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The result of the move request was: Move. We have consensus that the prime minister is WP:PRIMARYTOPIC in a WP:TWODABS situation. Cúchullain t/ c 16:10, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
Tihomir Orešković (politician) →
Tihomir Orešković – Disambiguation is unnecessary.
Tihomir Orešković currently redirects here, so it is pointless to have "(politician)" appended to the article title. In addition, this article is clearly the primary topic: this article
gets about 300 views per day, whereas the war criminal's article
only gets about 4 views per day.
Chessrat (
talk,
contributions) 00:48, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
Tuvixer, can you explain how the current hatnote does not violate WP:NAMB? GregorB ( talk) 12:36, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
Hello everybody, myself and User:Mewulwe are having difficulties reaching an agreement regarding the ordinal numbering of PM Tihomir Orešković. The discussion we had is located here. While I agree on his argument that ordinal numbering isn't in a established use in Croatia it still isn't a valid reason for it to be removed from Wikipedia since Wikipedia's idea is to enhance ones knowledge and not to restrain it. Furthermore, User:Mewulwe states that ordinal numbering should be removed from most articles on Wikipedia citing the numbering unpredictable in the future which is negligible since a probability of this occurring is extremely small. I found an explicit reference on the official web page of the Government of Croatia (check the last sentence with Google translate) which gives me the right to add this information. He is basically indirectly denying an official governmental document. Regards, Luke CroGamer 1 ( talk) 06:51, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Short summary: User:Mewulwe states that ordinal numbering should be removed from some Wikipedia articles citing lack of established use in those states, that the numbering is untrustful in the future and that the numbering by itself is a subjective fact. I provided a link to an official government web page where the ordinal numbers are located (page in Croatian, disputed sentence is the last sentence on the mentioned page), explained that Wikipedia's idea is to expand knowledge (as an answer to his argument on lack of established use) and expressed disagreement that this information is subjective since I found a legitimate reference straight from the disputed government. CroGamer 1 ( talk) 22:14, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
3O Response: I've gone through a few leaders each for at least a dozen countries (see, for example, India, Angola, Egypt, Malta etc.) at Category:Lists of prime ministers and the practice of numbering seems very widespread, including with leaders who have served non-consecutive terms (they are counted once, with the number taken from their first term). This is also true for Croatia – former leaders seem also to use the numbering system espoused by the government website (and whoever made the list at Prime_Minister_of_Croatia#Prime_Ministers_of_the_Republic_of_Croatia_(1990–present)), with pre-1990 leaders instead being listed as "President(s) of the Executive Council of the Socialist Republic of Croatia". (A notable exception I found was Germany, likely because of reunification.) The benefit of numbering is probably when people who are not familiar with a country's history want to establish or keep track of a timeline. In any case, I'd leave the number in. The custom seems so entrenched that if you want to change things completely it would be best to take it up at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style. If it's just Croatia you think should change, then I'd look for evidence that an alternative numbering is used often enough for things to be potentially confusing. ─ ReconditeRodent « talk · contribs » 20:20, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
Information for other editors: based on current policy, the WP:DRN case has lead to the decision that there should be no ordinal numbering applied, unless there is consensus about a wiki-wide policy change on this issue. MrClog ( talk) 15:08, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
The result of the move request was: Move. We have consensus that the prime minister is WP:PRIMARYTOPIC in a WP:TWODABS situation. Cúchullain t/ c 16:10, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
Tihomir Orešković (politician) →
Tihomir Orešković – Disambiguation is unnecessary.
Tihomir Orešković currently redirects here, so it is pointless to have "(politician)" appended to the article title. In addition, this article is clearly the primary topic: this article
gets about 300 views per day, whereas the war criminal's article
only gets about 4 views per day.
Chessrat (
talk,
contributions) 00:48, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
Tuvixer, can you explain how the current hatnote does not violate WP:NAMB? GregorB ( talk) 12:36, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
Hello everybody, myself and User:Mewulwe are having difficulties reaching an agreement regarding the ordinal numbering of PM Tihomir Orešković. The discussion we had is located here. While I agree on his argument that ordinal numbering isn't in a established use in Croatia it still isn't a valid reason for it to be removed from Wikipedia since Wikipedia's idea is to enhance ones knowledge and not to restrain it. Furthermore, User:Mewulwe states that ordinal numbering should be removed from most articles on Wikipedia citing the numbering unpredictable in the future which is negligible since a probability of this occurring is extremely small. I found an explicit reference on the official web page of the Government of Croatia (check the last sentence with Google translate) which gives me the right to add this information. He is basically indirectly denying an official governmental document. Regards, Luke CroGamer 1 ( talk) 06:51, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Short summary: User:Mewulwe states that ordinal numbering should be removed from some Wikipedia articles citing lack of established use in those states, that the numbering is untrustful in the future and that the numbering by itself is a subjective fact. I provided a link to an official government web page where the ordinal numbers are located (page in Croatian, disputed sentence is the last sentence on the mentioned page), explained that Wikipedia's idea is to expand knowledge (as an answer to his argument on lack of established use) and expressed disagreement that this information is subjective since I found a legitimate reference straight from the disputed government. CroGamer 1 ( talk) 22:14, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
3O Response: I've gone through a few leaders each for at least a dozen countries (see, for example, India, Angola, Egypt, Malta etc.) at Category:Lists of prime ministers and the practice of numbering seems very widespread, including with leaders who have served non-consecutive terms (they are counted once, with the number taken from their first term). This is also true for Croatia – former leaders seem also to use the numbering system espoused by the government website (and whoever made the list at Prime_Minister_of_Croatia#Prime_Ministers_of_the_Republic_of_Croatia_(1990–present)), with pre-1990 leaders instead being listed as "President(s) of the Executive Council of the Socialist Republic of Croatia". (A notable exception I found was Germany, likely because of reunification.) The benefit of numbering is probably when people who are not familiar with a country's history want to establish or keep track of a timeline. In any case, I'd leave the number in. The custom seems so entrenched that if you want to change things completely it would be best to take it up at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style. If it's just Croatia you think should change, then I'd look for evidence that an alternative numbering is used often enough for things to be potentially confusing. ─ ReconditeRodent « talk · contribs » 20:20, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
Information for other editors: based on current policy, the WP:DRN case has lead to the decision that there should be no ordinal numbering applied, unless there is consensus about a wiki-wide policy change on this issue. MrClog ( talk) 15:08, 17 March 2019 (UTC)