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I seem to recall one time Paulin having quite a rant about the talents (or rather lack of them) of Alain De Botton in an episode of Newsnight Review, which was passed over by host Mark Lawson and his fellow guests. Is there more to this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.31.3.50 ( talk • contribs).
This is not, IMO, a very good article, if only because it leaves out scads of information about Paulin. There is no attempt to register critical response to him as a poet, for example. His critical writings have been largely ignored. It is mostly about Paulin the TV personality. I am no great fan of the man's work; my admiration for his stuff is confined to some of the poetry he published in the 1980s, and I have little time for his criticism and no time at all for the cantankerous TV persona. Nevertheless this article is in my opinion in violation of WP:NPOV, and requires improvement. The section on his alleged anti-Semitism is especially slanted. The section in question appears to have been edited by someone who was working from the presupposition that anyone who is anti-Zionist (whatever that might mean) is therefore anti-Semitic. That presupposition is at least arguable. In the meantime, Paulin's highly positive review of Anthony Julius's scathingly critical book on T.S. Eliot's evident but arguably latent anti-Semitism is not mentioned at all.
I am not proposing that the article should not mention that some people (who, exactly?) appear to have perceived that Paulin is anti-Semitic. Some people think he is, even though I think they're wrong. But as it reads now, the article's general tendency is IMO to suggest that he is anti-Semitic. It appears to depend on your definition of "anti-Semitism". I think that the evidence suggests that he isn't, but in any case, wikipedia standards demand that the article should not try to come down on one side or other, but should instead reflect the nature of the controversy. Lexo ( talk) 00:16, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
As Zionism is the belief in the Jewish right of self-determination, after centuries of persecution, then Paulin's open hostility towards Israel - the predominantly Jewish state - is, ultimately, anti-Semitic. He belongs to a large anti-Jewish movement that is prevalent in Ireland, where they have never really accepted the Papal decree of 1965 that the Jews did not kill Jesus Christ (an Israeli Jew). AR. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.186.22.114 ( talk) 08:25, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
I just removed a duplicate quote in the same section: "Paulin has described himself as a lifelong opponent of anti-Semitism, and also stated that he does not support attacks on Israeli citizens under any circumstances." It wasn't clear from my edit summary. Span ( talk) 01:21, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
This Paulin subsequently said that his views were "distorted". In a letter to The Independent, Paulin wrote: "I have been, and am, a lifelong opponent of anti-Semitism ... I do not support attacks on Israeli civilians under any circumstances."[6]" refers to material that was deleted. That is unacceptable. - Cwobeel (talk) 17:01, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Is the "Controversy" section in this BLP as of 17:00 8 Sep 2014 [2] of proper, insufficient, or excessive weight to the entire BLP? Does the section as constituted comply with WP:NPOV? 17:07, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
The issue is clear, IMO, and should await people who have not heretofore examined this BLP. Collect ( talk) 17:07, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
http://www.inminds.com/boycott-news-0038.html contains an article purporting to come from The Independent. It was being used as a reference in this article. However, no such article exists in the newspaper's online archive for 28 April 2002, or a day either side of that date. It is written in a suspiciously amateurish style, and when one googles copies of sections of the text, all that is found is the inminds webpage. For example: [3] [4] Because of this I think it is a fake article, and I have deleted it. Tiptoethrutheminefield ( talk) 02:36, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
Lexis has a match for this in the Independent on Sunday (London), April 28, 2002, page 7. Comparing the two texts for a few seconds, they appear identical. I have the results (4 news articles matching "Mendick and Tom Paulin" between 2000 to 2005) as a pdf, if anyone wants a copy for research purposes please email me. Due to copyright concerns I should not publish the results. Thanks -- Fæ ( talk) 07:35, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
The text now reads: After his comments in Al-Ahram appeared to wish “Brooklyn--born Jewish settlers” to be shot dead.
This is the full quote: ""They should be shot dead," he says forcefully. "I think they are Nazis, racists, I feel nothing but hatred for them." - I don't think we can report that his comments "appeared to wish". - Cwobeel (talk) 03:07, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I seem to recall one time Paulin having quite a rant about the talents (or rather lack of them) of Alain De Botton in an episode of Newsnight Review, which was passed over by host Mark Lawson and his fellow guests. Is there more to this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.31.3.50 ( talk • contribs).
This is not, IMO, a very good article, if only because it leaves out scads of information about Paulin. There is no attempt to register critical response to him as a poet, for example. His critical writings have been largely ignored. It is mostly about Paulin the TV personality. I am no great fan of the man's work; my admiration for his stuff is confined to some of the poetry he published in the 1980s, and I have little time for his criticism and no time at all for the cantankerous TV persona. Nevertheless this article is in my opinion in violation of WP:NPOV, and requires improvement. The section on his alleged anti-Semitism is especially slanted. The section in question appears to have been edited by someone who was working from the presupposition that anyone who is anti-Zionist (whatever that might mean) is therefore anti-Semitic. That presupposition is at least arguable. In the meantime, Paulin's highly positive review of Anthony Julius's scathingly critical book on T.S. Eliot's evident but arguably latent anti-Semitism is not mentioned at all.
I am not proposing that the article should not mention that some people (who, exactly?) appear to have perceived that Paulin is anti-Semitic. Some people think he is, even though I think they're wrong. But as it reads now, the article's general tendency is IMO to suggest that he is anti-Semitic. It appears to depend on your definition of "anti-Semitism". I think that the evidence suggests that he isn't, but in any case, wikipedia standards demand that the article should not try to come down on one side or other, but should instead reflect the nature of the controversy. Lexo ( talk) 00:16, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
As Zionism is the belief in the Jewish right of self-determination, after centuries of persecution, then Paulin's open hostility towards Israel - the predominantly Jewish state - is, ultimately, anti-Semitic. He belongs to a large anti-Jewish movement that is prevalent in Ireland, where they have never really accepted the Papal decree of 1965 that the Jews did not kill Jesus Christ (an Israeli Jew). AR. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.186.22.114 ( talk) 08:25, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
I just removed a duplicate quote in the same section: "Paulin has described himself as a lifelong opponent of anti-Semitism, and also stated that he does not support attacks on Israeli citizens under any circumstances." It wasn't clear from my edit summary. Span ( talk) 01:21, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
This Paulin subsequently said that his views were "distorted". In a letter to The Independent, Paulin wrote: "I have been, and am, a lifelong opponent of anti-Semitism ... I do not support attacks on Israeli civilians under any circumstances."[6]" refers to material that was deleted. That is unacceptable. - Cwobeel (talk) 17:01, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Is the "Controversy" section in this BLP as of 17:00 8 Sep 2014 [2] of proper, insufficient, or excessive weight to the entire BLP? Does the section as constituted comply with WP:NPOV? 17:07, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
The issue is clear, IMO, and should await people who have not heretofore examined this BLP. Collect ( talk) 17:07, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
http://www.inminds.com/boycott-news-0038.html contains an article purporting to come from The Independent. It was being used as a reference in this article. However, no such article exists in the newspaper's online archive for 28 April 2002, or a day either side of that date. It is written in a suspiciously amateurish style, and when one googles copies of sections of the text, all that is found is the inminds webpage. For example: [3] [4] Because of this I think it is a fake article, and I have deleted it. Tiptoethrutheminefield ( talk) 02:36, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
Lexis has a match for this in the Independent on Sunday (London), April 28, 2002, page 7. Comparing the two texts for a few seconds, they appear identical. I have the results (4 news articles matching "Mendick and Tom Paulin" between 2000 to 2005) as a pdf, if anyone wants a copy for research purposes please email me. Due to copyright concerns I should not publish the results. Thanks -- Fæ ( talk) 07:35, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
The text now reads: After his comments in Al-Ahram appeared to wish “Brooklyn--born Jewish settlers” to be shot dead.
This is the full quote: ""They should be shot dead," he says forcefully. "I think they are Nazis, racists, I feel nothing but hatred for them." - I don't think we can report that his comments "appeared to wish". - Cwobeel (talk) 03:07, 10 September 2014 (UTC)