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About two months ago, I made an edit moving two of the external links, the Toki Pona Dictionary and Bryant Knight (jan Pije)'s lessons to an internet archive, as they were replaced with a resumé site. Both of these resources were located at tokipona.net. Now, they have been restored, but only at the http: address. The https: address, however, still points to 404s on the resumé site.
As there are some extensions which automatically point to the https: domain by default, and some people care about the difference, I am not sure if these should be restored as they were previously. May I please have some advice?
Uncle Opyright ( talk) 05:35, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
I think this article has some serious sourcing issues. I've made a post here Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Toki Pona detailing a few that I do not think qualify as WP:RELIABLE, and probably violate WP:OR, WP:PRIMARY, and probably a number of other policies. He iro 20:44, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
Bali, you admit being the same "Dev Bali" who (in your own words) "compiled earlier attempts to create one Sitelen Emoji" and "made an android keyboard that makes using the script like pinyin for Toki Pona". You have a clear conflict of interest (COI) regarding Sitelen Emoji and Toki Pona.
Editors with a conflict of interest may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information. Plase obey the following rules.ou:
-- Guy Macon ( talk) 15:10, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
Today JanTelakoman added the script "Sitelen Emoji" aka "sitelen pilin" to the article. I reverted their edits and gave the following summary: "This is like saying that the Deseret alphabet and the Shavian alphabet are English writing systems just because they were invented to write English and are used by a few enthusiasts." Then JanTelakoman re-reverted me and commented : "I don't see why this is any less relevant than the part about writing systems developed by individuals. I also added a reference."
Two things: 1) We had that before and decided not to keep Sitelen Emoji. 2) Sitelen Emoji is not on the same level as sitelen pona and sitelen sitelen. The latter two are "official" writing systems presented in the language inventor's handbook Toki Pona. The Language of Good. (2014:104–110, 72–78) while Sitelen Emoji is nothing but one of many inofficial scripts that are rarely used and which include sitelen sike, sitelen linja wan, linja pi kute mute, Henrik Theiling's Toki Pona Script, and others. It seems there is no evidence for their encyclopedic relevance and no objective criterion which script(s) to present in this article. Love — LiliCharlie ( talk) 18:37, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
The title says it all. Some „anonymous user“ removed it again without an explanation. ArgonBebek ( talk) 10:34, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
123 is no longer correct. In The Toki Pona Dictionary there are 137 nimi ku suli and 181 nimi ku. Crockett623 ( talk) 21:14, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
Noting that an IP user recently changed the non-footnoted text to "120 to 137". I
reverted that with summary revert addition of "120 to" before "137". multiple editors opined on talk that it should just say 137, and I stressed "essential words" to avoid the ambiguity of how many "real" words are there, since "essential" is a word used only in establishing the 137. the note clarifies further details. feel free to discuss further on talk
. I was going to notify the user in question, but they appear to be on a very fast-changing dynamic IP, so there's no point. Instead, I'm noting it here, in case anyone agrees with them and would like to make the case. --
Tamzin
cetacean needed (she/they)
05:25, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 12:23, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 15:38, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
aren't they more commonly referred as "nimi ku lili"? i've only seen it used that way Paper2222 ( talk) 17:42, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
i've kama sona'd a bit more knowledge about toki pona, and now i oppose in using "nimi ku lili" Paper2222 ( talk) 07:17, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
Is it appropriate to call "toki pona" a stylization, when Toki Pona orthography does not use capital letters except as part of names? It seems more appropriate to say that it's how the name is written in Latin characters in the language. Ithinkiplaygames ( talk) 17:52, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
References
{{
cite web}}
: Missing or empty |title=
(
help)
I am new to editing and wanted to ask. A very short article for Sonja Lang exists in Spanish and has some basic information about her that the English Toki Pona one doesn't have.
Should an English Sonja Lang article be made or should that information be included in the Toki Pona one? (I have a direct translation of the Spanish one as a personal draft)
Also, please correct me about wikipedia etiquette if there's something I should know. Diegox6 ( talk) 14:16, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
@ Tagishsimon, SusunW, Tamzin, EpicPupper, Nintendofan885, QoopyQoopy, and Vanished user 5747731753:
I have pinged the editors at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women in Red/Archive 112#Draft:Sonja Lang and some of the editors at Sonja Lang.
In March, after looking through some WP:WPWIR lists, I found an page whose subject I found reasonably notable, so I began to draft and draft. Since I could not trust myself to create content directly, I created the page in draftspace until I could submit it for possible inclusion. However, I found out that the article actually existed before, and was redirected back as a BLP1E. To avoid this mistake, I decided to start a discussion at WT:WIR to check for some community input. A rough consensus emerged that it was barely above WP:GNG, and as such barely merited its own article.
In April, I had submitted the draft, and EpicPupper published it into the mainspace in May. It had a brief life before Vanished user 5747731753 redirected it back just under a day ago, citing WP:1E and WP:BIO. Now, I am here. I'm not going to revert Vanished user 5747731753's edit; I want to create another consensus on this page. Thank you. — 3PPYB6 — TALK — CONTRIBS — 01:48, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
The toki pona translation of "The Lord's Prayer" is gone for some reason. Where did it go? Ayslays ( talk) 06:13, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
the question then is whether it's fine to have an example text in a language article that's written by a Wikipedian and not published anywhere else
https://github.com/PaulieGlot/lipu-sewi Is the first and most popular active Bible translation group, me included, and I am wondering if it could get a spot in the wiki, not sure where but it might be nice to see it on the page. E1.ias1 ( talk) 22:41, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
I'm looking at the subsection on the poem, and the
source states Copyright © 2001-2002 Toki Pona. All rights reserved
. Are we sure that the poem is released under terms compatible with Wikipedia's CC license? If not, is there any poem we could use that is? —
Red-tailed hawk
(nest)
18:29, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
today, Sonja released a new Official Toki Pona. as it's still very early, there are few secondary sources about it, here are the ones currently available:
hopefully there will be more in the relases, such as from
Juwan ( talk) 19:39, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
It appears to me that you mistakenly applied the verifiability requirements for sources, which are cited in support of statements made in the body of an article, to the links to resources in a final section External links. The criteria for extenal links are much more lax. The videos of the RobWords channel cover a variety of topics and the video on Toki Pona is clearly well researched, informative, and not in any way fancruft. The videos are produced and presented by Rob Watts, who is not a professional linguist, but formally a newsreader, reporter and presenter in the UK on BBC radio, now working in Berlin as a reporter for DW-TV (and occasionally BBC World Service). -- Lambiam 12:25, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
Lambiam, I've moved the discussion here, so other interested editors may participate if they wish to; they are unlikely to find it on my Talk page. You're right that I mistakenly used verifiability requirements, and I'm thinking maybe that link could be included under WP:ELMAYBE #4, assuming it doesn't run afoul of WP:ELNO #10 (a.k.a., WP:NOSOCIAL). That section names several sites on the no-no list, but YouTube isn't one of them, but it does have its own section at WP:YT which mostly points back to the others. I glanced at some of Rob's other language-related videos and they are entertaining, but is he the best choice? If we are going to use a YT link, isn't there a presenter who is better source about Toki Pona than a news reader who writes about language? In the end, I guess it depends on whether it meets the criteria at the top of the Wikipedia:External links page, namely whether the link contains "further research that is accurate and on-topic" and if consensus is that it is, I have no objection to restoring the link. I can't answer that question, but I know someone who can: pinging User:Tamzin. Mathglot ( talk) 21:08, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
When i view the article preview (on mobile. canno confirm on desktop) there's what seems to be an emoticon / ;) / after "Toki Pona". Is this supposed to happen? Telaso1 ( talk) 05:13, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
(
to the first closing bracket )
. So the "; English:
/ˈtoʊki ˈpoʊnə/)" displays when it shouldn't, but translation/pronounciation templates are also skipped so what's left is "; )". I've gone ahead and marked the whole bracketed section as noexcerpt
so it definitely shouldn't display in previews anymore. Thanks for reporting this, it was a fun puzzle to solve!
twotwos (
talk)
22:47, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
Chapter 'Provenance' has almost only the word origins' page on tokipona.org as its reference. However, it was apparently a wiki page. It seems that Sonja Lang has never released an etymological list of Toki Pona. I had tried to look for more reliable sources of Toki Pona's word origins, but failed. I wonder what we should do to the chapter. CuSO4, who non-natively speaks English 22:44, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
I understand that the file mentioned is the most reliable source for a speaker count, but the toki pona Subreddit (is 'subreddit' a proper noun?) alone has 20 thousand members, and the Discord server has 14 thousand more. I'm certain not all of those people are speakers, but these are indicators that the number is far higher than "500–5000".
ThaNook (
talk)
00:16, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
Since this is a constructed language, it would be nice to have a criticism section. Consider, e.g., https://www.reddit.com/r/tokipona/comments/sp52ap/some_critique_from_an_outsider_trying_to_learn/, https://www.reddit.com/r/tokipona/comments/k8n2f4/sorry_but_toki_ponas_ideology_is_scarily_similar/ , but there may be better sources. Kdammers ( talk) 18:30, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
Given that there are fewer than 200 words in all, why not use exact numbers here? —Tamfang ( talk) 23:56, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Toki Pona article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4 |
Toki Pona has been listed as one of the Language and literature good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
About two months ago, I made an edit moving two of the external links, the Toki Pona Dictionary and Bryant Knight (jan Pije)'s lessons to an internet archive, as they were replaced with a resumé site. Both of these resources were located at tokipona.net. Now, they have been restored, but only at the http: address. The https: address, however, still points to 404s on the resumé site.
As there are some extensions which automatically point to the https: domain by default, and some people care about the difference, I am not sure if these should be restored as they were previously. May I please have some advice?
Uncle Opyright ( talk) 05:35, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
I think this article has some serious sourcing issues. I've made a post here Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Toki Pona detailing a few that I do not think qualify as WP:RELIABLE, and probably violate WP:OR, WP:PRIMARY, and probably a number of other policies. He iro 20:44, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
Bali, you admit being the same "Dev Bali" who (in your own words) "compiled earlier attempts to create one Sitelen Emoji" and "made an android keyboard that makes using the script like pinyin for Toki Pona". You have a clear conflict of interest (COI) regarding Sitelen Emoji and Toki Pona.
Editors with a conflict of interest may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information. Plase obey the following rules.ou:
-- Guy Macon ( talk) 15:10, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
Today JanTelakoman added the script "Sitelen Emoji" aka "sitelen pilin" to the article. I reverted their edits and gave the following summary: "This is like saying that the Deseret alphabet and the Shavian alphabet are English writing systems just because they were invented to write English and are used by a few enthusiasts." Then JanTelakoman re-reverted me and commented : "I don't see why this is any less relevant than the part about writing systems developed by individuals. I also added a reference."
Two things: 1) We had that before and decided not to keep Sitelen Emoji. 2) Sitelen Emoji is not on the same level as sitelen pona and sitelen sitelen. The latter two are "official" writing systems presented in the language inventor's handbook Toki Pona. The Language of Good. (2014:104–110, 72–78) while Sitelen Emoji is nothing but one of many inofficial scripts that are rarely used and which include sitelen sike, sitelen linja wan, linja pi kute mute, Henrik Theiling's Toki Pona Script, and others. It seems there is no evidence for their encyclopedic relevance and no objective criterion which script(s) to present in this article. Love — LiliCharlie ( talk) 18:37, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
The title says it all. Some „anonymous user“ removed it again without an explanation. ArgonBebek ( talk) 10:34, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
123 is no longer correct. In The Toki Pona Dictionary there are 137 nimi ku suli and 181 nimi ku. Crockett623 ( talk) 21:14, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
Noting that an IP user recently changed the non-footnoted text to "120 to 137". I
reverted that with summary revert addition of "120 to" before "137". multiple editors opined on talk that it should just say 137, and I stressed "essential words" to avoid the ambiguity of how many "real" words are there, since "essential" is a word used only in establishing the 137. the note clarifies further details. feel free to discuss further on talk
. I was going to notify the user in question, but they appear to be on a very fast-changing dynamic IP, so there's no point. Instead, I'm noting it here, in case anyone agrees with them and would like to make the case. --
Tamzin
cetacean needed (she/they)
05:25, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 12:23, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 15:38, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
aren't they more commonly referred as "nimi ku lili"? i've only seen it used that way Paper2222 ( talk) 17:42, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
i've kama sona'd a bit more knowledge about toki pona, and now i oppose in using "nimi ku lili" Paper2222 ( talk) 07:17, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
Is it appropriate to call "toki pona" a stylization, when Toki Pona orthography does not use capital letters except as part of names? It seems more appropriate to say that it's how the name is written in Latin characters in the language. Ithinkiplaygames ( talk) 17:52, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
References
{{
cite web}}
: Missing or empty |title=
(
help)
I am new to editing and wanted to ask. A very short article for Sonja Lang exists in Spanish and has some basic information about her that the English Toki Pona one doesn't have.
Should an English Sonja Lang article be made or should that information be included in the Toki Pona one? (I have a direct translation of the Spanish one as a personal draft)
Also, please correct me about wikipedia etiquette if there's something I should know. Diegox6 ( talk) 14:16, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
@ Tagishsimon, SusunW, Tamzin, EpicPupper, Nintendofan885, QoopyQoopy, and Vanished user 5747731753:
I have pinged the editors at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women in Red/Archive 112#Draft:Sonja Lang and some of the editors at Sonja Lang.
In March, after looking through some WP:WPWIR lists, I found an page whose subject I found reasonably notable, so I began to draft and draft. Since I could not trust myself to create content directly, I created the page in draftspace until I could submit it for possible inclusion. However, I found out that the article actually existed before, and was redirected back as a BLP1E. To avoid this mistake, I decided to start a discussion at WT:WIR to check for some community input. A rough consensus emerged that it was barely above WP:GNG, and as such barely merited its own article.
In April, I had submitted the draft, and EpicPupper published it into the mainspace in May. It had a brief life before Vanished user 5747731753 redirected it back just under a day ago, citing WP:1E and WP:BIO. Now, I am here. I'm not going to revert Vanished user 5747731753's edit; I want to create another consensus on this page. Thank you. — 3PPYB6 — TALK — CONTRIBS — 01:48, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
The toki pona translation of "The Lord's Prayer" is gone for some reason. Where did it go? Ayslays ( talk) 06:13, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
the question then is whether it's fine to have an example text in a language article that's written by a Wikipedian and not published anywhere else
https://github.com/PaulieGlot/lipu-sewi Is the first and most popular active Bible translation group, me included, and I am wondering if it could get a spot in the wiki, not sure where but it might be nice to see it on the page. E1.ias1 ( talk) 22:41, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
I'm looking at the subsection on the poem, and the
source states Copyright © 2001-2002 Toki Pona. All rights reserved
. Are we sure that the poem is released under terms compatible with Wikipedia's CC license? If not, is there any poem we could use that is? —
Red-tailed hawk
(nest)
18:29, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
today, Sonja released a new Official Toki Pona. as it's still very early, there are few secondary sources about it, here are the ones currently available:
hopefully there will be more in the relases, such as from
Juwan ( talk) 19:39, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
It appears to me that you mistakenly applied the verifiability requirements for sources, which are cited in support of statements made in the body of an article, to the links to resources in a final section External links. The criteria for extenal links are much more lax. The videos of the RobWords channel cover a variety of topics and the video on Toki Pona is clearly well researched, informative, and not in any way fancruft. The videos are produced and presented by Rob Watts, who is not a professional linguist, but formally a newsreader, reporter and presenter in the UK on BBC radio, now working in Berlin as a reporter for DW-TV (and occasionally BBC World Service). -- Lambiam 12:25, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
Lambiam, I've moved the discussion here, so other interested editors may participate if they wish to; they are unlikely to find it on my Talk page. You're right that I mistakenly used verifiability requirements, and I'm thinking maybe that link could be included under WP:ELMAYBE #4, assuming it doesn't run afoul of WP:ELNO #10 (a.k.a., WP:NOSOCIAL). That section names several sites on the no-no list, but YouTube isn't one of them, but it does have its own section at WP:YT which mostly points back to the others. I glanced at some of Rob's other language-related videos and they are entertaining, but is he the best choice? If we are going to use a YT link, isn't there a presenter who is better source about Toki Pona than a news reader who writes about language? In the end, I guess it depends on whether it meets the criteria at the top of the Wikipedia:External links page, namely whether the link contains "further research that is accurate and on-topic" and if consensus is that it is, I have no objection to restoring the link. I can't answer that question, but I know someone who can: pinging User:Tamzin. Mathglot ( talk) 21:08, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
When i view the article preview (on mobile. canno confirm on desktop) there's what seems to be an emoticon / ;) / after "Toki Pona". Is this supposed to happen? Telaso1 ( talk) 05:13, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
(
to the first closing bracket )
. So the "; English:
/ˈtoʊki ˈpoʊnə/)" displays when it shouldn't, but translation/pronounciation templates are also skipped so what's left is "; )". I've gone ahead and marked the whole bracketed section as noexcerpt
so it definitely shouldn't display in previews anymore. Thanks for reporting this, it was a fun puzzle to solve!
twotwos (
talk)
22:47, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
Chapter 'Provenance' has almost only the word origins' page on tokipona.org as its reference. However, it was apparently a wiki page. It seems that Sonja Lang has never released an etymological list of Toki Pona. I had tried to look for more reliable sources of Toki Pona's word origins, but failed. I wonder what we should do to the chapter. CuSO4, who non-natively speaks English 22:44, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
I understand that the file mentioned is the most reliable source for a speaker count, but the toki pona Subreddit (is 'subreddit' a proper noun?) alone has 20 thousand members, and the Discord server has 14 thousand more. I'm certain not all of those people are speakers, but these are indicators that the number is far higher than "500–5000".
ThaNook (
talk)
00:16, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
Since this is a constructed language, it would be nice to have a criticism section. Consider, e.g., https://www.reddit.com/r/tokipona/comments/sp52ap/some_critique_from_an_outsider_trying_to_learn/, https://www.reddit.com/r/tokipona/comments/k8n2f4/sorry_but_toki_ponas_ideology_is_scarily_similar/ , but there may be better sources. Kdammers ( talk) 18:30, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
Given that there are fewer than 200 words in all, why not use exact numbers here? —Tamfang ( talk) 23:56, 16 July 2024 (UTC)