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This is the city that the pirates were destroying in the Pirates of the Caribbean ride and the city that Jack and Will go to in Curse of the Black Pearl, right? -- VolatileChemical 22:43, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
Is the island commonly called by it's Spanish name by English speakers? I would have expected the French name, since it's part of Haiti. User:Peter Grey 10:23, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Wouldn't it be more correctly known as the 'Treaty of Regensburg' in English? The name 'Ratisbon' is actually the Latin name for Regensburg. - ( Aidan Work 01:24, 11 December 2005 (UTC))
Some information about the isle today would be interesting. Siarching in Google Earthyou find some roads there, and looking at that map you also find them, together with some probably french names, maybe place names. What places are there? How many inhabitans?-- Hun2 17:25, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
The result of the debate was don't move. — Nightst a llion (?) Seen this already? 20:02, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I am curious about this too. I am shocked with the popularity of pirates that the island isn't made into a historical site, unless there is nothing left. Haiti being such a poor country could use it to build up tourism. Laytonc32 Jan 20 2007
I filed a request to move the page because apparently I am too new a user to do it myself. I feel it's important, because the island has not been officially known as Tortuga since 1697. Every Haitian knows it only as Île de la Tortue. I am Haitian by marriage, and frankly I was shocked to see the title of this article. I do not believe that a simple redirect is sufficient here. I think the redirect should be from Tortuga, not from the french name.
I notice that the rule seems to be to translate all place names wherever possible. Therefore, on the Move Request page, I have requested either "La Tortue (island)" or "Tortoise Island". There was only one field for the requested name, so hopefully the admin will notice the strange combination and not give us an article with both names in the title! Obviously that would not be correct. Fowler Pierre 00:41, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
As for determining whether "Tortuga Island" or "Tortise Island" or "Tortue Island" or "Ile de la Tortue" is the most common name used in English, I tried various permutations in Google, and as far as I can tell, Tortuga is the most common. And my counts exclude the many cases where "Tortuga" is mentioned by itself. The collocation "Tortuga Island" is frequent enough that it is clear that "Tortuga" is being used as a name.... But of course, if you have evidence to the contrary, be sure to share it with us. -- Macrakis 12:46, 8 April 2006 (UTC), updated 14:25
hits | |
---|---|
Haiti Tortue "Turtle Island" [3] | 145 |
Haiti Tortuga "Turtle Island" [4] | 298 |
Haiti Tortue "Tortoise Island" [5] | 46 |
Haiti Tortuga "Tortoise Island" [6] | 106 |
Haiti "Turtle Island" | 51,200 |
Haiti "Tortoise Island" | 130 |
Haiti "Ile de la Tortue" | 33,200 |
Haiti "Tortue Island" | 349 |
Haiti "Isla Tortuga" | 837 |
Haiti "Tortuga Island" | 23,200 |
Haiti "Island of the Turtle" | 94 |
The Jacques Rozier movie Les Naufrages de l'Ile de la Tortue (1976) gets 97 Google hits under for its English title The Castaways of Turtle Island. Gene Nygaard 16:20, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Please feel free to add any specific usage to this list: Gene Nygaard 15:02, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Gene, I wonder what the right way to weight reference sources (encyclopedias, gazetteers, maps) is vs. popular usage. Some reference sources of course have policies which conflict with Wikipedia's policy. For example, the Encyclopedia of Islam always uses the Arabic or Ottoman Turkish form of placenames as the headword. Other reference sources always prefer the local name, with the common English name in parentheses, e.g. Athina (Athens). Note below that the Random House Dictionary isn't even internally consistent -- they licensed the atlas part from C.S.Hammond. -- Macrakis 02:03, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
Tortuga:
Tortue:
Turtle or Tortoise:
Anything else:
Towards the end of the article is this sentence: "At this same time, an English pirate started to promote himself and invite the pirates on the island of Tortuga to set sail under him." Why is he not named? Will someone identify this pirate by name?
According to a various websites that were confirmed on Google Earth, the location of Tortuga is not northwest of Haiti. It is actually located directly west of Isla Margarita, just north of Venezuela. This should be corrected within the article.
Ok, it's a big hit, good for them, but I don't think this is appropriate. Can we put it on the Johnny Depp page or something? Tahrlis 02:26, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
I concur, a mention might be made, but the whole "spoiler" section is completely out of the enciclopedian approach an article like this should have. I'm modifying it.
The Tortuga article that was on here before had no reference to location that the article was speaking about. [8] was the way it looked before I changed anything.
"Tortuga" was just dumped into the common "Caribbean stubs" which if something is in there, at times it's impossible to know location of that item. Mainly-- because many spots in the Caribbean have the same name over-and-over-and-over again. Example: the "Dominican" Republic and "Dominica" (Both of which are Republics....) Or-- Basseterre (Saint Kitts and Nevis) and Basse-terre, (Guadeloupe)... I thought that Tortuga was "Tortue" so I had filed it under "Haiti" because the article also mentioned Hispaniola and I know there's no "Tortuga" Island anywhere from Trinidad and Tobago up until Montserrat with certainty. I didn't think about the possibility of small South American islands close to Venezuela.
At the time I was trying to clean up Caribbeaan stubs namespace because back then, Caribbean articles would get targeted a lot for deletion if they weren't added to fast enough. E.g. within 2 months. So by filing stubs under their country-- that usually sped-up the time it took to get someone knowledgable about the place to add to that article before the Delete posse on Wikipedia could hit it. As such, I think the Tortuga article then might possibly have been about Venezuela's *shrug*... But I can't say with certainty because the Tortuga article then had no reference to location and was just dumped into the main gernal Caribbean stubs when it was created. CaribDigita 02:14, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
I was wondering if there is anything new about the island now? With the new interest in Pirates, I am surprised something isn't done with the island. Can sites be built for tourists? Is it feasable? Or is Haiti just so poor that the have other issues they need to worry about? I am just curious since I can find so little about the island and what it looks like today.-- Laytonc32 04:22, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Laytonc32 ( talk • contribs) 04:20, 21 January 2007 (UTC).
Please do not add templates and categories for fictional universes to real articles even if they correspond to each other. If if you see a need to describe Tortuga from that perspective, please move the content back to Tortuga (Pirates of the Caribbean), where it was before added here. -- Tikiwont 08:10, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
On another Note: "By 1640, the buccaneers of Tortuga were calling themselves the Brethren of the Coast." "Brethren of the Coast" redirects to the fictional "Brethren Court". Slightly funny, since I thought I was reading real history. :) As I don't know anything about this topic I wouldn't know what to change, but i just thought i let you know. Gehweg 12:02, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
I was searching Google Earth when i noticed a strange object marked on tortuga. It looks possibly like a shipwreck but i cant be sure, anyone know what it is? its in the North part of the island in the middle on the coast. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.205.70.254 ( talk) 00:46, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
I have put the tag "citation needed" to the sentence saying that tortuga was discovered by europeans... I mean, nobody lives there before? nobody knew this island before Colombus? This is absurd, or at least too much european-centric. Wikipedia is global project, so please reference a source before saying that someone discovered someplace when very probably autochthonous knew this place before. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.84.160.154 ( talk) 14:37, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
I've found some links that might add up to the verifiability of this article:
62.107.237.72 ( talk) 09:01, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
Being that this is an island of Haiti, which uses French for names, film, books etc. I believe it should be called Île de la Tortue and Turtle Island in the description in English. From the references above, it is clear that there are sources that refer to its French name in its earliest publications in English. Île de la Tortue is in the first Haitian constitution written in French, not in the Spanish Tortuga. Turtle Island and Île de la Tortue, had the most Google hits; 1 and 2 respectively. See Île-à-Vache (Cow Island) - The same situation applies here as it is properly categorized in French not Spanish. Why should it be any different here? In short, it should not. Consider a possible move. Savvyjack23 ( talk) 23:18, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
Actually the Haitian constitution names it La Tortue similar case to La Gonâve which is listed as Gonâve Island on Wikipedia. Perhaps it should be renamed to Tortue Island which the native name Île de la Tortue be inserted as its native name. Also, under the name Tortue Island, there would be only one with no need to add , Haiti after it. It is unique to Haiti. Haitian constitution here [9] Savvyjack23 ( talk) 23:31, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
There are 8 other islands with the name Tortuga and they are all from Spanish speaking nations, with the exception of Southern Florida and Fort Jefferson (Between the Gulf of Mexico and the Keys); which are both heavily influenced by Spanish speakers. Surely, Haiti's island doesn't fit that bill being that it is a French speaking nation with the world Tortue in its constitution. The question I have is why this wasn't realized sooner, or if it was how isn't this argument compelling enough to get it right?
The other Tortuga islands include:
Therefore, Tortue Island would be most correct (with the exception of La Tortue), with all other languages (Spanish etc.) in the description, though with a bit more emphasis for Turtle Island for the English speakers being that this is an English article; possibly added to the description bar. Savvyjack23 ( talk) 23:51, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
Comment:Is it me, or does the (historical 17th century) photo in the Haiti Tortuga Article not more resemble the shape of the Venezuelan "La Tortuga" island? I was staring at that several weeks ago and looking at it on Google Maps. Could there be a mix up between the two islands? CaribDigita ( talk) 01:14, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
You're right CaribDigita, they do look similar. Savvyjack23 ( talk) 03:27, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
In the Wikipedia page for Tortuga Island, Haiti, ( /info/en/?search=Tortuga_Island,_Haiti), the island shown on the map at 18°50.0'N, 72°59.0'W is Ile de la Gonave. Tortuga Island is off the northwest coast of Haiti at 20°3.0'N, 72°47.0'W. This is readily verifiable by reference to Google Earth. Crossford ( talk) 22:07, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Crossford; I just fixed it. Feel free to view its history of course and make corrections; it was the latest editor who had wrongfully changed it. Savvyjack23 ( talk) 00:27, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
I feel that she statement
In 1635 Spain recaptured Tortuga from the English and French, expelled them and left. As they soon returned, Spain conquered the English and French colonies for a second time ...
was written forgetting the first reconquest of 1629, so all the numbers should be raised by one (or the text should be clear on the fact that the two actions of 1635 are the same reconquest)
pietro 151.29.191.205 ( talk) 16:38, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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This is the city that the pirates were destroying in the Pirates of the Caribbean ride and the city that Jack and Will go to in Curse of the Black Pearl, right? -- VolatileChemical 22:43, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
Is the island commonly called by it's Spanish name by English speakers? I would have expected the French name, since it's part of Haiti. User:Peter Grey 10:23, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Wouldn't it be more correctly known as the 'Treaty of Regensburg' in English? The name 'Ratisbon' is actually the Latin name for Regensburg. - ( Aidan Work 01:24, 11 December 2005 (UTC))
Some information about the isle today would be interesting. Siarching in Google Earthyou find some roads there, and looking at that map you also find them, together with some probably french names, maybe place names. What places are there? How many inhabitans?-- Hun2 17:25, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
The result of the debate was don't move. — Nightst a llion (?) Seen this already? 20:02, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I am curious about this too. I am shocked with the popularity of pirates that the island isn't made into a historical site, unless there is nothing left. Haiti being such a poor country could use it to build up tourism. Laytonc32 Jan 20 2007
I filed a request to move the page because apparently I am too new a user to do it myself. I feel it's important, because the island has not been officially known as Tortuga since 1697. Every Haitian knows it only as Île de la Tortue. I am Haitian by marriage, and frankly I was shocked to see the title of this article. I do not believe that a simple redirect is sufficient here. I think the redirect should be from Tortuga, not from the french name.
I notice that the rule seems to be to translate all place names wherever possible. Therefore, on the Move Request page, I have requested either "La Tortue (island)" or "Tortoise Island". There was only one field for the requested name, so hopefully the admin will notice the strange combination and not give us an article with both names in the title! Obviously that would not be correct. Fowler Pierre 00:41, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
As for determining whether "Tortuga Island" or "Tortise Island" or "Tortue Island" or "Ile de la Tortue" is the most common name used in English, I tried various permutations in Google, and as far as I can tell, Tortuga is the most common. And my counts exclude the many cases where "Tortuga" is mentioned by itself. The collocation "Tortuga Island" is frequent enough that it is clear that "Tortuga" is being used as a name.... But of course, if you have evidence to the contrary, be sure to share it with us. -- Macrakis 12:46, 8 April 2006 (UTC), updated 14:25
hits | |
---|---|
Haiti Tortue "Turtle Island" [3] | 145 |
Haiti Tortuga "Turtle Island" [4] | 298 |
Haiti Tortue "Tortoise Island" [5] | 46 |
Haiti Tortuga "Tortoise Island" [6] | 106 |
Haiti "Turtle Island" | 51,200 |
Haiti "Tortoise Island" | 130 |
Haiti "Ile de la Tortue" | 33,200 |
Haiti "Tortue Island" | 349 |
Haiti "Isla Tortuga" | 837 |
Haiti "Tortuga Island" | 23,200 |
Haiti "Island of the Turtle" | 94 |
The Jacques Rozier movie Les Naufrages de l'Ile de la Tortue (1976) gets 97 Google hits under for its English title The Castaways of Turtle Island. Gene Nygaard 16:20, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Please feel free to add any specific usage to this list: Gene Nygaard 15:02, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Gene, I wonder what the right way to weight reference sources (encyclopedias, gazetteers, maps) is vs. popular usage. Some reference sources of course have policies which conflict with Wikipedia's policy. For example, the Encyclopedia of Islam always uses the Arabic or Ottoman Turkish form of placenames as the headword. Other reference sources always prefer the local name, with the common English name in parentheses, e.g. Athina (Athens). Note below that the Random House Dictionary isn't even internally consistent -- they licensed the atlas part from C.S.Hammond. -- Macrakis 02:03, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
Tortuga:
Tortue:
Turtle or Tortoise:
Anything else:
Towards the end of the article is this sentence: "At this same time, an English pirate started to promote himself and invite the pirates on the island of Tortuga to set sail under him." Why is he not named? Will someone identify this pirate by name?
According to a various websites that were confirmed on Google Earth, the location of Tortuga is not northwest of Haiti. It is actually located directly west of Isla Margarita, just north of Venezuela. This should be corrected within the article.
Ok, it's a big hit, good for them, but I don't think this is appropriate. Can we put it on the Johnny Depp page or something? Tahrlis 02:26, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
I concur, a mention might be made, but the whole "spoiler" section is completely out of the enciclopedian approach an article like this should have. I'm modifying it.
The Tortuga article that was on here before had no reference to location that the article was speaking about. [8] was the way it looked before I changed anything.
"Tortuga" was just dumped into the common "Caribbean stubs" which if something is in there, at times it's impossible to know location of that item. Mainly-- because many spots in the Caribbean have the same name over-and-over-and-over again. Example: the "Dominican" Republic and "Dominica" (Both of which are Republics....) Or-- Basseterre (Saint Kitts and Nevis) and Basse-terre, (Guadeloupe)... I thought that Tortuga was "Tortue" so I had filed it under "Haiti" because the article also mentioned Hispaniola and I know there's no "Tortuga" Island anywhere from Trinidad and Tobago up until Montserrat with certainty. I didn't think about the possibility of small South American islands close to Venezuela.
At the time I was trying to clean up Caribbeaan stubs namespace because back then, Caribbean articles would get targeted a lot for deletion if they weren't added to fast enough. E.g. within 2 months. So by filing stubs under their country-- that usually sped-up the time it took to get someone knowledgable about the place to add to that article before the Delete posse on Wikipedia could hit it. As such, I think the Tortuga article then might possibly have been about Venezuela's *shrug*... But I can't say with certainty because the Tortuga article then had no reference to location and was just dumped into the main gernal Caribbean stubs when it was created. CaribDigita 02:14, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
I was wondering if there is anything new about the island now? With the new interest in Pirates, I am surprised something isn't done with the island. Can sites be built for tourists? Is it feasable? Or is Haiti just so poor that the have other issues they need to worry about? I am just curious since I can find so little about the island and what it looks like today.-- Laytonc32 04:22, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Laytonc32 ( talk • contribs) 04:20, 21 January 2007 (UTC).
Please do not add templates and categories for fictional universes to real articles even if they correspond to each other. If if you see a need to describe Tortuga from that perspective, please move the content back to Tortuga (Pirates of the Caribbean), where it was before added here. -- Tikiwont 08:10, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
On another Note: "By 1640, the buccaneers of Tortuga were calling themselves the Brethren of the Coast." "Brethren of the Coast" redirects to the fictional "Brethren Court". Slightly funny, since I thought I was reading real history. :) As I don't know anything about this topic I wouldn't know what to change, but i just thought i let you know. Gehweg 12:02, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
I was searching Google Earth when i noticed a strange object marked on tortuga. It looks possibly like a shipwreck but i cant be sure, anyone know what it is? its in the North part of the island in the middle on the coast. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.205.70.254 ( talk) 00:46, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
I have put the tag "citation needed" to the sentence saying that tortuga was discovered by europeans... I mean, nobody lives there before? nobody knew this island before Colombus? This is absurd, or at least too much european-centric. Wikipedia is global project, so please reference a source before saying that someone discovered someplace when very probably autochthonous knew this place before. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.84.160.154 ( talk) 14:37, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
I've found some links that might add up to the verifiability of this article:
62.107.237.72 ( talk) 09:01, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
Being that this is an island of Haiti, which uses French for names, film, books etc. I believe it should be called Île de la Tortue and Turtle Island in the description in English. From the references above, it is clear that there are sources that refer to its French name in its earliest publications in English. Île de la Tortue is in the first Haitian constitution written in French, not in the Spanish Tortuga. Turtle Island and Île de la Tortue, had the most Google hits; 1 and 2 respectively. See Île-à-Vache (Cow Island) - The same situation applies here as it is properly categorized in French not Spanish. Why should it be any different here? In short, it should not. Consider a possible move. Savvyjack23 ( talk) 23:18, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
Actually the Haitian constitution names it La Tortue similar case to La Gonâve which is listed as Gonâve Island on Wikipedia. Perhaps it should be renamed to Tortue Island which the native name Île de la Tortue be inserted as its native name. Also, under the name Tortue Island, there would be only one with no need to add , Haiti after it. It is unique to Haiti. Haitian constitution here [9] Savvyjack23 ( talk) 23:31, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
There are 8 other islands with the name Tortuga and they are all from Spanish speaking nations, with the exception of Southern Florida and Fort Jefferson (Between the Gulf of Mexico and the Keys); which are both heavily influenced by Spanish speakers. Surely, Haiti's island doesn't fit that bill being that it is a French speaking nation with the world Tortue in its constitution. The question I have is why this wasn't realized sooner, or if it was how isn't this argument compelling enough to get it right?
The other Tortuga islands include:
Therefore, Tortue Island would be most correct (with the exception of La Tortue), with all other languages (Spanish etc.) in the description, though with a bit more emphasis for Turtle Island for the English speakers being that this is an English article; possibly added to the description bar. Savvyjack23 ( talk) 23:51, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
Comment:Is it me, or does the (historical 17th century) photo in the Haiti Tortuga Article not more resemble the shape of the Venezuelan "La Tortuga" island? I was staring at that several weeks ago and looking at it on Google Maps. Could there be a mix up between the two islands? CaribDigita ( talk) 01:14, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
You're right CaribDigita, they do look similar. Savvyjack23 ( talk) 03:27, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
In the Wikipedia page for Tortuga Island, Haiti, ( /info/en/?search=Tortuga_Island,_Haiti), the island shown on the map at 18°50.0'N, 72°59.0'W is Ile de la Gonave. Tortuga Island is off the northwest coast of Haiti at 20°3.0'N, 72°47.0'W. This is readily verifiable by reference to Google Earth. Crossford ( talk) 22:07, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Crossford; I just fixed it. Feel free to view its history of course and make corrections; it was the latest editor who had wrongfully changed it. Savvyjack23 ( talk) 00:27, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
I feel that she statement
In 1635 Spain recaptured Tortuga from the English and French, expelled them and left. As they soon returned, Spain conquered the English and French colonies for a second time ...
was written forgetting the first reconquest of 1629, so all the numbers should be raised by one (or the text should be clear on the fact that the two actions of 1635 are the same reconquest)
pietro 151.29.191.205 ( talk) 16:38, 28 September 2019 (UTC)