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Is this article about Tony Rezko or is this just an anti-Obama POV fork? It looks like the latter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.224.113.250 ( talk) 21:32, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
The Obama article used to link here, but the Obama flak police kept removing any links to the Tony Rezko article. Most of the time that Rezko has done anything noteworthy, it have involved political corruption with Barack Obama and Rod Blagojevich.
Should the POV flag be removed? There does not seem to be much reasoning for the flag given?
I think the POV flag should remain. This is my first time visiting the page. It does seem that much of the article is just a summary of charges made by one newspaper substantiated only by that newspaper's articles. I would suggest a more NPV treatment, with at least some comments from Obama's team about this issue. lk 06:33, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
I disagree. Having an article reflect the views of only one (apparently biased) new newspaper is POV. POV tags should stand until there is general consensus that the article is NPV. lk 06:25, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Is this another PR page for Sen Obama? Aren't statements such as "No laws were broken and Obama is not under investigation" completely fabricated? Obama most certainly is under investigation, at least by the press, for being tied at the hip to one of the more notorious crooks in the state of Illinois. And of course, laws were broken. Tony Rezko has a laundry list of broken laws a mile long. Statements such as these are Obama campaign spin, not Encyclopedia level reference. If you want to remove POV, then remove the POV, don't just write more Obama propaganda.
What again is the opinion? How do you know he has not broken any laws? How do you know he is not under investigation? The statement either needs to be taken out, or the Obama flak POV removed. The only thing I am sure of with wikipedia entries on Sen Obama is that an army of PR types are out there trying to rewrite history so that the Senator's voting record and political history is buried.
Brilliant statement LM, "They don't do "secret investigations" of major politicians"...apparently Sen Obama is under investigation by the Feds and is mentioned in the charges against Rezko. Your conjecture that all allegations vs. the Sentaor must have already been published (thus it is impossible for the Sen. to have committed any crime, as the media would have already reported it) is the more of the BS PR that Obama's team consistently deliver. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.13.85.147 ( talk) 02:34, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Someone should explain that to Federal Prosecutor Pat Fitzgerald then, because he is mentioning him in his charges against Tony Rezko, which is certainly part of a Federal Investigation. I personally kind of like Senator Obama, it is just bewildering how many people want to shield him from any scrutiny from the press. This article should not be turned into one more Press Release disguised by the Obama flaks as an encyclopedia entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.13.85.147 ( talk) 18:53, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
I wonder why Sen. Obama is included in the Feds case against Rezko, since, as you say, he is not under investigation "of course"? Stating the facts of recent newspaper reports is by no means POV. Censorship by LM is certainly POV. Rezko is a notable person because of Obama and Blagojevich...your continued attempts to remove reference to the Illinois Politicians supported by Rezko smacks of the very reason why Wiki is failing to provide balanced information to readers, and becoming just another marketing mechanism for politicians. Why not leave in a factual reference, and let the readers decide if it is relevant or not? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.13.85.147 ( talk) 02:24, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Who is they? The SunTimes and Tribune have been reporting on this for more than a year. Rezko is under Federal Indictment and was a fugitive during the Governor election in Illinois. This article is about Rezko. Why is it necessary to put statements such as "Obama is not under investigation" in an article about a person who is definitely indicted? I have followed the Barak Obama entry since its inception. I have assumed good faith in the past, but I do not need to assume anything anymore , as his PR corps definitely spins any entry about him, and removes any possible hint that Sen Obama may not have a perfect record. Now the PR flak are invading other entries to post such mindless PR as "No laws were broken and Obama is not under investigation", even though there is no claim otherwise. There really should be some policing of the Obama campaign using Wikipedia for PR.
LM...horsemanure..What evidence of good faith is there? A large number of PR people making happy statements about Obama? How is that good faith? The attempt at a good quality article is at least secondary to making their candidate look good. Hiding behind a bunch of wikilawyering by no means justifies using wikipedia to boost a chosen candidate. Why bother following any rules on this system if PR Flaks are allowed to pump up their candidate without recourse? Ruins the whole system. Just read the above misleading entry ""No laws were broken and Obama is not under investigation", even though there is no claim otherwise. There really should be some policing of the Obama campaign using Wikipedia for PR." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.13.85.147 ( talk) 17:17, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
It's still has a bit of an anti-Obama slant, but it's mostly factual now. Any objections to removing the POV tag? -- lk 17:13, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
The section on Obama is actually longer than the section on Rezko. Isn't this article supposed to be about Rezko? The Obama section needs to be severely pruned to indicate his connection to Rezko, and that's it. There is no need to rush in and add a new reference every time Obama is mentioned in reference to the same material. -- Loonymonkey ( talk) 15:59, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
A presumption of goodfaith is not the same thing as a delusion of good faith. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rickcrane ( talk • contribs) 19:23, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
The move note pretty much says it, but Tony Rezko is by far the most common name for this person (26,000+ hits versus 4,000+ hits), so I moved the page across the redirect. -- Bobblehead (rants) 19:40, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
The web is buzzing with information apparently being circulated by supporters of the Clinton camp. Take a look at this link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/taylor-marsh/obamas-faustian-bargain-_b_82863.html. Should some of this information be worked into the article? Moe ( talk) 07:43, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
If you want to bring accusations forth connecting Rezko with the Clintons, you may want to include both parties in the debate. Ddweb ( talk) 21:16, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Earlier today, an unsourced addition to this article was removed. Here's one sentence that was added by 207.244.161.93:
"He was awarded "Entrepreneur of the Decade" by the Arab-American Business and Professional Association."
Here [1] is a blog that makes the same claim. Corey Salzano ( talk) 23:56, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Another source [2] Corey Salzano ( talk) 00:08, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Here [5] is a blog that claims Rezko renamed his Papa John's restaurants to "Papa Tony's" after disagreements with the franchise resulted in his license being terminated. Corey Salzano ( talk) 23:59, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Here's a source [6] that claims he had 30 restaurants and they were renamed to "Pappa Tony’s." Corey Salzano ( talk) 00:09, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
well i like this picture actually, yet in terms of neutrality, i tend to think u need to put up a pic with him and obama, and also one with him at the bush fundraiser he chaired!!! in terms of neutrality and seeing hows theres an election... it seems thats the neutral point of view... not just the pic with him and bill & hillary... this person has interesting connections to many politicians and the "wikipedia picture evidence" should show that i think —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.176.162.18 ( talk) 15:33, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
otherwise it smacks to me of electioneering... yet i hope these other pictures are found and pasted here, so this one can be returned in a neutral manner! 195.176.162.18 ( talk) 15:36, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Why is wiki so barren on this topic? I recall over 1000 words dedicated to "macaca" on wikipedia. Is wikipedia coddling and protecting the Great Obama? Lets have some more info please...just the facts, as multiple media sources are now reporting. thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.18.108.5 ( talk • contribs)
Looneymonkey-- You are the one who keeps reverting my edits with little to no explanation. You claimed that "(The Sun-Times called him Obama's 'Slumlord Patron?' I don't think so. Not only is your language POV, you are factually incorrect on many points (such as returning donations)." First off, if you check the reference, the title that comes up on the title bar of my browser is "Tony Rezko and his slumlord patron". That is what i had based my original revision on-- I use tabs and that is what the title was to me. As to your charge on returning donations, I had simply clicked the link on the NYT article that is referenced at the end of the article, and that says "Since early June, Mr. Obama has given to charity more than $21,000 in donations that his Senate campaign had received from Rezko associates now linked to the federal inquiries." If you have other sources, please quote them, but the source as quoted was incorrect. There are actually two different numbers, the previous sentence refers to $50-60k in donations, that is over the total of Obama's political career. The second sentance, on returning money claims that Obama returned $21k, the total amount donated to his Senate campaign, but doesn't mention Obama returning money from earlier elections. If you have other sources, please quote them and include them. I'm merely ensuring that the article accurately reflects the given references. Meanwhile, you're reverting a number of edits, including a clarified narrative on the land deal. Please be far more careful when reverting entire edits, and check the actual sources. -- Flyboy121 ( talk) 04:46, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Looneymonkey-- also, what is your problem with my edit on the Obama article? Rezko was indicted for trying to bribe contractors looking for government contracts, claiming that he has the pull to push the contracts their way. How is that not political corruption? Taking bribes for steering government contracts seems to me to be the definition of political corruption. For an update on the trial, try here: http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/812207,morerez022508.article Do you have an alternate characterization for the charges? If so, please edit to something you think is more fair, instead of deleting a very important fact (that Rezko was indicted for his behavior) from the article. Such actions make me believe that you are the one trying to push a POV. -- Flyboy121 ( talk) 05:40, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Provided Abongo's notability can be established by the use of reliable sources, there's no reason why such an article couldn't be started. A quick search revealed recent pieces by Investor's Business Daily and the Chicago Sun-Times so it seems at least plausible that a case could be made. The deletion process is not a vote and if the subject meets the requirements, the page will stand. Ronnotel ( talk) 13:55, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Deletion proposed because Rezko is not noteable aside from gossip about Obama. Timothy Horrigan ( talk) 05:35, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
I've reverted this addition of by Flyboy121 [7] as original research, which can't be used in a biography of a living person (or in regards to a living person on non-biographical articles). Flyboy121, regardless of the context of the wording "a favor", you simply can not include your own speculation about what the columnist meant when he said he did Obama "a favor". There are numerous speculations one could draw from that wording and only one of them is that the purchase of the strip of land increased the value of Obama's land beyond the purchase price. You either need to stop adding unsourced speculation into the article, or find a source that supports your claim. -- Bobblehead (rants) 16:18, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
As per WP:BLP:
Do not use, for example, public records that include personal details — such as date of birth, home value, traffic citations, vehicle registrations, and home or business addresses — or trial transcripts and other court records or public documents, unless a reliable secondary source has already cited them.
Any image of the property in question must properly sourced, and a similar image must already have been published by a reliable secondary source. Ronnotel ( talk) 17:27, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
I added this picture because it is relevant as long as the Ties to Politicians section exists. It has already been removed by a named user and 208.116.141.1, and restored by myself and another user. Please avoid a revert war and recognize the relevance of this image to this section of the article. Corey Salzano ( talk) 21:05, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
I want to repeat what I wrote on January 28. If there is a problem with this image's fair use on wikipedia, debate will take place AT THE IMAGE. This discussion is not about the image. This discussion is about Tony Rezko's article and what should be contained within. If you contest the copyright usage of the image, go to the image and have that debate. Corey Salzano ( talk) 00:10, 29 January 2008 (UTC) Corey, this is about your blatant abuse of your priviledges at WP, to promote the agenda of your own candidate, and to unfairly create a public misperception by placing this picture on this page to suggest that Clintons somehow have to do with the dealings of Rezko. The main dispute is not with the image itself, which makes a legitimate point, but to use it as the ONLY picture on this page about Tony Rezko is incredibly lopsided and egregious.
Corey Salzano, and perhaps a couple of others clearly have some personal stake in putting up the clinton picture with Rezko, to somehow make insinuations that Clintons, rather than Obama would have some connection with Rezko in the allegations against him. This is typical tactics of Obama and his public spin machine that David Axelrod runs out of Chicago. It is certainly not a stretch to imagine that Corey maybe part of the propaganda machine coming from the Obama camp. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.17.236.48 ( talk) 21:12, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
Fair point, so you agree that we should not put up any image of Clinton or Obama on this page, so as not to cause this type of problem. I only put the other picture back up to show you how absurd it is to make this type of suggestive connection for the readers. If you are honest and fair-minded, you would agree that the Clinton picture shoudl come down as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.17.236.48 ( talk) 21:24, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
To Bobblehead: so you are saying that it is OK to insinuate political connections by putting up a picture that does not necessarily need to be there (why is the the connections with politicians section getting the picture, while not others?), rather than simply be fair-minded and not put up a picture at all. If you are really concerned about NPOV, you would agree to remove the Clinton picture as well. You know this makes this page, as well as you guys who maintain the page (Bobblehead, Corey, and a few others) look like political hacks for Obama. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.17.236.48 ( talk) 21:30, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
I don't know; it does seem that most here are pretty biased against Clinton, given that the only picture in the story centers around his transient relationship with them; while there is so much more in terms of his associations with Blajgoivich, Obama, the Daley machine and others. It just seems a bit unfair to single out the one set of politicians that may have only a miniscule amount of association with him. I have to make full disclosure; I'm a McCain supporter, but the coverage of this article does seem very skewed, and I don't think that Corey or Bobblehead has made any disclosures about their poilitical leanings while speculating about roles of others in certain campaigns; if they are to make such a prominent role in editing this article, they should make those disclosures. 99.147.17.156 ( talk) 23:45, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
This is getting a bit humourous. Two Obama fanatics like Corey Salzano and Bobblehead puts on some incendiary picture of the Clintons on WP and tries to pass them off as even-handed editing work. And then the Hillary campaign supporters bite back like mad dogs. I think that, at the risk of a little too much cynicism, I'm already looking forward to the fall campaign. Democrats are just doing to themselves what their opponents in the general would be doing anyway; I couldn't be more relieved that fellows like you are already doing the dirty work and paving the ground for us. 99.147.17.156 ( talk) 01:43, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
Sure you are *wink*. 99.147.17.156 ( talk) 04:22, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
Especially considering that Ron Paul ended his campaign today, lol. This is hilarious, Obama supporters trying to dress up as republicans to beat up on Hillary, even Gingrich could not have scripted it better. 99.147.17.156 ( talk) 04:36, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
There's a key aspect of the NPOV policy (which I'm surprised Luna did not mention) that is very relevant here, namely WP:UNDUE. The problem I have with this photo is that I believe it is clearly given undue weight in this article given that it is the only picture. Lest there be accusations of bias as above, let me fully disclose that while not exactly a full-blown "supporter," I very much hope that Obama defeats Clinton in the Dem nomination fight and goes on to be president. My argument is thus based on encyclopedia policy, not political beliefs.
WP:UNDUE notes that "An article should not give undue weight to any aspects of the subject, but should strive to treat each aspect with a weight appropriate to its significance to the subject." Rezko has ties to politicians, but as near as I can tell the only tie to the Clinton's is this picture. Thousands of people have had their picture taken with the Clinton's so that's not much of a "tie." I'm quite certain that media mentions of the Obama/Rezko connection outnumber mentions of the Clinton/Rezko connection roughly 100 to 1. Matt Lauer mentioned it, but this is hardly something that is regularly discussed (I don't find any Rezko/Obama photos online, but obviously that would be ten times more appropriate for this article). Just to give a personal example, I am a big time political news junkie who has followed every aspect of this campaign (saving many hundreds of articles in folders on my computer), and I had never heard of this photo until I came here, though I am quite familiar with Rezko. That's anecdotal, but it suggests this article is making news more than it is accurately reflecting (with proper considerations for weight) what has been reported.
As they say a picture is worth a thousand words, and readers who come to this article in the next few weeks (and many will) knowing little about this guy will assume his connections to Clinton are as strong or even stronger than the ones to Obama if they only give the article a cursory glance (as many will). This is factually inaccurate, and I think inclusion of this photo thus misleads readers and violates a key portion of our NPOV policy.
I think there are basically two ways to proceed. If we had other photos (maybe one of Rezko himself at the top, one of him with another politician, etc.) then I would certainly not have a problem keeping the Clinton photo. However I do not think the Clinton photo alone is acceptable. If we cannot find other photos I strongly feel that it should be removed. I'm interested to hear arguments that inclusion of this photo does not provide undue weight to what is ultimately an extremely trivial aspect of Rezko's career - the fact that he (like many powerful people) once had his picture taken with a sitting president.-- Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 18:44, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
More detail here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/09/clinton-got-money-from-re_n_90605.html
-- John Bahrain ( talk) 02:13, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Just to be clear, I am not opposed to having an image of Obama's house being included on this article, I'm just opposed to this specific image from being included I don't believe that it meets NFCC#1 in that the image itself is not notable (it is not mentioned in the article [12] as User:Ddweb claims) and the image itself is easily recreatable. Just to keep the discussion in one spot, I've started a discussion at Image talk:Rezko Obama Property Deal.jpg#Replaceable image. Please respond there and not here. Thanks! -- Bobblehead (rants) 22:00, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Is "downscale black" more or less POV than "working-class African-American"? (the subject of a current low-level editing conflict) 72.0.180.2 ( talk) 20:17, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Strange: defense did not present witness despite the state's 8 weeks of case building. I added this, therefore: On May 6, 2008, both the prosecution and the defense rested their cases. Government prosecutors spent 8 weeks for their case, with final witness, Ali Ata, a former high-ranking state official. But Rezko’s lawyer, Joseph J. Duffy, did not present any witnesses. Closing arguments are set for next Monday. www.nytimes.com, Illinois: No Defense Witnesses for Rezko -- Florentino floro ( talk) 10:07, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
How much information should Obama's bio article have on his embarassing associates -- Bill Ayers, Jeremiah Wright, and Tony Rezko? The Barack Obama talk page now has an important discussion about this (at Talk:Barack Obama#Attempt to build consensus on the details).
Some editors here think that when a U.S. presidential candidate is embarassed by someone associated with that candidate, no information about it should be mentioned in the WP biography article, even if the campaign (and therefore the person who is the subject of the article) was affected. Others think WP should only mention that this person was controversial and leave a link in the article to the WP article on that controversial associate. Still others (including me), think we should briefly explain just why that person was controversial in the candidate's life, which can be done in a phrase or at most a sentence or two. Other examples:
Whatever we do, we should have equal treatment, so anyone interested in NPOV-, WP:BLP-compliant articles should look at and participate in the discussion. We've started the discussion by focusing on how much to say about former Weather Underground leader Bill Ayers in the Barack Obama article. On some other pages where I've posted this, people have been responding only beneath the post, which is fine, but won't help get a consensus where it counts. So please excuse me for raising my voice, just to make sure I get the point across: Please respond at Talk:Barack Obama#Attempt to build consensus on the details where your comments will actually affect the consensus!!! Sorry for the shoutin'. I promise not to do it again (here, at least). Noroton ( talk) 19:00, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Just start a discussion on the wording of the lead, in particular the sentence that currently reads "Rezko has been involved in fundraising for local Illinois Democratic and Republican politicians since the 1980s." [14] An IP address has been coming by several times in the last few days to add "some" in front of Republican [15] or in one case, outright removing reference to Republicans. Rezko seems to focus his political contributions on whichever party is in power at the moment. So for the Chicago area that's primarily Democrats, but until recently his state level contributions have focused primarily on Republicans, but now that the Dems control Illinois state government his contributions have shift there (and quite heavily if you look at his recent contributions). So question is, how does everyone want to present this information in the lead? -- Bobblehead (rants) 19:21, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Why is there no picture of Tony Resko on this article? He is the center of a high-profile corruption case in Illinois and needs to be shown! If someone could find a picture of Resko, it would help out this article a bit more as far a visualization goes. - Crazyconan ( talk) 21:49, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
This information is verifiable and relevant to the section "Ties to Barack Obama" and should remain in the article:
The London Times reported that Nadhmi Auchi, an Iraqi-born billionaire loaned Rezko $3.5 million three weeks before Rezko's lot and Obama's new home was purchased.
(See: Times of London)
In April 2004, Auchi attended a party in his honor at the home of Rezko. Obama also attended the party and is alleged to have toasted Auchi, according to one guest. (See: WSJ)
Freedom Fan ( talk) 18:01, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
I see in the article that Rezko was found guilty. Has he been sentenced? Is he in prison now? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.114.102.229 ( talk) 06:51, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
Just read the article for yourself and please don't be bias. It clearly stated "A review by the Los Angeles Times shows that Rezko, a businessman long active in Chicago politics, played a deeper role in Obama's political and financial biography than the candidate has acknowledged." I myself am a Democrat, but I am neutral. I don't like fan-based vandalism of facts. 75.72.35.253 ( talk) 00:04, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
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The timeline is confusing, mainly because of the gap between conviction and sentencing. The following link may help:
Although an entry for "Tuesday" needs to be related to the published date. It's possible that the timeline, or our article, or both, are wrong, of course.
All the best:
Rich
Farmbrough
09:22, 16 May 2024 (UTC).
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Is this article about Tony Rezko or is this just an anti-Obama POV fork? It looks like the latter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.224.113.250 ( talk) 21:32, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
The Obama article used to link here, but the Obama flak police kept removing any links to the Tony Rezko article. Most of the time that Rezko has done anything noteworthy, it have involved political corruption with Barack Obama and Rod Blagojevich.
Should the POV flag be removed? There does not seem to be much reasoning for the flag given?
I think the POV flag should remain. This is my first time visiting the page. It does seem that much of the article is just a summary of charges made by one newspaper substantiated only by that newspaper's articles. I would suggest a more NPV treatment, with at least some comments from Obama's team about this issue. lk 06:33, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
I disagree. Having an article reflect the views of only one (apparently biased) new newspaper is POV. POV tags should stand until there is general consensus that the article is NPV. lk 06:25, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Is this another PR page for Sen Obama? Aren't statements such as "No laws were broken and Obama is not under investigation" completely fabricated? Obama most certainly is under investigation, at least by the press, for being tied at the hip to one of the more notorious crooks in the state of Illinois. And of course, laws were broken. Tony Rezko has a laundry list of broken laws a mile long. Statements such as these are Obama campaign spin, not Encyclopedia level reference. If you want to remove POV, then remove the POV, don't just write more Obama propaganda.
What again is the opinion? How do you know he has not broken any laws? How do you know he is not under investigation? The statement either needs to be taken out, or the Obama flak POV removed. The only thing I am sure of with wikipedia entries on Sen Obama is that an army of PR types are out there trying to rewrite history so that the Senator's voting record and political history is buried.
Brilliant statement LM, "They don't do "secret investigations" of major politicians"...apparently Sen Obama is under investigation by the Feds and is mentioned in the charges against Rezko. Your conjecture that all allegations vs. the Sentaor must have already been published (thus it is impossible for the Sen. to have committed any crime, as the media would have already reported it) is the more of the BS PR that Obama's team consistently deliver. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.13.85.147 ( talk) 02:34, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Someone should explain that to Federal Prosecutor Pat Fitzgerald then, because he is mentioning him in his charges against Tony Rezko, which is certainly part of a Federal Investigation. I personally kind of like Senator Obama, it is just bewildering how many people want to shield him from any scrutiny from the press. This article should not be turned into one more Press Release disguised by the Obama flaks as an encyclopedia entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.13.85.147 ( talk) 18:53, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
I wonder why Sen. Obama is included in the Feds case against Rezko, since, as you say, he is not under investigation "of course"? Stating the facts of recent newspaper reports is by no means POV. Censorship by LM is certainly POV. Rezko is a notable person because of Obama and Blagojevich...your continued attempts to remove reference to the Illinois Politicians supported by Rezko smacks of the very reason why Wiki is failing to provide balanced information to readers, and becoming just another marketing mechanism for politicians. Why not leave in a factual reference, and let the readers decide if it is relevant or not? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.13.85.147 ( talk) 02:24, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Who is they? The SunTimes and Tribune have been reporting on this for more than a year. Rezko is under Federal Indictment and was a fugitive during the Governor election in Illinois. This article is about Rezko. Why is it necessary to put statements such as "Obama is not under investigation" in an article about a person who is definitely indicted? I have followed the Barak Obama entry since its inception. I have assumed good faith in the past, but I do not need to assume anything anymore , as his PR corps definitely spins any entry about him, and removes any possible hint that Sen Obama may not have a perfect record. Now the PR flak are invading other entries to post such mindless PR as "No laws were broken and Obama is not under investigation", even though there is no claim otherwise. There really should be some policing of the Obama campaign using Wikipedia for PR.
LM...horsemanure..What evidence of good faith is there? A large number of PR people making happy statements about Obama? How is that good faith? The attempt at a good quality article is at least secondary to making their candidate look good. Hiding behind a bunch of wikilawyering by no means justifies using wikipedia to boost a chosen candidate. Why bother following any rules on this system if PR Flaks are allowed to pump up their candidate without recourse? Ruins the whole system. Just read the above misleading entry ""No laws were broken and Obama is not under investigation", even though there is no claim otherwise. There really should be some policing of the Obama campaign using Wikipedia for PR." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.13.85.147 ( talk) 17:17, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
It's still has a bit of an anti-Obama slant, but it's mostly factual now. Any objections to removing the POV tag? -- lk 17:13, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
The section on Obama is actually longer than the section on Rezko. Isn't this article supposed to be about Rezko? The Obama section needs to be severely pruned to indicate his connection to Rezko, and that's it. There is no need to rush in and add a new reference every time Obama is mentioned in reference to the same material. -- Loonymonkey ( talk) 15:59, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
A presumption of goodfaith is not the same thing as a delusion of good faith. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rickcrane ( talk • contribs) 19:23, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
The move note pretty much says it, but Tony Rezko is by far the most common name for this person (26,000+ hits versus 4,000+ hits), so I moved the page across the redirect. -- Bobblehead (rants) 19:40, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
The web is buzzing with information apparently being circulated by supporters of the Clinton camp. Take a look at this link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/taylor-marsh/obamas-faustian-bargain-_b_82863.html. Should some of this information be worked into the article? Moe ( talk) 07:43, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
If you want to bring accusations forth connecting Rezko with the Clintons, you may want to include both parties in the debate. Ddweb ( talk) 21:16, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Earlier today, an unsourced addition to this article was removed. Here's one sentence that was added by 207.244.161.93:
"He was awarded "Entrepreneur of the Decade" by the Arab-American Business and Professional Association."
Here [1] is a blog that makes the same claim. Corey Salzano ( talk) 23:56, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Another source [2] Corey Salzano ( talk) 00:08, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Here [5] is a blog that claims Rezko renamed his Papa John's restaurants to "Papa Tony's" after disagreements with the franchise resulted in his license being terminated. Corey Salzano ( talk) 23:59, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Here's a source [6] that claims he had 30 restaurants and they were renamed to "Pappa Tony’s." Corey Salzano ( talk) 00:09, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
well i like this picture actually, yet in terms of neutrality, i tend to think u need to put up a pic with him and obama, and also one with him at the bush fundraiser he chaired!!! in terms of neutrality and seeing hows theres an election... it seems thats the neutral point of view... not just the pic with him and bill & hillary... this person has interesting connections to many politicians and the "wikipedia picture evidence" should show that i think —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.176.162.18 ( talk) 15:33, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
otherwise it smacks to me of electioneering... yet i hope these other pictures are found and pasted here, so this one can be returned in a neutral manner! 195.176.162.18 ( talk) 15:36, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Why is wiki so barren on this topic? I recall over 1000 words dedicated to "macaca" on wikipedia. Is wikipedia coddling and protecting the Great Obama? Lets have some more info please...just the facts, as multiple media sources are now reporting. thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.18.108.5 ( talk • contribs)
Looneymonkey-- You are the one who keeps reverting my edits with little to no explanation. You claimed that "(The Sun-Times called him Obama's 'Slumlord Patron?' I don't think so. Not only is your language POV, you are factually incorrect on many points (such as returning donations)." First off, if you check the reference, the title that comes up on the title bar of my browser is "Tony Rezko and his slumlord patron". That is what i had based my original revision on-- I use tabs and that is what the title was to me. As to your charge on returning donations, I had simply clicked the link on the NYT article that is referenced at the end of the article, and that says "Since early June, Mr. Obama has given to charity more than $21,000 in donations that his Senate campaign had received from Rezko associates now linked to the federal inquiries." If you have other sources, please quote them, but the source as quoted was incorrect. There are actually two different numbers, the previous sentence refers to $50-60k in donations, that is over the total of Obama's political career. The second sentance, on returning money claims that Obama returned $21k, the total amount donated to his Senate campaign, but doesn't mention Obama returning money from earlier elections. If you have other sources, please quote them and include them. I'm merely ensuring that the article accurately reflects the given references. Meanwhile, you're reverting a number of edits, including a clarified narrative on the land deal. Please be far more careful when reverting entire edits, and check the actual sources. -- Flyboy121 ( talk) 04:46, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Looneymonkey-- also, what is your problem with my edit on the Obama article? Rezko was indicted for trying to bribe contractors looking for government contracts, claiming that he has the pull to push the contracts their way. How is that not political corruption? Taking bribes for steering government contracts seems to me to be the definition of political corruption. For an update on the trial, try here: http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/812207,morerez022508.article Do you have an alternate characterization for the charges? If so, please edit to something you think is more fair, instead of deleting a very important fact (that Rezko was indicted for his behavior) from the article. Such actions make me believe that you are the one trying to push a POV. -- Flyboy121 ( talk) 05:40, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Provided Abongo's notability can be established by the use of reliable sources, there's no reason why such an article couldn't be started. A quick search revealed recent pieces by Investor's Business Daily and the Chicago Sun-Times so it seems at least plausible that a case could be made. The deletion process is not a vote and if the subject meets the requirements, the page will stand. Ronnotel ( talk) 13:55, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Deletion proposed because Rezko is not noteable aside from gossip about Obama. Timothy Horrigan ( talk) 05:35, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
I've reverted this addition of by Flyboy121 [7] as original research, which can't be used in a biography of a living person (or in regards to a living person on non-biographical articles). Flyboy121, regardless of the context of the wording "a favor", you simply can not include your own speculation about what the columnist meant when he said he did Obama "a favor". There are numerous speculations one could draw from that wording and only one of them is that the purchase of the strip of land increased the value of Obama's land beyond the purchase price. You either need to stop adding unsourced speculation into the article, or find a source that supports your claim. -- Bobblehead (rants) 16:18, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
As per WP:BLP:
Do not use, for example, public records that include personal details — such as date of birth, home value, traffic citations, vehicle registrations, and home or business addresses — or trial transcripts and other court records or public documents, unless a reliable secondary source has already cited them.
Any image of the property in question must properly sourced, and a similar image must already have been published by a reliable secondary source. Ronnotel ( talk) 17:27, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
I added this picture because it is relevant as long as the Ties to Politicians section exists. It has already been removed by a named user and 208.116.141.1, and restored by myself and another user. Please avoid a revert war and recognize the relevance of this image to this section of the article. Corey Salzano ( talk) 21:05, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
I want to repeat what I wrote on January 28. If there is a problem with this image's fair use on wikipedia, debate will take place AT THE IMAGE. This discussion is not about the image. This discussion is about Tony Rezko's article and what should be contained within. If you contest the copyright usage of the image, go to the image and have that debate. Corey Salzano ( talk) 00:10, 29 January 2008 (UTC) Corey, this is about your blatant abuse of your priviledges at WP, to promote the agenda of your own candidate, and to unfairly create a public misperception by placing this picture on this page to suggest that Clintons somehow have to do with the dealings of Rezko. The main dispute is not with the image itself, which makes a legitimate point, but to use it as the ONLY picture on this page about Tony Rezko is incredibly lopsided and egregious.
Corey Salzano, and perhaps a couple of others clearly have some personal stake in putting up the clinton picture with Rezko, to somehow make insinuations that Clintons, rather than Obama would have some connection with Rezko in the allegations against him. This is typical tactics of Obama and his public spin machine that David Axelrod runs out of Chicago. It is certainly not a stretch to imagine that Corey maybe part of the propaganda machine coming from the Obama camp. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.17.236.48 ( talk) 21:12, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
Fair point, so you agree that we should not put up any image of Clinton or Obama on this page, so as not to cause this type of problem. I only put the other picture back up to show you how absurd it is to make this type of suggestive connection for the readers. If you are honest and fair-minded, you would agree that the Clinton picture shoudl come down as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.17.236.48 ( talk) 21:24, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
To Bobblehead: so you are saying that it is OK to insinuate political connections by putting up a picture that does not necessarily need to be there (why is the the connections with politicians section getting the picture, while not others?), rather than simply be fair-minded and not put up a picture at all. If you are really concerned about NPOV, you would agree to remove the Clinton picture as well. You know this makes this page, as well as you guys who maintain the page (Bobblehead, Corey, and a few others) look like political hacks for Obama. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.17.236.48 ( talk) 21:30, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
I don't know; it does seem that most here are pretty biased against Clinton, given that the only picture in the story centers around his transient relationship with them; while there is so much more in terms of his associations with Blajgoivich, Obama, the Daley machine and others. It just seems a bit unfair to single out the one set of politicians that may have only a miniscule amount of association with him. I have to make full disclosure; I'm a McCain supporter, but the coverage of this article does seem very skewed, and I don't think that Corey or Bobblehead has made any disclosures about their poilitical leanings while speculating about roles of others in certain campaigns; if they are to make such a prominent role in editing this article, they should make those disclosures. 99.147.17.156 ( talk) 23:45, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
This is getting a bit humourous. Two Obama fanatics like Corey Salzano and Bobblehead puts on some incendiary picture of the Clintons on WP and tries to pass them off as even-handed editing work. And then the Hillary campaign supporters bite back like mad dogs. I think that, at the risk of a little too much cynicism, I'm already looking forward to the fall campaign. Democrats are just doing to themselves what their opponents in the general would be doing anyway; I couldn't be more relieved that fellows like you are already doing the dirty work and paving the ground for us. 99.147.17.156 ( talk) 01:43, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
Sure you are *wink*. 99.147.17.156 ( talk) 04:22, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
Especially considering that Ron Paul ended his campaign today, lol. This is hilarious, Obama supporters trying to dress up as republicans to beat up on Hillary, even Gingrich could not have scripted it better. 99.147.17.156 ( talk) 04:36, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
There's a key aspect of the NPOV policy (which I'm surprised Luna did not mention) that is very relevant here, namely WP:UNDUE. The problem I have with this photo is that I believe it is clearly given undue weight in this article given that it is the only picture. Lest there be accusations of bias as above, let me fully disclose that while not exactly a full-blown "supporter," I very much hope that Obama defeats Clinton in the Dem nomination fight and goes on to be president. My argument is thus based on encyclopedia policy, not political beliefs.
WP:UNDUE notes that "An article should not give undue weight to any aspects of the subject, but should strive to treat each aspect with a weight appropriate to its significance to the subject." Rezko has ties to politicians, but as near as I can tell the only tie to the Clinton's is this picture. Thousands of people have had their picture taken with the Clinton's so that's not much of a "tie." I'm quite certain that media mentions of the Obama/Rezko connection outnumber mentions of the Clinton/Rezko connection roughly 100 to 1. Matt Lauer mentioned it, but this is hardly something that is regularly discussed (I don't find any Rezko/Obama photos online, but obviously that would be ten times more appropriate for this article). Just to give a personal example, I am a big time political news junkie who has followed every aspect of this campaign (saving many hundreds of articles in folders on my computer), and I had never heard of this photo until I came here, though I am quite familiar with Rezko. That's anecdotal, but it suggests this article is making news more than it is accurately reflecting (with proper considerations for weight) what has been reported.
As they say a picture is worth a thousand words, and readers who come to this article in the next few weeks (and many will) knowing little about this guy will assume his connections to Clinton are as strong or even stronger than the ones to Obama if they only give the article a cursory glance (as many will). This is factually inaccurate, and I think inclusion of this photo thus misleads readers and violates a key portion of our NPOV policy.
I think there are basically two ways to proceed. If we had other photos (maybe one of Rezko himself at the top, one of him with another politician, etc.) then I would certainly not have a problem keeping the Clinton photo. However I do not think the Clinton photo alone is acceptable. If we cannot find other photos I strongly feel that it should be removed. I'm interested to hear arguments that inclusion of this photo does not provide undue weight to what is ultimately an extremely trivial aspect of Rezko's career - the fact that he (like many powerful people) once had his picture taken with a sitting president.-- Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 18:44, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
More detail here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/09/clinton-got-money-from-re_n_90605.html
-- John Bahrain ( talk) 02:13, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Just to be clear, I am not opposed to having an image of Obama's house being included on this article, I'm just opposed to this specific image from being included I don't believe that it meets NFCC#1 in that the image itself is not notable (it is not mentioned in the article [12] as User:Ddweb claims) and the image itself is easily recreatable. Just to keep the discussion in one spot, I've started a discussion at Image talk:Rezko Obama Property Deal.jpg#Replaceable image. Please respond there and not here. Thanks! -- Bobblehead (rants) 22:00, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Is "downscale black" more or less POV than "working-class African-American"? (the subject of a current low-level editing conflict) 72.0.180.2 ( talk) 20:17, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Strange: defense did not present witness despite the state's 8 weeks of case building. I added this, therefore: On May 6, 2008, both the prosecution and the defense rested their cases. Government prosecutors spent 8 weeks for their case, with final witness, Ali Ata, a former high-ranking state official. But Rezko’s lawyer, Joseph J. Duffy, did not present any witnesses. Closing arguments are set for next Monday. www.nytimes.com, Illinois: No Defense Witnesses for Rezko -- Florentino floro ( talk) 10:07, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
How much information should Obama's bio article have on his embarassing associates -- Bill Ayers, Jeremiah Wright, and Tony Rezko? The Barack Obama talk page now has an important discussion about this (at Talk:Barack Obama#Attempt to build consensus on the details).
Some editors here think that when a U.S. presidential candidate is embarassed by someone associated with that candidate, no information about it should be mentioned in the WP biography article, even if the campaign (and therefore the person who is the subject of the article) was affected. Others think WP should only mention that this person was controversial and leave a link in the article to the WP article on that controversial associate. Still others (including me), think we should briefly explain just why that person was controversial in the candidate's life, which can be done in a phrase or at most a sentence or two. Other examples:
Whatever we do, we should have equal treatment, so anyone interested in NPOV-, WP:BLP-compliant articles should look at and participate in the discussion. We've started the discussion by focusing on how much to say about former Weather Underground leader Bill Ayers in the Barack Obama article. On some other pages where I've posted this, people have been responding only beneath the post, which is fine, but won't help get a consensus where it counts. So please excuse me for raising my voice, just to make sure I get the point across: Please respond at Talk:Barack Obama#Attempt to build consensus on the details where your comments will actually affect the consensus!!! Sorry for the shoutin'. I promise not to do it again (here, at least). Noroton ( talk) 19:00, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Just start a discussion on the wording of the lead, in particular the sentence that currently reads "Rezko has been involved in fundraising for local Illinois Democratic and Republican politicians since the 1980s." [14] An IP address has been coming by several times in the last few days to add "some" in front of Republican [15] or in one case, outright removing reference to Republicans. Rezko seems to focus his political contributions on whichever party is in power at the moment. So for the Chicago area that's primarily Democrats, but until recently his state level contributions have focused primarily on Republicans, but now that the Dems control Illinois state government his contributions have shift there (and quite heavily if you look at his recent contributions). So question is, how does everyone want to present this information in the lead? -- Bobblehead (rants) 19:21, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Why is there no picture of Tony Resko on this article? He is the center of a high-profile corruption case in Illinois and needs to be shown! If someone could find a picture of Resko, it would help out this article a bit more as far a visualization goes. - Crazyconan ( talk) 21:49, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
This information is verifiable and relevant to the section "Ties to Barack Obama" and should remain in the article:
The London Times reported that Nadhmi Auchi, an Iraqi-born billionaire loaned Rezko $3.5 million three weeks before Rezko's lot and Obama's new home was purchased.
(See: Times of London)
In April 2004, Auchi attended a party in his honor at the home of Rezko. Obama also attended the party and is alleged to have toasted Auchi, according to one guest. (See: WSJ)
Freedom Fan ( talk) 18:01, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
I see in the article that Rezko was found guilty. Has he been sentenced? Is he in prison now? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.114.102.229 ( talk) 06:51, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
Just read the article for yourself and please don't be bias. It clearly stated "A review by the Los Angeles Times shows that Rezko, a businessman long active in Chicago politics, played a deeper role in Obama's political and financial biography than the candidate has acknowledged." I myself am a Democrat, but I am neutral. I don't like fan-based vandalism of facts. 75.72.35.253 ( talk) 00:04, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
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The timeline is confusing, mainly because of the gap between conviction and sentencing. The following link may help:
Although an entry for "Tuesday" needs to be related to the published date. It's possible that the timeline, or our article, or both, are wrong, of course.
All the best:
Rich
Farmbrough
09:22, 16 May 2024 (UTC).