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Paul_012 (
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19:57, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
I have just removed the following text block from sea from the section on "tides". Maybe some of it could be useful for this article? Here it is:
Tidal flows of seawater are resisted by the water's inertia and can be affected by land masses. In places like the Gulf of Mexico where land constrains the movement of the bulges, only one set of tides may occur each day. Inshore from an island there may be a complex daily cycle with four high tides. The island straits at Chalkis on Euboea experience strong currents which abruptly switch direction, generally four times per day but up to 12 times per day when the moon and the sun are 90 degrees apart. [1] Where there is a funnel-shaped bay or estuary, the tidal range can be magnified. The Bay of Fundy is the classic example of this and can experience spring tides of 15 m (49 ft). Although tides are regular and predictable, the height of high tides can be lowered by offshore winds and raised by onshore winds. The high pressure at the centre of an anticyclones pushes down on the water and is associated with abnormally low tides while low-pressure areas may cause extremely high tides. [2]
In 1900, Galveston, Texas experienced a 15 ft (5 m) surge during a hurricane that overwhelmed the city, killing over 3,500 people and destroying 3,636 homes. [3] EMsmile ( talk) 09:12, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
References
oceanservice
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).In the section Lunar distance
causing tidal differences of inches at most.
is not supported by the reference.-- S Philbrick (Talk) 15:04, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please replace the outer pair of round brackets on the right-hand side of
with square brackets (as is already the case in the following line). The brackets on the left-hand side are meant to be functional - A, a function of t - the ones on the right-hand side algebraic - A, a constant, times one plus something - but the apparent symmetry makes it very tempting to misread the latter for the former here, IMO, and using square ones instead would make it less so. Thanks!
- 2A02:560:42CD:C900:9D0D:A434:8FE6:B166 ( talk) 21:14, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
Partly done: - We see functional and multiplicative brackets together all the time and it's not a big deal. I think the bigger cause of the confusion you've quite correctly identified is that "A" is carrying way too many meanings here. I've replaced the static amplitude of the first term with instead of A, and hopefully that helps distinguish between constants and functions. This section is still a bloody mess, however.
PianoDan (
talk)
22:05, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
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edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
I wanted to improve the format of the subscripts in subsection "Analysis" of section "Observation and prediction", namely change every occurence in the text of "A_o" and "A_o" with "Ao". Also, replace "A" with "A" at one point in the same subsection. Here are the full current and proposed versions:
Current
where
There is one term for the Moon and a second term for the Sun. The phase p of the first harmonic for the Moon term is called the lunitidal interval or high water interval.
The next refinement is to accommodate the harmonic terms due to the elliptical shape of the orbits. To do so, the value of the amplitude is taken to be not a constant, but varying with time, about the average amplitude A_o. To do so, replace A_o in the above equation with A(t) where A is another sinusoid, similar to the cycles and epicycles of Ptolemaic theory. This gives:
which is to say an average value A_o with a sinusoidal variation about it of magnitude Aa, with frequency ωa and phase pa. Substituting this for A_o in the original equation gives a product of two cosine factors:
Proposed
where
There is one term for the Moon and a second term for the Sun. The phase p of the first harmonic for the Moon term is called the lunitidal interval or high water interval.
The next refinement is to accommodate the harmonic terms due to the elliptical shape of the orbits. To do so, the value of the amplitude is taken to be not a constant, but varying with time, about the average amplitude Ao. To do so, replace Ao in the above equation with A(t) where A is another sinusoid, similar to the cycles and epicycles of Ptolemaic theory. This gives:
which is to say an average value Ao with a sinusoidal variation about it of magnitude Aa, with frequency ωa and phase pa. Substituting this for Ao in the original equation gives a product of two cosine factors: Pattedetable ( talk) 03:19, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
Has anyone considered that magnetism, rather than gravitation, might be the prevailing causation attributable to the tides lesson today? Geometrically, angular momentum exerted directly upon the Earth by the Moon occurs quite minimally during an ordinary orbital period; circulation within Earth atmosphere allows this force to continue ordinarily until the next magnetic moment between the two celestial bodies which, as we have learned travel at constant rates around the sun each orbital period uniformly.
Also, is there a Motion-Picture-Projects-Group within Wikimedia Fdtn who may wish to be added to this page's articles-of-interest list? People like Chris Nolan [this is professional outreach, not a "personal attack"] are allowed to publish "original work" on Wikipedia and promote themselves and their business; the integrity of our science and math on pages like this {Tides} is lacking relative to the PR biz. Ie. No one can consider representing me and/or any of my original work via a Wiki "sphere" in or outside of the U.S. Wikimagcarta ( talk) 15:00, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
Between extremes, there is change. So – call me thick – if a region has the first two, how can it not have all four of these stages? — Tamfang ( talk) 04:35, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
In a few places, the relative contributions from the Moon and the Sun to the tides are compared, saying that the Sun's is "much smaller" than the Moon's. A simple evaluation of the formula given there gives a ratio of tidal forces of roughly F_M : F_S = 2.2 : 1. This is not "much smaller" at any rate. This is particularly important as there are indeed effects that are "much smaller", for example the influence of Jupiter or even the explanations for the spring and neap tides across the seasons, equinoxes etc.
I therefore made a few edits replacing "much smaller" by "smaller" in the relevant places (simply searching for "much").
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Tide article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
Index,
1,
2Auto-archiving period: 365 days
![]() |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
This page has archives. Sections older than 365 days may be automatically archived by ClueBot III when more than 8 sections are present. |
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
Tied. The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 August 25#Tied until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
Paul_012 (
talk)
19:57, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
I have just removed the following text block from sea from the section on "tides". Maybe some of it could be useful for this article? Here it is:
Tidal flows of seawater are resisted by the water's inertia and can be affected by land masses. In places like the Gulf of Mexico where land constrains the movement of the bulges, only one set of tides may occur each day. Inshore from an island there may be a complex daily cycle with four high tides. The island straits at Chalkis on Euboea experience strong currents which abruptly switch direction, generally four times per day but up to 12 times per day when the moon and the sun are 90 degrees apart. [1] Where there is a funnel-shaped bay or estuary, the tidal range can be magnified. The Bay of Fundy is the classic example of this and can experience spring tides of 15 m (49 ft). Although tides are regular and predictable, the height of high tides can be lowered by offshore winds and raised by onshore winds. The high pressure at the centre of an anticyclones pushes down on the water and is associated with abnormally low tides while low-pressure areas may cause extremely high tides. [2]
In 1900, Galveston, Texas experienced a 15 ft (5 m) surge during a hurricane that overwhelmed the city, killing over 3,500 people and destroying 3,636 homes. [3] EMsmile ( talk) 09:12, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
References
oceanservice
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).In the section Lunar distance
causing tidal differences of inches at most.
is not supported by the reference.-- S Philbrick (Talk) 15:04, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please replace the outer pair of round brackets on the right-hand side of
with square brackets (as is already the case in the following line). The brackets on the left-hand side are meant to be functional - A, a function of t - the ones on the right-hand side algebraic - A, a constant, times one plus something - but the apparent symmetry makes it very tempting to misread the latter for the former here, IMO, and using square ones instead would make it less so. Thanks!
- 2A02:560:42CD:C900:9D0D:A434:8FE6:B166 ( talk) 21:14, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
Partly done: - We see functional and multiplicative brackets together all the time and it's not a big deal. I think the bigger cause of the confusion you've quite correctly identified is that "A" is carrying way too many meanings here. I've replaced the static amplitude of the first term with instead of A, and hopefully that helps distinguish between constants and functions. This section is still a bloody mess, however.
PianoDan (
talk)
22:05, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
I wanted to improve the format of the subscripts in subsection "Analysis" of section "Observation and prediction", namely change every occurence in the text of "A_o" and "A_o" with "Ao". Also, replace "A" with "A" at one point in the same subsection. Here are the full current and proposed versions:
Current
where
There is one term for the Moon and a second term for the Sun. The phase p of the first harmonic for the Moon term is called the lunitidal interval or high water interval.
The next refinement is to accommodate the harmonic terms due to the elliptical shape of the orbits. To do so, the value of the amplitude is taken to be not a constant, but varying with time, about the average amplitude A_o. To do so, replace A_o in the above equation with A(t) where A is another sinusoid, similar to the cycles and epicycles of Ptolemaic theory. This gives:
which is to say an average value A_o with a sinusoidal variation about it of magnitude Aa, with frequency ωa and phase pa. Substituting this for A_o in the original equation gives a product of two cosine factors:
Proposed
where
There is one term for the Moon and a second term for the Sun. The phase p of the first harmonic for the Moon term is called the lunitidal interval or high water interval.
The next refinement is to accommodate the harmonic terms due to the elliptical shape of the orbits. To do so, the value of the amplitude is taken to be not a constant, but varying with time, about the average amplitude Ao. To do so, replace Ao in the above equation with A(t) where A is another sinusoid, similar to the cycles and epicycles of Ptolemaic theory. This gives:
which is to say an average value Ao with a sinusoidal variation about it of magnitude Aa, with frequency ωa and phase pa. Substituting this for Ao in the original equation gives a product of two cosine factors: Pattedetable ( talk) 03:19, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
Has anyone considered that magnetism, rather than gravitation, might be the prevailing causation attributable to the tides lesson today? Geometrically, angular momentum exerted directly upon the Earth by the Moon occurs quite minimally during an ordinary orbital period; circulation within Earth atmosphere allows this force to continue ordinarily until the next magnetic moment between the two celestial bodies which, as we have learned travel at constant rates around the sun each orbital period uniformly.
Also, is there a Motion-Picture-Projects-Group within Wikimedia Fdtn who may wish to be added to this page's articles-of-interest list? People like Chris Nolan [this is professional outreach, not a "personal attack"] are allowed to publish "original work" on Wikipedia and promote themselves and their business; the integrity of our science and math on pages like this {Tides} is lacking relative to the PR biz. Ie. No one can consider representing me and/or any of my original work via a Wiki "sphere" in or outside of the U.S. Wikimagcarta ( talk) 15:00, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
Between extremes, there is change. So – call me thick – if a region has the first two, how can it not have all four of these stages? — Tamfang ( talk) 04:35, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
In a few places, the relative contributions from the Moon and the Sun to the tides are compared, saying that the Sun's is "much smaller" than the Moon's. A simple evaluation of the formula given there gives a ratio of tidal forces of roughly F_M : F_S = 2.2 : 1. This is not "much smaller" at any rate. This is particularly important as there are indeed effects that are "much smaller", for example the influence of Jupiter or even the explanations for the spring and neap tides across the seasons, equinoxes etc.
I therefore made a few edits replacing "much smaller" by "smaller" in the relevant places (simply searching for "much").