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Also, the screen name of a liberal posting on political forums.
Isn't the Florentine Codex a primary source? If we citited that wouldn't it make it "correct".
Xuchilbara 15:22, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Ah then must be a typo or mispelling. Xuchilbara 21:39, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Lets see here...
From _A Scattering of Jades_, which is a collection of works translated by Thelma Sullivan, stanza 3 of the Song of Tlaloc on page 170 says, "Ahuiya! My master, Nahualpilli, the Sorcerer Prince truly you have brought forth your own sustenance".
As for the Florentine, the same can be found in Book 2, part III p.224 of the 1981 J. O. Anderson limited edition published by the School of American Research and the University of Utah. Except there it's spelled "Naualpilli".
I posted this correction months ago on this discussion list, but I don't know what happened to it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.56.236.98 ( talk) 02:36, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Since he was the MEXICAN rain god how could he have been worshiped in El Salvador? Do they speak Náhuatl down there? I don't think so but maybe some similar Uto-Aztecan language like Náhuat. All Meso-American cultures have a similar rain god like like Cocijo (Miztec), Tajin (Totonac) or Chac (Mayan). Is this really correct? -- Tlalocatecútli 21:56, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
According to The Aztecs - People of the Sun by Alphonso Caso, Tlaloc is also the god of lightning so the text that said so should have remained. 216.67.161.230 16:08, 5 December 2006 (UTC)Tlalocatecútli
For those of you who can't seem to find the reference to "Nahualpilli" being one of Tlaloc's names, please see Book II "The Ceremonies" of Sahagun's Florentine Codex, specifically "Tlalloc. icujc" (The Song of Tlaloc). Also, see Sullivan's _Scattering of Jades_. Likewise, Oliver's _Mockeries and Metamorphoses_, while primarly about Tezcatlipoca, also discusses this name in relation to Tlaloc. In fact, I've yet to see a Mesoamerican scholar discount Nahualpilli as one of Tlaloc's titles. Honestly, this is very basic scholarship, and this issue should've been resolved a long time ago. If such a word can never exist in classic Nahuatl, then why did Thelma Sullivan ever bother? She was only one of the greatest Nahuatl linguists that ever lived. If the Florentine is suddenly considered "specialized" sourcing, then I'm afraid that most of the Mesoamerican articles on Wikipedia need to be highly edited. I'd also like to know why a primary source can't be referenced in the article, since Taube's book, full of all the mistakes that it is (and it is, indeed, full of mistakes and pet theories on his part), is freely used as a source.
I'd furthermore like to ask why this article mentions nothing in depth of Tlaloc's cave/mountain associations, lightning associations, appearances in mythology (with citation), astronomical associations (as per the Borgia, etc), his pre-Aztec history or his ties with warfare. And how about a real iconography discussion? Really, this article is of exceptionally low quality at the moment, and requires much improvement. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.237.103.215 ( talk) 01:07, 2 April 2007 (UTC).
In Náhuatl accute accents are used to show which syllable is emphasized. For this reason the "disputed Spanish" accents you removed from Tláloc were legitimate and even desirable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.193.87.154 ( talk • contribs)
Not all readers know this or that the emphasis is on the last syllabe in Mayan languages. Not all of us can read the phonetic rendering or know where to look it up so in my view the diacritical marks are useful.
Found this fascinating item while doing research on Cantinflas in a periodicals database: Tlaloc received one write-in vote in the Mexican presidential election of July 5, 1964, coming in behind Cantinflas, who received two.(Associated Press. "Write-In votes" (news brief), The Dallas Morning News, July 24, 1964, section 1, page 5. Wording is mine.)
Incidentally, the AP news brief cited refers to him as "Tlaloc, the centuries-old Aztec stone god recently moved to Mexico City ... ." I mention that because that suggests there might be relevant articles in newspaper databases AND because the moving of the statue suggests one reason why he'd have been sufficiently at the forefront of voters' minds to get any votes at all. Lawikitejana 06:25, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
This tearing off of the fingernails of children so as to make them cry - what is the source? I suggest this horror story be removed if no source is brought forward. 77.162.130.139 ( talk) 21:15, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
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There are at least 10 mentions of Tlaloc in The Illuminatus Trilogy. This notation was apparently undone by user:Doug Weller as "unsourced" and "not significant". Leaving aside its significance for the moment, what would constituted proper sourcing for this type of notation? I have a PDF of the book and a search for the word generates 10 hits (I could quote one or more passages and refer to page numbers in a printed edition). Would that be sufficient sourcing? Hazratio ( talk) 19:10, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
I think this article needs an overview of proper objective voice and sources 67.0.210.224 ( talk) 08:39, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Also, the screen name of a liberal posting on political forums.
Isn't the Florentine Codex a primary source? If we citited that wouldn't it make it "correct".
Xuchilbara 15:22, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Ah then must be a typo or mispelling. Xuchilbara 21:39, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Lets see here...
From _A Scattering of Jades_, which is a collection of works translated by Thelma Sullivan, stanza 3 of the Song of Tlaloc on page 170 says, "Ahuiya! My master, Nahualpilli, the Sorcerer Prince truly you have brought forth your own sustenance".
As for the Florentine, the same can be found in Book 2, part III p.224 of the 1981 J. O. Anderson limited edition published by the School of American Research and the University of Utah. Except there it's spelled "Naualpilli".
I posted this correction months ago on this discussion list, but I don't know what happened to it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.56.236.98 ( talk) 02:36, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Since he was the MEXICAN rain god how could he have been worshiped in El Salvador? Do they speak Náhuatl down there? I don't think so but maybe some similar Uto-Aztecan language like Náhuat. All Meso-American cultures have a similar rain god like like Cocijo (Miztec), Tajin (Totonac) or Chac (Mayan). Is this really correct? -- Tlalocatecútli 21:56, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
According to The Aztecs - People of the Sun by Alphonso Caso, Tlaloc is also the god of lightning so the text that said so should have remained. 216.67.161.230 16:08, 5 December 2006 (UTC)Tlalocatecútli
For those of you who can't seem to find the reference to "Nahualpilli" being one of Tlaloc's names, please see Book II "The Ceremonies" of Sahagun's Florentine Codex, specifically "Tlalloc. icujc" (The Song of Tlaloc). Also, see Sullivan's _Scattering of Jades_. Likewise, Oliver's _Mockeries and Metamorphoses_, while primarly about Tezcatlipoca, also discusses this name in relation to Tlaloc. In fact, I've yet to see a Mesoamerican scholar discount Nahualpilli as one of Tlaloc's titles. Honestly, this is very basic scholarship, and this issue should've been resolved a long time ago. If such a word can never exist in classic Nahuatl, then why did Thelma Sullivan ever bother? She was only one of the greatest Nahuatl linguists that ever lived. If the Florentine is suddenly considered "specialized" sourcing, then I'm afraid that most of the Mesoamerican articles on Wikipedia need to be highly edited. I'd also like to know why a primary source can't be referenced in the article, since Taube's book, full of all the mistakes that it is (and it is, indeed, full of mistakes and pet theories on his part), is freely used as a source.
I'd furthermore like to ask why this article mentions nothing in depth of Tlaloc's cave/mountain associations, lightning associations, appearances in mythology (with citation), astronomical associations (as per the Borgia, etc), his pre-Aztec history or his ties with warfare. And how about a real iconography discussion? Really, this article is of exceptionally low quality at the moment, and requires much improvement. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.237.103.215 ( talk) 01:07, 2 April 2007 (UTC).
In Náhuatl accute accents are used to show which syllable is emphasized. For this reason the "disputed Spanish" accents you removed from Tláloc were legitimate and even desirable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.193.87.154 ( talk • contribs)
Not all readers know this or that the emphasis is on the last syllabe in Mayan languages. Not all of us can read the phonetic rendering or know where to look it up so in my view the diacritical marks are useful.
Found this fascinating item while doing research on Cantinflas in a periodicals database: Tlaloc received one write-in vote in the Mexican presidential election of July 5, 1964, coming in behind Cantinflas, who received two.(Associated Press. "Write-In votes" (news brief), The Dallas Morning News, July 24, 1964, section 1, page 5. Wording is mine.)
Incidentally, the AP news brief cited refers to him as "Tlaloc, the centuries-old Aztec stone god recently moved to Mexico City ... ." I mention that because that suggests there might be relevant articles in newspaper databases AND because the moving of the statue suggests one reason why he'd have been sufficiently at the forefront of voters' minds to get any votes at all. Lawikitejana 06:25, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
This tearing off of the fingernails of children so as to make them cry - what is the source? I suggest this horror story be removed if no source is brought forward. 77.162.130.139 ( talk) 21:15, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Tlaloc. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
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This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 09:12, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
There are at least 10 mentions of Tlaloc in The Illuminatus Trilogy. This notation was apparently undone by user:Doug Weller as "unsourced" and "not significant". Leaving aside its significance for the moment, what would constituted proper sourcing for this type of notation? I have a PDF of the book and a search for the word generates 10 hits (I could quote one or more passages and refer to page numbers in a printed edition). Would that be sufficient sourcing? Hazratio ( talk) 19:10, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
I think this article needs an overview of proper objective voice and sources 67.0.210.224 ( talk) 08:39, 25 January 2024 (UTC)