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Is there something wrong with Alfred Thompson Denning, Lord Denning of Whitchurch? -- Kaihsu 15:58, 2004 May 28 (UTC)
I think it's probably most appropriate to move all the quotes to wikiquote. I think it's important to show some quotes since part of the real charm of Denning is his writing style. However, I don't think large blocks of quote really fit well here. I suspect it was a large factor in getting denied as a Feature Candidate. I hope no one objects. Please feel free to give some suggestions. Cheers! PullUpYourSocks 03:00, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Britannica has it as "Denning, Alfred Thompson Denning, Baron", though I agree that the current name is a little clumsy. The suggested move brings it into line with List of cases involving Lord Denning but out of line with other similar articles, like Quintin Hogg, Baron Hailsham of St Marylebone (though it is at the moment anyway). violet/riga (t) 19:42, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)
What Timrollpickering says. Near every peer is best known as "Lord Soandso". We can't put articles there, because that would make a mess. We have clear standards for articles on peers, and this fits in with that perfectly well. Note that Lord Byron is at George Gordon Byron, 6th Baron Byron, Lord Tennyson is at Alfred Tennyson, 1st Baron Tennyson, and so forth. john k 15:21, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I don't understand what you are talking about. Surely Lord Denning, whom I had never heard of until this dispute, is not better known than Lord Byron or Lord Palmerston, or any of the many other Barons, Viscounts, Earls, and Marquesses known as "Lord Soandso." I see nothing in this particular case that justifies revision of our general peerage naming conventions. john k 18:12, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
This doesn't make any sense. Palmerston wasn't even in the House of Lords, since he was an Irish Peer. He is famous as Lord Palmerston because that is what you call someone who is a Viscount. Similarly, Lord Byron is called Lord Byron not because his hereditary peerage was particularly important, but simply because this is what a baron is called by. It is exactly the same situation as with Lord Denning. He is famous, and is mostly known as Lord Denning. he is called Lord Denning because he was a life peer. And he is mostly known as Lord Denning, because that is what judges who are lords are mostly known by. Conrad Black became famous before he was a lord, and is mostly known as Conrad Black, although he's occasionally called Lord Black. Basically, we have two options for peers. If the peer is not known by their peerage title, you use their name, e.g. Conrad Black, Harold Macmillan, Margaret Thatcher, and so forth. If they are best known as "Lord Soandso," they go at their name and peerage title, as George Gordon Byron, 6th Baron Byron, Alfred Denning, Baron Denning, Charlie Falconer, Baron Falconer of Thoroton, Henry John Temple, 3rd Viscount Palmerston. Those are your options. In this case, the proper place is very clear, as you yourself point out. He is known as Lord Denning. Therefore, he goes at Alfred Denning, Baron Denning. If you think this is a bad convention, you're welcome to try and get it changed (although I know that I would argue against the change). But this particular example is very clearly not one where an exception to a general rule should be made. john k 20:49, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Lord Denning is simply what he is referred to because he was a baron. This is absolutely no different from Lord Byron, which is just as recognized, and referring to a far more famous figure. This page is exactly where it should be. john k 06:00, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. violet/riga (t) 19:20, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The "poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown" passage is not a very good illustration of Lord Denning's unusual prose style, as it was in fact delivered in a speech by William Pitt the elder, in the 18th century.
England and Scotland do not have the same law though other parts of the United Kingdom -- Northern Ireland and Wales, inter alia -- do. He was not a British lawyer and judge but an English one. (As various countries of the Commonwealth, once the British Empire, have law other than English law: Sri Lanka and South Africa Dutch; the province of Quebec in Canada French.) Would it not be more accurate to put it that way, English rather than British? Masalai ( talk) 03:59, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
The "Foreign travels" section of the article states that Denning "...spoke at a student meeting at the University of Sydney; while the previous speaker received a slow hand-clap, Denning was given a standing ovation and the student law society was named the Denning Law Society in his honour". I thought this was quite odd, because the University of Sydney's law society is (naturally) called the Sydney University Law Society. I googled "Denning Law Society", and the only references I could find are to an organisation in Tanzania. Ditto "Denning Society" - there's one in the UK associated with Lincoln's Inn, but nothing in Australia. Ivar the Boneful ( talk) 16:52, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
I am more looking for guidance. It seems a convention on here that judges who have gone beyond Lord/Lady Justice do not have their High Court appointment in the infobox. While in principle, it's certainly an achievement of note, I could see that it makes the infobox rather cluttered. Is there any direction on this? Perennial Student ( talk) 23:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
Do we know when he last attended a sitting of the Lords? 84.167.80.80 ( talk) 17:58, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Tom Denning, Baron Denning article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1Auto-archiving period: 180 days
![]() |
![]() | This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | Tom Denning, Baron Denning has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Is there something wrong with Alfred Thompson Denning, Lord Denning of Whitchurch? -- Kaihsu 15:58, 2004 May 28 (UTC)
I think it's probably most appropriate to move all the quotes to wikiquote. I think it's important to show some quotes since part of the real charm of Denning is his writing style. However, I don't think large blocks of quote really fit well here. I suspect it was a large factor in getting denied as a Feature Candidate. I hope no one objects. Please feel free to give some suggestions. Cheers! PullUpYourSocks 03:00, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Britannica has it as "Denning, Alfred Thompson Denning, Baron", though I agree that the current name is a little clumsy. The suggested move brings it into line with List of cases involving Lord Denning but out of line with other similar articles, like Quintin Hogg, Baron Hailsham of St Marylebone (though it is at the moment anyway). violet/riga (t) 19:42, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)
What Timrollpickering says. Near every peer is best known as "Lord Soandso". We can't put articles there, because that would make a mess. We have clear standards for articles on peers, and this fits in with that perfectly well. Note that Lord Byron is at George Gordon Byron, 6th Baron Byron, Lord Tennyson is at Alfred Tennyson, 1st Baron Tennyson, and so forth. john k 15:21, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I don't understand what you are talking about. Surely Lord Denning, whom I had never heard of until this dispute, is not better known than Lord Byron or Lord Palmerston, or any of the many other Barons, Viscounts, Earls, and Marquesses known as "Lord Soandso." I see nothing in this particular case that justifies revision of our general peerage naming conventions. john k 18:12, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
This doesn't make any sense. Palmerston wasn't even in the House of Lords, since he was an Irish Peer. He is famous as Lord Palmerston because that is what you call someone who is a Viscount. Similarly, Lord Byron is called Lord Byron not because his hereditary peerage was particularly important, but simply because this is what a baron is called by. It is exactly the same situation as with Lord Denning. He is famous, and is mostly known as Lord Denning. he is called Lord Denning because he was a life peer. And he is mostly known as Lord Denning, because that is what judges who are lords are mostly known by. Conrad Black became famous before he was a lord, and is mostly known as Conrad Black, although he's occasionally called Lord Black. Basically, we have two options for peers. If the peer is not known by their peerage title, you use their name, e.g. Conrad Black, Harold Macmillan, Margaret Thatcher, and so forth. If they are best known as "Lord Soandso," they go at their name and peerage title, as George Gordon Byron, 6th Baron Byron, Alfred Denning, Baron Denning, Charlie Falconer, Baron Falconer of Thoroton, Henry John Temple, 3rd Viscount Palmerston. Those are your options. In this case, the proper place is very clear, as you yourself point out. He is known as Lord Denning. Therefore, he goes at Alfred Denning, Baron Denning. If you think this is a bad convention, you're welcome to try and get it changed (although I know that I would argue against the change). But this particular example is very clearly not one where an exception to a general rule should be made. john k 20:49, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Lord Denning is simply what he is referred to because he was a baron. This is absolutely no different from Lord Byron, which is just as recognized, and referring to a far more famous figure. This page is exactly where it should be. john k 06:00, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. violet/riga (t) 19:20, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The "poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown" passage is not a very good illustration of Lord Denning's unusual prose style, as it was in fact delivered in a speech by William Pitt the elder, in the 18th century.
England and Scotland do not have the same law though other parts of the United Kingdom -- Northern Ireland and Wales, inter alia -- do. He was not a British lawyer and judge but an English one. (As various countries of the Commonwealth, once the British Empire, have law other than English law: Sri Lanka and South Africa Dutch; the province of Quebec in Canada French.) Would it not be more accurate to put it that way, English rather than British? Masalai ( talk) 03:59, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
The "Foreign travels" section of the article states that Denning "...spoke at a student meeting at the University of Sydney; while the previous speaker received a slow hand-clap, Denning was given a standing ovation and the student law society was named the Denning Law Society in his honour". I thought this was quite odd, because the University of Sydney's law society is (naturally) called the Sydney University Law Society. I googled "Denning Law Society", and the only references I could find are to an organisation in Tanzania. Ditto "Denning Society" - there's one in the UK associated with Lincoln's Inn, but nothing in Australia. Ivar the Boneful ( talk) 16:52, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
I am more looking for guidance. It seems a convention on here that judges who have gone beyond Lord/Lady Justice do not have their High Court appointment in the infobox. While in principle, it's certainly an achievement of note, I could see that it makes the infobox rather cluttered. Is there any direction on this? Perennial Student ( talk) 23:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
Do we know when he last attended a sitting of the Lords? 84.167.80.80 ( talk) 17:58, 2 January 2023 (UTC)