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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 August 2021 and 3 December 2021. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Trdixon62.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 11:26, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Hi; I've just made the page for Taku River Tlingit First Nation and am asking someone who knows more to check it; I may be wrong in what I've stated, that they includes the Desleinn kwaan - they do have reserves on Teslin Lake, but it's not clear if there are any inhabitants (they may be fishing reserves, e.g.) and there's a separate Teslin Tlingit Council at Teslin, Yukon which must be Desleinn kwaan. Can someone who might know the details please make any needed changes to those pages? Inland Tlinkit/ Inland Tlingit hasn't yet been made and maybe only need be a disambig page to those goernments, although really Atlin people and Teslin people could be made as ethno/history articles, in the same way that Auke people, Taku people etc e≈ist separate from any Native Alaskan government articles that may cover them..... Skookum1 ( talk) 19:54, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
This has now been changed to "pronounced /ˈklink-it/ or /ˈklink-it/", which is clearly redundant and is furthermore not very good usage of IPA. Someone familiar with the topic, please try to correct it. Lfh ( talk) 21:23, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
This might not be good IPA usage, But It is the most accurate ENGLISH phonetic Transcription for laymen. Even among Tlingit scholarly discussions, not much thought is put into the Lingít to Tlingit topic, as it is a “just is” situation. Koox washausen ( talk) 08:29, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
This line irks me a bit "Their name for themselves is Lingít". .... as if Tlingit and Tlinkit weren't. The L-only spelling is just the modern Tlingit language orthography, so far as I understand it. It's not like the other two spelling aren't what they call themselves. Just different spellings; the subtext when I see stuff like this is "the white man got it wrong"....well, no, when modern orthographies were developed for native languages there was an effort to use romanization differently, with some letters not meaning what they mean in English or other euro-languages. I mean, is there a difference in pronunciation between "Tlingit", "Tlinkit" or "Lingit"?? In English or in the Tlingit language?>? Skookum1 ( talk) 04:53, 19 January 2014 (UTC) The details of the pronunciation, as I was informed personally by Gill Story are: The first "l" is, in fact, a voiceless fricative, equal to that with which the Welsh "ll" begins; the "n" in the middle is a genuine alveolar n, velar pronunciation being absent (difficult for most Europeans to do, Turkish speakers being an exception). The "k", if it is a k and not a g (She did not draws my attention to whether it is voiced or voiceless), is totally unaspirated. I'm not sure whether the final "t" is released, but I would think so, in which case it should have been th or, for purists, t followed by t with the circle on top. — Preceding unsigned comment added by John of Wood Green ( talk • contribs) 15:26, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
The Tlingit language has roughly two written. The old translations which had been made by anthropologist who focused on how to accurately record the sounds into a romanized spelling, and the official romanization of Tlingit. The later being official and used in all modern documents. Most confusion on spelling comes from many online scholars using outdated material and sources which have proven to be factually and functionally useless. Lingít (or Łingít for slightly older variation) is the correct way of writing the word and is spoken accurately by Tlingit speakers with a soft airy “L” boarding “th”. Tlingit is the English spelling and is pronounced “klink-it” and I believe originated from Russian documents on the name. The altered tlinkit is a alteration as the “g” is very hard and could be mistaken for a k by some. TLDR; Lingít is how you write it in the traditional language, Tlingit is the English writing, tlinkit is a poor English variant, and it’s pronounced Klink-it to English speakers Koox washausen ( talk) 08:25, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Chipewyan people which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 09:14, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Move. While support for this move was less clear than at other similar RMs recently, supporters were still more numerous, and had stronger arguments. The stronger oppose votes from JorisvS and In ictu oculi referred to the WP:NCL guideline, which has traditionally recommended disambiguating both ethnic groups and their languages. However, they did not address the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC concern, specifically the page view evidence and the fact that Tlingit already redirects to this article, and has for almost all of the three years since the page was moved to Tlingit people. As such, the invocations of the article titles policy (which trumps the guidelines) by several of the supporters become even more compelling. This, taken with what seems to be an emerging consensus that peoples are generally primary topics over their languages, leads me to find a consensus for this move. Cúchullain t/ c 16:28, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
Tlingit people →
Tlingit – title is redirect to current title,
with Uysvdi defending it from being used as a dab page. Current title moved from
Tlingit to "Tlingit people" by Kwami on Feb 1 2011 with no regard for PRIMARYTOPIC despite Usyvdi's observation and actions in the redirect's history that the people are exactly that.
WP:UNDAB is very clear on what should be done here. Relisted.
BDD (
talk) 22:24, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
Skookum1 (
talk)
05:49, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
The article could benefit from a clearer explanation of the concept of the at.oow.
The Tlingits passed down at.oow(s) or blankets that represented trust. Only a Tlingit Indian can inherit one but they can also pass it down to someone they trust, who becomes responsible for caring for it but does not rightfully own it.
Someone reading this would not whether at.oows and blankets are two different things or if at.oow is a Tlingit term for blanket (which I gather would not be correct). Also, the unusual (but I take it correct) punctuation of the word would be likely to confuse people. Should the word be placed in italics? 850 C ( talk) 00:52, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
At.oow with punctuation is the correct Tlingit spelling of the word, Italics would provide implication of it being apart of the word. At.oow is a concept of ownership among the Tlingit, items such as blankets (often regalia button blankets or naaxin blankets), rattles, drums, boxes, canoes are all considered at.oow. Intangible objects too are at.oow such as songs, stories, crests, etc. it’s vaguely comparable to western ideals such as copyright and heirlooms.
Something i should mention about at.oow is that this spelling is both singular and plural, thus the “s” isn’t needed for either English or Tlingit writings Koox washausen ( talk) 02:34, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
Jean Taylor's entry links to /info/en/?search=Jean_Taylor but that appears to be a different person than the Tlingit artist Jean Taylor. The artist's own website bio is http://www.jtaylorfineart.com/biography.html but I'm not sure if there are good sources available for writing a Wikipedia article to link to instead. Spidra ( talk) 07:39, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
The Tlingit people owned lots of slaves. They even erected the Lincoln Totem Pole to criticize the US government for freeing their slaves, as a demand for compensation for their "loss". Isn't their involvement in American slave trade and oppression highly relevant and important info? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8388:7045:8480:F55B:7633:4FB7:6F8B ( talk) 23:49, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
In the language section I believe that adding a bit about the "alphabet" or "lettering" would be good information. It would add more to the article without drawing on. Even just saying how many vowels and consonants would be nice to see in a piece like this. I don't think that adding the whole alphabet chart is necessary, but just saying how many letters and the different parts of the mouth used to pronounce things would be information many would find interesting. The language section is small and I think that it could be expanded a bit more. Reference: BEING AND PLACE AMONG THE TLINGIT, By: Thomas F. Thornton
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Trdixon62 ( talk • contribs) 01:31, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
@ Trdixon62: I think your suggested addition of some information about the "alphabet" drawn from the Thornton source would be a great place to start. Also you might see if you can locate any information in the Thornton book that could verify the information included in the first paragraph of the language section that currently is in need of a citation. Nice work. Shackpoet ( talk) 20:06, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
Along with the things I have suggested I talked with a People who do speak the Tlingit language I learned that there are about 200 speakers in total for the U.S.. One of the people I talked to was Lance Twitchell, a Tlingit language professor as UAS. 150 of that 200 are people currently learning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Trdixon62 ( talk • contribs) 23:40, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
@ Trdixon62: There are some good numbers and figures specific to speakers included here in X'unei Lance Twitchell's PhD thesis that you could reference. " Recent estimates have determined that the Tlingit language has about 80 birth speakers of various levels, and 50 second language learners that could be considered at the “intermediate” level or higher according to ACTFL scales. There are probably only 10 speakers remaining who could be considered fully fluent and capable of higher forms of speaking, and most of them are over 70 years old." Twitchell, X. L. (2018). For our little grandchildren: Language revitalization among the Tlingit (Unpublished doctoral dissertation). University of Hawai'i, Hilo, Hawai'i. http://hdl.handle.net/11122/9707 Shackpoet ( talk) 01:15, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
It seems that the list of ḵwáans omits at least one clan, the Daḵl’aweidí clan of Angoon. Is that a mistake, or have I misunderstood something? — Mark Dominus ( talk) 17:19, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
I notice there isn't any citation for the claim that the Russian name Koloshi (Колоши) comes from a Sugpiaq-Alutiiq term kulut'ruaq for the labret worn by women. I can't find that term or evidence that it was ever applied to Tlingits. Anyone have a reference? Gholton ( talk) 13:08, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 August 2021 and 3 December 2021. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Trdixon62.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 11:26, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Hi; I've just made the page for Taku River Tlingit First Nation and am asking someone who knows more to check it; I may be wrong in what I've stated, that they includes the Desleinn kwaan - they do have reserves on Teslin Lake, but it's not clear if there are any inhabitants (they may be fishing reserves, e.g.) and there's a separate Teslin Tlingit Council at Teslin, Yukon which must be Desleinn kwaan. Can someone who might know the details please make any needed changes to those pages? Inland Tlinkit/ Inland Tlingit hasn't yet been made and maybe only need be a disambig page to those goernments, although really Atlin people and Teslin people could be made as ethno/history articles, in the same way that Auke people, Taku people etc e≈ist separate from any Native Alaskan government articles that may cover them..... Skookum1 ( talk) 19:54, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
This has now been changed to "pronounced /ˈklink-it/ or /ˈklink-it/", which is clearly redundant and is furthermore not very good usage of IPA. Someone familiar with the topic, please try to correct it. Lfh ( talk) 21:23, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
This might not be good IPA usage, But It is the most accurate ENGLISH phonetic Transcription for laymen. Even among Tlingit scholarly discussions, not much thought is put into the Lingít to Tlingit topic, as it is a “just is” situation. Koox washausen ( talk) 08:29, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
This line irks me a bit "Their name for themselves is Lingít". .... as if Tlingit and Tlinkit weren't. The L-only spelling is just the modern Tlingit language orthography, so far as I understand it. It's not like the other two spelling aren't what they call themselves. Just different spellings; the subtext when I see stuff like this is "the white man got it wrong"....well, no, when modern orthographies were developed for native languages there was an effort to use romanization differently, with some letters not meaning what they mean in English or other euro-languages. I mean, is there a difference in pronunciation between "Tlingit", "Tlinkit" or "Lingit"?? In English or in the Tlingit language?>? Skookum1 ( talk) 04:53, 19 January 2014 (UTC) The details of the pronunciation, as I was informed personally by Gill Story are: The first "l" is, in fact, a voiceless fricative, equal to that with which the Welsh "ll" begins; the "n" in the middle is a genuine alveolar n, velar pronunciation being absent (difficult for most Europeans to do, Turkish speakers being an exception). The "k", if it is a k and not a g (She did not draws my attention to whether it is voiced or voiceless), is totally unaspirated. I'm not sure whether the final "t" is released, but I would think so, in which case it should have been th or, for purists, t followed by t with the circle on top. — Preceding unsigned comment added by John of Wood Green ( talk • contribs) 15:26, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
The Tlingit language has roughly two written. The old translations which had been made by anthropologist who focused on how to accurately record the sounds into a romanized spelling, and the official romanization of Tlingit. The later being official and used in all modern documents. Most confusion on spelling comes from many online scholars using outdated material and sources which have proven to be factually and functionally useless. Lingít (or Łingít for slightly older variation) is the correct way of writing the word and is spoken accurately by Tlingit speakers with a soft airy “L” boarding “th”. Tlingit is the English spelling and is pronounced “klink-it” and I believe originated from Russian documents on the name. The altered tlinkit is a alteration as the “g” is very hard and could be mistaken for a k by some. TLDR; Lingít is how you write it in the traditional language, Tlingit is the English writing, tlinkit is a poor English variant, and it’s pronounced Klink-it to English speakers Koox washausen ( talk) 08:25, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Chipewyan people which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 09:14, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Move. While support for this move was less clear than at other similar RMs recently, supporters were still more numerous, and had stronger arguments. The stronger oppose votes from JorisvS and In ictu oculi referred to the WP:NCL guideline, which has traditionally recommended disambiguating both ethnic groups and their languages. However, they did not address the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC concern, specifically the page view evidence and the fact that Tlingit already redirects to this article, and has for almost all of the three years since the page was moved to Tlingit people. As such, the invocations of the article titles policy (which trumps the guidelines) by several of the supporters become even more compelling. This, taken with what seems to be an emerging consensus that peoples are generally primary topics over their languages, leads me to find a consensus for this move. Cúchullain t/ c 16:28, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
Tlingit people →
Tlingit – title is redirect to current title,
with Uysvdi defending it from being used as a dab page. Current title moved from
Tlingit to "Tlingit people" by Kwami on Feb 1 2011 with no regard for PRIMARYTOPIC despite Usyvdi's observation and actions in the redirect's history that the people are exactly that.
WP:UNDAB is very clear on what should be done here. Relisted.
BDD (
talk) 22:24, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
Skookum1 (
talk)
05:49, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
The article could benefit from a clearer explanation of the concept of the at.oow.
The Tlingits passed down at.oow(s) or blankets that represented trust. Only a Tlingit Indian can inherit one but they can also pass it down to someone they trust, who becomes responsible for caring for it but does not rightfully own it.
Someone reading this would not whether at.oows and blankets are two different things or if at.oow is a Tlingit term for blanket (which I gather would not be correct). Also, the unusual (but I take it correct) punctuation of the word would be likely to confuse people. Should the word be placed in italics? 850 C ( talk) 00:52, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
At.oow with punctuation is the correct Tlingit spelling of the word, Italics would provide implication of it being apart of the word. At.oow is a concept of ownership among the Tlingit, items such as blankets (often regalia button blankets or naaxin blankets), rattles, drums, boxes, canoes are all considered at.oow. Intangible objects too are at.oow such as songs, stories, crests, etc. it’s vaguely comparable to western ideals such as copyright and heirlooms.
Something i should mention about at.oow is that this spelling is both singular and plural, thus the “s” isn’t needed for either English or Tlingit writings Koox washausen ( talk) 02:34, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
Jean Taylor's entry links to /info/en/?search=Jean_Taylor but that appears to be a different person than the Tlingit artist Jean Taylor. The artist's own website bio is http://www.jtaylorfineart.com/biography.html but I'm not sure if there are good sources available for writing a Wikipedia article to link to instead. Spidra ( talk) 07:39, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
The Tlingit people owned lots of slaves. They even erected the Lincoln Totem Pole to criticize the US government for freeing their slaves, as a demand for compensation for their "loss". Isn't their involvement in American slave trade and oppression highly relevant and important info? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8388:7045:8480:F55B:7633:4FB7:6F8B ( talk) 23:49, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
In the language section I believe that adding a bit about the "alphabet" or "lettering" would be good information. It would add more to the article without drawing on. Even just saying how many vowels and consonants would be nice to see in a piece like this. I don't think that adding the whole alphabet chart is necessary, but just saying how many letters and the different parts of the mouth used to pronounce things would be information many would find interesting. The language section is small and I think that it could be expanded a bit more. Reference: BEING AND PLACE AMONG THE TLINGIT, By: Thomas F. Thornton
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Trdixon62 ( talk • contribs) 01:31, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
@ Trdixon62: I think your suggested addition of some information about the "alphabet" drawn from the Thornton source would be a great place to start. Also you might see if you can locate any information in the Thornton book that could verify the information included in the first paragraph of the language section that currently is in need of a citation. Nice work. Shackpoet ( talk) 20:06, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
Along with the things I have suggested I talked with a People who do speak the Tlingit language I learned that there are about 200 speakers in total for the U.S.. One of the people I talked to was Lance Twitchell, a Tlingit language professor as UAS. 150 of that 200 are people currently learning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Trdixon62 ( talk • contribs) 23:40, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
@ Trdixon62: There are some good numbers and figures specific to speakers included here in X'unei Lance Twitchell's PhD thesis that you could reference. " Recent estimates have determined that the Tlingit language has about 80 birth speakers of various levels, and 50 second language learners that could be considered at the “intermediate” level or higher according to ACTFL scales. There are probably only 10 speakers remaining who could be considered fully fluent and capable of higher forms of speaking, and most of them are over 70 years old." Twitchell, X. L. (2018). For our little grandchildren: Language revitalization among the Tlingit (Unpublished doctoral dissertation). University of Hawai'i, Hilo, Hawai'i. http://hdl.handle.net/11122/9707 Shackpoet ( talk) 01:15, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
It seems that the list of ḵwáans omits at least one clan, the Daḵl’aweidí clan of Angoon. Is that a mistake, or have I misunderstood something? — Mark Dominus ( talk) 17:19, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
I notice there isn't any citation for the claim that the Russian name Koloshi (Колоши) comes from a Sugpiaq-Alutiiq term kulut'ruaq for the labret worn by women. I can't find that term or evidence that it was ever applied to Tlingits. Anyone have a reference? Gholton ( talk) 13:08, 19 February 2024 (UTC)