites can possibly violate copyright." Links to tourettes-disorder.com are often inserted. There are copyright violations on that link, and the author signs his webpage with "PhD," but followup on his claim shows that he has no valid accredited PhD in any field. In fact, according to his own statements, he is a handyman and webdesigner by trade. (Verifiable sources).
4) I'm still not sure how to handle multiple TSA chapters or international advocacy organizations that are often listed. Since the TSA USA is included in the references already, should we delete it from the External Links? When other TSA advocacy chapters or international webpages are added, should we delete them?
5) I saved all the references, justifying "famous people", documentaries, etc. on the talk page. Should those be added to the references, used inline? (When we finish this discussion, we need to talk about the whole "famous people" issue.)
6) The Tourette Syndrome Plus website is a reputable, verifiable source, non-TSA, non-governmental website about TS, written by a practicing, published professional, and highly ranked on Google. It does include alternate POV to the TSA, as the author often points out inconsistencies and inaccuracies in TSA statements. But, since it is included as a reference, should it be removed from External links? Although the website is reputable, the term used, "TS+", is not widely accepted; in fact, was recently voted as an Article for Deletion. The problem with the terminology being used in ways not intended by the author is discussed on the actual website.
7) The Tourette Spectrum Disorder Association is often added, on the idea that it provides an alternate POV. It doesn't offer any new info. There is nothing there that is "alternate POV" (they used to define the spectrum as including other conditions, not supported by medical research, but that info is no longer on their website. Perhaps they have backed down from their original claims?). "Tourette Spectrum Disorder" is the term they used to distinguish themselves from the TSA when they split over a funding issue, but they don't explain what they consider the spectrum to be on their website. Tourette's is part of the spectrum of tics disorders, and their terminology is not widely accepted medically (a Google search shows most hits on that term are hits on their website). It is a small organization, localized to Southern California, which has not expanded beyond its original boundaries since it was founded eight years ago, without a single person of note (according to Wiki Reliable Sources) on its advisory boards. Sandy 16:24, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
8) An insulting website called "Tourettes guy" is periodically inserted here by anon users. It was recently voted in Articles for Deletion, so could be deleted whenever added. Sandy 17:05, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
PS: adding on personal disclaimer. I am not a member of, or personally associated with or affiliated with any of the associations or websites listed above. I take difference, in varying degrees, with some of the information presented on all of them (including the NIH, which should update its prevalence estimates). My biggest differences are reserved for the tourettes-disorder website, and the TSDA, because of the lack of professional authorship or advisorship (as outlined in Wikipedia Verifiable Sources or Reliability). Sandy 16:56, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
Well, according to wikipedia, anything in which the author had been dead for more than 100 years (or any photograph of something like that) is in public domain. I have uploaded another image of Dr. Tourette. This is a photograph, and we can assume that Dr. Tourette is the "author" because he probably paid the photographer to take his picture, and it is impossible to know the name of the photographer. Besides, the photographer is not necessarly the "author" just as the person who does the camera work on a movie is not necessarly the director. It also said anything published before 1923 in the US is public domain. I think that considering Dr. Tourette died 102 years ago, all these images are in public domain. But maybe we should use this photograph I just uploaded, because it is not a drawing. Frankly, I don't think they had copywrite laws in France back then, but we are pretty safe with this photo.
Btar 18:34, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
[6] Ghostsandempties, I concur with you that Aykroyd was likely joking, but others have disagreed in the past -- some people actually believe the rumor, so giving the summary of the issue in NPOV helps the reader decide. You also deleted the clarification about the Mozart rumor, which was fueled by Wikipedia entries and is now well established on the internet, and the context of sociological and cultural issues, which was set up to lend itself to future improvements in the article. These items have been discussed with other editors. How about bringing such large content deletions to the talk page, to develop consensus for improving the article?
Also, your addition of the inaccurate profanity, "A musical about Tourette's, In My #*$@! Life," looks like vandalism, as the name of the musical was "In My Life." Sandy 02:46, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Colonel Marksman 04:02, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
(Will delete this last add as soon as someone contacts me) -- Does anyone know anyone I can contact about my tic disorders? E-mail me at colmarksman@msn.com if you do! Colonel Marksman 04:04, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
I suffer from Tourette’s syndrome, and was wondering if any one would like to start a 'famous people' list of fellow suffers? It might be something of interest for those that have more then mild TS, to see what people in history have achieved with the disorder. I would put my self on the list because I am the CEO of a multi million dollar business, but other people like sports stars, and military veterans might also help, seeing both require high control of the tic's. -- Amckern 16:17, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
I've read elsewhere that a few TS people experience coprographia. Is this worth addressing? Ghosts&empties 02:54, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
I have TS people and my friends often tell me about something that was said on TV shows on TS. Recently, there has been a lot of stuff in the media about miracle cures for TS involving brain surgury. This procedure seems to be quite risky and I don't really think 99.9% of the cases of TS are bad enough to warrent brain surgury, even if this was a procedure that is eventually approved by the FDA for TS.
Montel Williams recently had a "miracle cure," and that is what people want to see, but the thing I dislike about all this is that it makes TS look like something that you need brain surgury for. TS is not like Parkinson's, which is degeranative and fatal.
I think something should be said about this procedure, in case people see it on TV and decide too look it up. I don't think this will be giving too much publicity to this, because it has gotten plenty of publicity.
This is an encycylopedia article and we should assume that the peopke reading this article are mostly intelligent laymen, not doctors. This is not the PDR. I think we should briefly explain to the intelligent layment what the procedure is first of all. Is this "miracle cure" the same thing as P.A.N.D.A.S. or deep brain stimulation? Because I don't really what those two things are. So I think it would be a good idea to briefly explain what this procedure is that keeps getting all the news attention, WHY it is dangerous and is unlikely to become widespread, and most importantly, why most cases of TS should never need such a drastic treatment as surgery of the brain. Karmak
The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and may or may not be accurate for the article in question.
between a number and the unit of measurement. For example, instead of 18mm, use 18 mm, which when you are editing the page, should look like: 18 mm.You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions (and the javascript checklist; see the last paragraph in the lead) for further ideas. Thanks, Andy t 21:27, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Why add Tourette and Asperger's to a DISEASE category when people agree it is not a disease? Could we have some consistence, please? -- Rdos 14:03, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/tourette/default.htm
Public domain? Can anyone help me figure out if there are copyright issues, and figure out how to load it up to Wiki ? Sandy 06:18, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
{{Template:PD-USGov-HHS-CDC}}
and the URL of the page in the summary. Click on ‘Upload file’. That is all. —
xyzzy
n 07:08, 10 July 2006 (UTC)You know, I've read the page for Tourette's syndrome and I'm still none the wiser. Perhaps someone who knows the subject well could explain (in English) exactly what a Tourette's syndrome sufferer suffers from. Many thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.213.161.145 ( talk • contribs) 15:05 27 August 2006 UTC AOL.
Why not a label for Tourette syndrom Wikipedians? Im sure there are more than a few "Shackey Jakes" out there who can explain whats up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.163.100.13 ( talk • contribs) 23:32 29 August 2006 UTC AOL.
I went through this and made some changes. I removed the sentence "Probabilistic models may yield better results in finding the cause, as the autosomal dominant inheritance model has not been validated." since even as a biochemist I'm unclear as to what this means. Otherwise, an excellent and thorough article. TimVickers 20:37, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
The second image (the one that is a totally naff collage of pics) should not be on there, it looks totally unprofessional and like a 5 year old did it in paint! Rob.derosa 04:15, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
The last two are major issues that should be a priority to fix before a WP:FAC nomination. Jkelly 15:35, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
I disagree with User:Wouterstomp that this photo combined with the legend beneath the photo, should be removed on the grounds that it "doesn't add anything to the article". I say that it is a humanizing touch to a condition that is confusing and baffling, little understood. Given that the US Dept of Health and Human services commissioned it to help defray fear and prejudice directed at those who have Tourette's. As Sandy pointed out, otherwise there are only moldy old photos of chaps in powdered wigs hundreds of years ago. And a cartoon brain to make a visual break in a long page, but which does not add at all to the understanding of how the brain is involved. So unless someone comes up with something better, I say it stays. After all, I have Tourette's and I happen to think the picture should be exactly where it is. Talk it out here, don't just delete it. 205.188.117.73 09:31, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
I have a very debilitating manifestation of Tourettes that makes it virtually impossible for me to leave the house - due to the strong taboo attatched to my main verbal tic, which is to let out a shout of the n-word (particularly when I get anxious or stressed). Due to this being an extremely taboo racial slur I feel unable to risk causing the kind of offense that I would by going out, particularly when I could come across black people in daily life. Does anyone else have a particularly bad manifestation that makes a social life almost impossible? I read about a poor man whose tic was related to child-rape - even worse than my own, probably. The problem is that the more taboo a word or phrase is, and the earlier you pick it up, the more it feeds into the Tourettes. I hope there is one day a cure because my life is miserable. 195.93.21.129
Your life is miserable due to the non-awarness of this in public. But how but you yourself take measures. Print yourself some white shirts with a significant message on the front and back, like "tourette! sorry for the cursing". At the least you get peoples neuro circuits fired up in that they are contradicted with new experience - and start to ponder instead of immediatly categorizing you as insane, because you their brain tells them it is routine just look away, avoid, ignore. The medication out there works for some to curb the symtpoms but only to about 50% but that is already a huge step forward. And go see some psychotherapy because it is not worth wasting your life for that. Frankly however there are situations where i couldn`t tolerate verbal tics namely during lectures etc, so it is an enormous burden for anyone - but i think ....on the street, who cares. It provides some diversity. Don`t hold back but be aware that in some situations you gotta realize you have to take measures yourself. E.g. you could gag yourself if you attend a lecture or something like that. You`ll see humans are quite tolerant and caring once they realize who you are. Slicky 16:23, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
I have some suggestions:
Anyway, a perfectly referenced, well-written article which, in my opinion, should be FAC. NCurse work 06:45, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
I will take the article temporarily out of use this morning, to address the issues above. I will look at Tony's inline comments, review the additions needed from NCurse's comments, and repair the short, stubby paragraphs introduced by the anon AOL editor. Then, it would be helpful if other editors would suggest changes on the talk page, until Tony is done with the copy edit, so we don't get crossed up. Thanks, Sandy 14:48, 17 September 2006 (UTC)