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I corrected the location of Titian's tomb to the Frari (and included the full name of that church, plus a remark about his being the only church burial allowed during that plague outbreak. rturus 15:43, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Is it possible to add a list of his known works? I do not have such a list, sadly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.9.26.141 ( talk • contribs)
What was considered to be Titian's greatest work?
-- 216.135.84.188 16:05, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
Any Art Historian (of which I am) will inform you that there is no such thing as a greatest work. Indeed Mark Twain described Venus of Urbino as "the foulest, the vilest, the obscenest picture the world possesses -- Titian's Venus". Titians works were also so varied that it is difficult to compare. He did, afterall, paint religious works as well as his poesia series.
Overall, I think that the greatest work should not be included as it is too subjective.
Wasn't a color of red also named after Titian? At least that's what I've read.
Sorry, but I had to tag this after seeing such comments as:
"...the most beautiful example of which is the wonderful Christ of The Tribute Money, at Dresden, a face whose delicacy, spirituality, and moral charm have never been surpassed by any other School."
and this:
"Titian is a painter who by wondrous magic of genius and of art satisfies the eye, and through the eye the feelings, sometimes the mind."
I'll try to help, but I think this needs a complete copyedit to help with biased statements such as these. Rampart 13:18, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
Also, that critique section is insane. Besides the fact that it's a copyvio of this page [2], it's without a credited author. I don't see how we can cite uncredited criticism. And even if it came from an expert, fair use still doesn't cover quotations that extensive. -- djrobgordon 04:31, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
Could I please say that most decent art writings are not writting in 'flowery' style. Far from it. Academics consider this worthless padding as it serves no real function except to sound pretencious.
I would also like to say that texts should not really be used from articles such as the Catholic encyclopedia. These are biased text and therefore are not suitable for an unbiased web encyclopedia. These sources are suitable for preliminary research, but really must not be quoted. Afterall, this page is about Titian not religion.
This whole article seems to be badly translated from, probably, Spanish. Needs to be rewritten in literate English. Factually innacurate. I have corrected the biggest howler, changing 'Consumption of Madonna' to 'Assumption of the Virgin' as it is generally known in English language art history texts. It is also, as any good guide book will reveal, still in situ, not in the Accademia. Lavinfont. June 2006
The art theorist Giovanni Lomazzo in 1590 declared Titian "the sun amidst small stars not only among the Italians but all the painters of the world" [quoted in the Britannica-2004]. -- Ghirla -трёп- 20:59, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
I feel this link is sub-par at best. It is very hard to read and poorly put together. I am going to see if I can find another source for the information which cites it so it can be removed. If anyone else wants to change it, please feel free. -- Saint savin 20:45, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
The painting of the huntress (fifth image down, I think?) is missing a title in the caption. I don't know enough about Titian to complete this by myself, but I thought I would point it out. Does someone else know what it is? Still 21:47, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
this page is copied almost exactly from http://experts.about.com/e/t/ti/titian.htm
I am in complete agreement with others who have drawn attention to the preposterously florid language in this article. Where on earth did the original text come from? The whole thing reads like a parody of artistic criticism. It badly needs paring down to just the salient facts about the artist's life and works. It must be possible to comment on the relevant changes in his style, technique etc. in an objective and rational manner. Godingo 22:29, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
So was Francesco his younger or older brother? This Titian article claims both. "Francesco Vecellio, his younger brother, later became a painter of some note in Venice" and "Francesco Vecellio, his elder brother, was introduced to painting by Titian". The Wikipedia article about Francesco states that he was Titian's elder. The Grove Dictionary of Art states that Francesco was Titian's older brother and was already trained as a painter in Venice when Titian joined him there. From what I know I am inclined to think Francesco was the older brother, even though he came under the influence of Titian at a later point, but as I haven't studied this matter thoroughly I hesitate to make changes. In any case both of the quoted sentences are factually incorrect as far as I'm aware. 88.114.240.85 18:04, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
The caption of the picture includes the words "the classiest painter north of Rome." Possibly vandalism, but I cannot find an earlier version of the page with text that seems more appropriate. 66.99.254.5
I'd noticed that before, also. Replaced 'classiest' with 'preeminent'. JNW 16:46, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
The caption under the "Assunta" claims this painting is a fresco, but it is not. It's an oil painting, an altarpiece over the high altar in the Church of the Frari in Venice Maestrodan ( talk) 01:38, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Madonna title. I have added the better known name of the painting that the contributor refers to as the "Pesaro Madonna", i.e. Madonna di Ca' Pesaro. rturus ( talk) 05:18, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
The article now states that Titian is a representative of High Renaissance art. But isn't this wrong both chronologically and stylistically? Didn't the High Renaissance peak around 1500-1520, nearly a century before Titian began to be important? And isn't his own style--exuberant, wild gestures, with rough, impressionistic brush strokes--quite at odds with the Renaissance? Interlingua 14:07, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
Though Tiziano Vecellio lived a remarkably long life and died in the middle of the Mannerist age, I've never read about him as a Mannerist in any art history book that I've browsed: he's always grouped with the great Renaissance painters. Don't forget he was born and died--more or less--in the same years of Michelangelo.-- 93.40.132.183 ( talk) 16:56, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
We have conflicting information on his year of death, with the infobox saying 1572 and the article's leader saying 1576, so which is right? TheRetroGuy ( talk) 12:38, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Ref added, and intro changed to show anywhere between 1473 and 1490, though that c. 1488 is favoured. Nice to see that the extent of the BBC's research is wikipedia... 77.96.103.219 ( talk) 13:25, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Conservatives had just admitted changing the date. Rebel Redcoat ( talk) 16:06, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Is the political spat over his age really of any interest to someone reading about the artist? I'm inclined to just delete that last paragraph as being irrelevant to the subject, but I don't want to start an edit war. — PhilHibbs | talk 13:40, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
I read that he was born in approximately 1488, which would be more credible, considering the year of his death. Anglius 23:26, 1 June 2005 (UTC)
Perhaps I'm over-zealous, but I've protected the page temporarily. -- Dweller ( talk) 16:38, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
I think semi-protection is good enough. I also think that by fully protecting the article, we may be barring those with more references to add. Totally understand if full protection is implemented. 77.96.103.219 ( talk) 16:49, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
{{ editprotected}} In the News section : "There is current debate about when he died, due to a debate between British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, who believed Titian died at 90 and David Cameron who believes he died at 86 during Prime Minister's Question Time on Wednesday 11 February 2008.[15]" should be changed to " ... on Wednesday 11 February 2009.[15]"
- I'd suggest a more radical change, David Cameron obviously does not believe that Titian died during Prime Minister's Question Time, which is what that sentence appears to mean. River sider ( talk) 16:56, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
This made me laugh a lot. As mentioned, the current text suggests that Titian died during PMQ. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.6.250.44 ( talk) 17:05, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
I have reduced protection to semi-protection as there was little vandalism from registered users. Also news traffic tends to drop off very quickly so I have set the expiry to 1 day. Feel free to change up if things become unmanageable. ed g2s • talk 16:57, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Titiangate - Can I start my own wiki page? And we'll see if we can get that in the news..? Eddie —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
92.238.57.194 (
talk)
18:13, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Is a mention of Winston Smith relevant? Jackiespeel ( talk) 14:50, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
About two hours ago, "and then directed the BBC to the article for them to use as verification" was inserted into the article: [6]. The text was placed inside a body of text that was already cited. Looking at the source cited, I cannot see that the source verifies the new text installed. I believe the text should be removed as a result, which is something I can't do since I am not autoconfirmed. Thank you very much in advance if my request is responded to. Allventon ( talk) 02:42, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
The story that the Conservative Party HQ directed the BBC to Wikipedia was definitely broadcast on the PM program (17:00-18:00, reference at circa 17:51 according to BBC iPlayer). Unfortunately I can't find any non-ephemeral source. -- Soronlin ( talk) 09:24, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
The Louvre website gives Titian's birth as 1488/1490, the National Gallery's website as c.1487. Why are these excluded whereas the Met. Museum and Getty Inst. are deemed fit for inclusion?(both c.1488). The National Gallery ref was present yesterday, but has since been deleted. Catiline63 ( talk) 09:52, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
Well, a reference from a reputable source is a reference from a reputable source, regardless of its obscurity. Also, as said, the Louvre website repeatedly gives 88/90 - i.e. on just about any page where Titian is mentioned. Repeated citations such as that of the Louvre should be included, at least. Incidentally, art historian/dealer Philip Mould on today's "Daily Politics" (BBC2, 1200-30) gave as a birth date "anywhere between '86 and '91". Yesterday's "Channel 4 News" (1900-50), citing a unnamed source from the National Gallery, gave "about 1490". Such sources, albeit mediated through news sources, are valid. All are corroborative of the sources already given, but I feel the Louvre especially (and possibly NG) should be cited if only to illustrate the scope of the modern consensus. Catiline63 ( talk) 12:43, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
The National Gallery of Art in Washington, DC. says around 1490 I think the article currently covers this ambiguity fairly well.... Modernist ( talk) 14:28, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
Actually, I forgot to look at the new NG catalogue ( Penny, Nicholas, National Gallery Catalogues (new series): The Sixteenth Century Italian Paintings, Volume II, Venice 1540-1600, 2008), which says "probably in 1490 or a little earlier" without a discussion. Since we now have the Louvre, NG, NGA & Hope going for this sort of formula, i think we should go to "probably c. 1488/90" in the article. Any objections? Johnbod ( talk) 13:12, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
This article should be fully reverted to 6th February 2009 and protected, before the recent spate of mindless vandalism made it unreadable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.193.61.125 ( talk) 12:47, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
This article seems to be becoming more and more complicated. Surely we can just decide on one date, and not present a whole lot of options. Anyway, the article must be consistent, and what is in the intro must also be in the infobox. Thank goodness his date of death is known - or is someone going to find some obscure reference disputing this too. I hope not. Wallie ( talk) 14:07, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
Does the recent argument about Titian's age really deserve its own mention on the article, especially including the bit about wikipedia itself? I dont mind if everyone else supports its mention, but i think it should have some agreement before putting something thats only been "big" news for 24 hours and only for people in the UK on the main article. Does William Shakespeares article get edited every time someone misquotes one of his famous lines when trying to appear smart? i doubt it. BritishWatcher ( talk) 01:26, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
It would be interesting to have information that would clarify the vandalism and restoration of Titian paintings that is described by the 1849 book "Original Treatises, Dating from the XIIth to the XVIIIth Centuries on the Arts of Painting, Volume II", by Mary Philadelphia Merrifield (available online). The book translates part of the work "On The Restoration Of The Royal Paintings Under The Venetian Government" by Pietro Edwards. On p862-863, Edwards mentions a robbery of part of a Titian painting. He says a square of canvas abut 5 by 5 inches that contained the head in the painting called (by Edwards) "Faith" was cut out and stolen in 1777. There is some unclear language about the painting being restored. I interpret it to mean that someone painted a new head and put it in the picture. It also says that the same restorer( who may have been Edwards himself) "filled up the empty space remaining in the Adoration of Bonifazio, by inserting the head of one of the Magi", which may have been stolen by the same robber.
I can't find any modern information about these events. Does the painting "Faith" still exist? Does it still have the restored head?
Tashiro (
talk)
22:45, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
Someone on the Bad Astronomy And Universe Today web forum pointed out that "The Faith" may refer to the painting "Doge Grimani adoring Faith", mentioned in the article. It should be a reasonably objective question whether this painting has a restored head on the Faith or not. Unfortunately, searching on the name of the painting on the web produces page after page of advertisements for companies selling reproductions of paintings. I don't know what organization now has custody of this painting.
Tashiro ( talk) 02:39, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
This article names Eleanora of Gonzaga, duchess of Urbino, as subject of the portrait La Bella (as named by the Catholic Encyclopedia). But the identity of the sitter is not conclusively known. Her features do not correspond to other portraits of Eleanora, but closely resemble those of the Venus of Urbino, painted in Urbino the following year.
Can anybody confirm if Titian is the artist responsible for the portrait of Aodh Ó Néill (1550-1616), the man who is arguably the most significant figure in Ireland's history in the past 500 years, which was in the Vatican until a couple of centuries ago when it was brought back to Ireland and is now in a private collection here? This is the portrait in question. 86.40.52.44 ( talk) 20:38, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
The artist in question is clearly influenced by Titian - see [9] - but as the user above pointed out, the dates don't work at all. Would be interesting if anyone knew more. Elphit ( talk) 10:43, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Titian was born in the year of 1477, but the exact date is unknown. He was born into a family of four and his father was a distinguished councilman. He moved to Venice when he was ten years old and studied art with a mosaicist by the name of Sebastian Zuccato. Five years later, he worked in Giovanni Bellini's studio, who was one of the most popular artists of the time. In the studio, he meant many other artists around his age, whos names where Giovanni Palma da Serinalta, Lorenzo Lotto, Sebastiano Luciani, and Giorgio da Castelfranco. Titian's early work included the pieces: "Ecce Homo", "A Child Testifying to Its Mother's Innocence", and "The Saint Healing the Young Man with a Broken Limb", which he created while in a partnership with Giorgione. There works while partners were said to be indistinguishable, as they had extremely similar styles of painting at that time. Later in life, after Giorgione died, Titians work became more dramatic, with pieces like "The Death of St. Peter of Verona", and "Martyrdom of St. Peter". During Titian's last 20 years, he dedicated his time to painting portraits, and as the eternal perfectionist, he only finished a few great works. Some paintings he would continue working on for ten years, constantly adding new details. Titian kept painting until he died from the black plauge, which was very common ant that time. When Titian died, he was nearly one hundred years old. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drydenbrown ( talk • contribs) 20:33, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
Surely Titian was Venetian and not Italian?
It was the Republic of Venice, and not Italy, until 1796. And had a different flag, currency, language, government and military until then.
Some consistency would be good -- I note Colombus[ [10]] is listed as Genoese and not Italian, though likewise born in what is now part of Italy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tonypercy ( talk • contribs) 00:50, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
My favourite Titian painting is not here! Where's Bacchus and Ariadne, one of Titian's greatest works? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.211.126.250 ( talk) 15:21, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
I will try now to add some works that are famous and some that are less known, just to be informative. Also try to incorporate the long captions in text, and put the picture beside, thus making place for more pictures in the body of the article. Hafspajen ( talk) 10:41, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
Not all this needs to be added but indeed many of his great works are not shown, and the gallery is compared to other artists is quite poor.
Hafspajen (
talk)
22:41, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
Images in the gallery collectively do have encyclopedic value and add to the reader's understanding of the subject. Galleries are not discuraged. Please see also this discussion here, Talk:Charles Marion Russell.
Images are typically interspersed individually throughout an article near the relevant text (see WP:MOSIMAGES). However, the use of a gallery section may be appropriate in some Wikipedia articles if a collection of images can illustrate aspects of a subject that cannot be easily or adequately described by text or individual images. The images in the gallery collectively must have encyclopedic value and add to the reader's understanding of the subject.
Hafspajen ( talk) 06:59, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Before making significant changes to referenced sourced historical data; please reference those changes with reliable sources... Modernist ( talk) 23:02, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
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In the Early Years section there is mention of a 'broker's patent, termed La Sanseria or Senseria (a privilege much coveted by rising or risen artists)'. It seems to be important for artists of the time, including Titian, but there doesn't seem any explanation that I can find of what a broker's patent actually is. Does anyone know? Thankyou. Mov326 ( talk) 05:23, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
I see it is mentioned in an old section above, #Colors, and now there is a separate article on the topic, but as far as I can see there is no mention of this in this article, and I believe there should be some — both of the term and of the claim that he supposedly liked to paint redheads. It would be nice if one finds a way to squeeze it somewhere in :) -- Base ( talk) 10:07, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
Hello, anybody hanging around who might take a look at the girl on the left, whom she might be? Thank you so much for your time. Lotje ( talk) 16:35, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
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![]() | This article is written in British English with Oxford spelling (colour, realize, organization, analyse; note that -ize is used instead of -ise) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
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I corrected the location of Titian's tomb to the Frari (and included the full name of that church, plus a remark about his being the only church burial allowed during that plague outbreak. rturus 15:43, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Is it possible to add a list of his known works? I do not have such a list, sadly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.9.26.141 ( talk • contribs)
What was considered to be Titian's greatest work?
-- 216.135.84.188 16:05, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
Any Art Historian (of which I am) will inform you that there is no such thing as a greatest work. Indeed Mark Twain described Venus of Urbino as "the foulest, the vilest, the obscenest picture the world possesses -- Titian's Venus". Titians works were also so varied that it is difficult to compare. He did, afterall, paint religious works as well as his poesia series.
Overall, I think that the greatest work should not be included as it is too subjective.
Wasn't a color of red also named after Titian? At least that's what I've read.
Sorry, but I had to tag this after seeing such comments as:
"...the most beautiful example of which is the wonderful Christ of The Tribute Money, at Dresden, a face whose delicacy, spirituality, and moral charm have never been surpassed by any other School."
and this:
"Titian is a painter who by wondrous magic of genius and of art satisfies the eye, and through the eye the feelings, sometimes the mind."
I'll try to help, but I think this needs a complete copyedit to help with biased statements such as these. Rampart 13:18, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
Also, that critique section is insane. Besides the fact that it's a copyvio of this page [2], it's without a credited author. I don't see how we can cite uncredited criticism. And even if it came from an expert, fair use still doesn't cover quotations that extensive. -- djrobgordon 04:31, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
Could I please say that most decent art writings are not writting in 'flowery' style. Far from it. Academics consider this worthless padding as it serves no real function except to sound pretencious.
I would also like to say that texts should not really be used from articles such as the Catholic encyclopedia. These are biased text and therefore are not suitable for an unbiased web encyclopedia. These sources are suitable for preliminary research, but really must not be quoted. Afterall, this page is about Titian not religion.
This whole article seems to be badly translated from, probably, Spanish. Needs to be rewritten in literate English. Factually innacurate. I have corrected the biggest howler, changing 'Consumption of Madonna' to 'Assumption of the Virgin' as it is generally known in English language art history texts. It is also, as any good guide book will reveal, still in situ, not in the Accademia. Lavinfont. June 2006
The art theorist Giovanni Lomazzo in 1590 declared Titian "the sun amidst small stars not only among the Italians but all the painters of the world" [quoted in the Britannica-2004]. -- Ghirla -трёп- 20:59, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
I feel this link is sub-par at best. It is very hard to read and poorly put together. I am going to see if I can find another source for the information which cites it so it can be removed. If anyone else wants to change it, please feel free. -- Saint savin 20:45, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
The painting of the huntress (fifth image down, I think?) is missing a title in the caption. I don't know enough about Titian to complete this by myself, but I thought I would point it out. Does someone else know what it is? Still 21:47, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
this page is copied almost exactly from http://experts.about.com/e/t/ti/titian.htm
I am in complete agreement with others who have drawn attention to the preposterously florid language in this article. Where on earth did the original text come from? The whole thing reads like a parody of artistic criticism. It badly needs paring down to just the salient facts about the artist's life and works. It must be possible to comment on the relevant changes in his style, technique etc. in an objective and rational manner. Godingo 22:29, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
So was Francesco his younger or older brother? This Titian article claims both. "Francesco Vecellio, his younger brother, later became a painter of some note in Venice" and "Francesco Vecellio, his elder brother, was introduced to painting by Titian". The Wikipedia article about Francesco states that he was Titian's elder. The Grove Dictionary of Art states that Francesco was Titian's older brother and was already trained as a painter in Venice when Titian joined him there. From what I know I am inclined to think Francesco was the older brother, even though he came under the influence of Titian at a later point, but as I haven't studied this matter thoroughly I hesitate to make changes. In any case both of the quoted sentences are factually incorrect as far as I'm aware. 88.114.240.85 18:04, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
The caption of the picture includes the words "the classiest painter north of Rome." Possibly vandalism, but I cannot find an earlier version of the page with text that seems more appropriate. 66.99.254.5
I'd noticed that before, also. Replaced 'classiest' with 'preeminent'. JNW 16:46, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
The caption under the "Assunta" claims this painting is a fresco, but it is not. It's an oil painting, an altarpiece over the high altar in the Church of the Frari in Venice Maestrodan ( talk) 01:38, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Madonna title. I have added the better known name of the painting that the contributor refers to as the "Pesaro Madonna", i.e. Madonna di Ca' Pesaro. rturus ( talk) 05:18, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
The article now states that Titian is a representative of High Renaissance art. But isn't this wrong both chronologically and stylistically? Didn't the High Renaissance peak around 1500-1520, nearly a century before Titian began to be important? And isn't his own style--exuberant, wild gestures, with rough, impressionistic brush strokes--quite at odds with the Renaissance? Interlingua 14:07, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
Though Tiziano Vecellio lived a remarkably long life and died in the middle of the Mannerist age, I've never read about him as a Mannerist in any art history book that I've browsed: he's always grouped with the great Renaissance painters. Don't forget he was born and died--more or less--in the same years of Michelangelo.-- 93.40.132.183 ( talk) 16:56, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
We have conflicting information on his year of death, with the infobox saying 1572 and the article's leader saying 1576, so which is right? TheRetroGuy ( talk) 12:38, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Ref added, and intro changed to show anywhere between 1473 and 1490, though that c. 1488 is favoured. Nice to see that the extent of the BBC's research is wikipedia... 77.96.103.219 ( talk) 13:25, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Conservatives had just admitted changing the date. Rebel Redcoat ( talk) 16:06, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Is the political spat over his age really of any interest to someone reading about the artist? I'm inclined to just delete that last paragraph as being irrelevant to the subject, but I don't want to start an edit war. — PhilHibbs | talk 13:40, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
I read that he was born in approximately 1488, which would be more credible, considering the year of his death. Anglius 23:26, 1 June 2005 (UTC)
Perhaps I'm over-zealous, but I've protected the page temporarily. -- Dweller ( talk) 16:38, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
I think semi-protection is good enough. I also think that by fully protecting the article, we may be barring those with more references to add. Totally understand if full protection is implemented. 77.96.103.219 ( talk) 16:49, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
{{ editprotected}} In the News section : "There is current debate about when he died, due to a debate between British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, who believed Titian died at 90 and David Cameron who believes he died at 86 during Prime Minister's Question Time on Wednesday 11 February 2008.[15]" should be changed to " ... on Wednesday 11 February 2009.[15]"
- I'd suggest a more radical change, David Cameron obviously does not believe that Titian died during Prime Minister's Question Time, which is what that sentence appears to mean. River sider ( talk) 16:56, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
This made me laugh a lot. As mentioned, the current text suggests that Titian died during PMQ. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.6.250.44 ( talk) 17:05, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
I have reduced protection to semi-protection as there was little vandalism from registered users. Also news traffic tends to drop off very quickly so I have set the expiry to 1 day. Feel free to change up if things become unmanageable. ed g2s • talk 16:57, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Titiangate - Can I start my own wiki page? And we'll see if we can get that in the news..? Eddie —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
92.238.57.194 (
talk)
18:13, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Is a mention of Winston Smith relevant? Jackiespeel ( talk) 14:50, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
About two hours ago, "and then directed the BBC to the article for them to use as verification" was inserted into the article: [6]. The text was placed inside a body of text that was already cited. Looking at the source cited, I cannot see that the source verifies the new text installed. I believe the text should be removed as a result, which is something I can't do since I am not autoconfirmed. Thank you very much in advance if my request is responded to. Allventon ( talk) 02:42, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
The story that the Conservative Party HQ directed the BBC to Wikipedia was definitely broadcast on the PM program (17:00-18:00, reference at circa 17:51 according to BBC iPlayer). Unfortunately I can't find any non-ephemeral source. -- Soronlin ( talk) 09:24, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
The Louvre website gives Titian's birth as 1488/1490, the National Gallery's website as c.1487. Why are these excluded whereas the Met. Museum and Getty Inst. are deemed fit for inclusion?(both c.1488). The National Gallery ref was present yesterday, but has since been deleted. Catiline63 ( talk) 09:52, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
Well, a reference from a reputable source is a reference from a reputable source, regardless of its obscurity. Also, as said, the Louvre website repeatedly gives 88/90 - i.e. on just about any page where Titian is mentioned. Repeated citations such as that of the Louvre should be included, at least. Incidentally, art historian/dealer Philip Mould on today's "Daily Politics" (BBC2, 1200-30) gave as a birth date "anywhere between '86 and '91". Yesterday's "Channel 4 News" (1900-50), citing a unnamed source from the National Gallery, gave "about 1490". Such sources, albeit mediated through news sources, are valid. All are corroborative of the sources already given, but I feel the Louvre especially (and possibly NG) should be cited if only to illustrate the scope of the modern consensus. Catiline63 ( talk) 12:43, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
The National Gallery of Art in Washington, DC. says around 1490 I think the article currently covers this ambiguity fairly well.... Modernist ( talk) 14:28, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
Actually, I forgot to look at the new NG catalogue ( Penny, Nicholas, National Gallery Catalogues (new series): The Sixteenth Century Italian Paintings, Volume II, Venice 1540-1600, 2008), which says "probably in 1490 or a little earlier" without a discussion. Since we now have the Louvre, NG, NGA & Hope going for this sort of formula, i think we should go to "probably c. 1488/90" in the article. Any objections? Johnbod ( talk) 13:12, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
This article should be fully reverted to 6th February 2009 and protected, before the recent spate of mindless vandalism made it unreadable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.193.61.125 ( talk) 12:47, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
This article seems to be becoming more and more complicated. Surely we can just decide on one date, and not present a whole lot of options. Anyway, the article must be consistent, and what is in the intro must also be in the infobox. Thank goodness his date of death is known - or is someone going to find some obscure reference disputing this too. I hope not. Wallie ( talk) 14:07, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
Does the recent argument about Titian's age really deserve its own mention on the article, especially including the bit about wikipedia itself? I dont mind if everyone else supports its mention, but i think it should have some agreement before putting something thats only been "big" news for 24 hours and only for people in the UK on the main article. Does William Shakespeares article get edited every time someone misquotes one of his famous lines when trying to appear smart? i doubt it. BritishWatcher ( talk) 01:26, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
It would be interesting to have information that would clarify the vandalism and restoration of Titian paintings that is described by the 1849 book "Original Treatises, Dating from the XIIth to the XVIIIth Centuries on the Arts of Painting, Volume II", by Mary Philadelphia Merrifield (available online). The book translates part of the work "On The Restoration Of The Royal Paintings Under The Venetian Government" by Pietro Edwards. On p862-863, Edwards mentions a robbery of part of a Titian painting. He says a square of canvas abut 5 by 5 inches that contained the head in the painting called (by Edwards) "Faith" was cut out and stolen in 1777. There is some unclear language about the painting being restored. I interpret it to mean that someone painted a new head and put it in the picture. It also says that the same restorer( who may have been Edwards himself) "filled up the empty space remaining in the Adoration of Bonifazio, by inserting the head of one of the Magi", which may have been stolen by the same robber.
I can't find any modern information about these events. Does the painting "Faith" still exist? Does it still have the restored head?
Tashiro (
talk)
22:45, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
Someone on the Bad Astronomy And Universe Today web forum pointed out that "The Faith" may refer to the painting "Doge Grimani adoring Faith", mentioned in the article. It should be a reasonably objective question whether this painting has a restored head on the Faith or not. Unfortunately, searching on the name of the painting on the web produces page after page of advertisements for companies selling reproductions of paintings. I don't know what organization now has custody of this painting.
Tashiro ( talk) 02:39, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
This article names Eleanora of Gonzaga, duchess of Urbino, as subject of the portrait La Bella (as named by the Catholic Encyclopedia). But the identity of the sitter is not conclusively known. Her features do not correspond to other portraits of Eleanora, but closely resemble those of the Venus of Urbino, painted in Urbino the following year.
Can anybody confirm if Titian is the artist responsible for the portrait of Aodh Ó Néill (1550-1616), the man who is arguably the most significant figure in Ireland's history in the past 500 years, which was in the Vatican until a couple of centuries ago when it was brought back to Ireland and is now in a private collection here? This is the portrait in question. 86.40.52.44 ( talk) 20:38, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
The artist in question is clearly influenced by Titian - see [9] - but as the user above pointed out, the dates don't work at all. Would be interesting if anyone knew more. Elphit ( talk) 10:43, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Titian was born in the year of 1477, but the exact date is unknown. He was born into a family of four and his father was a distinguished councilman. He moved to Venice when he was ten years old and studied art with a mosaicist by the name of Sebastian Zuccato. Five years later, he worked in Giovanni Bellini's studio, who was one of the most popular artists of the time. In the studio, he meant many other artists around his age, whos names where Giovanni Palma da Serinalta, Lorenzo Lotto, Sebastiano Luciani, and Giorgio da Castelfranco. Titian's early work included the pieces: "Ecce Homo", "A Child Testifying to Its Mother's Innocence", and "The Saint Healing the Young Man with a Broken Limb", which he created while in a partnership with Giorgione. There works while partners were said to be indistinguishable, as they had extremely similar styles of painting at that time. Later in life, after Giorgione died, Titians work became more dramatic, with pieces like "The Death of St. Peter of Verona", and "Martyrdom of St. Peter". During Titian's last 20 years, he dedicated his time to painting portraits, and as the eternal perfectionist, he only finished a few great works. Some paintings he would continue working on for ten years, constantly adding new details. Titian kept painting until he died from the black plauge, which was very common ant that time. When Titian died, he was nearly one hundred years old. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drydenbrown ( talk • contribs) 20:33, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
Surely Titian was Venetian and not Italian?
It was the Republic of Venice, and not Italy, until 1796. And had a different flag, currency, language, government and military until then.
Some consistency would be good -- I note Colombus[ [10]] is listed as Genoese and not Italian, though likewise born in what is now part of Italy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tonypercy ( talk • contribs) 00:50, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
My favourite Titian painting is not here! Where's Bacchus and Ariadne, one of Titian's greatest works? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.211.126.250 ( talk) 15:21, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
I will try now to add some works that are famous and some that are less known, just to be informative. Also try to incorporate the long captions in text, and put the picture beside, thus making place for more pictures in the body of the article. Hafspajen ( talk) 10:41, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
Not all this needs to be added but indeed many of his great works are not shown, and the gallery is compared to other artists is quite poor.
Hafspajen (
talk)
22:41, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
Images in the gallery collectively do have encyclopedic value and add to the reader's understanding of the subject. Galleries are not discuraged. Please see also this discussion here, Talk:Charles Marion Russell.
Images are typically interspersed individually throughout an article near the relevant text (see WP:MOSIMAGES). However, the use of a gallery section may be appropriate in some Wikipedia articles if a collection of images can illustrate aspects of a subject that cannot be easily or adequately described by text or individual images. The images in the gallery collectively must have encyclopedic value and add to the reader's understanding of the subject.
Hafspajen ( talk) 06:59, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Before making significant changes to referenced sourced historical data; please reference those changes with reliable sources... Modernist ( talk) 23:02, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
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In the Early Years section there is mention of a 'broker's patent, termed La Sanseria or Senseria (a privilege much coveted by rising or risen artists)'. It seems to be important for artists of the time, including Titian, but there doesn't seem any explanation that I can find of what a broker's patent actually is. Does anyone know? Thankyou. Mov326 ( talk) 05:23, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
I see it is mentioned in an old section above, #Colors, and now there is a separate article on the topic, but as far as I can see there is no mention of this in this article, and I believe there should be some — both of the term and of the claim that he supposedly liked to paint redheads. It would be nice if one finds a way to squeeze it somewhere in :) -- Base ( talk) 10:07, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
Hello, anybody hanging around who might take a look at the girl on the left, whom she might be? Thank you so much for your time. Lotje ( talk) 16:35, 6 May 2023 (UTC)