This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Toroidal inductors and transformers article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
This page ought to have formulae for calculating inductance of toroidal transformers. I have an air-core, toroidal transformer for which i want to know the inductance. The given external link, ostensibly a toroidal calculator, is no help; and since it is also littered with ads, i'm thinking it is too spammy to place on wikipedia. -- 99.233.186.4 ( talk) 00:54, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
Energy does readily get out of a toroidal inductor into nearby objects. For example, the nearby object may be the secondary coil of a toroidal transformer. And it is a good thing because if energy could not get out of a toroidal inductor then a toroidal transformer would not work, because the primary is a toroidal inductor. But, there is a grain of truth in this sentence. It is easier to shield a toroid than some other shapes. A lot of the benefit comes from having a closed magnetic path. It is the axial symmetry (taking the axis to be the line through the center of the donut hole) and a restriction that the current does not have a "toroidal" component that leads to the conclusion that the "lines of flux" are axial circles of constant intensity. Combine that with Faraday's law and one can compute that the B field is zero outside the core of the toroidal inductor. But it depends on having axial symmetry. If there is a chuck of magnetic material next to the winding, the symmetry is broken there is a non-zero B field outside the core of the toroid. As a didactic example, the toroidal coil is a poor example because it leaves the student thinking that he has mastered the idea when all he really did was learn a non-general special case.
I propose that the entire sentence be deleted. Constant314 ( talk) 00:56, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
Pictures/Diagrams clearly showing primary and return winding terminus needed. As it is, it looks like the just dissapear. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.76.222.168 ( talk) 02:43, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
I doubt a lot of scientists come to Wiki for information on toroids. This should have a leading paragraph that states the information people want to know, which is WHY someone would want to use a toroidal transformer instead of a standard square unit. This article doesn't mention the word audio, or even radiation.-- 75.79.150.41 ( talk) 07:10, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
The field confinement and vector potential sections of this are absolutely correct, beautifully illustrated, and clearly explained. However, the only citations are in the initial paragraph or so, and so I suspect these are original research. I also think they put undue weight on these topics which, while mathematically and geometrically elegant, are not of much practical importance. Perhaps they can find a home other than Wikipedia. What do others think? Ccrrccrr ( talk) 00:18, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
This article s like an IBM manual; full of perfectly correct but entirely useless information. The basic equations are by Maxwell, and have been copied from an undergrad physics text book. Nothing to do with ferrite toroids, though. The word "saturation", highly pertinent for ferrites, is not mentioned anywhere. 220.244.85.162 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:55, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
Figures 5, 6, and 8 show an equal number of return wire turns to the primary winding in the opposite direction. Theoretically, that would neutralize (by shorting) all inductance. Further, the only references on this page are to books. Including internet references may enhance credibility. For example, http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/toroid_and_solenoid_external_field.htm mentions the single turn effect. Finally, the sentence "No matter how many times the winding encircles the core and no matter how thin the wire, this toroidal inductor will function as a one coil loop in the plane of the toroid," implies the inductance is decreased without circumferential current compensation. Not the case. The afforementioned link better describes the "single turn effect."
The material may have merit but is badly presented. The presentation is so confusing that other users in ##electronics @ freenode IRC dismissed it as "free energy genius", and did not assist my understanding of it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.2.80 ( talk) 23:58, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
This is actually quite a good technical article. One that slipped past the wiki police. That is lucky for the author because usually the forces of ignorance remove anything written by a domain expert. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 113.190.166.113 ( talk) 02:21, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
disappointed not to have found in the article anything about the development of the toroidal device for use in power supplies (surely where most of them live), how they were invented & how they are constructed. to the uninitiated, it looks to be an impossible task to create a machine that will wind both primary & secondary onto a solid ring of ferrite without 'letting go of the wire' on each pass through the hoop. a picture, ideally... but a description. the article is incomplete without it. duncanrmi ( talk) 14:35, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
The reference to "Feynman" is missing from the bibliography. NotYourFathersOldsmobile ( talk) 21:29, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
There are a lot of errors in the English in this document, for example
the magnetic field emerging from one end of the core have a long path through air to enter the other end.
NotYourFathersOldsmobile ( talk) 21:38, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
A great deal of this article talks about 'circumferential current' and 'B field containment', which is (for mains transformers) largely misleading and useless. The important factors are (for all intents and purposes) avoided altogether, such as VA ratings, saturation, regulation (with linear and nonlinear loads) and everything else that people want to know. Circumferential current is left-field and inconsequential to 99.9% of users, and is almost never a consideration for mains applications. RF circuits are a different matter, but when most people look up 'toroidal transformer' it's usually to find out about standard mains transformers. Esoteric parameters are interesting, but should not dominate the content.
Many of the references are to books that are not accessed by the reference, some are circular (referring back to the page where they are shown), and IMO the page is a hijack - pushing a particular agenda and ignoring the things that most readers would want to know. It has already caused FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) amongst readers, for no useful purpose. There is no mention of the use of an external 'flux band' (copper ring around the outside of the toroid), which was common with E-I transformers but seems forgotten for toroidal types.
As it stands, the article is of no use to man or beast.
Rode666 ( talk) 01:47, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Toroidal inductors and transformers article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
This page ought to have formulae for calculating inductance of toroidal transformers. I have an air-core, toroidal transformer for which i want to know the inductance. The given external link, ostensibly a toroidal calculator, is no help; and since it is also littered with ads, i'm thinking it is too spammy to place on wikipedia. -- 99.233.186.4 ( talk) 00:54, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
Energy does readily get out of a toroidal inductor into nearby objects. For example, the nearby object may be the secondary coil of a toroidal transformer. And it is a good thing because if energy could not get out of a toroidal inductor then a toroidal transformer would not work, because the primary is a toroidal inductor. But, there is a grain of truth in this sentence. It is easier to shield a toroid than some other shapes. A lot of the benefit comes from having a closed magnetic path. It is the axial symmetry (taking the axis to be the line through the center of the donut hole) and a restriction that the current does not have a "toroidal" component that leads to the conclusion that the "lines of flux" are axial circles of constant intensity. Combine that with Faraday's law and one can compute that the B field is zero outside the core of the toroidal inductor. But it depends on having axial symmetry. If there is a chuck of magnetic material next to the winding, the symmetry is broken there is a non-zero B field outside the core of the toroid. As a didactic example, the toroidal coil is a poor example because it leaves the student thinking that he has mastered the idea when all he really did was learn a non-general special case.
I propose that the entire sentence be deleted. Constant314 ( talk) 00:56, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
Pictures/Diagrams clearly showing primary and return winding terminus needed. As it is, it looks like the just dissapear. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.76.222.168 ( talk) 02:43, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
I doubt a lot of scientists come to Wiki for information on toroids. This should have a leading paragraph that states the information people want to know, which is WHY someone would want to use a toroidal transformer instead of a standard square unit. This article doesn't mention the word audio, or even radiation.-- 75.79.150.41 ( talk) 07:10, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
The field confinement and vector potential sections of this are absolutely correct, beautifully illustrated, and clearly explained. However, the only citations are in the initial paragraph or so, and so I suspect these are original research. I also think they put undue weight on these topics which, while mathematically and geometrically elegant, are not of much practical importance. Perhaps they can find a home other than Wikipedia. What do others think? Ccrrccrr ( talk) 00:18, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
This article s like an IBM manual; full of perfectly correct but entirely useless information. The basic equations are by Maxwell, and have been copied from an undergrad physics text book. Nothing to do with ferrite toroids, though. The word "saturation", highly pertinent for ferrites, is not mentioned anywhere. 220.244.85.162 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:55, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
Figures 5, 6, and 8 show an equal number of return wire turns to the primary winding in the opposite direction. Theoretically, that would neutralize (by shorting) all inductance. Further, the only references on this page are to books. Including internet references may enhance credibility. For example, http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/toroid_and_solenoid_external_field.htm mentions the single turn effect. Finally, the sentence "No matter how many times the winding encircles the core and no matter how thin the wire, this toroidal inductor will function as a one coil loop in the plane of the toroid," implies the inductance is decreased without circumferential current compensation. Not the case. The afforementioned link better describes the "single turn effect."
The material may have merit but is badly presented. The presentation is so confusing that other users in ##electronics @ freenode IRC dismissed it as "free energy genius", and did not assist my understanding of it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.2.80 ( talk) 23:58, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
This is actually quite a good technical article. One that slipped past the wiki police. That is lucky for the author because usually the forces of ignorance remove anything written by a domain expert. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 113.190.166.113 ( talk) 02:21, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
disappointed not to have found in the article anything about the development of the toroidal device for use in power supplies (surely where most of them live), how they were invented & how they are constructed. to the uninitiated, it looks to be an impossible task to create a machine that will wind both primary & secondary onto a solid ring of ferrite without 'letting go of the wire' on each pass through the hoop. a picture, ideally... but a description. the article is incomplete without it. duncanrmi ( talk) 14:35, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
The reference to "Feynman" is missing from the bibliography. NotYourFathersOldsmobile ( talk) 21:29, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
There are a lot of errors in the English in this document, for example
the magnetic field emerging from one end of the core have a long path through air to enter the other end.
NotYourFathersOldsmobile ( talk) 21:38, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
A great deal of this article talks about 'circumferential current' and 'B field containment', which is (for mains transformers) largely misleading and useless. The important factors are (for all intents and purposes) avoided altogether, such as VA ratings, saturation, regulation (with linear and nonlinear loads) and everything else that people want to know. Circumferential current is left-field and inconsequential to 99.9% of users, and is almost never a consideration for mains applications. RF circuits are a different matter, but when most people look up 'toroidal transformer' it's usually to find out about standard mains transformers. Esoteric parameters are interesting, but should not dominate the content.
Many of the references are to books that are not accessed by the reference, some are circular (referring back to the page where they are shown), and IMO the page is a hijack - pushing a particular agenda and ignoring the things that most readers would want to know. It has already caused FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) amongst readers, for no useful purpose. There is no mention of the use of an external 'flux band' (copper ring around the outside of the toroid), which was common with E-I transformers but seems forgotten for toroidal types.
As it stands, the article is of no use to man or beast.
Rode666 ( talk) 01:47, 19 July 2020 (UTC)