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--- {{Mergefrom| Geomorphometry|Talk:Topography#Merge_with_Geomorphometry|date=December 2006}} removed per
--- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Topography#Merge_with_.5B.5BGeomorphometry.5D.5D
--- vote tallies 4 Opposed to the nom's lone: 1 // Fra nkB 00:23, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
I've started to rewrite the intro (credit, refs, etc...). I've created new sections (i.e. Topography representations, Tools and Topography in other fields). I've also created Topography (disambiguation) and added some references so that the above issue is solved. Please contribute or comment. -- Szvest Ω Wiki Me Up ® 17:47, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Interesting approach, and some good stuff. Thanks for the references... not my strongest suit! What I am trying to get away from, however, is making topography the basic place to talk about the shape of landforms. My contention is that the word topography used primarily for this branch of geography/cartography, etc., is primarily an American usage, which has gained a foothold elsewhere because of the dominance of American GIS, etc. I would suggest that we put the bulk of the discussion of terrain under "Terrain", or under some other more universally specific term. That was the goal of my reworking last week. I want to push "topography" out of central usage and bring in more specific terms where possible as titles/categories. We would leave topography mainly as disambiguation, with some discussion of the older, (at the time) less ambiguous meaning of "description of place." I welcome further discussion.-- Natcase 04:42, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
I think we're very close to a common sense here: Geomorphology is the study of landforms, particularly in their formation processes. The goeomrphology course I took in college was under the geology department, but it's really a field halfway between geology and physical geography. It would, I think, make sense to put a common category/home/system in place for what is currently under the topography category, esp. the stubs.
Your final definition of topography as "graphic representation" makes some sense to me, but we would then be flying in the face of common (vague) usage. I think that geomorphology is the study of landform creation, that topography is the study of and recording of landforms in their present form, and that cartographic relief depiction (awkward I know, but there isn't a common term in the field) is the graphic depiction of that information.
This morning's realization: the reason for the sudden new use of the term is that the recording of relief data and its graphic expression have in the last few decades separated into two fields, like GIS and cartography. We may step on each others toes, but, well, there you are.
We then should pull out a separate article for topography (study of place). This is different from study of landforms, as place includes many non-landform aspects: built, vegetative, cultural, etc. I think by separating that out as a separate article will clarify things a great deal.
So:
SOund like a plan?-- Natcase 17:16, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
Yesterday, I gathered my some my thoughts, and started to write them down. I find that overnight the article has improved, but my thoughts may still be useful.
Wikipedia is an encyclopedia not a dictionary, so its articles should describe concepts and not words. On the other hand, it is necessary to choose words for the article names and to agree what the articles are trying to describe. I like it when an article says "some people think X, other people think Y" without saying one group is "wrong"; I assume such cases are the result of editors arguing and then reaching a consensus.
As far I can see, the main development of the word is:
I think this development is interesting in itself, as well as useful to readers for the purpose of disambiguation. I liked the rewriting by Natcase because it explicitly explained some of this drift in meaning (I did not previously know that the USGS had a distinction between topographic and planimetric maps). The information is still there, but instead of being all at the beginning, it had become split up throughout the article.
I am in England, and am aware of the following present-day uses of the word:
I looked up "topography" in every printed dictionary I could, and did not find any special mention of the vertical dimension. The definitions usually include the extension to the features of a location, as well as their description. The description is usually "detailed" and only "surface" features are included (this would seem to exclude the description of a whole continent or underground geology).
Note these quotations:
JonH 14:35, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, all. Wow, a civilized discussion leading to a rewrite. I've clearly spent too long reading the revisewars over Greek/Turkish topics. Aiee.
I'm done with my rewrite. JonH, I think that much of what you add could be incorprated into the new Topography as the study of place article. Go for it!
I'm tackling the topography category now... any help and advice there would be welcome. -- Natcase 17:17, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
There it was, hidden away in a dark corner, the unambiguous term we were looking for: Geomorphometry. I feel like I want to move this whole %$!@ing article there. What a word!-- Natcase 05:09, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Some thoughtful and excellent observations above. We must be more careful with our words! I do not refer to rank illiteracy which has no place here, but the care needed with DEFINITION.
For example, I think of where places in the world are as being to do with GEOGRAPHY;
and the study of the general constitution of the ground beneath our feet and the study of the distribution or occurrence of the strata or layers that make up that ground is GEOLOGY;
while a closer examination of the make-up or origin or sources of any particular stratum or layer (e.g., chalk, coal &c. is GEOMORPHOLOGY (= the
morphology of each of the layers).
I do NOT agree that "alternate" = "alternative". We use alternate legs for walking and running and we have no alternative (= other option) way of running or walking.
I do not think anyone should be in this discussion who has not read WINCHESTER, S. "The Map That Changed the World" ;Viking 2001; Penguin 2002; ISBN O-140-28039-1
Mentorsmentor
08:11, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Search for "poop." Looks like someone thought that'd be funny.. Maybe someone would know what the word was meant to be? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.189.243.71 ( talk) 15:01, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Topography is not simply a geography concept. It is a generalized mathematical concept used to indicate the patterned or general organization of features on any map. THis is especially true in artificial intelligence or the analysis of brain function. In these cases we talk about the topographic organization of feature maps, and other uses also related to mapping of brain surface http://www.google.com.sg/search?aq=f&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=topographic+organization Basically if a surface map has patterns on it, one can speak of topography of the surface http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=963773. The usage of the word topography as the detailing of patterns for geometric objects generally is recognized in other encyclopedias and requires a subheading here http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861720933/topography.html . These usages are distinct from topology which usually details the connectedness and archetypal nature of the space, rather than the surface organization of values for a particular function or the distribution of variables in a space. Mrdthree ( talk) 02:29, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
I think what this article is trying to be about is " Surface Geology", particularly in reference to planetary science. There is no wiki article for that topic. Topography refers specifically to relief. I propose a split of the article into the two topics or at least a redirect handled appropriately.-- EvenGreenerFish ( talk) 02:49, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
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what should we do if we saw an impropper word or source entered in editing by someone one Seniru pahasara kamkanamge ( talk) 14:41, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
How can "local history and culture" be a form of topography? I was tempted to slap a "citation needed" on it, but I'm struggling to conceive how it could ever be cited. What does it even mean? It's not discussed in the body of the article, only the lead, so it hardly belongs here, even if it is a real thing. Spinning Spark 14:42, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 14:46, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
This
level-5 vital article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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This page has archives. Sections older than 365 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 10 sections are present. |
--- {{Mergefrom| Geomorphometry|Talk:Topography#Merge_with_Geomorphometry|date=December 2006}} removed per
--- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Topography#Merge_with_.5B.5BGeomorphometry.5D.5D
--- vote tallies 4 Opposed to the nom's lone: 1 // Fra nkB 00:23, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
I've started to rewrite the intro (credit, refs, etc...). I've created new sections (i.e. Topography representations, Tools and Topography in other fields). I've also created Topography (disambiguation) and added some references so that the above issue is solved. Please contribute or comment. -- Szvest Ω Wiki Me Up ® 17:47, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Interesting approach, and some good stuff. Thanks for the references... not my strongest suit! What I am trying to get away from, however, is making topography the basic place to talk about the shape of landforms. My contention is that the word topography used primarily for this branch of geography/cartography, etc., is primarily an American usage, which has gained a foothold elsewhere because of the dominance of American GIS, etc. I would suggest that we put the bulk of the discussion of terrain under "Terrain", or under some other more universally specific term. That was the goal of my reworking last week. I want to push "topography" out of central usage and bring in more specific terms where possible as titles/categories. We would leave topography mainly as disambiguation, with some discussion of the older, (at the time) less ambiguous meaning of "description of place." I welcome further discussion.-- Natcase 04:42, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
I think we're very close to a common sense here: Geomorphology is the study of landforms, particularly in their formation processes. The goeomrphology course I took in college was under the geology department, but it's really a field halfway between geology and physical geography. It would, I think, make sense to put a common category/home/system in place for what is currently under the topography category, esp. the stubs.
Your final definition of topography as "graphic representation" makes some sense to me, but we would then be flying in the face of common (vague) usage. I think that geomorphology is the study of landform creation, that topography is the study of and recording of landforms in their present form, and that cartographic relief depiction (awkward I know, but there isn't a common term in the field) is the graphic depiction of that information.
This morning's realization: the reason for the sudden new use of the term is that the recording of relief data and its graphic expression have in the last few decades separated into two fields, like GIS and cartography. We may step on each others toes, but, well, there you are.
We then should pull out a separate article for topography (study of place). This is different from study of landforms, as place includes many non-landform aspects: built, vegetative, cultural, etc. I think by separating that out as a separate article will clarify things a great deal.
So:
SOund like a plan?-- Natcase 17:16, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
Yesterday, I gathered my some my thoughts, and started to write them down. I find that overnight the article has improved, but my thoughts may still be useful.
Wikipedia is an encyclopedia not a dictionary, so its articles should describe concepts and not words. On the other hand, it is necessary to choose words for the article names and to agree what the articles are trying to describe. I like it when an article says "some people think X, other people think Y" without saying one group is "wrong"; I assume such cases are the result of editors arguing and then reaching a consensus.
As far I can see, the main development of the word is:
I think this development is interesting in itself, as well as useful to readers for the purpose of disambiguation. I liked the rewriting by Natcase because it explicitly explained some of this drift in meaning (I did not previously know that the USGS had a distinction between topographic and planimetric maps). The information is still there, but instead of being all at the beginning, it had become split up throughout the article.
I am in England, and am aware of the following present-day uses of the word:
I looked up "topography" in every printed dictionary I could, and did not find any special mention of the vertical dimension. The definitions usually include the extension to the features of a location, as well as their description. The description is usually "detailed" and only "surface" features are included (this would seem to exclude the description of a whole continent or underground geology).
Note these quotations:
JonH 14:35, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, all. Wow, a civilized discussion leading to a rewrite. I've clearly spent too long reading the revisewars over Greek/Turkish topics. Aiee.
I'm done with my rewrite. JonH, I think that much of what you add could be incorprated into the new Topography as the study of place article. Go for it!
I'm tackling the topography category now... any help and advice there would be welcome. -- Natcase 17:17, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
There it was, hidden away in a dark corner, the unambiguous term we were looking for: Geomorphometry. I feel like I want to move this whole %$!@ing article there. What a word!-- Natcase 05:09, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Some thoughtful and excellent observations above. We must be more careful with our words! I do not refer to rank illiteracy which has no place here, but the care needed with DEFINITION.
For example, I think of where places in the world are as being to do with GEOGRAPHY;
and the study of the general constitution of the ground beneath our feet and the study of the distribution or occurrence of the strata or layers that make up that ground is GEOLOGY;
while a closer examination of the make-up or origin or sources of any particular stratum or layer (e.g., chalk, coal &c. is GEOMORPHOLOGY (= the
morphology of each of the layers).
I do NOT agree that "alternate" = "alternative". We use alternate legs for walking and running and we have no alternative (= other option) way of running or walking.
I do not think anyone should be in this discussion who has not read WINCHESTER, S. "The Map That Changed the World" ;Viking 2001; Penguin 2002; ISBN O-140-28039-1
Mentorsmentor
08:11, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Search for "poop." Looks like someone thought that'd be funny.. Maybe someone would know what the word was meant to be? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.189.243.71 ( talk) 15:01, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Topography is not simply a geography concept. It is a generalized mathematical concept used to indicate the patterned or general organization of features on any map. THis is especially true in artificial intelligence or the analysis of brain function. In these cases we talk about the topographic organization of feature maps, and other uses also related to mapping of brain surface http://www.google.com.sg/search?aq=f&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=topographic+organization Basically if a surface map has patterns on it, one can speak of topography of the surface http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=963773. The usage of the word topography as the detailing of patterns for geometric objects generally is recognized in other encyclopedias and requires a subheading here http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861720933/topography.html . These usages are distinct from topology which usually details the connectedness and archetypal nature of the space, rather than the surface organization of values for a particular function or the distribution of variables in a space. Mrdthree ( talk) 02:29, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
I think what this article is trying to be about is " Surface Geology", particularly in reference to planetary science. There is no wiki article for that topic. Topography refers specifically to relief. I propose a split of the article into the two topics or at least a redirect handled appropriately.-- EvenGreenerFish ( talk) 02:49, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Topography. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:12, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
what should we do if we saw an impropper word or source entered in editing by someone one Seniru pahasara kamkanamge ( talk) 14:41, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
How can "local history and culture" be a form of topography? I was tempted to slap a "citation needed" on it, but I'm struggling to conceive how it could ever be cited. What does it even mean? It's not discussed in the body of the article, only the lead, so it hardly belongs here, even if it is a real thing. Spinning Spark 14:42, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 14:46, 23 January 2023 (UTC)