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There is no problem with having a "Criticism" section in this article. However, the material added to this section was clearly added by someone affiliating either directly or indirectly with Daniel Pipes &/or CAMERA & thus has a built-in conflict. First, the text is poorly written. Second, the actual content is totally inaccurate and mischaracterizes what Tikun Olam wrote about the issues under discussion. Third, the creator of this section didn't use proper Wikipedia formatting.
I will update and correct the material in this section so that accurately characterizes the claims under consideration. I expect the author of the Criticism section to only add information that is fair and accurate, which he or she has not done so far. Richard Silverstein ( talk) 01:09, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
You know Mr. Silverstein, you do not own this Wikipedia entry, right? This is meant to be an encyclopedic source of information that reflects all relevant information about your blog. As an interested party it is bad form for you to edit this entry extensively otherwise the entry will be partisan and biased. I already see evidence of such bias given that there is no mention of Neuwirth v. Silverstein. If time allows I will cover this and other issues that are absent and thus help craft an entry that is more reflective of your blog. Wrongtired18 ( talk) 06:57, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
This article is one sided, and biased. It quotes an Israeli TV host (Guy Lehrer) of a 10 minutes show running at 24:00 like he is a real journalist or something like this. It's says that Rotter.net (a site that no one heard of) is "Israel most popular news site". He says that Israel law system gives no true justice, etc.
I thought Wikipedia should be neutral, but this page is neutral like Mr Silverstein's blog, which discusses "Essays on politics, culture and ideas about Israeli-Arab peace and world music". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.80.223.100 ( talk) 16:02, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
After carefully reading the article and reviewing the sources it seems most of the content comes from Silverstein's blog. For example this cite doesn't even mention Tikun Olam. It refers to Silverstein, and only in a passive manner. I also trimmed this section quite a bit. All info comes straight from the blog. Wikipedia shouldn't be treated as a portal for Tikun Olam. Third party RSs needed to support content. I don't want to alarm anyone about these changes because they are clearly major, but necessary. Wikifan Be nice 10:39, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
"Another case, whose details have not been made clear to this day, is that of “Prisoner X” – a detainee with no name or identification. An item about his was published on the Ynet [news portal] website on June 13th, but it was removed less than a day later, due to a gag order about the subject. Silverstein wrote a post about it in which he reported the gag order and also discussed the question of the man’s identity, and the background for his arrest." (originally appeared in Hebrew in Issue 1557, 6 August 2010 p. 42) רדיומן ( talk) 02:17, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
The claim that Richard Silverstein "is known to have good sources in Israel's military community" is attributed to journalist Richard Spencer. Not only is the comment merely Spencer's personal opinion, he follows it in the next paragraph with this disclaimer, "Although such reports are unverifiable". Silverstein's scoops seem to be inaccurate much of the time. Here is a link to a (lengthy) follow-up to a Silverstein story.
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2011/11/on-silversteins-implausible-drone-explosion-story.html
Still, there are people who trust the accuracy of his information. I suggest the sentence be changed to "is thought to have sources in Israel's military community" or "believed to have sources ...". It would be even more accurate to add "although their reliability has been questioned", and use the moonofalabama.org page as the footnote. Labellesanslebete ( talk) 19:04, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
Richard Silverstein, who writes a blog on Israeli-Arab relations, told the Times he received about 200 pages from Leibowitz. He says they included transcripts of telephone calls and conversations from the Israeli Embassy, including one in which Israeli officials express concerns that they are being monitored. Wikifan Be nice 05:11, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
According to primary source, such a source is "term used in a number of disciplines to describe source material that is closest to the person, information, period, or idea being studied." This is reflective of the Israellycool blog, which has posted its sources and its own investigation into how Richard Silverstein vets his own sources and has his own personal vendettas. Reversion of a post on this trap and vindictive exposure by Silverstein seems to be a violation of WP:NPOV. Thus, I am demanding an escalation to mediation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DevilInPgh ( talk • contribs) 07:43, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
![]() |
The blogs are considered unreliable sources until the owner of the blog is a widely recognized expert in the field. That effectively means that unless the blog or its author are described as reliable sources in a devoted Wikipedia article and the identity of the blog author is undisputable, one should refrain from citing. I would also note that relying on blogs in the article on blog should be the last resort. As the matter of this discussion doesn't seem critical for the article, I would recommend leaving it out unless some undisputably reliable source covers its connection to this blog.— Dmitrij D. Czarkoff ( talk) 09:10, 1 January 2012 (UTC) |
The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth—whether readers can check that material in Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether editors think it is true.
— WP:V
The evidence here is to compare some of Silverstein's comments to others and note the discrepancies. He claims another blogger (IsraellyCool.com) revealed Silverstein's personal information; but is unable to prove it. "...he’d published my home address, phone number and my wife’s employer name and work phone at his blog."
http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2011/12/28/aussie-dave-exposed/
Silverstein has "outed" the real life identity of his fellow blogger (IsraellyCool) with different names twice within as many days. In his second attempt, linked below, he gives what he thinks is this man's real name, neighborhood and a family photograph showing two young children. This seems to be a new low in contemptible online journalistic ethics, and is as indecent as what Silverstein complained he had suffered.
http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2011/12/30/aussie-dave-anonymous-no-longer/ Labellesanslebete ( talk) 19:25, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
Considering the editors of this page do not consider Israellycool or Jewlicious to be reliable sources, I have taken the liberty of removing all information linked exclusively back to Tikun Olam (blog) and the Alternative Information Center, as first and foremost they are not reliable sources, and second, these sources have serious WP:NPOV issues. Thirdly, none of the events mentioned in those links have been confirmed by the mainstream media or any other reliable source. DevilInPgh ( talk) 18:15, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
I've removed this material from the article for now for discussion and consensus before it is returned.
My understanding is that in January 2011, Channel 10 Israel news journalist Nitay Elboym said something like some have described the blog as the 'Wikileaks of Israel'. The Seattle Times reported this as An Israeli TV commentator dubbed him "the WikiLeaks of Israel." [3] Here is how Silverstein reported it. [4] So, it's not Silverstein's self-entitled role as the Israeli Julian Assange and his blog as the Wikileaks of Israel. That is the first problem. The second problem is that the current content doesn't comply with WP:NONENG which is part of WP:V, a mandatory policy. Sean.hoyland - talk 07:02, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
References
I noticed a section describing the "Iran attack plan" affair was added and then removed.
In this affair Silverstein published a document he claimed was leaked to him by his high level Israeli source and which later turned out to be a near-verbatim copy of a fan-fiction post in an Israeli discussion board. This casts a serious shadow on Silverstein's reliability, as that is the same source he claims to provide him with many of his stories. The section was deleted because "a blog is not a source" (?) - I added a link to an image comparing the two texts. I also wanted to add a link to this: hurryupharry.org/2012/08/15/everything-silverstein-and-the-bbc-think-is-gold-is-st/ - but was unable, as Harry's Place seems to be in the blacklist for some reason...
In general it seems this entry lists Silverstein's successes and ignores stories that were proved false or dismissed outright - surely an enviable position for every blogger/journalist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.179.200.219 ( talk) 12:58, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
The content on the page on this alleged scandal fails to satisfy WP:RS, since it is based on Silverstein's self-published blog ( WP:SPS). And given the source's weakness, it is also clearly a violation of WP:BLP. Please remove. Plot Spoiler ( talk) 02:40, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
The page focuses on a number of instances in which Silverstein made an assertion that later proved accurate. But since his great claim to notability is that he reveals secret intelligence information, it would make readers better able to understand his activities and role in covering Israel if the page gave some attention to his sourcing and to the instances where he makes a claim to be unearthing clandestine information that later proves untrue. FinchleyRd ( talk) 13:57, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
Malik Shabazz: This truly happened. Look at Silverstein's racist tweet. It's a fact. The Times of Israel is a reliable newspaper. This seems to be a case of I don't like it.-- Veritnight ( talk) 22:43, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
Leftist, rightist - this is the parochial language of Israeli politics. Wikipedia is not Israeli so it is probably best to avoid such terms. Also, "leftist blogger" (added here) is merely a label used in passing by Rabbi David Ellenson from the Hebrew Union College-Jewish Institute of Religion ( http://huc.edu/directory/david-ellenson) and Hannah Ellenson in the source cited, Muslims and Jews in America: Commonalities, Contentions, and Complexities. This is not something that qualifies as a useful and informative label that can be applied in the unattributed neutral narrative voice of the encyclopedia. Sean.hoyland - talk 06:32, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
<- Epsom Salts, I don't find your arguments persuasive. I find them weak, a risk to the integrity of article and confrontational in a petulant wiki-lawyering way. Bear in mind that you are dealing with experienced Wikipedia editors rather than pliant victims of ethno-nationalist socialization, so the arguments need to be persuasive. Also, making a baseless threat against an experienced editor is not a viable method to achieve collaboration and consensus. Lastly, "There's always a first time. What your expansion for this edit?" was not the appropriate response above. The appropriate response would be "I will desist until consensus in my favor emerges" because that is what you are going to do. Sean.hoyland - talk 19:06, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
These two sentences seem to be covering the same territory, so should probably be merged:
He spent an undergraduate and graduate year in Israel, studying Hebrew literature at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.
and:
Silverstein lived in Israel for two years, studying at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.
Misha Wolf ( talk) 16:49, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
Section consist of one-sided statements, espousing biased views mostly form the pro-Israel side of the argument and point of view.-- ౪ Santa ౪ 99° 00:59, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() | The following Wikipedia contributor has declared a personal or professional connection to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
conflict of interest,
autobiography, and
neutral point of view.
|
![]() | Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.
|
There is no problem with having a "Criticism" section in this article. However, the material added to this section was clearly added by someone affiliating either directly or indirectly with Daniel Pipes &/or CAMERA & thus has a built-in conflict. First, the text is poorly written. Second, the actual content is totally inaccurate and mischaracterizes what Tikun Olam wrote about the issues under discussion. Third, the creator of this section didn't use proper Wikipedia formatting.
I will update and correct the material in this section so that accurately characterizes the claims under consideration. I expect the author of the Criticism section to only add information that is fair and accurate, which he or she has not done so far. Richard Silverstein ( talk) 01:09, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
You know Mr. Silverstein, you do not own this Wikipedia entry, right? This is meant to be an encyclopedic source of information that reflects all relevant information about your blog. As an interested party it is bad form for you to edit this entry extensively otherwise the entry will be partisan and biased. I already see evidence of such bias given that there is no mention of Neuwirth v. Silverstein. If time allows I will cover this and other issues that are absent and thus help craft an entry that is more reflective of your blog. Wrongtired18 ( talk) 06:57, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
This article is one sided, and biased. It quotes an Israeli TV host (Guy Lehrer) of a 10 minutes show running at 24:00 like he is a real journalist or something like this. It's says that Rotter.net (a site that no one heard of) is "Israel most popular news site". He says that Israel law system gives no true justice, etc.
I thought Wikipedia should be neutral, but this page is neutral like Mr Silverstein's blog, which discusses "Essays on politics, culture and ideas about Israeli-Arab peace and world music". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.80.223.100 ( talk) 16:02, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
After carefully reading the article and reviewing the sources it seems most of the content comes from Silverstein's blog. For example this cite doesn't even mention Tikun Olam. It refers to Silverstein, and only in a passive manner. I also trimmed this section quite a bit. All info comes straight from the blog. Wikipedia shouldn't be treated as a portal for Tikun Olam. Third party RSs needed to support content. I don't want to alarm anyone about these changes because they are clearly major, but necessary. Wikifan Be nice 10:39, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
"Another case, whose details have not been made clear to this day, is that of “Prisoner X” – a detainee with no name or identification. An item about his was published on the Ynet [news portal] website on June 13th, but it was removed less than a day later, due to a gag order about the subject. Silverstein wrote a post about it in which he reported the gag order and also discussed the question of the man’s identity, and the background for his arrest." (originally appeared in Hebrew in Issue 1557, 6 August 2010 p. 42) רדיומן ( talk) 02:17, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
The claim that Richard Silverstein "is known to have good sources in Israel's military community" is attributed to journalist Richard Spencer. Not only is the comment merely Spencer's personal opinion, he follows it in the next paragraph with this disclaimer, "Although such reports are unverifiable". Silverstein's scoops seem to be inaccurate much of the time. Here is a link to a (lengthy) follow-up to a Silverstein story.
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2011/11/on-silversteins-implausible-drone-explosion-story.html
Still, there are people who trust the accuracy of his information. I suggest the sentence be changed to "is thought to have sources in Israel's military community" or "believed to have sources ...". It would be even more accurate to add "although their reliability has been questioned", and use the moonofalabama.org page as the footnote. Labellesanslebete ( talk) 19:04, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
Richard Silverstein, who writes a blog on Israeli-Arab relations, told the Times he received about 200 pages from Leibowitz. He says they included transcripts of telephone calls and conversations from the Israeli Embassy, including one in which Israeli officials express concerns that they are being monitored. Wikifan Be nice 05:11, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
According to primary source, such a source is "term used in a number of disciplines to describe source material that is closest to the person, information, period, or idea being studied." This is reflective of the Israellycool blog, which has posted its sources and its own investigation into how Richard Silverstein vets his own sources and has his own personal vendettas. Reversion of a post on this trap and vindictive exposure by Silverstein seems to be a violation of WP:NPOV. Thus, I am demanding an escalation to mediation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DevilInPgh ( talk • contribs) 07:43, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
![]() |
The blogs are considered unreliable sources until the owner of the blog is a widely recognized expert in the field. That effectively means that unless the blog or its author are described as reliable sources in a devoted Wikipedia article and the identity of the blog author is undisputable, one should refrain from citing. I would also note that relying on blogs in the article on blog should be the last resort. As the matter of this discussion doesn't seem critical for the article, I would recommend leaving it out unless some undisputably reliable source covers its connection to this blog.— Dmitrij D. Czarkoff ( talk) 09:10, 1 January 2012 (UTC) |
The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth—whether readers can check that material in Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether editors think it is true.
— WP:V
The evidence here is to compare some of Silverstein's comments to others and note the discrepancies. He claims another blogger (IsraellyCool.com) revealed Silverstein's personal information; but is unable to prove it. "...he’d published my home address, phone number and my wife’s employer name and work phone at his blog."
http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2011/12/28/aussie-dave-exposed/
Silverstein has "outed" the real life identity of his fellow blogger (IsraellyCool) with different names twice within as many days. In his second attempt, linked below, he gives what he thinks is this man's real name, neighborhood and a family photograph showing two young children. This seems to be a new low in contemptible online journalistic ethics, and is as indecent as what Silverstein complained he had suffered.
http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2011/12/30/aussie-dave-anonymous-no-longer/ Labellesanslebete ( talk) 19:25, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
Considering the editors of this page do not consider Israellycool or Jewlicious to be reliable sources, I have taken the liberty of removing all information linked exclusively back to Tikun Olam (blog) and the Alternative Information Center, as first and foremost they are not reliable sources, and second, these sources have serious WP:NPOV issues. Thirdly, none of the events mentioned in those links have been confirmed by the mainstream media or any other reliable source. DevilInPgh ( talk) 18:15, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
I've removed this material from the article for now for discussion and consensus before it is returned.
My understanding is that in January 2011, Channel 10 Israel news journalist Nitay Elboym said something like some have described the blog as the 'Wikileaks of Israel'. The Seattle Times reported this as An Israeli TV commentator dubbed him "the WikiLeaks of Israel." [3] Here is how Silverstein reported it. [4] So, it's not Silverstein's self-entitled role as the Israeli Julian Assange and his blog as the Wikileaks of Israel. That is the first problem. The second problem is that the current content doesn't comply with WP:NONENG which is part of WP:V, a mandatory policy. Sean.hoyland - talk 07:02, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
References
I noticed a section describing the "Iran attack plan" affair was added and then removed.
In this affair Silverstein published a document he claimed was leaked to him by his high level Israeli source and which later turned out to be a near-verbatim copy of a fan-fiction post in an Israeli discussion board. This casts a serious shadow on Silverstein's reliability, as that is the same source he claims to provide him with many of his stories. The section was deleted because "a blog is not a source" (?) - I added a link to an image comparing the two texts. I also wanted to add a link to this: hurryupharry.org/2012/08/15/everything-silverstein-and-the-bbc-think-is-gold-is-st/ - but was unable, as Harry's Place seems to be in the blacklist for some reason...
In general it seems this entry lists Silverstein's successes and ignores stories that were proved false or dismissed outright - surely an enviable position for every blogger/journalist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.179.200.219 ( talk) 12:58, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
The content on the page on this alleged scandal fails to satisfy WP:RS, since it is based on Silverstein's self-published blog ( WP:SPS). And given the source's weakness, it is also clearly a violation of WP:BLP. Please remove. Plot Spoiler ( talk) 02:40, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
The page focuses on a number of instances in which Silverstein made an assertion that later proved accurate. But since his great claim to notability is that he reveals secret intelligence information, it would make readers better able to understand his activities and role in covering Israel if the page gave some attention to his sourcing and to the instances where he makes a claim to be unearthing clandestine information that later proves untrue. FinchleyRd ( talk) 13:57, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
Malik Shabazz: This truly happened. Look at Silverstein's racist tweet. It's a fact. The Times of Israel is a reliable newspaper. This seems to be a case of I don't like it.-- Veritnight ( talk) 22:43, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
Leftist, rightist - this is the parochial language of Israeli politics. Wikipedia is not Israeli so it is probably best to avoid such terms. Also, "leftist blogger" (added here) is merely a label used in passing by Rabbi David Ellenson from the Hebrew Union College-Jewish Institute of Religion ( http://huc.edu/directory/david-ellenson) and Hannah Ellenson in the source cited, Muslims and Jews in America: Commonalities, Contentions, and Complexities. This is not something that qualifies as a useful and informative label that can be applied in the unattributed neutral narrative voice of the encyclopedia. Sean.hoyland - talk 06:32, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
<- Epsom Salts, I don't find your arguments persuasive. I find them weak, a risk to the integrity of article and confrontational in a petulant wiki-lawyering way. Bear in mind that you are dealing with experienced Wikipedia editors rather than pliant victims of ethno-nationalist socialization, so the arguments need to be persuasive. Also, making a baseless threat against an experienced editor is not a viable method to achieve collaboration and consensus. Lastly, "There's always a first time. What your expansion for this edit?" was not the appropriate response above. The appropriate response would be "I will desist until consensus in my favor emerges" because that is what you are going to do. Sean.hoyland - talk 19:06, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
These two sentences seem to be covering the same territory, so should probably be merged:
He spent an undergraduate and graduate year in Israel, studying Hebrew literature at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.
and:
Silverstein lived in Israel for two years, studying at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.
Misha Wolf ( talk) 16:49, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
Section consist of one-sided statements, espousing biased views mostly form the pro-Israel side of the argument and point of view.-- ౪ Santa ౪ 99° 00:59, 14 September 2021 (UTC)