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Reviewer: Epicgenius ( talk · contribs) 19:15, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
@
Rachel Helps (BYU): I'll review this in depth soon. My initial comments are below.
epicgenius (
talk)
19:15, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not) |
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Overall: |
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General comments:
More later. epicgenius ( talk) 19:15, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
<ref group="External-links"></ref>
. Like this:
[External-links 1] then put {{reflist|group="External-links"}}
in the bottom of the page.
epicgenius (
talk)
20:47, 21 June 2018 (UTC)References
{{
cite web}}
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ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (
help){{
cite web}}
: Unknown parameter |deadurl=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (
help){{
cite web}}
: Unknown parameter |deadurl=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (
help)Lead/Infobox:
The Topaz War Relocation Center, also known as the Central Utah Relocation Center (Topaz) and (briefly) the Abraham Relocation Center, was a camp which housed Nikkei – Americans of Japanese descent and immigrants who had come to the United States from Japan.is very awkward. Especially the punctuation: two commas, two parentheses, and one dash that would normally suggest a parenthetical phrase. I would personally suggest "The Topaz War Relocation Center, also known as the Central Utah Relocation Center (Topaz) and briefly as the Abraham Relocation Center, was a camp which housed Americans of Japanese descent and immigrants who had come to the United States from Japan, also known as Nikkei". Or you can explain what Nikkei are in another sentence.
Politicians felt that Japanese immigrants and their children were dangerous on the west coast and forced them to locate to remote camps.- (1) Could you give some examples of politicians? (2) "West Coast" is a proper noun and should be capitalized.
The camp was opened in September 1942 and closed in October 1945.- This may be more appropriate earlier, before
There were a number of such camps used during the Second World War, under the control of the War Relocation Authority.Speaking of which, you could also modify the sentence beginning with "There were a number..." to make it flow more smoothly, e.g. "Topaz was one of a number of such camps...".
The camp consisted of 19,800 acres (8,012.8 ha),[3],- There's an extra comma.
but the main living area was concentrated into 640 acres (259.0 ha).- Something like "... with a 640-acre (259.0 ha) main living area" would be more concise.
This central residential area was located approximately 15 miles (24.1 km) west of Delta, Utah- (1) I would put a period right after "Delta, Utah", and change the fragment after
some lived as caretakersto its own sentence. (2) Would it work to place the location earlier in the lead (e.g. the first paragraph)? Just a question.
Conditions were very uncomfortable even after the belated installation of pot-bellied stoves, as the arid area experienced extreme temperature fluctuations and the barracks lacked insulation.- I would switch the parts of the sentence before/after the comma. It would read more smoothly if you put the cause of the discomfort first. E.g. "The arid area experienced extreme temperature fluctuations and the barracks lacked insulation, so conditions were very uncomfortable even after the belated installation of pot-bellied stoves."
Camp life was documented in a newspaper, Topaz Times, and in the literary publication Trek. Internees worked inside and outside the camp, mostly in agricultural labor. Many internees became notable artists.- This is an abrupt transition from the "loyalty questionnaire" sentences that preceded it. I think it should be a new paragraph. Also, would it be better if this paragraph were placed before the "loyalty questionnaire" sentences?
The film American Pastime is set in the Topaz camp and uses Dave Tatsuno's historical footage.- This is a very abrupt transition as well. You could lead with a sentence about Topaz after its closure.
The site is a U.S. National Historic Landmark.- It would be nice to mention which year this occurred (in 2007, it looks like).
@ Rachel Helps (BYU): Here are some more comments:
Terminology:
United States Government- "government" should be lowercase per MOS:CAPS
Topaz has been referred to as a "War Relocation Center,"- also lowercase, unless this is part of the commonly accepted proper name for the center.
the controversy over which term is the most accurate and appropriate continues to the present day- This could be accompanied by some examples of terminology conflicting with each other, if you can find them. Additionally, when is "the present day"? For the sources that are provided, they seem to date from the late 1990s.
In a preface to a book on Topaz written and published by the Topaz Museum- in which year? This is important since the article mentions "the present day" in the previous sentence.
History:
as a result of Executive Order 9066, signed by President Franklin Roosevelt in February 1942does.
120,000 Americans of Japanese descent and Japanese-born residents of the West Coast of the United States- This would be a good place to explain the terms "Issei" and "Nisei" since these are mentioned later on. (It seems like "Sansei", etc. are included under descendants of those born to "Nisei". But I could be wrong.)
California, Oregon and Washington- These states are on the West Coast, but many people outside the US might not know that, so this fact should be clarified. E.g. "approximately 120,000 [...] residents in California, Oregon and Washington, along the West Coast of the United States, were forced to leave their homes".
The camp was governed by Charles F. Ernst until June 1944, when the position was taken over by Luther T. Hoffman following Ernst's resignation.- this should be mentioned later on, after the sentence about the camp's opening.
65% were Nisei or Kibei- American-born citizens- (1) The sentence should not begin with a number. You can put something like "Sixty-five percent" or "The majority, 65%,", but having the sentence begin with just "65%" is grammatically incorrect. (2) Should the dash after "Kibei" be a hyphen? Or is it spaced-"n"-dash or "m" dash? (3) The grammar is also confusing; it's not clear if "American-born citizens" qualifies just "Kibei", or "Nisei" as well.
Topaz was opened September 11, 1942- Likewise, this is important to mention early on.
A total of 11,212 people lived at Topaz at one time or another.- this could probably be combined with the comment about "9,000 internees and staff". I suppose the 9,000 figure is how many people lived there at any given time.
Topaz was originally known as the Central Utah Relocation Authority, and then the Abraham Relocation Authority, but the names were too long for post office regulations. The final name, Topaz, came from a mountain which overlooks the camp from 9 miles (14.5 km) away.- I suppose this could be its own paragraph, since it doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the second paragraph.
More later. epicgenius ( talk) 22:05, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
@ Rachel Helps (BYU): Sorry for the delay, I got caught up in work this week. I'll try to finish off the prose part this weekend.
Climate:
Surrounded by desert, Topaz was an entirely new environment for internees, most of whom were from the San Francisco Bay Area- This should be reworded a bit, especially the first part of the sentence ("Surrounded by desert, Topaz"), which is awkward. The point is that Topaz was surrounded by desert, and the internees from the Bay Area were not acclimated to such an environment. It would be helpful to compare the Bay Area's climate with the desert climate.
In the arid environment, temperatures could vary greatly throughout the day- Which temperatures did it vary between?
Winters were cold, with averages below freezing for several months and an average of 18 inches of snow received- This sentence is also awkward. First, below-freezing already implies that it's cold, and second, the 18 inches of snow doesn't tie in well with the rest of the sentence. It would be better to describe the winter similar to something like this: "During the winters, the average temperatures would be below freezing for several months and the area would receive an average of 18 inches of snow."
100 degrees F- This measurement should use {{ convert}} or provide the Celsius equivalent.
Architecture and living arrangement:
one square mile,
20x20 foot,
every quarter of a mile- all need conversions or metric equivalents.
Each block housed 200–300 people,- I'm assuming these are the 34 residential blocks, correct?
The barracks were eventually lined with sheetrock, and the floors filled with masonite, but not until many internees had already moved into the camp, experiencing severe hot and cold in the arid climate- I guess you should flip the two halves of the sentences around. Otherwise, the timeline of this sentence is backward. So "After many internees had already moved into the camp, experiencing severe hot and cold in the arid climate, the barracks were eventually lined with sheetrock, and the floors filled with masonite."
Camp construction was completed in part by 214 interned volunteers.- This is an interesting sentence, and also a little confusing, particularly the word "volunteers". Were these internees who had voluntarily agreed to build the camp before they moved in? Or were they simply unpaid? I'm just wondering.
except for a lumber pile of scrap wood- Am I correct to assume that every family had piles of wood with which they could build their own furniture? This should be clarified.
four bathtubs and four showers served 250 to 300 people housed in each barrack block- This is redundant and might conflict with the previous paragraph. The other paragraph said that four bathtubs served the women and four showers served the men. However, this sentence implies that the bathtubs and showers were shared by all the residents. I would suggest combining and correcting these sentences, because this is a little confusing.
and was "almost undrinkable"- in which way? Was it unfiltered?
among others- This is not needed, because the sentence already has the word "include". The other, unnamed facilities are inclusive within the phrase. Just "including a high school, two elementary schools, a 28-bed hospital, at least two churches, and a community garden" is enough.
Daily life:
but camp produce won awards at the Millard County Fair- This doesn't fit with the rest of the sentence about Topaz not being fully self-sufficient.
two elementary schools, Desert View Elementary and Mountain View Elementary, Topaz High School (grades 7–12) and an adult education program- This reads as a serial list. But Desert View and Mountain View are included under "two elementary schools" whereas the grammar implies that this is separate. There are three options:
Topaz had a newspaper, the Topaz Times, a literary publication called Trek, and two libraries which eventually contained almost 7,000 items in both English and Japanese.- I'd replace the first comma with the word "called", so it would be an actual serial list. I.e. "Topaz had a newspaper called the Topaz Times..."
with reunions held up to 50 years after internment- I'd add "ended" after "internment". Also, was the 50-year reunion the last reunion ever? If not, I would rephrase that sentence.
6 miles,
1,164 pound- these needs conversion to metric units. I'd also link Smithsonian Institution.
More later. epicgenius ( talk) 17:30, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
|adj=on
will allow it to be used in a singular tense, such as {{convert|1164|lb|kg|adj=on}} → 1,164-pound (528 kg)Camp politics:
assessing their level of Americanization- Do you mean that this was an assessment of the internees' allegiance to the US? The word "Americanization" seems a bit out of place here.
Two questions asked prisoners to about their willingness- There's a typo here, should be "asked prisoners about".
most notably artist Chiura Obata, resulting in his immediate release.- Why was he released and what happened to him? This sounds like an interesting story, because normally people don't get released from jail (and especially not from an interment camp) for assaulting someone.
1,447 "disloyal" prisoners- Sentences shouldn't begin with numbers. The rest of the sentences are correct in this sense.
Sixty-three-year-old James Wakasa was shot to death on April 11, 1943, by guards for wandering too close to the camp fence- This is in passive voice and it would read better in the active voice. e.g. "Guards fatally shot 63-year-old James Wakasa on April 11, 1943, for wandering too close to the camp fence."
Internees reacted with work strikes- "reacted with work strikes" could be reworded as just "went on strike"
Korematsu v. United Statesshould be in italics.
In film:
Dave Tatsuno (1913–2006), had a movie camera smuggled into the camp, at the urging of his supervisor, Walter Honderick. Film which he shot from 1943 to 1945 became the documentary Topaz.- This is very awkward for several reasons:
Dave Tatsuno (1913–2006),doesn't need a comma.
had a movie camera smuggled into the campshould be in active voice: "smuggled a movie camera into the camp". Or if he didn't actually smuggle it, something similar.
his supervisor, Walter Honderick- supervisor from where?
Film which he shot from 1943 to 1945 became the documentary Topazshould also be in active voice. "The documentary Topaz uses film which he shot from 1943 to 1945."
Documentaries about the Topaz War Relocation Center include Dave Tatsuno's Topazis redundant.
Ken Verdoia's 1987 work of the same nameshould be clarified after you act upon the above comment.
In literature:
In art:
Much of the art made by detainees at the camp depicted life there, and survives: most prominently drawings and woodcuts by Chiura Obata and Matsusaburō (George) Hibi.- This should be reworded or broken up into two sentences, because the last part of the segment is a run-on.
Recent years:
most of the buildings were auctioned off and removed from the site.- I'm assuming the buildings themselves can't be moved in one piece, but had to be disassembled. This could be clarified.
Delta High School Teacher, Jane Beckwith,- the word "teacher" should be lowercase, and the commas are redundant.
In 2017, the museum reopened after being remodeled and focused on the history of Topaz- when was it closed? Didn't it just open in 2015?
The site is a U.S. National Historic Landmark- also redundant
epicgenius ( talk) 19:20, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
@ Rachel Helps (BYU): OK, here's my remaining comments:
That's it. Putting on hold for 7 days to allow these comments to be resolved. epicgenius ( talk) 16:13, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
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Reviewing |
Article (
|
visual edit |
history) ·
Article talk (
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Reviewer: Epicgenius ( talk · contribs) 19:15, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
@
Rachel Helps (BYU): I'll review this in depth soon. My initial comments are below.
epicgenius (
talk)
19:15, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not) |
---|
|
Overall: |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
General comments:
More later. epicgenius ( talk) 19:15, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
<ref group="External-links"></ref>
. Like this:
[External-links 1] then put {{reflist|group="External-links"}}
in the bottom of the page.
epicgenius (
talk)
20:47, 21 June 2018 (UTC)References
{{
cite web}}
: Unknown parameter |deadurl=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (
help){{
cite web}}
: Unknown parameter |deadurl=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (
help){{
cite web}}
: Unknown parameter |deadurl=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (
help)Lead/Infobox:
The Topaz War Relocation Center, also known as the Central Utah Relocation Center (Topaz) and (briefly) the Abraham Relocation Center, was a camp which housed Nikkei – Americans of Japanese descent and immigrants who had come to the United States from Japan.is very awkward. Especially the punctuation: two commas, two parentheses, and one dash that would normally suggest a parenthetical phrase. I would personally suggest "The Topaz War Relocation Center, also known as the Central Utah Relocation Center (Topaz) and briefly as the Abraham Relocation Center, was a camp which housed Americans of Japanese descent and immigrants who had come to the United States from Japan, also known as Nikkei". Or you can explain what Nikkei are in another sentence.
Politicians felt that Japanese immigrants and their children were dangerous on the west coast and forced them to locate to remote camps.- (1) Could you give some examples of politicians? (2) "West Coast" is a proper noun and should be capitalized.
The camp was opened in September 1942 and closed in October 1945.- This may be more appropriate earlier, before
There were a number of such camps used during the Second World War, under the control of the War Relocation Authority.Speaking of which, you could also modify the sentence beginning with "There were a number..." to make it flow more smoothly, e.g. "Topaz was one of a number of such camps...".
The camp consisted of 19,800 acres (8,012.8 ha),[3],- There's an extra comma.
but the main living area was concentrated into 640 acres (259.0 ha).- Something like "... with a 640-acre (259.0 ha) main living area" would be more concise.
This central residential area was located approximately 15 miles (24.1 km) west of Delta, Utah- (1) I would put a period right after "Delta, Utah", and change the fragment after
some lived as caretakersto its own sentence. (2) Would it work to place the location earlier in the lead (e.g. the first paragraph)? Just a question.
Conditions were very uncomfortable even after the belated installation of pot-bellied stoves, as the arid area experienced extreme temperature fluctuations and the barracks lacked insulation.- I would switch the parts of the sentence before/after the comma. It would read more smoothly if you put the cause of the discomfort first. E.g. "The arid area experienced extreme temperature fluctuations and the barracks lacked insulation, so conditions were very uncomfortable even after the belated installation of pot-bellied stoves."
Camp life was documented in a newspaper, Topaz Times, and in the literary publication Trek. Internees worked inside and outside the camp, mostly in agricultural labor. Many internees became notable artists.- This is an abrupt transition from the "loyalty questionnaire" sentences that preceded it. I think it should be a new paragraph. Also, would it be better if this paragraph were placed before the "loyalty questionnaire" sentences?
The film American Pastime is set in the Topaz camp and uses Dave Tatsuno's historical footage.- This is a very abrupt transition as well. You could lead with a sentence about Topaz after its closure.
The site is a U.S. National Historic Landmark.- It would be nice to mention which year this occurred (in 2007, it looks like).
@ Rachel Helps (BYU): Here are some more comments:
Terminology:
United States Government- "government" should be lowercase per MOS:CAPS
Topaz has been referred to as a "War Relocation Center,"- also lowercase, unless this is part of the commonly accepted proper name for the center.
the controversy over which term is the most accurate and appropriate continues to the present day- This could be accompanied by some examples of terminology conflicting with each other, if you can find them. Additionally, when is "the present day"? For the sources that are provided, they seem to date from the late 1990s.
In a preface to a book on Topaz written and published by the Topaz Museum- in which year? This is important since the article mentions "the present day" in the previous sentence.
History:
as a result of Executive Order 9066, signed by President Franklin Roosevelt in February 1942does.
120,000 Americans of Japanese descent and Japanese-born residents of the West Coast of the United States- This would be a good place to explain the terms "Issei" and "Nisei" since these are mentioned later on. (It seems like "Sansei", etc. are included under descendants of those born to "Nisei". But I could be wrong.)
California, Oregon and Washington- These states are on the West Coast, but many people outside the US might not know that, so this fact should be clarified. E.g. "approximately 120,000 [...] residents in California, Oregon and Washington, along the West Coast of the United States, were forced to leave their homes".
The camp was governed by Charles F. Ernst until June 1944, when the position was taken over by Luther T. Hoffman following Ernst's resignation.- this should be mentioned later on, after the sentence about the camp's opening.
65% were Nisei or Kibei- American-born citizens- (1) The sentence should not begin with a number. You can put something like "Sixty-five percent" or "The majority, 65%,", but having the sentence begin with just "65%" is grammatically incorrect. (2) Should the dash after "Kibei" be a hyphen? Or is it spaced-"n"-dash or "m" dash? (3) The grammar is also confusing; it's not clear if "American-born citizens" qualifies just "Kibei", or "Nisei" as well.
Topaz was opened September 11, 1942- Likewise, this is important to mention early on.
A total of 11,212 people lived at Topaz at one time or another.- this could probably be combined with the comment about "9,000 internees and staff". I suppose the 9,000 figure is how many people lived there at any given time.
Topaz was originally known as the Central Utah Relocation Authority, and then the Abraham Relocation Authority, but the names were too long for post office regulations. The final name, Topaz, came from a mountain which overlooks the camp from 9 miles (14.5 km) away.- I suppose this could be its own paragraph, since it doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the second paragraph.
More later. epicgenius ( talk) 22:05, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
@ Rachel Helps (BYU): Sorry for the delay, I got caught up in work this week. I'll try to finish off the prose part this weekend.
Climate:
Surrounded by desert, Topaz was an entirely new environment for internees, most of whom were from the San Francisco Bay Area- This should be reworded a bit, especially the first part of the sentence ("Surrounded by desert, Topaz"), which is awkward. The point is that Topaz was surrounded by desert, and the internees from the Bay Area were not acclimated to such an environment. It would be helpful to compare the Bay Area's climate with the desert climate.
In the arid environment, temperatures could vary greatly throughout the day- Which temperatures did it vary between?
Winters were cold, with averages below freezing for several months and an average of 18 inches of snow received- This sentence is also awkward. First, below-freezing already implies that it's cold, and second, the 18 inches of snow doesn't tie in well with the rest of the sentence. It would be better to describe the winter similar to something like this: "During the winters, the average temperatures would be below freezing for several months and the area would receive an average of 18 inches of snow."
100 degrees F- This measurement should use {{ convert}} or provide the Celsius equivalent.
Architecture and living arrangement:
one square mile,
20x20 foot,
every quarter of a mile- all need conversions or metric equivalents.
Each block housed 200–300 people,- I'm assuming these are the 34 residential blocks, correct?
The barracks were eventually lined with sheetrock, and the floors filled with masonite, but not until many internees had already moved into the camp, experiencing severe hot and cold in the arid climate- I guess you should flip the two halves of the sentences around. Otherwise, the timeline of this sentence is backward. So "After many internees had already moved into the camp, experiencing severe hot and cold in the arid climate, the barracks were eventually lined with sheetrock, and the floors filled with masonite."
Camp construction was completed in part by 214 interned volunteers.- This is an interesting sentence, and also a little confusing, particularly the word "volunteers". Were these internees who had voluntarily agreed to build the camp before they moved in? Or were they simply unpaid? I'm just wondering.
except for a lumber pile of scrap wood- Am I correct to assume that every family had piles of wood with which they could build their own furniture? This should be clarified.
four bathtubs and four showers served 250 to 300 people housed in each barrack block- This is redundant and might conflict with the previous paragraph. The other paragraph said that four bathtubs served the women and four showers served the men. However, this sentence implies that the bathtubs and showers were shared by all the residents. I would suggest combining and correcting these sentences, because this is a little confusing.
and was "almost undrinkable"- in which way? Was it unfiltered?
among others- This is not needed, because the sentence already has the word "include". The other, unnamed facilities are inclusive within the phrase. Just "including a high school, two elementary schools, a 28-bed hospital, at least two churches, and a community garden" is enough.
Daily life:
but camp produce won awards at the Millard County Fair- This doesn't fit with the rest of the sentence about Topaz not being fully self-sufficient.
two elementary schools, Desert View Elementary and Mountain View Elementary, Topaz High School (grades 7–12) and an adult education program- This reads as a serial list. But Desert View and Mountain View are included under "two elementary schools" whereas the grammar implies that this is separate. There are three options:
Topaz had a newspaper, the Topaz Times, a literary publication called Trek, and two libraries which eventually contained almost 7,000 items in both English and Japanese.- I'd replace the first comma with the word "called", so it would be an actual serial list. I.e. "Topaz had a newspaper called the Topaz Times..."
with reunions held up to 50 years after internment- I'd add "ended" after "internment". Also, was the 50-year reunion the last reunion ever? If not, I would rephrase that sentence.
6 miles,
1,164 pound- these needs conversion to metric units. I'd also link Smithsonian Institution.
More later. epicgenius ( talk) 17:30, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
|adj=on
will allow it to be used in a singular tense, such as {{convert|1164|lb|kg|adj=on}} → 1,164-pound (528 kg)Camp politics:
assessing their level of Americanization- Do you mean that this was an assessment of the internees' allegiance to the US? The word "Americanization" seems a bit out of place here.
Two questions asked prisoners to about their willingness- There's a typo here, should be "asked prisoners about".
most notably artist Chiura Obata, resulting in his immediate release.- Why was he released and what happened to him? This sounds like an interesting story, because normally people don't get released from jail (and especially not from an interment camp) for assaulting someone.
1,447 "disloyal" prisoners- Sentences shouldn't begin with numbers. The rest of the sentences are correct in this sense.
Sixty-three-year-old James Wakasa was shot to death on April 11, 1943, by guards for wandering too close to the camp fence- This is in passive voice and it would read better in the active voice. e.g. "Guards fatally shot 63-year-old James Wakasa on April 11, 1943, for wandering too close to the camp fence."
Internees reacted with work strikes- "reacted with work strikes" could be reworded as just "went on strike"
Korematsu v. United Statesshould be in italics.
In film:
Dave Tatsuno (1913–2006), had a movie camera smuggled into the camp, at the urging of his supervisor, Walter Honderick. Film which he shot from 1943 to 1945 became the documentary Topaz.- This is very awkward for several reasons:
Dave Tatsuno (1913–2006),doesn't need a comma.
had a movie camera smuggled into the campshould be in active voice: "smuggled a movie camera into the camp". Or if he didn't actually smuggle it, something similar.
his supervisor, Walter Honderick- supervisor from where?
Film which he shot from 1943 to 1945 became the documentary Topazshould also be in active voice. "The documentary Topaz uses film which he shot from 1943 to 1945."
Documentaries about the Topaz War Relocation Center include Dave Tatsuno's Topazis redundant.
Ken Verdoia's 1987 work of the same nameshould be clarified after you act upon the above comment.
In literature:
In art:
Much of the art made by detainees at the camp depicted life there, and survives: most prominently drawings and woodcuts by Chiura Obata and Matsusaburō (George) Hibi.- This should be reworded or broken up into two sentences, because the last part of the segment is a run-on.
Recent years:
most of the buildings were auctioned off and removed from the site.- I'm assuming the buildings themselves can't be moved in one piece, but had to be disassembled. This could be clarified.
Delta High School Teacher, Jane Beckwith,- the word "teacher" should be lowercase, and the commas are redundant.
In 2017, the museum reopened after being remodeled and focused on the history of Topaz- when was it closed? Didn't it just open in 2015?
The site is a U.S. National Historic Landmark- also redundant
epicgenius ( talk) 19:20, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
@ Rachel Helps (BYU): OK, here's my remaining comments:
That's it. Putting on hold for 7 days to allow these comments to be resolved. epicgenius ( talk) 16:13, 28 August 2018 (UTC)