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This is only mentioned in the "Popular Culture" section. What is it? It sounds like the best of the best, but there is no definition of it in the article. 95.149.54.104 ( talk) 10:31, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
Juro, OK if you insist then include the Slovak terms for types of wine in this article Scott Moore 13:38, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)
This Juro guy is sick. Slovakian Tokaji - muhahahahaha forditas (Slovakian: forditas) :))))))
Why are you blaming ME???????? I am just collecting informations and opinions here, that's all. And ... maybe you should read newspapers and books occasionally... Juro 00:17, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
Szamorodni is Polish??? Xixixixi. Just note that there is no such word in the Polish language. On the other hand, in Slovak "samorodny" means something like "grown on its own" or "self-bearing" or "self-growing". If you want to adopt samorodne into Hungarian, you end up with szamorodni. But this interpretation would not fit Hungarian national myth. And note that Tokaj means a place where two rivers conflux. In old slavic it was Stokaj. Note that there is a confluence of two rivers at Tokaj village. And a hill named Tokaj in the Slovak part of the Tokaj region. Again where two rivers conflux. Anyway, Hungarian nationalism hinges on things like palinka (palenka==distilate in Slovak, from palit == to distil), Tokaji (partly Slovak), Petofi (serbo-croat origin) etc etc...Looks like a nation with pretty low confidence...BTW note how many loan words from the Slavic languages and German the Hungarian language has. great many (Takacs = Tkac = weaver, Meszaros = Mesiar = butcher, Kovacs= Kovac=smith are some of the most common surnames in Hungary. Nr. 3 is Toth = Slovak, Nr 5 or 6 is Horvath = Croat.....) Best, AladarP
sorry for that, it was an unintended implication. The point was that if one has low confidence in him/her-self, only then he/she comes up with national myths to justify things. And what's most funny is that many hungarian sources of national pride are actually not genuine. (similar for Czech: slivovica is a plum destilate but in Czech plum is "svestka", not sliva, like in SLovak. Or take SLovakia: bryndza is a typical Slovak sheep-cheese, but the word is of Rumanian origin with the meaning as trivial as - cheese.) The loanword issue was just a marginal note. What I really hate is the penetration of national myths into national histories.AladarP
NOTE: samorodny exists in Polish: meaning: natural. szamorodni basically is a hungarized version of samorodny of Slovak or Polish origin. But what did Poles do in the Tokaji region??? There were none (excpet for visitors, of course)! It was rather the Slovak indigenous population that named this kind of wine samorodny. AladarP
This article claims that
Gustav III, King of Sweden, never had any other wine to drink. Now, since it was a well-known luxury product of its times, I don't have any problems in believing that he did drink the stuff, and probably liked it. But saying that he never drank any other wine is a pretty strong statement, and one that needs to be backed up with an inline reference, with page number if it refers to a book, which has to be credible. (Remember that many wine books and articles are more marketing-oriented than well-researched, and that some of their statements may need to be read with skepticism when forming the basis of an encyclopedic article.) What I do know is that Gustav III was a great francophile (French was probably the only language spoken at court), and that the wine most commonly imported to Sweden at the time was Rhenish, along with some French and various fortified wines. (I.e., a situation not entirely unlike the UK, but with probably more focus on Rhenish wine.) The contemporary poet
Carl Michael Bellman, who had close connections with the court and whose lyrics frequently are about drinking, drank French wine the first time he was dead drunk, and has frequent references to Rhenish wine in his lyrics, but to the best of my knowledge, never to Tokaji. With that background, I would be very surprised if French and Rhenish wine weren't served at Gustav III's court, but a quick online search unearthed no Swedish web sources about his drinking habits.
Come to think of it, some of the other claims of Tokaji drinkers should also be backed up with inline references, because this whole section is bordering on being non-encyclopedic.
Tomas e (
talk)
17:46, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
The article should begin with a straightforward, declarative sentence that, as briefly as possible, provides the reader who knows nothing at all about the article's subject with the answer to two questions:
And NOT with a big bottle. Warrington ( talk) 20:16, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
This is 'máslás', a derivated form of 'másolás', his "pair" is the 'fordítás'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.224.38.121 ( talk) 13:38, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
This wine is famous, at least in English, as Tokay, not Tokaji. Are all, or most, of these "Tokaji drinkers" in fact Tokay drinkers?
That is almost certainly true of any of them who speak English.
Varlaam (
talk)
22:07, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
i believe that at hitlers wedding in the bunker, after the wedding in the reception, hitler and his guests at the wedding in the bunker drank tokai. can anyone else find this or know of this? thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mackdiesel5 ( talk • contribs) 21:55, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
http://www.tokaj.hu/dl/media/group_47ce7dc01a102/group_47ce7de4b8b15/group_47cff55dbab69/item_815.pdf <- according to that John Toland, a Hitler biographer, claimed that the wine was present at Hitler's wedding (it's on page 8) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.120.184.122 ( talk) 21:56, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
Where it also says: "not supported by other Hitler sources" 99.37.120.34 ( talk) 15:22, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
Famous consumers of Tokaji: "In 1703, Francis Rákóczi II, Prince of Transylvania, gave King Louis XIV of France some Tokaji wine from his Tokaj estate as a gift. The Tokaji wine was served at the French Royal court at Versailles, where it became known as Tokay. Delighted with the precious beverage, Louis XIV of France offered a glass of Tokaji to Madame de Pompadour, referring to it as "Vinum Regum, Rex Vinorum" ("Wine of Kings, King of Wines"). This famous line is used to this day in the marketing of Tokaji wines."
Madame de Pompadour was not yet born in 1703. Although the quote is truly associated to King Luis XIV, there is no way he could offer it to Madame Pompadour. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.75.158.251 ( talk) 15:10, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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This article has been
mentioned by a media organization:
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This is only mentioned in the "Popular Culture" section. What is it? It sounds like the best of the best, but there is no definition of it in the article. 95.149.54.104 ( talk) 10:31, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
Juro, OK if you insist then include the Slovak terms for types of wine in this article Scott Moore 13:38, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)
This Juro guy is sick. Slovakian Tokaji - muhahahahaha forditas (Slovakian: forditas) :))))))
Why are you blaming ME???????? I am just collecting informations and opinions here, that's all. And ... maybe you should read newspapers and books occasionally... Juro 00:17, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
Szamorodni is Polish??? Xixixixi. Just note that there is no such word in the Polish language. On the other hand, in Slovak "samorodny" means something like "grown on its own" or "self-bearing" or "self-growing". If you want to adopt samorodne into Hungarian, you end up with szamorodni. But this interpretation would not fit Hungarian national myth. And note that Tokaj means a place where two rivers conflux. In old slavic it was Stokaj. Note that there is a confluence of two rivers at Tokaj village. And a hill named Tokaj in the Slovak part of the Tokaj region. Again where two rivers conflux. Anyway, Hungarian nationalism hinges on things like palinka (palenka==distilate in Slovak, from palit == to distil), Tokaji (partly Slovak), Petofi (serbo-croat origin) etc etc...Looks like a nation with pretty low confidence...BTW note how many loan words from the Slavic languages and German the Hungarian language has. great many (Takacs = Tkac = weaver, Meszaros = Mesiar = butcher, Kovacs= Kovac=smith are some of the most common surnames in Hungary. Nr. 3 is Toth = Slovak, Nr 5 or 6 is Horvath = Croat.....) Best, AladarP
sorry for that, it was an unintended implication. The point was that if one has low confidence in him/her-self, only then he/she comes up with national myths to justify things. And what's most funny is that many hungarian sources of national pride are actually not genuine. (similar for Czech: slivovica is a plum destilate but in Czech plum is "svestka", not sliva, like in SLovak. Or take SLovakia: bryndza is a typical Slovak sheep-cheese, but the word is of Rumanian origin with the meaning as trivial as - cheese.) The loanword issue was just a marginal note. What I really hate is the penetration of national myths into national histories.AladarP
NOTE: samorodny exists in Polish: meaning: natural. szamorodni basically is a hungarized version of samorodny of Slovak or Polish origin. But what did Poles do in the Tokaji region??? There were none (excpet for visitors, of course)! It was rather the Slovak indigenous population that named this kind of wine samorodny. AladarP
This article claims that
Gustav III, King of Sweden, never had any other wine to drink. Now, since it was a well-known luxury product of its times, I don't have any problems in believing that he did drink the stuff, and probably liked it. But saying that he never drank any other wine is a pretty strong statement, and one that needs to be backed up with an inline reference, with page number if it refers to a book, which has to be credible. (Remember that many wine books and articles are more marketing-oriented than well-researched, and that some of their statements may need to be read with skepticism when forming the basis of an encyclopedic article.) What I do know is that Gustav III was a great francophile (French was probably the only language spoken at court), and that the wine most commonly imported to Sweden at the time was Rhenish, along with some French and various fortified wines. (I.e., a situation not entirely unlike the UK, but with probably more focus on Rhenish wine.) The contemporary poet
Carl Michael Bellman, who had close connections with the court and whose lyrics frequently are about drinking, drank French wine the first time he was dead drunk, and has frequent references to Rhenish wine in his lyrics, but to the best of my knowledge, never to Tokaji. With that background, I would be very surprised if French and Rhenish wine weren't served at Gustav III's court, but a quick online search unearthed no Swedish web sources about his drinking habits.
Come to think of it, some of the other claims of Tokaji drinkers should also be backed up with inline references, because this whole section is bordering on being non-encyclopedic.
Tomas e (
talk)
17:46, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
The article should begin with a straightforward, declarative sentence that, as briefly as possible, provides the reader who knows nothing at all about the article's subject with the answer to two questions:
And NOT with a big bottle. Warrington ( talk) 20:16, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
This is 'máslás', a derivated form of 'másolás', his "pair" is the 'fordítás'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.224.38.121 ( talk) 13:38, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
This wine is famous, at least in English, as Tokay, not Tokaji. Are all, or most, of these "Tokaji drinkers" in fact Tokay drinkers?
That is almost certainly true of any of them who speak English.
Varlaam (
talk)
22:07, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
i believe that at hitlers wedding in the bunker, after the wedding in the reception, hitler and his guests at the wedding in the bunker drank tokai. can anyone else find this or know of this? thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mackdiesel5 ( talk • contribs) 21:55, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
http://www.tokaj.hu/dl/media/group_47ce7dc01a102/group_47ce7de4b8b15/group_47cff55dbab69/item_815.pdf <- according to that John Toland, a Hitler biographer, claimed that the wine was present at Hitler's wedding (it's on page 8) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.120.184.122 ( talk) 21:56, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
Where it also says: "not supported by other Hitler sources" 99.37.120.34 ( talk) 15:22, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
Famous consumers of Tokaji: "In 1703, Francis Rákóczi II, Prince of Transylvania, gave King Louis XIV of France some Tokaji wine from his Tokaj estate as a gift. The Tokaji wine was served at the French Royal court at Versailles, where it became known as Tokay. Delighted with the precious beverage, Louis XIV of France offered a glass of Tokaji to Madame de Pompadour, referring to it as "Vinum Regum, Rex Vinorum" ("Wine of Kings, King of Wines"). This famous line is used to this day in the marketing of Tokaji wines."
Madame de Pompadour was not yet born in 1703. Although the quote is truly associated to King Luis XIV, there is no way he could offer it to Madame Pompadour. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.75.158.251 ( talk) 15:10, 10 May 2017 (UTC)