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Is there anything to actually say about this though? Zephyrprince 11:50, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I could probably add a very brief introduction (something like Tony Award for Best Original Score or Tony Award for Best Book of a Musical, but I don't really see it as being terribly necessary. The page is valuable as a list, and it's probably more useful to finish up the information on the nominees than to write a preamble. Kevin M Marshall 14:18, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Could we add a multiple win section like Tony Award for Best Original Score? MikeyB! 19:33, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
Since they are the ones who win this award, I will undertake at some point to change all the references. 24.149.45.52 ( talk) 04:12, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 21:54, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
It seems counterintuitive not to list the actual winners/nominees on this page (the show's producers), but the problem is that, over the last 20 years or so, the number of producers listed per production has grown immensely (you can check for yourself at https://www.ibdb.com/awards). Before then, it was typically no more than a half dozen names, and often just one. The winners of the 2019 award (for Hadestown) were listed as:
Mara Isaacs, Dale Franzen, Hunter Arnold, Tom Kirdahy, Carl Daikeler, Five Fates, Willette & Manny Klausner, No Guarantees, Sing Out, Louise! Productions, Stone Arch Theatricals, Benjamin Lowy/Adrian Salpeter, Meredith Lynsey Schade, 42nd.club, Craig Balsam, Broadway Strategic Return Fund, Concord Theatricals, Laurie David, Demar Moritz Gang, Getter Entertainment, Deborah Green, Harris Rubin Productions, Sally Cade Holmes, Marguerite Hoffman, Hornos-Moellenberg, Independent Presenters Network, Jam Theatricals, Kalin Levine Dohr Productions, Phil & Claire Kenny, Mike Karns, Kilimanjaro Theatricals, Lady Capital, LD Entertainment, Sandi Moran, Tom Neff, MWM Live, Patti Sanford Roberts & Michael Roberts, Schroeder Shapiro Productions, Seriff Productions, Stage Entertainment, Kenneth & Rosemary Willman, KayLavLex Theatricals, Tyler Mount, Jujamcyn Theaters (Jordan Roth: President; Rocco Landesman: President Emeritus; Paul Libin: Executive Vice President Emeritus; Jack Viertel: Senior Vice President), The National Theatre, New York Theatre Workshop
The lists for the other nominees are of similar length. And unfortunately, it doesn't seem like they're in any meaningful order (i.e. I don't see any indication that Mara Isaacs had an especially prominent role, or was one of the show's chief backers), so there's no obvious way to select a few key representatives from the list. Searching some of the names, most don't have Wikipedia articles, and are probably low-profile individuals, so giving the full list of recipients is probably not giving the reader much useful information.
On the other hand, for productions that do list only one or two producers, they tend to be notable, and their involvement with the show is likely to be covered in secondary sources, e.g.:
It seems a shame to deprive the reader of this useful information. So, options?
I think each of these comes with pretty significant downsides. Leaning slightly toward 4, since I think it best satisfies the goal of giving reader informative context, and discarding the information that veers in the direction of WP:INDISCRIMINATE. But it also creates work for editors, and may be hard to communicate to readers without WP:ASTONISHING them.
Thoughts? Also, a related issue: the tables of nominees and winners currently have columns for the writers of the show's book, music, and lyrics. This could easily mislead a casual reader into thinking that those people were the recipients of the award (based on ibdb, I think they were given the award before 1971, but now it's just producers). Does the benefit of the additional context provided by those names outweigh that risk of misleading? Colin M ( talk) 15:26, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
Actually, on further thought, I'm thinking maybe the status quo is best. Yes, the producers are technically listed as the winners on the Tony's website and ibdb, and they get to go on stage and receive the trophies, but RS coverage of the award almost universally refers to the award as being given to the play/musical itself, not the producers. Coverage will sometimes mention the producers of the show incidentally (e.g. from the New York Times: The Lion King, a daring mix of experimental techniques with a familiar story that was a critical success and a smashing financial one for the Walt Disney Company, won the Tony Award for best musical last night.
), but most of the time they're not even mentioned at all in coverage of the award.
Colin M (
talk) 15:54, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
Why is Ain't Too Proud credited as having music and lyrics by The Temptations? The Temptations did not write their own songs, and in fact I don't think they wrote any of the songs used in this musical. The Internet Broadway Database gives the following writing credits:
"The Legendary Motown Catalog" is not a person or group, so I would think we should credit the music and lyrics for Ain't Too Proud to "Various" as has been done with other jukebox musicals with multiple songwriters. -- Metropolitan90 (talk) 05:46, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
With the full listing of all producers on all nominated productions, the article has become messy, unfocused and cluttered, especially from the 2000's onward. It is not allowing readers (and I count myself in this) to easily and readily access the information they are most likely looking for. Going forward I would propose listing the lead producer only, with referencing linking to a full list of producers. Some recent productions such as NYNY have over 60 names listed as nominees, this just isn't sustainable for to list such a long list of names for every new musical. I refer to an earlier comment made by @ Colin M - "coverage of the award almost universally refers to the award as being given to the play/musical itself, not the producers. Coverage will sometimes mention the producers of the show incidentally" Mark E ( talk) 10:41, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
Hi,
I've been following the trail of the user Rocojo04 after encountering some of their edits elsewhere and it seems in September they basically decided to "make uniform" all the "ands" and "&s" in the writing credits of the tables here. I think you might know where my worry is if you know writing credit requirements in the US. As a result you may need to make a major reversion back to an August version of the article [1] as they've potentially completely destroyed the accuracy of the writing credits you had here. Rambling Rambler ( talk) 12:35, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Tony Award for Best Musical article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This subarticle is kept separate from the main article, Tony Awards, due to size or style considerations. |
Is there anything to actually say about this though? Zephyrprince 11:50, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I could probably add a very brief introduction (something like Tony Award for Best Original Score or Tony Award for Best Book of a Musical, but I don't really see it as being terribly necessary. The page is valuable as a list, and it's probably more useful to finish up the information on the nominees than to write a preamble. Kevin M Marshall 14:18, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Could we add a multiple win section like Tony Award for Best Original Score? MikeyB! 19:33, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
Since they are the ones who win this award, I will undertake at some point to change all the references. 24.149.45.52 ( talk) 04:12, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Tony Award for Best Musical. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 21:54, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
It seems counterintuitive not to list the actual winners/nominees on this page (the show's producers), but the problem is that, over the last 20 years or so, the number of producers listed per production has grown immensely (you can check for yourself at https://www.ibdb.com/awards). Before then, it was typically no more than a half dozen names, and often just one. The winners of the 2019 award (for Hadestown) were listed as:
Mara Isaacs, Dale Franzen, Hunter Arnold, Tom Kirdahy, Carl Daikeler, Five Fates, Willette & Manny Klausner, No Guarantees, Sing Out, Louise! Productions, Stone Arch Theatricals, Benjamin Lowy/Adrian Salpeter, Meredith Lynsey Schade, 42nd.club, Craig Balsam, Broadway Strategic Return Fund, Concord Theatricals, Laurie David, Demar Moritz Gang, Getter Entertainment, Deborah Green, Harris Rubin Productions, Sally Cade Holmes, Marguerite Hoffman, Hornos-Moellenberg, Independent Presenters Network, Jam Theatricals, Kalin Levine Dohr Productions, Phil & Claire Kenny, Mike Karns, Kilimanjaro Theatricals, Lady Capital, LD Entertainment, Sandi Moran, Tom Neff, MWM Live, Patti Sanford Roberts & Michael Roberts, Schroeder Shapiro Productions, Seriff Productions, Stage Entertainment, Kenneth & Rosemary Willman, KayLavLex Theatricals, Tyler Mount, Jujamcyn Theaters (Jordan Roth: President; Rocco Landesman: President Emeritus; Paul Libin: Executive Vice President Emeritus; Jack Viertel: Senior Vice President), The National Theatre, New York Theatre Workshop
The lists for the other nominees are of similar length. And unfortunately, it doesn't seem like they're in any meaningful order (i.e. I don't see any indication that Mara Isaacs had an especially prominent role, or was one of the show's chief backers), so there's no obvious way to select a few key representatives from the list. Searching some of the names, most don't have Wikipedia articles, and are probably low-profile individuals, so giving the full list of recipients is probably not giving the reader much useful information.
On the other hand, for productions that do list only one or two producers, they tend to be notable, and their involvement with the show is likely to be covered in secondary sources, e.g.:
It seems a shame to deprive the reader of this useful information. So, options?
I think each of these comes with pretty significant downsides. Leaning slightly toward 4, since I think it best satisfies the goal of giving reader informative context, and discarding the information that veers in the direction of WP:INDISCRIMINATE. But it also creates work for editors, and may be hard to communicate to readers without WP:ASTONISHING them.
Thoughts? Also, a related issue: the tables of nominees and winners currently have columns for the writers of the show's book, music, and lyrics. This could easily mislead a casual reader into thinking that those people were the recipients of the award (based on ibdb, I think they were given the award before 1971, but now it's just producers). Does the benefit of the additional context provided by those names outweigh that risk of misleading? Colin M ( talk) 15:26, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
Actually, on further thought, I'm thinking maybe the status quo is best. Yes, the producers are technically listed as the winners on the Tony's website and ibdb, and they get to go on stage and receive the trophies, but RS coverage of the award almost universally refers to the award as being given to the play/musical itself, not the producers. Coverage will sometimes mention the producers of the show incidentally (e.g. from the New York Times: The Lion King, a daring mix of experimental techniques with a familiar story that was a critical success and a smashing financial one for the Walt Disney Company, won the Tony Award for best musical last night.
), but most of the time they're not even mentioned at all in coverage of the award.
Colin M (
talk) 15:54, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
Why is Ain't Too Proud credited as having music and lyrics by The Temptations? The Temptations did not write their own songs, and in fact I don't think they wrote any of the songs used in this musical. The Internet Broadway Database gives the following writing credits:
"The Legendary Motown Catalog" is not a person or group, so I would think we should credit the music and lyrics for Ain't Too Proud to "Various" as has been done with other jukebox musicals with multiple songwriters. -- Metropolitan90 (talk) 05:46, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
With the full listing of all producers on all nominated productions, the article has become messy, unfocused and cluttered, especially from the 2000's onward. It is not allowing readers (and I count myself in this) to easily and readily access the information they are most likely looking for. Going forward I would propose listing the lead producer only, with referencing linking to a full list of producers. Some recent productions such as NYNY have over 60 names listed as nominees, this just isn't sustainable for to list such a long list of names for every new musical. I refer to an earlier comment made by @ Colin M - "coverage of the award almost universally refers to the award as being given to the play/musical itself, not the producers. Coverage will sometimes mention the producers of the show incidentally" Mark E ( talk) 10:41, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
Hi,
I've been following the trail of the user Rocojo04 after encountering some of their edits elsewhere and it seems in September they basically decided to "make uniform" all the "ands" and "&s" in the writing credits of the tables here. I think you might know where my worry is if you know writing credit requirements in the US. As a result you may need to make a major reversion back to an August version of the article [1] as they've potentially completely destroyed the accuracy of the writing credits you had here. Rambling Rambler ( talk) 12:35, 2 January 2024 (UTC)