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"The tomahawk subtracts where is was from where it should be, it now is."
What does this text in the article mean? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.18.180.146 ( talk) 10:20, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
I have heard that the native american tomahawk also had some inspiration from the francisca which was used extensively by french colonists. - DoobieEx — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.195.89.176 ( talk) 01:28, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus. -- Kjkolb 08:52, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
Tomahawk (axe) → Tomahawk – WP:NAME. A large number of pages already link to "Tomahawk", almost all of which refer to the axe. This is the only usage that does not require a qualifier, as it is the original usage. Alternate uses are at Tomahawk (disambiguation). Kafziel 14:16, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
I wait for comments, Angelpeream ( talk) 23:06, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Isn't there a better picture of a tomahawk? I've now spent a couple of minutes looking at this one, and I think I've figured out which bit is the tomahawk - but wouldn't it be better if there was a picture of *just* the tomahawk?
CatBoris
16:22, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Regarding the pictures: The lede states that the tomohawk is a native American weapons, but all the pictures are of modern iron/steel weapons. Ashmoo ( talk) 15:28, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
The American Indians used iron and steel blades more than stone after they began to have contact with Europeans. European Markets were hungry for fur, so the Indians wound up trading furs (they were good hunters and trappers) for European knives, tomahakws, guns, clothing, etc. Some stone axes no doubt existed before that, but spears, bows, and war clubs were more common. The tomahawk became a standard indian weapon only after trade with Europeans began. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.177.14.205 ( talk) 20:33, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
A show on the History Channel "Barbarian Battle Tech" said that the tomahawk was inspired by the fransisca brought over with the French. Perhaps they meant the fransisca influenced tomahawk design and not its origin (?). I would be curious to know if there are Native American axes that pre-date the French in North America which would contradict the fransisca inspiring tomahawk origin. Hal(unregistered) 75.34.103.92 03:47, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
The origin of the Tomahawk is definetely from French traders, trading the fransisca heads- without handles, as axe heads for premium trade goods, as early as the late 1500s. Champlain himself made regular comments in journals about how all the natives were armed using a bow and some arrows and a club noting no real metal work, especially- no steel or iron work. The french traded with many tribes but axe heads were especially given to those who were hostile to the English or specific tribes in NY that were hostile to the French or to gain the tribes favor. And the Odawa (Ottawa name means trader) located in eastern Michigan back then (early 1600s)would also trade these goods further out to the plains tribes. R Durand — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.63.120.110 ( talk) 09:24, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
The cited article doesn't say anything about that. -- 213.39.133.194 09:39, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
That article cites it's comeback to the military, page 3 of that article mentions it's use as a weapon. --
Mike Searson
15:12, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Mike Searson
21:21, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
In Australia at least, Tomahawk is a generic slang term for a small axe, generally used to chop of kindling or similar. I think this should be mentioned somewhere? I get the impression from this article that a tomahawk is solely an ancient weapon or a military weapon. (unsigned comment by 202.63.46.37)
By all means, this article about an American weapon should not have an American-centric view. That would just be silly. -Rob —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.177.13.193 ( talk) 01:23, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
Outside the US a tomahawk is just a small hatchet whose head slips onto a hasp, rather than being fitted the other way around with a split or wedge. Given that it most probably is a European tool and of entirely European design (I have spent longer than I care to admit researching this topic and cannot find a single native made tomahawk that is remotely comparable to an axe (they're mostly clubs and hammers, blunt and cannot cut, similar to neolithic European axes of tens of thousands of years ago - and then suddenly post settlement they're a francisca looking thing made of iron something the natives didn't have and didn't use for many centuries hence so 100% of tomahawks as we know them were made by western smiths to sell as trade goods to natives or as an 'exotic' indigenous 'weapon' to settlers - so basically it's marketing faff and a cool story like all them 'Bowie Knives' got that are nothing like what Bowie's knife probably looked like) it makes sense for the article to address this. I understand American's want to pretend it's an exotic Indian invention but there's no evidence to this outside of 'It is known, khaleesi.' type academic sources. There's zero extant archeological evidence to this. Everything points to European smiths making it for fellow settlers and as trade goods, nothing more. The modern tomahawk has zero relation to the indigenous tomahawk outside of borrowing it's name. Just as many tools names get borrowed and change and evolve. 2001:8003:2961:AD00:D872:AD50:B1A7:A343 ( talk) 10:44, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
Tomahawks are cool. So you dont want to mess ith a person with a Tomahawk. Respect the TOMAHAWK —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.163.48.225 ( talk) 23:14, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
Why is there no section on the tomahawk's symbolism?
If someone does do a piece on it's symbolism, they must include 2 of the following qualities:
1. Independence This is because the tomahawk/axe was used by the *common person* during the American Revolutionary War. (no, I'm not just saying this because I watched brave heart/patriot or last of the mohicans) It is also an extremely versatile tool accessible to the common person because of the manufacturing and purchasing cost. The ability to only use a $40 tool to build an entire cabin is a justifiable reason to say that the tomahawk is a symbol of independence.
2. Hard Work Do I really need to explain this one?
3. Peace It's 3 am, so I'm not gonna go too into this, but historically, it was used as a token of peace.
4. Durability I can't think of any other cutting tool that would last as long as an Axe. Seriously, I've used the same axe head for like, 20 years (several handle replacements). I've seen perfectly good axe heads that are 300 years old. The only thing that wasn't in good shape, was the handle, and those are easily replaceable.
Compare a 400 old axe head to a 200 year old sword. The axe head is in better shape, and it probably was used more than the sword. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ForeverQuixotic ( talk • contribs) 09:51, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
Paddleblade
Paddleblade (
talk)
02:48, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
Hi,
What about chosing, for the introduction, a photo of a classical tomahawk rather than a modern reinvention? What about one those two images from the NARA :
El Comandante ( talk) 10:44, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
Those are both iron tomahawks made by western settlers, and would be deemed a "modern reinvention". I would argue it's not a reinvention though. Look to museum examples of the stone tomahawks and compare them to the iron tomahawks. Utterly unrelated. Not even remotely similar. I wouldn't even call the stone tomahawk an effective axe, a club perhaps, or a stone hammer. But definitely not an axe. You couldn't cut anything with it. However the iron axe called a tomahawk that was probably brought over from Europe and sold as tourist faff or traded to the natives as a trade tool is entirely a modern invention post settler arrival in the USA. 2001:8003:2961:AD00:D872:AD50:B1A7:A343 ( talk) 10:39, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
Hi,
I regret there is no o bibliography, and that just magazine articles are quoted. I'm pretty sure it's possible to find more reliable sources : historians and archaeologists must have published descriptions of tomahawks and their usages.
El Comandante ( talk) 10:44, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
It seems to me like as far as many of the images are concerned they feature abundant images of modern tomahawks (with suspiciously promotional-sounding captions for the companies that created them) and no depictions whatsoever of any stone tomahawks. Peter Deer ( talk) 01:40, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
This picture is captioned as a example of a person with a "wooden knob-headed tomahawk." This doesn't seem any more like a tomahawk than a hammer would be. Isn't this just a mace or some other form of club? If we're defining a tomahawk as a type of axe, the pictured weapon doesn't seem to fit the bill. -- BDD ( talk) 00:30, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
—Colin F. Taylor, Native American Weapons, University of Oklahoma Press (2001), p. 30.The word tomahawk was originally applied to a group of striking weapons which were commonly and anciently used by the Algonquian and Iroquoian tribes of eastern North America. Early colonists mention the word from this region — with slight variations — as "tomahack" or "tommahick," whilst the Mahican referred to such weapons as "tumnahecan." The wooden ballheaded club at this time was also generally referred to as a "tomahawk"
—Ray Louis, "Tools and Weaponry of the Frontiersman and Indian"The earliest definitions of these words (early 1600s) applied to stone-headed implements used as tools and weapons. Subsequent references involved all manner of striking weapons: wood clubs, stone-headed axes, metal trade hatchets, etc. As the years passed a tomahawk was thought of as any Indian-owned hatchet-type instrument. That association changed somewhat as white frontiersmen (traders, trappers, explorers) came to rely on the tomahawk as standard equipment.
74.5.20.113 ( talk) 20:22, 11 July 2013 (UTC) Answer: Yes, but unfortunately Collin Taylor was not a major authority on tomahawks and his reference is an old one and in error. Taylor sourced to Holmes in Hodge Ed. 1910 which does not describe the wooden war club as a tomahawk; that was McCulloh's Researches (1829) & is of much later date that the preceding. This source was poorly translated so it made into Hodges book. Holmes never referenced it that way & Taylor was in error in his reference. Hodge references from many different tribes and accounts and amalgamated them together as if they were all translated correctly. They were not. See Gerard in Am. Anthr., IX, No. 1, 1907 & Holmes in Am. Anthr., X, No. 2, 1908. He meant (or should have meant) any cutting type striking weapon with an edge whether it be stone/steel/iron or otherwise. That is what Smith reported from Virginia in his journals. War clubs were never referred to as "tomahawks" by anyone. Ray Louis reference is a recent article. Seriously? Just because it got published somewhere does not make it true. That is the trouble with people writing authoritatively about things they have no real knowledge of using half-understood minor references, poor translations & magazine articles. Misinformation snowballs into internet fact in no time at all. Perhaps someone knowledgeable about tomahawks should be writing about tomahawks rather than some student doing it like a book report. People SADLY depend on these definitions and are being mislead. I would recommend Harold Peterson's book American Indian Tomahawks 1971 as a primary reference on the subject although there are others. 74.5.20.113 ( talk) 20:22, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
I'm disappointed that there is no discussion in this article of how the tomahawk was traditionally used in the Americas. It composition is described, and then there is a discussion of modern use. But the weapon has been in use for ages; why is there no detail about this? 71.58.209.95 ( talk) 04:20, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
74.5.20.113 ( talk) 20:20, 11 July 2013 (UTC)I agree. This should have been the center of the article. This is probably the worst written article I have ever seen on Wikipedia. Shameful. Either do it right or step aside for someone who can. 74.5.20.113 ( talk) 20:20, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
It really hasn't been in use for ages, it sprung up out of nowhere. It's most probably a European invention that comes with a neat marketing spiel because European settlers in America held the natives with some borderline religious or esoteric "deep wisdom" esteem. Look at the average American today; they picture the natives as peaceful, living at one with nature, riding horses, with complex leather clothing and woven materials, iron axes on their hip, and self bows to hunt with. None of these things are remotely true, everything mentioned is imported technology and the damage that the natives did to the environment was not matched by the settlers until the industrial age arrived. Almost all the American image of natives there is constructed from wholecloth from penny fiction sellers, storywriters, newsmen, and later Hollywood. It sold a lot of faff though to tourists and settlers alike. It was a very, very rich industry. I spent months trying to research this topic and kept hitting dead ends when I found extant archeological finds of axes from natives. They look NOTHING like a tomahawk, and barely look like a usable axe at all. They are comparable to the axes we find circa 25,000 years ago. The modern iron tomahawk is to the stone axes in museums like comparing a bird to an F35. They are utterly unrelated besides vaguely having a visual similarity if you drink a lot of alcohol and squint. I am almost 100% convinced from primary sources that these are a western European invention that was retconned with a neat story to sell tourist faff. Nothing more. 2001:8003:2961:AD00:D872:AD50:B1A7:A343 ( talk) 10:36, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
I removed all of the manufacturers which did not have articles or whose articles did not mention tomahawks here. Please provide sources if reading them. Meters ( talk) 19:34, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: move. ( non-admin closure) f e minist 14:09, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
The previous move discussions here and at Talk:Tomahawk did not address coverage by reliable sources as a criterion for determining the primary topic. Of searched books using tomahawk to refer to a physical object, nearly all mean the axe. Recent events notwithstanding, referring to the axe is still the historical primary use of tomahawk. — Sangdeboeuf ( talk) 06:11, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
Can add "Prey" to this list, as it features prominently. 98.116.198.6 ( talk) 05:23, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
The Penn Museum has some good modern articles about pipe tomahawks that could be used as a higher quality source to reference. 173.81.81.153 ( talk) 23:01, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
I just wanted to point out the glaring error on the topic of origin. The article claims it was an indigenous invention of America. Yet no amount of research yields any stone tomahawks as described looking remotely anything like what we all know as a tomahawk today. It appears that whilst they had stone axes this was a purely European settler invented trade tool, and that the natives either assumed ownership of it, or the settlers retconned it to being native for mysticism and higher selling novelty to other settlers.
There is nothing remotely in the museums of indigenous design that looks anything like a tomahawk, nor any functional form of axe. The knapped stone axeheads look more like clubs (I am unsure if it's because of the lack of good knappable flint in your country but the lumpy rock heads I see presented as indigenous artifacts are absolutely ineffective axes and nothing remotely like a tomahawk).
This is sort of like saying because Leonardo Davinci drew some men with feathery wings and made some models that he invented the F35. The technological leap between indigenous "Tomahawk" versus what we know today as a tomahawk is many, MANY thousands of years of R&D difference. There is no feasible way that this is an indigenous invention, nor remotely related to the indigenous version of the tomahawk. Thus it's origin comes down to assumption by the native population (which is common, look at horseback riding, saddles, tanned leather, weaving, advanced pottery, etc and other settler brought tech that has been assumed into culture and retconned unknowingly) or worse, it was carpet baggers trying to sell cashing in on the fetishization of the "exotic" by pretending it's based on the natives designs. I suspect the latter is most probable, specifically because I have in mind the Bowie knife, when asked to make a Bowie knife EVERY blacksmith knew vaguely what they wanted, but not one of them had a clue what they were making, or if it was authentic, but probably had a neat story to tell their buyers!
Now take into account that this axe looks like many thousands of extant archeological finds identical to it's shape and design all over Europe we have a stronger case that this is a marketing retcon. I am not American so I presume that there will be some sensitivity around this topic with Americans however I am an academic and I can't stand idly by when something patently absurd is being presented as fact when it is obvious to anyone that it is incorrect. 2001:8003:2961:AD00:D872:AD50:B1A7:A343 ( talk) 10:31, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Tomahawk article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
"The tomahawk subtracts where is was from where it should be, it now is."
What does this text in the article mean? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.18.180.146 ( talk) 10:20, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
I have heard that the native american tomahawk also had some inspiration from the francisca which was used extensively by french colonists. - DoobieEx — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.195.89.176 ( talk) 01:28, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus. -- Kjkolb 08:52, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
Tomahawk (axe) → Tomahawk – WP:NAME. A large number of pages already link to "Tomahawk", almost all of which refer to the axe. This is the only usage that does not require a qualifier, as it is the original usage. Alternate uses are at Tomahawk (disambiguation). Kafziel 14:16, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
I wait for comments, Angelpeream ( talk) 23:06, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Isn't there a better picture of a tomahawk? I've now spent a couple of minutes looking at this one, and I think I've figured out which bit is the tomahawk - but wouldn't it be better if there was a picture of *just* the tomahawk?
CatBoris
16:22, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Regarding the pictures: The lede states that the tomohawk is a native American weapons, but all the pictures are of modern iron/steel weapons. Ashmoo ( talk) 15:28, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
The American Indians used iron and steel blades more than stone after they began to have contact with Europeans. European Markets were hungry for fur, so the Indians wound up trading furs (they were good hunters and trappers) for European knives, tomahakws, guns, clothing, etc. Some stone axes no doubt existed before that, but spears, bows, and war clubs were more common. The tomahawk became a standard indian weapon only after trade with Europeans began. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.177.14.205 ( talk) 20:33, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
A show on the History Channel "Barbarian Battle Tech" said that the tomahawk was inspired by the fransisca brought over with the French. Perhaps they meant the fransisca influenced tomahawk design and not its origin (?). I would be curious to know if there are Native American axes that pre-date the French in North America which would contradict the fransisca inspiring tomahawk origin. Hal(unregistered) 75.34.103.92 03:47, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
The origin of the Tomahawk is definetely from French traders, trading the fransisca heads- without handles, as axe heads for premium trade goods, as early as the late 1500s. Champlain himself made regular comments in journals about how all the natives were armed using a bow and some arrows and a club noting no real metal work, especially- no steel or iron work. The french traded with many tribes but axe heads were especially given to those who were hostile to the English or specific tribes in NY that were hostile to the French or to gain the tribes favor. And the Odawa (Ottawa name means trader) located in eastern Michigan back then (early 1600s)would also trade these goods further out to the plains tribes. R Durand — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.63.120.110 ( talk) 09:24, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
The cited article doesn't say anything about that. -- 213.39.133.194 09:39, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
That article cites it's comeback to the military, page 3 of that article mentions it's use as a weapon. --
Mike Searson
15:12, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Mike Searson
21:21, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
In Australia at least, Tomahawk is a generic slang term for a small axe, generally used to chop of kindling or similar. I think this should be mentioned somewhere? I get the impression from this article that a tomahawk is solely an ancient weapon or a military weapon. (unsigned comment by 202.63.46.37)
By all means, this article about an American weapon should not have an American-centric view. That would just be silly. -Rob —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.177.13.193 ( talk) 01:23, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
Outside the US a tomahawk is just a small hatchet whose head slips onto a hasp, rather than being fitted the other way around with a split or wedge. Given that it most probably is a European tool and of entirely European design (I have spent longer than I care to admit researching this topic and cannot find a single native made tomahawk that is remotely comparable to an axe (they're mostly clubs and hammers, blunt and cannot cut, similar to neolithic European axes of tens of thousands of years ago - and then suddenly post settlement they're a francisca looking thing made of iron something the natives didn't have and didn't use for many centuries hence so 100% of tomahawks as we know them were made by western smiths to sell as trade goods to natives or as an 'exotic' indigenous 'weapon' to settlers - so basically it's marketing faff and a cool story like all them 'Bowie Knives' got that are nothing like what Bowie's knife probably looked like) it makes sense for the article to address this. I understand American's want to pretend it's an exotic Indian invention but there's no evidence to this outside of 'It is known, khaleesi.' type academic sources. There's zero extant archeological evidence to this. Everything points to European smiths making it for fellow settlers and as trade goods, nothing more. The modern tomahawk has zero relation to the indigenous tomahawk outside of borrowing it's name. Just as many tools names get borrowed and change and evolve. 2001:8003:2961:AD00:D872:AD50:B1A7:A343 ( talk) 10:44, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
Tomahawks are cool. So you dont want to mess ith a person with a Tomahawk. Respect the TOMAHAWK —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.163.48.225 ( talk) 23:14, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
Why is there no section on the tomahawk's symbolism?
If someone does do a piece on it's symbolism, they must include 2 of the following qualities:
1. Independence This is because the tomahawk/axe was used by the *common person* during the American Revolutionary War. (no, I'm not just saying this because I watched brave heart/patriot or last of the mohicans) It is also an extremely versatile tool accessible to the common person because of the manufacturing and purchasing cost. The ability to only use a $40 tool to build an entire cabin is a justifiable reason to say that the tomahawk is a symbol of independence.
2. Hard Work Do I really need to explain this one?
3. Peace It's 3 am, so I'm not gonna go too into this, but historically, it was used as a token of peace.
4. Durability I can't think of any other cutting tool that would last as long as an Axe. Seriously, I've used the same axe head for like, 20 years (several handle replacements). I've seen perfectly good axe heads that are 300 years old. The only thing that wasn't in good shape, was the handle, and those are easily replaceable.
Compare a 400 old axe head to a 200 year old sword. The axe head is in better shape, and it probably was used more than the sword. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ForeverQuixotic ( talk • contribs) 09:51, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
Paddleblade
Paddleblade (
talk)
02:48, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
Hi,
What about chosing, for the introduction, a photo of a classical tomahawk rather than a modern reinvention? What about one those two images from the NARA :
El Comandante ( talk) 10:44, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
Those are both iron tomahawks made by western settlers, and would be deemed a "modern reinvention". I would argue it's not a reinvention though. Look to museum examples of the stone tomahawks and compare them to the iron tomahawks. Utterly unrelated. Not even remotely similar. I wouldn't even call the stone tomahawk an effective axe, a club perhaps, or a stone hammer. But definitely not an axe. You couldn't cut anything with it. However the iron axe called a tomahawk that was probably brought over from Europe and sold as tourist faff or traded to the natives as a trade tool is entirely a modern invention post settler arrival in the USA. 2001:8003:2961:AD00:D872:AD50:B1A7:A343 ( talk) 10:39, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
Hi,
I regret there is no o bibliography, and that just magazine articles are quoted. I'm pretty sure it's possible to find more reliable sources : historians and archaeologists must have published descriptions of tomahawks and their usages.
El Comandante ( talk) 10:44, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
It seems to me like as far as many of the images are concerned they feature abundant images of modern tomahawks (with suspiciously promotional-sounding captions for the companies that created them) and no depictions whatsoever of any stone tomahawks. Peter Deer ( talk) 01:40, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
This picture is captioned as a example of a person with a "wooden knob-headed tomahawk." This doesn't seem any more like a tomahawk than a hammer would be. Isn't this just a mace or some other form of club? If we're defining a tomahawk as a type of axe, the pictured weapon doesn't seem to fit the bill. -- BDD ( talk) 00:30, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
—Colin F. Taylor, Native American Weapons, University of Oklahoma Press (2001), p. 30.The word tomahawk was originally applied to a group of striking weapons which were commonly and anciently used by the Algonquian and Iroquoian tribes of eastern North America. Early colonists mention the word from this region — with slight variations — as "tomahack" or "tommahick," whilst the Mahican referred to such weapons as "tumnahecan." The wooden ballheaded club at this time was also generally referred to as a "tomahawk"
—Ray Louis, "Tools and Weaponry of the Frontiersman and Indian"The earliest definitions of these words (early 1600s) applied to stone-headed implements used as tools and weapons. Subsequent references involved all manner of striking weapons: wood clubs, stone-headed axes, metal trade hatchets, etc. As the years passed a tomahawk was thought of as any Indian-owned hatchet-type instrument. That association changed somewhat as white frontiersmen (traders, trappers, explorers) came to rely on the tomahawk as standard equipment.
74.5.20.113 ( talk) 20:22, 11 July 2013 (UTC) Answer: Yes, but unfortunately Collin Taylor was not a major authority on tomahawks and his reference is an old one and in error. Taylor sourced to Holmes in Hodge Ed. 1910 which does not describe the wooden war club as a tomahawk; that was McCulloh's Researches (1829) & is of much later date that the preceding. This source was poorly translated so it made into Hodges book. Holmes never referenced it that way & Taylor was in error in his reference. Hodge references from many different tribes and accounts and amalgamated them together as if they were all translated correctly. They were not. See Gerard in Am. Anthr., IX, No. 1, 1907 & Holmes in Am. Anthr., X, No. 2, 1908. He meant (or should have meant) any cutting type striking weapon with an edge whether it be stone/steel/iron or otherwise. That is what Smith reported from Virginia in his journals. War clubs were never referred to as "tomahawks" by anyone. Ray Louis reference is a recent article. Seriously? Just because it got published somewhere does not make it true. That is the trouble with people writing authoritatively about things they have no real knowledge of using half-understood minor references, poor translations & magazine articles. Misinformation snowballs into internet fact in no time at all. Perhaps someone knowledgeable about tomahawks should be writing about tomahawks rather than some student doing it like a book report. People SADLY depend on these definitions and are being mislead. I would recommend Harold Peterson's book American Indian Tomahawks 1971 as a primary reference on the subject although there are others. 74.5.20.113 ( talk) 20:22, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
I'm disappointed that there is no discussion in this article of how the tomahawk was traditionally used in the Americas. It composition is described, and then there is a discussion of modern use. But the weapon has been in use for ages; why is there no detail about this? 71.58.209.95 ( talk) 04:20, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
74.5.20.113 ( talk) 20:20, 11 July 2013 (UTC)I agree. This should have been the center of the article. This is probably the worst written article I have ever seen on Wikipedia. Shameful. Either do it right or step aside for someone who can. 74.5.20.113 ( talk) 20:20, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
It really hasn't been in use for ages, it sprung up out of nowhere. It's most probably a European invention that comes with a neat marketing spiel because European settlers in America held the natives with some borderline religious or esoteric "deep wisdom" esteem. Look at the average American today; they picture the natives as peaceful, living at one with nature, riding horses, with complex leather clothing and woven materials, iron axes on their hip, and self bows to hunt with. None of these things are remotely true, everything mentioned is imported technology and the damage that the natives did to the environment was not matched by the settlers until the industrial age arrived. Almost all the American image of natives there is constructed from wholecloth from penny fiction sellers, storywriters, newsmen, and later Hollywood. It sold a lot of faff though to tourists and settlers alike. It was a very, very rich industry. I spent months trying to research this topic and kept hitting dead ends when I found extant archeological finds of axes from natives. They look NOTHING like a tomahawk, and barely look like a usable axe at all. They are comparable to the axes we find circa 25,000 years ago. The modern iron tomahawk is to the stone axes in museums like comparing a bird to an F35. They are utterly unrelated besides vaguely having a visual similarity if you drink a lot of alcohol and squint. I am almost 100% convinced from primary sources that these are a western European invention that was retconned with a neat story to sell tourist faff. Nothing more. 2001:8003:2961:AD00:D872:AD50:B1A7:A343 ( talk) 10:36, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
I removed all of the manufacturers which did not have articles or whose articles did not mention tomahawks here. Please provide sources if reading them. Meters ( talk) 19:34, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: move. ( non-admin closure) f e minist 14:09, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
The previous move discussions here and at Talk:Tomahawk did not address coverage by reliable sources as a criterion for determining the primary topic. Of searched books using tomahawk to refer to a physical object, nearly all mean the axe. Recent events notwithstanding, referring to the axe is still the historical primary use of tomahawk. — Sangdeboeuf ( talk) 06:11, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
Can add "Prey" to this list, as it features prominently. 98.116.198.6 ( talk) 05:23, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
The Penn Museum has some good modern articles about pipe tomahawks that could be used as a higher quality source to reference. 173.81.81.153 ( talk) 23:01, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
I just wanted to point out the glaring error on the topic of origin. The article claims it was an indigenous invention of America. Yet no amount of research yields any stone tomahawks as described looking remotely anything like what we all know as a tomahawk today. It appears that whilst they had stone axes this was a purely European settler invented trade tool, and that the natives either assumed ownership of it, or the settlers retconned it to being native for mysticism and higher selling novelty to other settlers.
There is nothing remotely in the museums of indigenous design that looks anything like a tomahawk, nor any functional form of axe. The knapped stone axeheads look more like clubs (I am unsure if it's because of the lack of good knappable flint in your country but the lumpy rock heads I see presented as indigenous artifacts are absolutely ineffective axes and nothing remotely like a tomahawk).
This is sort of like saying because Leonardo Davinci drew some men with feathery wings and made some models that he invented the F35. The technological leap between indigenous "Tomahawk" versus what we know today as a tomahawk is many, MANY thousands of years of R&D difference. There is no feasible way that this is an indigenous invention, nor remotely related to the indigenous version of the tomahawk. Thus it's origin comes down to assumption by the native population (which is common, look at horseback riding, saddles, tanned leather, weaving, advanced pottery, etc and other settler brought tech that has been assumed into culture and retconned unknowingly) or worse, it was carpet baggers trying to sell cashing in on the fetishization of the "exotic" by pretending it's based on the natives designs. I suspect the latter is most probable, specifically because I have in mind the Bowie knife, when asked to make a Bowie knife EVERY blacksmith knew vaguely what they wanted, but not one of them had a clue what they were making, or if it was authentic, but probably had a neat story to tell their buyers!
Now take into account that this axe looks like many thousands of extant archeological finds identical to it's shape and design all over Europe we have a stronger case that this is a marketing retcon. I am not American so I presume that there will be some sensitivity around this topic with Americans however I am an academic and I can't stand idly by when something patently absurd is being presented as fact when it is obvious to anyone that it is incorrect. 2001:8003:2961:AD00:D872:AD50:B1A7:A343 ( talk) 10:31, 19 September 2023 (UTC)