![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Shadowoflinux 20:47, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Aren't "ng" and "oi" also digraphs? (Actually, regarding "ng", that's not a question - it is a digraph. I'm not sure about "oi" (eg. boil, boilim) so I don't want to change it until someone can confirm.)— — Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.31.37.40 ( talk • contribs) 14:08, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
I removed the statements that "pis" can mean "piss" or "beach" (in addition to "fish, "peace", etc.) since this is NOT true. "Piss" is "pispis", "beach" is "nambis". —Preceding unsigned comment added by MarcusCole12 ( talk • contribs) 03:04, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
MarcusCole12 ( talk)
For those with an interest in Tok Pisin who are not watching WikiProject Melanesia, there's a move afoot to revitalise the Tok Pisin Wiktionary and the Tok Pisin Wikipedia. Please go to the discussion page, and specific subpages for Wiktionary and Wikipedia, if you are interested. Wantok ( toktok) 10:36, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
I have been doing some work over there but it is going slow at the moment. I am currently expanding the New York City (Niu Yok Siti) and the Washington D.C. page (Wosinten D.K.). If anyone else is interested, please help expand the Tok Pisin Wikipedia. Αδελφος ( talk) 15:20, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
I'd like to remove the vocabulary list for Tok Pisin. It doesn't belong here. I'll leave the couple of sentences there, though, and add one or two examples for the languages of borrowing, though. Vocabulary should go into Wiktionary. If no one complains, I'll do it tomorrow or someday. — N-true ( talk) 22:29, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
well, I like the vocabulary list, it's interesting. Might as well keep it there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.198.113.130 ( talk) 17:35, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
I think the Tok Pisin wiktionary should be mostly Tok Pisin because it is for people who speak Tok Pisin. I think Papua New Guineans would be glad to see a website in their language. Αδελφος ( talk) 15:24, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
Can we have some expansion or citation for the comment; "This may or may not be written separate from the verb, occasionally written as a prefix. It was once thought to be an abbreviation for "he" or "is", but now is thought to be a grammatical construction instead."?
Although, it seems quite clear that "i" does have a grammatical function when used with impersonal constructions and in specifying agents in complex sentences, is it not also the case that the word itself is derived from "he"?
The above comment seems to suggest that the facts are mutually exclusive. Bearinasidecar ( talk) 17:20, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
The English version of the site states that there are 1 million native speakers, whereas the Tok Pisin site says 120 000. Does anyone have any firmer figures? I think some consistency would be helpful. Bearinasidecar ( talk) 17:11, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
According to the video series "The Story of Human Language" created by John McWhorter for The Teaching Company, "pisin" is derived from "business." Does anyone have a citation to the contrary? If not, the page should be amended. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.164.94.128 ( talk) 23:59, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
Just edited the link to "savvy" out, i dont think tok pisin has anything to do with a californian wrestler MikeTango 22:00, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
A Tok-Pisin Wikipedia just opened. Please contribute!
-- Milaiklainim 5 April 2004
why does Broken english ridirect here?
Why is this article not at
Tok Pisin language, instead of that location redirecting here? --
Whimemsz 20:22, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)
Nb. "bikpela" does not primarily mean God. It primarily means "big." To put "God" as the primary meaning is to miss an important TP idiom (God is big, get it?). Besides which, it is more common to say "Papa God" where one would invoke The Big Judeo-Christian Diety in the Sky, anyways. 68.7.98.29 03:05, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
What is the basis for the statement that German creole (whatever that is) was used in German New Guinea? German New Guinea only lasted from 1884 to 1914 -- hardly long enough for creolisation. The influence of German on New Guinea Pidgin is decidedly minor compared to that of English -- the frequently proposed etymology of haus as coming from the German haus is just plain daft: obviously haus is simply house in the Pidgin orthography. Fr. Frank Mihalic's Jacaranda Dictionary and Grammar of Melanesian Pidgin (Milton, Qld: Jacaranda, 1971) remains the single most authoritative source and he simply states it to be "E." Masalai 18:03, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
Some of the info here is inaccurate, it seems. According to Wurm and Mulhausler's "Handbook of Tok Pisin", Tok Pisin has /N/ phonemically. Amungst other things. Bryan 82.44.212.6 21:09, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
A reading of the article on Unserdeutsch indicates that the creole developed over more than the German era (the German influence in the Catholic orphanage referred to continued after the German era). But thirty years of first contact is plenty of time to develop a pidgin - which is all the German era helped to do; the creolization of Tok Pisin is a more recent development. Don't underestimate the German influence. The use of haus pre-dates major english influence, and it is highly likely that it did at least in part have German impetus in its use. The word for hospital haus sik translates a German structure which is not used in English - "krankenhaus". Another example is manki (see my comments below) - which is NOT derived from English - its use was common in the former German Territories, and NO WHERE ELSE in the world where the English had influence, and where piccaninny or its equivalent prevailed. The influence has faded, but is not entirely gone. Regards, Colin Richardson
maski - it doesn't matter, don't worry about it
Does it come from German "macht nichts" (or like "machnix" in some dialects) which has the same meaning?
Vadimka 00:12, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
This sxn starts out about tense/ aspect marking, but discusses a number of generic grammatical things (prepositions, plurals,...) Either change sxn title, or move the non-tense related stuff elsewhere. Mcswell ( talk) 17:25, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
Mi save gut long Tok Pisin tasol mi gat wanpela kwesten. In English we don't refer to le francais but French. So is it proper to refer to it as Tok Pisin rather than Pidgin English? Masalai ( talk) 19:51, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
Is it true that the future marker "bai" comes from English "by and by"? I thought it came from Portuguese "vai" ("goes"). Portuguese has influenced a lot of pidgins and creoles around the world, even pidgins/creoles which are not Portuguese-based. -- Antonielly ( talk) 10:22, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes, Tok Pisin "bai" is an abbreviated alternative of the Tok Pisin word "baimbai" which derives from the old fashioned English expression "by and by." ~~CMC~~
In Tok Pisin, bai means "will". For example: "Em bai wokim" means "he will work". Αδελφος ( talk) 15:15, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
Not impossible that a devout Catholic might refer to the Pope that way I suppose - but hardly standard Pidgin usage! Anyway I have cut it from the "vocabulary" list. In any case "Jesus man" seems unlikely - more idiomatic would be "man bilong Jesus". I fear this one is in the category as such "monsters" (obviously composed by Europeans) as "Mikismasta bilong Jesus" for helicopter, or "bigpela bokis sapos yu paitim long maus i kraiaut" for "piano". These (and others) were both quoted to me as "typical" of pidgin (by people who I suspect of knowing much better) before I went to New Guinea - in practice of course unfamiliar ideas are much more likely to result in the coining of a new loan word than a long-winded circumlocution. --- Soundofmusicals ( talk) 23:43, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
I completely agree. The phrase "magimix bilong Yesus" (Magimix belonging to Jesus) Is entirely apocryphal. Why would someone use a rare (dare I say entirely unfamiliar given the supposed time this phrase supposedly originated) piece of complicated machinery to badly describe another piece of machinery that many folks in PNG where far more likely to have seen. It sounds like a joke that someone took seriously. Since when is a casual mention in a royal fluff piece by The Gaurdian a respectable resource? Mitch 19:23, 21 May 2013 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.255.8.253 ( talk • contribs) 19:23, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
All Papua New Guinean Anglophones refer to New Guinea Pidgin as such when speaking English. My son insists (I assure you I am quoting), "All Australians are illiterate, racist assholes." They are though, notoriously unilingual and I have to conclude that it was some Australian(s) who insisted on referring to it as Tok Pisin when not speaking it. Surely this can and should be fixed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.228.80.1 ( talk) 21:45, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
Should Melanesian Pidgin English really redirect here? I’ve seen that term used to refer not to Tok Pisin specifically, but to a larger group which includes Bislama and Pijin. It’s also surmised that Tok Pisin is “perhaps more commonly” called New Guinea Pidgin in English. I don’t speak Tok Pisin and am not from that area of the world, but have only ever heard it called Tok Pisin. — Wiki Wikardo 20:02, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Would be nice to get a mention of this term somewhere in the article. — Wiki Wikardo 00:39, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
I'm a dabbler here, via an interest in some PNG subjects. My uninformed guess is that tok ples refers to the local language of any of the many PNG places that have their own language (on the basis that ples means "place"). If I'm right, IMHO it would be good to somehow include a few words about tok ples="talk place" up in the introduction where tok ples is mentioned. Linking to vernacular doesn't seem to be quite enough. Lou Sander ( talk) 16:13, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
There's a tag on the main article, suggesting that Tok Pisin alphabet be merged into Tok Pisin, but nobody seems to have started a discussion. I have near-zero knowledge of either subject, but that doesn't mean I can't help.
Merge. The alphabet article is tiny, unlikely to grow, would fit in with the many other details in the Tok Pisin article. Lou Sander ( talk) 15:09, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
Merge. I agree 100% that it belongs in this article rather than as a separate one. A few things that could also be added:
The Haz talk 03:15, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
'bagarap(im) – broken, to break down (from "bugger up") – also used in Papua New Guinea English in contexts that would be considered vulgar in other countries.'
Does that mean that the contexts would be considered vulgar in other countries but are not in PNG? Or does it mean that "bagarap" is used in PNG English in contexts where "bugger up" would be considered too vulgar in other countries? I think it's the second, but that's not what the sentence says. — JerryFriedman (Talk) 16:28, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
I don't know how trustworthy the sources you have regarding the origin of the verb tenses are, so I thought I'd point this out. I'm a native (European) Portuguese speaker, and Tok Pisin was influenced by Portuguese among all those others. The word "bai" to make the future tense in verbs, seems very similar to Portuguese "vai" (literally "goes"), which we use in the exact same way, and is actually pronounced "bai" in most of northern Portugal. Consider that origin instead of English "by and by". On a lesser note, "stap" to indicate the gerund. Instead of English "stop", it may come from Portuguese "estar". "Eating" in Portuguese would be "estar a comer" or "estar comendo". -- Midasminus ( talk) 15:01, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
The choice of "The Lord's Prayer in Tok Pisin" violate the "Neutral point of view" rule. They are many texts in tok pisin why choose a prayer? And a prayer from a foreign belief! Please change the example with a neutral text.
Sylvain Jousse, France. Sylvain24 ( talk) 17:20, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 11/08/2014.
These answers made me very sad. Espreon: ″it exists in so many other languages″ So what? We could use ′Le petit prince′. It has been translated many times too. ;-)
someone should add something. Good idea.
@Soundofmusicals: You are right. I'm not a believer of any kind, in any way. You are right too when you say it is not easy to find good sources but don't tell me that there are no poets, no singers and no writers in PNG... ″PNGans certainly don't look on their Christianity as a "foreign" belief.″ Probably right for young people but when you ask old people about their customs they always start by 'before the missionnaries we used to...' or 'after the missionnaries we had to...'.
My conclussion is: If something is usual it doesn't mean we HAVE to do the same thing. Sylvain24. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sylvain24 ( talk • contribs) 08:47, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
I changed began to develop to developed, because began suggests that it was not yet in a usable state when they stopped! Soundofmusicals reverted, saying, "It has continued to develop since, so yes, they DID just ‘begin’." We're reading different nuances into the verb develop. Others, please comment. — Tamfang ( talk) 04:33, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
Another attempt has been made on the little list of Tok Pisin words in this article. While we wouldn't put such a list in an article about French, Indonesian or Mongolian - the very fact that the lexis of Tok Pisin is (mostly) "derived from English" makes such a list of particular interest in this context. We really need a discussion on this page before we lose it, anyway. - Soundofmusicals ( talk) 09:23, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
Yupanqui ( talk) 11:55, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
Anglophone Papua New Guineans invariably refer to the language in English as New Guinea Pidgin or just plain Pidgin. Word the Australians insist on referring to it in English as Tok Pisin causes hilarity: "Obviously they don't speak any languages other than English and perhaps a bit of Pidgin! Do they refer to French as le français, German as Deutsch, Italian as italiano? Don't they know how ignorant that reveals them to be?" Masalai ( talk) 08:51, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
The section on phonology mentions the phoneme /ŋ/ but does not mention how the written sequence "ng" is pronounced. Given the rule about nasal plus plosive sequences at the ends of words losing the plosive (eg. 'hand' > 'han'), I am therefore certain that binatang ("insect") is pronounced /binataŋ/ (with no idea where the stress goes) and NOT */binataŋg/. But what about between vowels? Does intervocalic "ng" always represent /ŋ/ or /ŋg/ or sometimes one, sometimes the other? For example, how are the words krungutim ("to crush something") and pinga ("finger") pronounced? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.44.76.148 ( talk) 23:42, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
The Phonology section says that Tok Pisin has 17 "core" consonants. However, the table of consonants only has 16 entries. Looking back at the Alphabet section, I can see that the orthography includes both ⟨f⟩ and ⟨j⟩, the likely phonemic counterparts of which (/f/ and /dʒ/) are not in the table. (It does include /ŋ/, for the digraph ⟨ng⟩.) Are these really in the Tok Pisin alphabet? If so, what are they used for?
Further observations: A skim through the examples shows up just one ⟨f⟩, in telefon, and no ⟨j⟩. Other borrowings have replaced English ⟨f⟩ entirely. I looked through the external links for resources that seemed likely to have their own phonological or orthographic information, but I only found a "Sounds" section in one of them (" Tok Pisin background, vocabulary, sounds, and grammar, by Jeff Siegel"), and it doesn't list them.
In fact, I think this article needs some explanation of how the orthography works, rather than just saying "this is its alphabet". Aside from the above issue, the Phonology section also says that Tok Pisin has five "core" vowels, but the Alphabet section list three vowel digraphs without explaining what they're for. Anyone have the necessary knowledge and want to give it a go? -- Perey ( talk) 17:28, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Tok Pisin. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 14:41, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
In the first paragraph: /tɒk ˈpɪsɪn/. In the infobox: [ˌtok piˈsin]. Concise Oxford Companion says Pronounced ‘tock pizzin’. Which is it? -- 188.101.94.74 ( talk) 02:53, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Shadowoflinux 20:47, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Aren't "ng" and "oi" also digraphs? (Actually, regarding "ng", that's not a question - it is a digraph. I'm not sure about "oi" (eg. boil, boilim) so I don't want to change it until someone can confirm.)— — Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.31.37.40 ( talk • contribs) 14:08, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
I removed the statements that "pis" can mean "piss" or "beach" (in addition to "fish, "peace", etc.) since this is NOT true. "Piss" is "pispis", "beach" is "nambis". —Preceding unsigned comment added by MarcusCole12 ( talk • contribs) 03:04, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
MarcusCole12 ( talk)
For those with an interest in Tok Pisin who are not watching WikiProject Melanesia, there's a move afoot to revitalise the Tok Pisin Wiktionary and the Tok Pisin Wikipedia. Please go to the discussion page, and specific subpages for Wiktionary and Wikipedia, if you are interested. Wantok ( toktok) 10:36, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
I have been doing some work over there but it is going slow at the moment. I am currently expanding the New York City (Niu Yok Siti) and the Washington D.C. page (Wosinten D.K.). If anyone else is interested, please help expand the Tok Pisin Wikipedia. Αδελφος ( talk) 15:20, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
I'd like to remove the vocabulary list for Tok Pisin. It doesn't belong here. I'll leave the couple of sentences there, though, and add one or two examples for the languages of borrowing, though. Vocabulary should go into Wiktionary. If no one complains, I'll do it tomorrow or someday. — N-true ( talk) 22:29, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
well, I like the vocabulary list, it's interesting. Might as well keep it there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.198.113.130 ( talk) 17:35, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
I think the Tok Pisin wiktionary should be mostly Tok Pisin because it is for people who speak Tok Pisin. I think Papua New Guineans would be glad to see a website in their language. Αδελφος ( talk) 15:24, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
Can we have some expansion or citation for the comment; "This may or may not be written separate from the verb, occasionally written as a prefix. It was once thought to be an abbreviation for "he" or "is", but now is thought to be a grammatical construction instead."?
Although, it seems quite clear that "i" does have a grammatical function when used with impersonal constructions and in specifying agents in complex sentences, is it not also the case that the word itself is derived from "he"?
The above comment seems to suggest that the facts are mutually exclusive. Bearinasidecar ( talk) 17:20, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
The English version of the site states that there are 1 million native speakers, whereas the Tok Pisin site says 120 000. Does anyone have any firmer figures? I think some consistency would be helpful. Bearinasidecar ( talk) 17:11, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
According to the video series "The Story of Human Language" created by John McWhorter for The Teaching Company, "pisin" is derived from "business." Does anyone have a citation to the contrary? If not, the page should be amended. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.164.94.128 ( talk) 23:59, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
Just edited the link to "savvy" out, i dont think tok pisin has anything to do with a californian wrestler MikeTango 22:00, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
A Tok-Pisin Wikipedia just opened. Please contribute!
-- Milaiklainim 5 April 2004
why does Broken english ridirect here?
Why is this article not at
Tok Pisin language, instead of that location redirecting here? --
Whimemsz 20:22, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)
Nb. "bikpela" does not primarily mean God. It primarily means "big." To put "God" as the primary meaning is to miss an important TP idiom (God is big, get it?). Besides which, it is more common to say "Papa God" where one would invoke The Big Judeo-Christian Diety in the Sky, anyways. 68.7.98.29 03:05, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
What is the basis for the statement that German creole (whatever that is) was used in German New Guinea? German New Guinea only lasted from 1884 to 1914 -- hardly long enough for creolisation. The influence of German on New Guinea Pidgin is decidedly minor compared to that of English -- the frequently proposed etymology of haus as coming from the German haus is just plain daft: obviously haus is simply house in the Pidgin orthography. Fr. Frank Mihalic's Jacaranda Dictionary and Grammar of Melanesian Pidgin (Milton, Qld: Jacaranda, 1971) remains the single most authoritative source and he simply states it to be "E." Masalai 18:03, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
Some of the info here is inaccurate, it seems. According to Wurm and Mulhausler's "Handbook of Tok Pisin", Tok Pisin has /N/ phonemically. Amungst other things. Bryan 82.44.212.6 21:09, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
A reading of the article on Unserdeutsch indicates that the creole developed over more than the German era (the German influence in the Catholic orphanage referred to continued after the German era). But thirty years of first contact is plenty of time to develop a pidgin - which is all the German era helped to do; the creolization of Tok Pisin is a more recent development. Don't underestimate the German influence. The use of haus pre-dates major english influence, and it is highly likely that it did at least in part have German impetus in its use. The word for hospital haus sik translates a German structure which is not used in English - "krankenhaus". Another example is manki (see my comments below) - which is NOT derived from English - its use was common in the former German Territories, and NO WHERE ELSE in the world where the English had influence, and where piccaninny or its equivalent prevailed. The influence has faded, but is not entirely gone. Regards, Colin Richardson
maski - it doesn't matter, don't worry about it
Does it come from German "macht nichts" (or like "machnix" in some dialects) which has the same meaning?
Vadimka 00:12, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
This sxn starts out about tense/ aspect marking, but discusses a number of generic grammatical things (prepositions, plurals,...) Either change sxn title, or move the non-tense related stuff elsewhere. Mcswell ( talk) 17:25, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
Mi save gut long Tok Pisin tasol mi gat wanpela kwesten. In English we don't refer to le francais but French. So is it proper to refer to it as Tok Pisin rather than Pidgin English? Masalai ( talk) 19:51, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
Is it true that the future marker "bai" comes from English "by and by"? I thought it came from Portuguese "vai" ("goes"). Portuguese has influenced a lot of pidgins and creoles around the world, even pidgins/creoles which are not Portuguese-based. -- Antonielly ( talk) 10:22, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes, Tok Pisin "bai" is an abbreviated alternative of the Tok Pisin word "baimbai" which derives from the old fashioned English expression "by and by." ~~CMC~~
In Tok Pisin, bai means "will". For example: "Em bai wokim" means "he will work". Αδελφος ( talk) 15:15, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
Not impossible that a devout Catholic might refer to the Pope that way I suppose - but hardly standard Pidgin usage! Anyway I have cut it from the "vocabulary" list. In any case "Jesus man" seems unlikely - more idiomatic would be "man bilong Jesus". I fear this one is in the category as such "monsters" (obviously composed by Europeans) as "Mikismasta bilong Jesus" for helicopter, or "bigpela bokis sapos yu paitim long maus i kraiaut" for "piano". These (and others) were both quoted to me as "typical" of pidgin (by people who I suspect of knowing much better) before I went to New Guinea - in practice of course unfamiliar ideas are much more likely to result in the coining of a new loan word than a long-winded circumlocution. --- Soundofmusicals ( talk) 23:43, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
I completely agree. The phrase "magimix bilong Yesus" (Magimix belonging to Jesus) Is entirely apocryphal. Why would someone use a rare (dare I say entirely unfamiliar given the supposed time this phrase supposedly originated) piece of complicated machinery to badly describe another piece of machinery that many folks in PNG where far more likely to have seen. It sounds like a joke that someone took seriously. Since when is a casual mention in a royal fluff piece by The Gaurdian a respectable resource? Mitch 19:23, 21 May 2013 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.255.8.253 ( talk • contribs) 19:23, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
All Papua New Guinean Anglophones refer to New Guinea Pidgin as such when speaking English. My son insists (I assure you I am quoting), "All Australians are illiterate, racist assholes." They are though, notoriously unilingual and I have to conclude that it was some Australian(s) who insisted on referring to it as Tok Pisin when not speaking it. Surely this can and should be fixed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.228.80.1 ( talk) 21:45, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
Should Melanesian Pidgin English really redirect here? I’ve seen that term used to refer not to Tok Pisin specifically, but to a larger group which includes Bislama and Pijin. It’s also surmised that Tok Pisin is “perhaps more commonly” called New Guinea Pidgin in English. I don’t speak Tok Pisin and am not from that area of the world, but have only ever heard it called Tok Pisin. — Wiki Wikardo 20:02, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Would be nice to get a mention of this term somewhere in the article. — Wiki Wikardo 00:39, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
I'm a dabbler here, via an interest in some PNG subjects. My uninformed guess is that tok ples refers to the local language of any of the many PNG places that have their own language (on the basis that ples means "place"). If I'm right, IMHO it would be good to somehow include a few words about tok ples="talk place" up in the introduction where tok ples is mentioned. Linking to vernacular doesn't seem to be quite enough. Lou Sander ( talk) 16:13, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
There's a tag on the main article, suggesting that Tok Pisin alphabet be merged into Tok Pisin, but nobody seems to have started a discussion. I have near-zero knowledge of either subject, but that doesn't mean I can't help.
Merge. The alphabet article is tiny, unlikely to grow, would fit in with the many other details in the Tok Pisin article. Lou Sander ( talk) 15:09, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
Merge. I agree 100% that it belongs in this article rather than as a separate one. A few things that could also be added:
The Haz talk 03:15, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
'bagarap(im) – broken, to break down (from "bugger up") – also used in Papua New Guinea English in contexts that would be considered vulgar in other countries.'
Does that mean that the contexts would be considered vulgar in other countries but are not in PNG? Or does it mean that "bagarap" is used in PNG English in contexts where "bugger up" would be considered too vulgar in other countries? I think it's the second, but that's not what the sentence says. — JerryFriedman (Talk) 16:28, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
I don't know how trustworthy the sources you have regarding the origin of the verb tenses are, so I thought I'd point this out. I'm a native (European) Portuguese speaker, and Tok Pisin was influenced by Portuguese among all those others. The word "bai" to make the future tense in verbs, seems very similar to Portuguese "vai" (literally "goes"), which we use in the exact same way, and is actually pronounced "bai" in most of northern Portugal. Consider that origin instead of English "by and by". On a lesser note, "stap" to indicate the gerund. Instead of English "stop", it may come from Portuguese "estar". "Eating" in Portuguese would be "estar a comer" or "estar comendo". -- Midasminus ( talk) 15:01, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
The choice of "The Lord's Prayer in Tok Pisin" violate the "Neutral point of view" rule. They are many texts in tok pisin why choose a prayer? And a prayer from a foreign belief! Please change the example with a neutral text.
Sylvain Jousse, France. Sylvain24 ( talk) 17:20, 11 August 2014 (UTC) 11/08/2014.
These answers made me very sad. Espreon: ″it exists in so many other languages″ So what? We could use ′Le petit prince′. It has been translated many times too. ;-)
someone should add something. Good idea.
@Soundofmusicals: You are right. I'm not a believer of any kind, in any way. You are right too when you say it is not easy to find good sources but don't tell me that there are no poets, no singers and no writers in PNG... ″PNGans certainly don't look on their Christianity as a "foreign" belief.″ Probably right for young people but when you ask old people about their customs they always start by 'before the missionnaries we used to...' or 'after the missionnaries we had to...'.
My conclussion is: If something is usual it doesn't mean we HAVE to do the same thing. Sylvain24. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sylvain24 ( talk • contribs) 08:47, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
I changed began to develop to developed, because began suggests that it was not yet in a usable state when they stopped! Soundofmusicals reverted, saying, "It has continued to develop since, so yes, they DID just ‘begin’." We're reading different nuances into the verb develop. Others, please comment. — Tamfang ( talk) 04:33, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
Another attempt has been made on the little list of Tok Pisin words in this article. While we wouldn't put such a list in an article about French, Indonesian or Mongolian - the very fact that the lexis of Tok Pisin is (mostly) "derived from English" makes such a list of particular interest in this context. We really need a discussion on this page before we lose it, anyway. - Soundofmusicals ( talk) 09:23, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
Yupanqui ( talk) 11:55, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
Anglophone Papua New Guineans invariably refer to the language in English as New Guinea Pidgin or just plain Pidgin. Word the Australians insist on referring to it in English as Tok Pisin causes hilarity: "Obviously they don't speak any languages other than English and perhaps a bit of Pidgin! Do they refer to French as le français, German as Deutsch, Italian as italiano? Don't they know how ignorant that reveals them to be?" Masalai ( talk) 08:51, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
The section on phonology mentions the phoneme /ŋ/ but does not mention how the written sequence "ng" is pronounced. Given the rule about nasal plus plosive sequences at the ends of words losing the plosive (eg. 'hand' > 'han'), I am therefore certain that binatang ("insect") is pronounced /binataŋ/ (with no idea where the stress goes) and NOT */binataŋg/. But what about between vowels? Does intervocalic "ng" always represent /ŋ/ or /ŋg/ or sometimes one, sometimes the other? For example, how are the words krungutim ("to crush something") and pinga ("finger") pronounced? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.44.76.148 ( talk) 23:42, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
The Phonology section says that Tok Pisin has 17 "core" consonants. However, the table of consonants only has 16 entries. Looking back at the Alphabet section, I can see that the orthography includes both ⟨f⟩ and ⟨j⟩, the likely phonemic counterparts of which (/f/ and /dʒ/) are not in the table. (It does include /ŋ/, for the digraph ⟨ng⟩.) Are these really in the Tok Pisin alphabet? If so, what are they used for?
Further observations: A skim through the examples shows up just one ⟨f⟩, in telefon, and no ⟨j⟩. Other borrowings have replaced English ⟨f⟩ entirely. I looked through the external links for resources that seemed likely to have their own phonological or orthographic information, but I only found a "Sounds" section in one of them (" Tok Pisin background, vocabulary, sounds, and grammar, by Jeff Siegel"), and it doesn't list them.
In fact, I think this article needs some explanation of how the orthography works, rather than just saying "this is its alphabet". Aside from the above issue, the Phonology section also says that Tok Pisin has five "core" vowels, but the Alphabet section list three vowel digraphs without explaining what they're for. Anyone have the necessary knowledge and want to give it a go? -- Perey ( talk) 17:28, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Tok Pisin. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 14:41, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
In the first paragraph: /tɒk ˈpɪsɪn/. In the infobox: [ˌtok piˈsin]. Concise Oxford Companion says Pronounced ‘tock pizzin’. Which is it? -- 188.101.94.74 ( talk) 02:53, 24 September 2018 (UTC)