While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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Created a hopefully less egregious paraphrase of this network history on the temp page. Best of luck. Skybunny 19:36, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
The "KNDO" low-power transmitter K21DO of Indio/Palm Springs, Cal. is widely known to have Asian-language programming about 8 hours a day, while they can air Spanish-language and Russian-language shows from time to time. The other 8 hours consists of "SafeTV" or family-oriented cartoons or shows. K21DO is owned by a smaller church the Palm Springs Seventh-day Adventist Church and Loma Linda Broadcasting out of Loma Linda, California. The television station services want to expand Spanish translated 3ABNLatino programs for the area's large Hispanic population, a great porportion of Adventist church members there are now Latino and has gained a huge following among local Asian Americans. + 71.102.3.86 ( talk) 16:43, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
The link is not suitable for the article because it does not satisfy the reliable sources guideline. Are any of its contributors notable? If so, they may have published their criticisms, which would in turn be reliable. Ansell 06:49, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, but there is a wealth of news and information about 3ABN at that link. Thanks for your understanding. Sdalink 03:49, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
I removed the following:
His remarriage to Brandy Lynn Elswick, 33, on March 8, 2006, occurred on the set of 3ABN Presents in a non-broadcast ceremony. [1]
Because it holds no relevance to the network. This is more suited for the Danny Shelton artilce if it exists. -- Maniwar ( talk) 18:49, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
References
I would like to see the infobox changed to one similar to SafeTV's box (will show up on left):
![]() | |
Channels | |
---|---|
Branding | Safe TV Channel |
Programming | |
Affiliations | Worship/ America One |
Ownership | |
Owner | Total Life Community Educational Foundation |
History | |
Founded | August 8, 1993 |
PAX (until 2005) | |
Technical information | |
ERP | 182
kW (analog) 386 kW (digital) |
Links | |
Website | www.safetv.org |
additionally, I would like to see:
and any other pertinent information to improve this article. I have neither the time nor knowledge to add it. -- Maniwar ( talk) 14:09, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Maniwar, Have you seen http://www.atoday.com/email/2007/02/12/? It covers the Tommy Shelton allegations rather thoroughly, and given the fact that it is a journalistic source, it should be considered credible. 204.73.193.175 22:42, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
The first paragraph of the section "Publishing and Other Media" is grossly misleading and has other problems. For example, while it mentions music products (of which there are maybe a few dozen titles or so), it fails to mention video DVDs, which 3ABN carries in many thousands of titles (see 3ABN's video catalog). Second, it says 3ABN sells cassettes; 3ABN may sell a few per year from old inventory, but 3ABN no longer produces audio on cassette, and has not for quite a few years now. All new albums are on CD and/or DVD only. Third, the first sentence says "3ABN ministry produces albums, cassettes and CDs." This is a bit redundant, because the albums *are* CDs primarily. A better sentence would be "3ABN produces albums on CD, and some as digital downloads." Or maybe just "3ABN produces music albums," since the other rewrite may or may not be too much information for Wikipedia's purposes. Michael.prewitt ( talk) 14:46, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
I removed in full the criticism section which while tangentially involving 3ABN because Danny Shelton founded it, is primarly discussing this individual and claims and allegations around him. Danny Shelton is a living person. The Wikipedia policy on biographies of living persons WP:LIVING says the following: Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material — whether negative, positive, or just highly questionable — about living persons should be removed immediately and without discussion from Wikipedia articles, talk pages, user pages, and project space. When I arrived at this page, even the heading of the section itself stated poor sourcing. If it makes it easier to reach consensus, I might suggest stating Danny Shelton as the founder of this network, and leaving it at that.
Websites with a self stated agenda like save3abn.com, or a forum post to an open access forum are poor sources and should not be used as per Wikipedia. Please see WP:SOURCE#Sources: Articles should rely on reliable, third-party published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. Skybunny 23:58, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
I've been away for a few weeks. That said, I just wanted to make a reply here on a couple things...
I don't really have much more to add about the details of this controversy, honestly. It just didn't seem like by the living persons policy, it was appropriate. Apologies if this has caused waves. Skybunny 16:29, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
“The General Conference has suspended 3ABN’s [Three Angels Broadcasting Network] Supportive Ministry status until some well-known issues in more than one area are sorted out. Basically, a lot of smoke doesn’t necessarily presume a fire, but it definitely needs investigation and caution.”
The official source:
“There has been no change or review of the status of 3ABN as a supporting ministry by the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists.” [1]
[Genscher] 23:43, 03 August 2007 (CET+1)
References
As this article had become a mess with way too much detail, poorly structured with poor grammar and violating WP:NOT, WP:NOTDIRECTORY, WP:NOTCHANGELOG, WP:CRYSTAL and was tagged accordingly, I've emarked on a major cleanup. Many sections are still not cited though. As a result, I've removed a lot of what I believe is extraneous information. If you disagree, please don't revert the changes, rather please discuss what you think the issue is and why the info should be included here on the talk page. Thanks. Toddst1 ( talk) 15:25, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Three Angels Broadcasting Network/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Comment(s) | Press [show] to view → |
---|---|
I have removed this portion from 3ABN's Wiki page because it promotes a personal view of 3ABN form a former disgruntled employee perspective.
Since Linda Shelton is no longer associated in any form or capacity with 3ABN, mentioning her in connection with 3ABN is merely an attempt to sabotage and discredit 3ABN. This is a personal attack, loaded with a personal bias, and by referencing her own website, is clearly self promoting. This information cannot be considered factual nor credible and needs to be permanently removed. Below is what need to be removed. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Linda Shelton In 2004 Linda Shelton was suddenly removed from 3ABN, programming, the website, the board, and her CDs were pulled from the inventory. There quickly grew a cloud of speculation around the divorce of founders Danny and Linda Shelton. Over the past few years, rumours spread that Linda was unfaithful in her marriage to Danny, and as a result was removed from the ministry and divorced. Linda has started a website asserting that she was not the unfaithful one and is requesting proof be provided showing her guilt or that her name be cleared.[4][5] ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________ And these links...
|
Last edited at 08:33, 28 December 2011 (UTC). Substituted at 08:41, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
From the "About" page on the official website:
“ | We are a 501(c)3 nonprofit company, and are governed by a Board of Directors who work very hard behind the scenes to ensure we stay true to our mission. We are not owned or operated by any person or outside organization, and neither are we funded by any church or denomination, although many of our employees and volunteers are members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. | ” |
Yvonne, Linda, Danny Shelton--------------------
As a devout Seventh-day Adventist, and an avid Wikipedia user and editor, I feel slightly qualified to comment on this particular article.
The first paragraph was accurate and informative. I hadn't even realized the 3ABN is not tied formally to the Seventh-day Adventist Church. But after that, it was clear that the article had been heavily "redacted" to use the legal term. I would love to see the redacted portions!!
For example, in the first ?(!) years of 3ABN, Linda and Danny were inseparable on air, and Linda was especially prominent in the programming. The ? years is very telling, because I depend on and greatly appreciate Wikipedia articles to "fill me in" on organizations like 3ABN and individuals like Linda, Danny and Yvonne Shelton. But to not even offer the date of founding, not to mention the famous "miracle story" of the purchase of the transmitter, was almost insulting!
Then the lack of any mention of the Linda, Yvonne, Danny leading characters is frustrating. Can we go back to the archives and just re instate the last version before this major "clean up" per "Maniwar" and "Toddst1" (if I'm reading this right).
It is clear to me from what I know of the history of 3ABN, that the name of Linda Shelton cannot be removed from the history of the station. To say it was done because she is no longer affiliated with 3ABN and in the view of Toddst1 (sic) including her side of the story will "discredit" the organization is highly reductive and anti free speech. She's an essential part of the story and that cannot be "redacted"!!
Here is the telling detail. Someone (Toddst1?) claimed that the sources used are invalid. Not only Linda's story, but the references needing to be removed: "And these links...
Substituted at 08:41, 30 April 2016 (UTC)"
Now Adventist Today is one of the most respected and independent information sources within Adventism, so to delete it as a source is clearly a biased edit. Also to describe Linda Shelton, co founder of 3ABN, as a "disgruntled employee" is disingenuous. What needed to be done is to have a section on "Controversies surrounding 3ABN".
Wikipedia exists to serve as a wonderful, vast, user created source of much needed info. Its fresh, unbiased, honest platform details many organizations far smaller and less influential than 3ABN. Adventism is one of the more dynamic denominations in the USA and the world, and 3ABN is the more popular of its 2 very widely watched TV stations.
Meanwhile, the Adventist denomination, as much as I am committed to its mission and methods, does fall a little short in terms of transparency. Most of the sources of information are promotional rather than objectively informational. So this article failed me completely. Let's see if we can restore the article to the usual Wikipedia clarity and freedom of speech standards! Sources are going to be hard to come by, because, as I said, there are few credentialed sources within the church that would discuss this. Adventist Today would be a very credible source. If you, Maniwar (?), Skybunny (?), could send the former article to me, or even explain what is a "temp page" (not familiar with this term!) where an earlier, published history of 3ABN is located, perhaps I can use my Adventist contacts to find suitable references and sources. George Odell
— Preceding unsigned comment added by George Odell ( talk • contribs) 22:22, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Created a hopefully less egregious paraphrase of this network history on the temp page. Best of luck. Skybunny 19:36, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
The "KNDO" low-power transmitter K21DO of Indio/Palm Springs, Cal. is widely known to have Asian-language programming about 8 hours a day, while they can air Spanish-language and Russian-language shows from time to time. The other 8 hours consists of "SafeTV" or family-oriented cartoons or shows. K21DO is owned by a smaller church the Palm Springs Seventh-day Adventist Church and Loma Linda Broadcasting out of Loma Linda, California. The television station services want to expand Spanish translated 3ABNLatino programs for the area's large Hispanic population, a great porportion of Adventist church members there are now Latino and has gained a huge following among local Asian Americans. + 71.102.3.86 ( talk) 16:43, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
The link is not suitable for the article because it does not satisfy the reliable sources guideline. Are any of its contributors notable? If so, they may have published their criticisms, which would in turn be reliable. Ansell 06:49, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, but there is a wealth of news and information about 3ABN at that link. Thanks for your understanding. Sdalink 03:49, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
I removed the following:
His remarriage to Brandy Lynn Elswick, 33, on March 8, 2006, occurred on the set of 3ABN Presents in a non-broadcast ceremony. [1]
Because it holds no relevance to the network. This is more suited for the Danny Shelton artilce if it exists. -- Maniwar ( talk) 18:49, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
References
I would like to see the infobox changed to one similar to SafeTV's box (will show up on left):
![]() | |
Channels | |
---|---|
Branding | Safe TV Channel |
Programming | |
Affiliations | Worship/ America One |
Ownership | |
Owner | Total Life Community Educational Foundation |
History | |
Founded | August 8, 1993 |
PAX (until 2005) | |
Technical information | |
ERP | 182
kW (analog) 386 kW (digital) |
Links | |
Website | www.safetv.org |
additionally, I would like to see:
and any other pertinent information to improve this article. I have neither the time nor knowledge to add it. -- Maniwar ( talk) 14:09, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Maniwar, Have you seen http://www.atoday.com/email/2007/02/12/? It covers the Tommy Shelton allegations rather thoroughly, and given the fact that it is a journalistic source, it should be considered credible. 204.73.193.175 22:42, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
The first paragraph of the section "Publishing and Other Media" is grossly misleading and has other problems. For example, while it mentions music products (of which there are maybe a few dozen titles or so), it fails to mention video DVDs, which 3ABN carries in many thousands of titles (see 3ABN's video catalog). Second, it says 3ABN sells cassettes; 3ABN may sell a few per year from old inventory, but 3ABN no longer produces audio on cassette, and has not for quite a few years now. All new albums are on CD and/or DVD only. Third, the first sentence says "3ABN ministry produces albums, cassettes and CDs." This is a bit redundant, because the albums *are* CDs primarily. A better sentence would be "3ABN produces albums on CD, and some as digital downloads." Or maybe just "3ABN produces music albums," since the other rewrite may or may not be too much information for Wikipedia's purposes. Michael.prewitt ( talk) 14:46, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
I removed in full the criticism section which while tangentially involving 3ABN because Danny Shelton founded it, is primarly discussing this individual and claims and allegations around him. Danny Shelton is a living person. The Wikipedia policy on biographies of living persons WP:LIVING says the following: Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material — whether negative, positive, or just highly questionable — about living persons should be removed immediately and without discussion from Wikipedia articles, talk pages, user pages, and project space. When I arrived at this page, even the heading of the section itself stated poor sourcing. If it makes it easier to reach consensus, I might suggest stating Danny Shelton as the founder of this network, and leaving it at that.
Websites with a self stated agenda like save3abn.com, or a forum post to an open access forum are poor sources and should not be used as per Wikipedia. Please see WP:SOURCE#Sources: Articles should rely on reliable, third-party published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. Skybunny 23:58, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
I've been away for a few weeks. That said, I just wanted to make a reply here on a couple things...
I don't really have much more to add about the details of this controversy, honestly. It just didn't seem like by the living persons policy, it was appropriate. Apologies if this has caused waves. Skybunny 16:29, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
“The General Conference has suspended 3ABN’s [Three Angels Broadcasting Network] Supportive Ministry status until some well-known issues in more than one area are sorted out. Basically, a lot of smoke doesn’t necessarily presume a fire, but it definitely needs investigation and caution.”
The official source:
“There has been no change or review of the status of 3ABN as a supporting ministry by the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists.” [1]
[Genscher] 23:43, 03 August 2007 (CET+1)
References
As this article had become a mess with way too much detail, poorly structured with poor grammar and violating WP:NOT, WP:NOTDIRECTORY, WP:NOTCHANGELOG, WP:CRYSTAL and was tagged accordingly, I've emarked on a major cleanup. Many sections are still not cited though. As a result, I've removed a lot of what I believe is extraneous information. If you disagree, please don't revert the changes, rather please discuss what you think the issue is and why the info should be included here on the talk page. Thanks. Toddst1 ( talk) 15:25, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Three Angels Broadcasting Network/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Comment(s) | Press [show] to view → |
---|---|
I have removed this portion from 3ABN's Wiki page because it promotes a personal view of 3ABN form a former disgruntled employee perspective.
Since Linda Shelton is no longer associated in any form or capacity with 3ABN, mentioning her in connection with 3ABN is merely an attempt to sabotage and discredit 3ABN. This is a personal attack, loaded with a personal bias, and by referencing her own website, is clearly self promoting. This information cannot be considered factual nor credible and needs to be permanently removed. Below is what need to be removed. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Linda Shelton In 2004 Linda Shelton was suddenly removed from 3ABN, programming, the website, the board, and her CDs were pulled from the inventory. There quickly grew a cloud of speculation around the divorce of founders Danny and Linda Shelton. Over the past few years, rumours spread that Linda was unfaithful in her marriage to Danny, and as a result was removed from the ministry and divorced. Linda has started a website asserting that she was not the unfaithful one and is requesting proof be provided showing her guilt or that her name be cleared.[4][5] ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________ And these links...
|
Last edited at 08:33, 28 December 2011 (UTC). Substituted at 08:41, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
From the "About" page on the official website:
“ | We are a 501(c)3 nonprofit company, and are governed by a Board of Directors who work very hard behind the scenes to ensure we stay true to our mission. We are not owned or operated by any person or outside organization, and neither are we funded by any church or denomination, although many of our employees and volunteers are members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. | ” |
Yvonne, Linda, Danny Shelton--------------------
As a devout Seventh-day Adventist, and an avid Wikipedia user and editor, I feel slightly qualified to comment on this particular article.
The first paragraph was accurate and informative. I hadn't even realized the 3ABN is not tied formally to the Seventh-day Adventist Church. But after that, it was clear that the article had been heavily "redacted" to use the legal term. I would love to see the redacted portions!!
For example, in the first ?(!) years of 3ABN, Linda and Danny were inseparable on air, and Linda was especially prominent in the programming. The ? years is very telling, because I depend on and greatly appreciate Wikipedia articles to "fill me in" on organizations like 3ABN and individuals like Linda, Danny and Yvonne Shelton. But to not even offer the date of founding, not to mention the famous "miracle story" of the purchase of the transmitter, was almost insulting!
Then the lack of any mention of the Linda, Yvonne, Danny leading characters is frustrating. Can we go back to the archives and just re instate the last version before this major "clean up" per "Maniwar" and "Toddst1" (if I'm reading this right).
It is clear to me from what I know of the history of 3ABN, that the name of Linda Shelton cannot be removed from the history of the station. To say it was done because she is no longer affiliated with 3ABN and in the view of Toddst1 (sic) including her side of the story will "discredit" the organization is highly reductive and anti free speech. She's an essential part of the story and that cannot be "redacted"!!
Here is the telling detail. Someone (Toddst1?) claimed that the sources used are invalid. Not only Linda's story, but the references needing to be removed: "And these links...
Substituted at 08:41, 30 April 2016 (UTC)"
Now Adventist Today is one of the most respected and independent information sources within Adventism, so to delete it as a source is clearly a biased edit. Also to describe Linda Shelton, co founder of 3ABN, as a "disgruntled employee" is disingenuous. What needed to be done is to have a section on "Controversies surrounding 3ABN".
Wikipedia exists to serve as a wonderful, vast, user created source of much needed info. Its fresh, unbiased, honest platform details many organizations far smaller and less influential than 3ABN. Adventism is one of the more dynamic denominations in the USA and the world, and 3ABN is the more popular of its 2 very widely watched TV stations.
Meanwhile, the Adventist denomination, as much as I am committed to its mission and methods, does fall a little short in terms of transparency. Most of the sources of information are promotional rather than objectively informational. So this article failed me completely. Let's see if we can restore the article to the usual Wikipedia clarity and freedom of speech standards! Sources are going to be hard to come by, because, as I said, there are few credentialed sources within the church that would discuss this. Adventist Today would be a very credible source. If you, Maniwar (?), Skybunny (?), could send the former article to me, or even explain what is a "temp page" (not familiar with this term!) where an earlier, published history of 3ABN is located, perhaps I can use my Adventist contacts to find suitable references and sources. George Odell
— Preceding unsigned comment added by George Odell ( talk • contribs) 22:22, 1 December 2023 (UTC)